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Discussion on "beating a dead horse" (or in this case-pony)
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Monday, Oct 15, 2007 - 3:44 am:
I just don't know what to do. The little girl who is leasing my pony was tossed today at her first show. Her father is really upset (witnessed both this and the fall a few weeks ago), and although the little girl was upset initially, she continued to ride and had a fine day after. I am laying awake over this! Her mom said that as long as she wants to keep doing it, she will keep letting her. However, I feel so much stress when anything happens! Am I overreacting? What would you do? Would anyone pull out of the lease and just bring him home? I wish I could help him be a better pony, but I don't even know how to go about it! grrrrrrrr
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Member:
imogen
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Posted on Monday, Oct 15, 2007 - 3:04 pm:
Erm I think falling off at your first show is fairly normal... Did the pony actually do anything bold (naughty)?
Imogen
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Member:
cgby1
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Posted on Monday, Oct 15, 2007 - 3:19 pm:
Gwen, When you say she was tossed by the pony, I am not sure how he did it. Did he buck, stop or turn suddenly or rear? Did she come off on the first bounce or after several? Does he spook or do you think it's laziness that motivates him? These things help figure out the best way to stop his behavior. My mare bucked and she did it because of fear and needed desensitization but it sounds like he may not want to work. If she learns to see it coming and disengages his hindquarters before he really gets going, he will realize that he is not going to get away with bucking. Have her learn how to disengage his rear and practice it. If someone gives a cue like a fire drill, then she will learn to do it quickly and automatically as soon as he shows that he is thinking about it. She will become a better rider and more confident, if you take away the pony she will not.
Cynthia
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Monday, Oct 15, 2007 - 4:14 pm:
Thanks for responding guys. He does this pop up, then stop and DrOp thing and she has gone right over his shoulder both times. He has developed a bad rep over the past several months because he gets the kids off quite efficiently, and none of them have mastered the signs yet. The instructor has been making her more aware of the signs and she has really gotten to be a much better rider already. That is part of what bums me out. He can take these kids to the next level, but they all keep giving up and talking about how horrible he is instead. (Can you tell I take it quite personally.) I have thought of the disengaging technique, but I wonder how it will work with him when he uses the lack of forward motion to his advantage. He does not pull his tricks with higher level riders, so that is a tricky piece of the puzzle too.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, Oct 15, 2007 - 7:11 pm:
Gwen, your post makes me laugh! Our family had a Welsh pony that sounds like he had the same technique. He was wonderful to ride if you knew his tricks; otherwise, you were a goner. We loved him to death and got a lot of entertainment value out of him letting neighbors and unlucky cousins ride him. I hope this little girl doesn't give up on him. He will teach her a lot. If she and her parents are willing, can you work with her and show her what he does...what the warning signs are? Or, I guess her coach is working with her? If he dumps as easily as our pony did the rider won't get hurt; just wounded pride.
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 16, 2007 - 9:10 am:
Sara, I am glad you enjoyed my post. Most people that have or have had ponies have stories similar to mine. That is why I don't understand why my pony gets such a bad rap. At the barn where I am at, most of their horses are old and pretty quiet (however, even they are horses!). I am probably being too sensitive about it. If the lease doesn't work, I will bring him home. No biggie.
I KNOW he will teach this kid a ton. He is that pony who will either make you give up (BAD IDEA) or will bring you to the next level. The fact that at the show, she wiped her tears and insisted on getting right back on to trot him around the warm-up ring again is really big for this kid.
In response to your questions Imogen and Cynthia, he does not spook. He is amazingly quiet and brave. I have to say that when I heard he was going to a show after only being leased for a month, I had a bad vibe. We all know that they regress a bit when faced with a new situation.
Leasing horses is really strange. I love that I can keep him and my qh under my "thumb" so to speak, but the worry of making sure all is going well for lessee is stressful!
Thanks for listening to my ridiculous problems!
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Member:
dwinans
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 16, 2007 - 2:32 pm:
Whenever we have a pony at my barn who starts being naughty my trainer finds a small person (usually a strong young rider) who can get on and and do a "tune-up". That seems to get the pony back on track and usually needs to be done periodically.
Do they have anybody there that could do that?
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Member:
cgby1
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 16, 2007 - 3:45 pm:
Gwen, In this case she needs to keep him moving, does she know how to use a crop? Small children do not have enough leg strength, so a crop is the way to keep him going forward. Disengaging works better with forward movement, but he is doing a sudden stop. Many years ago I was dumped twice by a horse named Joker who did the same thing. The first time I suddenly found myself sitting on the ground under his nose. I managed to prevent him from doing it several more times but one day I was cantering him and felt him hit the brakes. I was riding bareback and tried to grab him around the neck, I can still remember it clearly. Your pony has definitely figured out how to get out of work! He is obviously a smart pony!
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 16, 2007 - 6:52 pm:
I love those little stinkers. I have one. He takes a very alert, firm, understanding, and gentle rider. The kids who learned to ride on him and really LEARNED never wanted to give him up for a larger horse. He is so wise and such a good teacher (in a snotty sort of way) and really has weeded the sheep from the goats in the years I have taught.
One student was an A-circuit hunter/jumper rider from Florida. He came to VT every summer and rode at the camp where I directed the horsemanship program. He absolutley loved Snickers the pony over his expensive Appendix QH in Florida . . . and I never saw Snickers look so good as when he was ridden by this young man. Even as a teen, the boy would ask to have the pony as his mount. Thankfully, the young man was slight of build, but his legs were long that last summer he rode at camp.
If my pony were a bigger fellow, he'd be my chosen favorite to ride. He really makes good riders out of horse-crazy kids.
If the parents, child, and instructor are willing to continue with your pony, Gwen, I'd let them use him as long as they treat him well.
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 16, 2007 - 6:55 pm:
Oh yes, he is smart. I had a conversation with the trainer today, who said that the woman who is leasing the pony was contemplating terminating the lease. Apparently, the father/husband "hates" the pony and says that next time she goes off, he will not allow her to ride him again. I actually have a call into the woman to say that I am thinking that I would like to call it a day... I think at this point, that the riding program offered at the farm is not one that suits him. There have been several decisions that have made me wonder if we were setting the pony up for failure, and taking him to a show after a month's worth of riding (with one fall already) is one of them. I think I am going to bring him home and enjoy him for the lovebug that he is.
Dawn, the problem with your great idea is that we have tried that numerous times. He truly knows who he can *&%# with and who he can't. We have even put a little girl on him who rides quite well, and he doesn' t miss a beat. The one higher level rider he did get off, was a college student who was galloping him in a field after three weeks off. Oh I just wish I fit him, because he is actually my dream horse-just little. 
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Member:
cgby1
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 16, 2007 - 7:21 pm:
Gwen, That's too bad, I hate to think that the child will be made to feel a failure. The trainer should not have let them take the pony to a show so soon. The father is being protective, which is understandable. If she were a boy, he would have a different attitude! What other problems have you had with them?
Cynthia
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 16, 2007 - 7:55 pm:
I don't think that the girl will feel like a failure. Everyone at the barn is convinced that he is a horrible pony (they suggested dressing him up as the devil for Halloween and want his show name to be "Fat Bastard"), so the little girl feels that it is the pony who is bad and not her riding skills. It is wierd that I am taking it personally. I know that his tricks are not because of me, but I am feeling bad for him that he gets this bad rap! I am tired of being his cheerleader, only to have him get himself into mischief again.
I love seeing his little face in the backyard, and my daughter will LOVE having "her pony" back at home again. Now I just have to reinforce all fences to at least slow down his escape process...
On a side note, how much can these guys hold? He is 12.2 and SOLID. I am 5'6" 130 pounds. How long/much can I safely ride him??
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 16, 2007 - 9:05 pm:
I hate to hear when parents blame the pony!!!
First, my pony Sweetheart (and that she is not - I like to call her Sweettart) is 12.2 and I'm 5'7" & 140lbs and I flat her on occasion for kicks (and she's 17), she doesn't seem to mind at all. Ponies are tough little buggers!
Second, Ponies are spunky little suckers and they all have their moments. Sweetheart has dumped many kids. It's funny when people lease a pony to show, alot of them are use to the school ponies that are pretty broke down and don't really have the energy to act up as most ponies do. So when they put their kid on a different pony the kid has to learn to ride and not be a passenger. I personally think thats the only way to learn. That's how my step daughter learned. She rode in a riding school and never fell of a horse or pony. We leased Sweetheart and off she went, plenty of times, until she learned how to ride! And guess what, we bought her! Too bad people don't realize thats part of riding. But so many want that push button pony for their kids, it's a shame because the kid is really missing out.
7 years later Sweetheart still dumps a kid here and there, you get her in the grass ring and don't keep her moving forward and she DrOps her shoulder and plants her head in the grass. But the trainer is great and teaches the kid how to ride so that doesn't happen again.
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 16, 2007 - 9:15 pm:
Amen, Melissa. It really is the instructor's attitude that will "make or break it" for the students. We had a grass ring, both at camp and at a barn I leased. If the riders didn't pay attention to the tip of the pony's ears or nose, then they would be pulled over his head or stopped in the ring. "Never let a horse have your shoulders," is a good lesson with a pony who loves to stop and eat. "Never let go of your reins," is another safety lesson. "Lock your elbows and keep your shoulders back behind your seat," is a lesson that everyone can learn from a pony or horse that dives for grass. "ONE REIN!!!" is a very good lesson for ponies that figure out that the rider isn't paying attention and who decide to pick their own direction.
All of these lessons are so valuable for a rider who wants to be a horseman/woman. Riding is not a passenger sport. Too bad the instructor doesn't employ a sense of humor and give the girl the confidence that she CAN keep that pony on track if she can figure him out.
My pony is now 26, but I still sit on him on occasion and trot him around or give him a little canter (bareback, of course, since my seat won't fit in the pony Wintec). I don't take him on trail rides, but have sometimes gotten on him in a lesson to demonstrate a point or to give him a tune up.
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 16, 2007 - 9:47 pm:
You guys are so right. This is a situation in which I wish I were instructing. The instructor really does not have interest in getting creative with his riders to make the pony successful. Oh well, that is why I called the thread "beating a dead horse". I am giving up on trying to make it work at this farm.
So, no hunter paces for me on him, huh? okay...
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Member:
amara
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 16, 2007 - 9:59 pm:
Gwen, I have a 20 yr old 12 hand pony.. now mind you, he is an old style Haflinger and weighs in around850-900# and it suits him well, but i can ride him pretty much as much as i want.. i'm a tad bit shorter and a few pounds heavier than you.. as long as he's fit he has no problem whatsoever...i usually ride him bareback because fitting saddle to him and me isnt the easiest thing!..he's not much of a jumper, so the only hunter paces we could do would be on the flat only, and he's a terrible swimmer.. he does good basic dressage tho, and is an awesome driving horse... the kids used to use him for vaulting too...
i've always been lucky with him cause he's NOT a stinker..used him all the time for lessons, and i basically let him do all the teaching...he'd pull a minor little stunt (like going to the center of the arena) and if the kid could figure out how to fix it than he'd try something a little bit worse later.. if the kid had trouble then he'd putter about on the rail again for a few weeks till the kid figured got a little better, than try it again... he only tried to buck with my best riders... and he never did dump any of them... his youngest rider was 6 months, his youngest student was 3 years, and i gave adult bareback lessons on him several times a week, and some of them were a lot bigger than me or you...
you might be surprised what the two of you can do together!!!
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 16, 2007 - 10:18 pm:
Melissa, my little man is in my profile pic. For a point of reference, the other horse in the picture is a 16.1 hand qh, who wears an 81" blanket. What do you think based on that?
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 16, 2007 - 11:04 pm:
Gwen, he looks about the size of my pony. I saved a pic of my two in my profile. Funny, mine is a Christmas pic too. My other one is 17.2. Sweetheart pushes Moose around a bit, this is the only time I ever got her to stand next to him without pinning her ears back and squealing.
I think you should be fine riding him. I feel like ponies are stronger than most horses!
BTW, why are all ponies fat?
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Member:
dtranch
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2007 - 8:11 am:
This is a long standing paradym in the equine world.
Ponies dump kids and kids learn to ride or quit. Who among us does not have a "pony" story or two.
Kids learn to ride because they "want" to and kids quit because they really didn't want to be involved in the horse world anyway ... usually Mom and Dad's idea.
I personally wouldn't be offended at this pony's bad reputation .. I would be proud of him and use him as often as possible to teach "serious" kids how to handle a horse as well as be a passenger. I think that is why God made them "short" and "spunky" .... yep, and usually fat.
Oh yea ... I want to meet the trainer who thinks he can fix this pony.
DT
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Member:
kthorse
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2007 - 8:32 am:
I am with Dennis, I got dumped so many times as a kid, sometimes everyday. Did that stop me, no way. All I wanted to do was ride. Those horses were my best teachers.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2007 - 10:13 am:
Ok folks, I have pony stories and crazy OTTB stories like everyone else. And I have a daughter who has taken falls and got back on.
All that being said, I'm uncomfortable with our perspective here. Maybe I'm missing the part where you said to the parents and child: this pony is a stinker and has training problems. The good news is that he can teach you a lot, and the bad news is that he has TRAINING PROBLEMS and will stop, DrOp and roll his young rider from time to time.
The missing link for me is that you have decided not to fix your pony's problems, for whatever reason, and you seem to expect that decision to be fine for the people who are paying to use him. Maybe yes, maybe no, but I don't think we should judge them for their discomfort.
On other threads, we talk about auction proofing our young horses, and putting respect and manners in our full-sized horses. So while I AGREE THAT YOU DO NOT LEARN TO RIDE W/O LEARNING TO GET BACK ON, I also think we have a double standard going on this thread.
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Member:
kthorse
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2007 - 10:36 am:
I guess I grew up in a different generation or maybe its us crazy Aussies. My pony bucked reared took off did everything wrong. Back then there was no such thing as trainers. Only breakers who broke young horses. All my friends not one had instruction other than pony club on occasion. Now days its rare someone learns to ride without a trainer or instructor. Maybe lawsuits. I would not change the way I learnt to ride for anything. I think a trainer or instructor would have ruined my fun of teaching my horse that all her behaviors were wrong. She did stop as I grew older an I became a better rider. I am not the only one all my friends learned to ride and train their own horses through trial and error. The horse is the best teacher.
I just have a different perspective I guess than Elizabeth. Grew up with different ideas. My pony was with us for life.
This however does not apply to the above situation when leasing a horse. I would or should think it should be the child's decision. she knows if the horse scares her or not. Let her choose.
PS Once the child learns to ride this pony it will no longer be disrespectful of her. Thats the whole point.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2007 - 11:56 am:
I just think we need to consider the paying customers as well as the pony.
I agree that real horsemanship often starts sitting in the dirt.
But this isn't a family pony-- it's a lease, and I'm uncomfortable with us being judgmental of folks who are disappointed in what they are paying for, unless that was fully disclosed from the start.
Amateur owners and riders are the lifeblood of the horse business, and they aren't all going to learn and take their lumps and become all-around riders. And we don't have enough information to judge them as soft or wimpy or under-committed.
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2007 - 12:38 pm:
Both points well taken, Elizabeth and katrina. When dealing with paying customers, maybe the old adage "the customer is always right," is a wise way to operate, especially when dealing with the lease of an animal that imposes a lot of liability on the owner of that animal.
In response to you, Elizabeth, in your questions about why the pony hasn't been trained NOT to dump his riders or be a little son-of-a-gun . . . I don't see how we can train a horse NOT to do something when he is handled by many different people. By that I mean, unless the people are trained to work consistently and confidently and wisely around such a smart pony, the pony (or horse) will always be testing the boundaries. Often, in the course of lessons, when I see inconsistency or see the horse starting to test the boundaries with his student handler/rider, I tell the student that it is his/her job to actually help keep the pony/horse trained, and that is why it is so important for the student to be alert to help the horse to "stay good." Often I'll say (in a humorous tone, "Oh, no! Don't ruin my pony!! You have to help him stay good!) Pointing out the signs of a horse beginning to "think of going right" or "take his attention outside the arena" will help the student to "stay on top of things" (in this case, the pony).
Often I will tell a student, "Shorten your right rein; your pony is thinking of coming into the center of the ring." If the student doesn't respond in time, and the pony takes advantage, it is a great lesson for the riders to pay attention. These are "student drivers," and they have to learn about all the controls on the machine they are driving such as, watch the directional tip of the ears, the turn of the head, the corner of the eyes, the hesitation in going forward, the pull on the reins.
I really have only had one lesson horse that was almost totally "dum-de-dum" and rarely thought of taking advantage of his rider, but even he, after three weeks of summer camp, would head to center of the ring for dismount, just before the camp bell would ring to signal the end of each session. I was always glad to see him take initiative because it "woke up" the students and helped the students realize that there was more to riding than just watching the scenery go by outside the ring. The students who only rode that wonderful old horse were at a disadvantage when placed on any of the other horses in the camp string. On the other hand, the students who mastered the pony had a BLAST on the old fellow, and he always showed more spring in his step when he had a more aware rider on top.
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2007 - 12:54 pm:
Elizabeth, the purpose for me leasing this pony out is to allow him some additional attention and for him to be able to use his talents. I am not interested in gaining financially. I only have them pay for his board. I pay the vet bills and farrier bills. Upon arrival to the current farm, I explained his "antics" and the instructor tried to use him in lessons. It was when she put a beginner on him to teach the child to canter, that he began twisting his head to show his displeasure. She put a more capable rider on him, and had this rider attempt to jump a course with him. THat is when he tossed her. She discontinued using him in her program. Since that point, he has intermittently been available for lease to any student desiring. A few have tried him, and loved him. Some have not like him and been afraid of him. One other leased him for a month. This pony's antics are one of the most tallked about topics at this farm. The family who currently leases him, has been involved in almost every conversation concerning the pony, because apparently people love to share their "knowledge" and opinions about the situation. The family has been aware of any and all pertinent information about my pony. I did not call them soft or wimpy or undercommitted.
This pony will never go to an auction. Many people have told me to sell him (actually "get rid of him" is the more accurate term), and I will not do that. Mainly because of the unbelievable amounts (in my opinion) of negative feedback on this pony I have received. I have learned a very hard lesson about how quick people are to discard horses for "typical" horse behaviors that may be inconvenient or challenging. I guess that is the point you may be missing Elizabeth. The common theme I am hearing in this thread, is the concern with how quick people have been to point blame on something, rather than reflecting on a possible better way to make things work. These people are paying for a cute, healthy pony who knows his stuff. I have never, nor do I ever intend to mislead anyone. I have no motive for that.
Thanks everyone for your feedback. Dennis, I was actually hoping you would "fix" him. heehee
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2007 - 12:54 pm:
Hi Holly,
Agree absolutely they aren't machines. Informed consent and full disclosure are my points here. Once you have a paying customer, it's a business. Not everyone can be cool rough riders with their own herd of naughty equids, and these customers should be commended for leasing instead of buying if they are so inexperienced.
But I have also met a lot of spoiled horses that could use less defending and more mannering! Obviously I don't know this pony, so I have no idea whether that's a factor here.
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2007 - 1:03 pm:
He needs the limits enforced. That is the point. He tests the limits, and because the students are not showing him boundaries, he continues to "win".
As I mentioned, every pertinent piece of information has been disclosed. I have no motive for handling this otherwise.
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Member:
boomer
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2007 - 1:11 pm:
Ponies are definitely more difficult, I've got a POA who is a snot. I've tried everything and have put literally thousands of dollars in training but the same behavior!!
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Member:
dtranch
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2007 - 3:58 pm:
Elizabeth .. I agree that the pony should be trained, but it sounds like he is. When an experienced rider is on board, problems are gone .. if I am reading this right.
In my experience, most horses test all new riders to establish the boundaries. The new rider should be advised as to the situation , which I understand was also done in this case.
My point was that ponies are notoriously ornery .. so nice that they are short. The fall is not so bad. Kids can learn a whole lot about being a rider and a horseman from a pony like this if they want to. If they only want to be passengers and win ribbons, then it probably won't happen.
I am a trainer ... please don't ever tell someone not to train their horse .. I'd be out of business. But also remember, it is not always the horse's fault. In this case, the instructor needs to work with the student as well as the horse, not just throw it away and get another one. What are we teaching them then?
DT
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2007 - 4:29 pm:
Soooooo,
This has turned from a "recovery" back to a "rescue" mission. I spoke to the lessee and the little girl really wants to continue to try to work with the pony.
Please let the suggestions roll in. I had a pretty candid conversation about the current training situation, and how we probably should get a bit more aggressive in terms of getting this kid to ride him through his tricks.
So what strategy should we begin with?
Do we try the one-rein stop?
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2007 - 4:38 pm:
Hmmm . . . I don't think I would ask him to stop since he needs to keep moving forward. I would just have the girl do patterns and things on the flat and teach her to recognize his "pre-dumping" behavior. If she gives him a curt "ach, ach!" and womps him one to keep him going, it will probably surprise the heck out of the pony and he'll find himself moving forward and completely forgetting about dumping her. Her focus needs to be "FORWARD," and if she notices ANY lack of attention on his part or see's him look back at her with his eyes or put his ears back oor try to put pressure down on the bit, then she needs to catch it quickly and keep him moving with a strong forward cue (in this case, maybe a good bit of calf squeezing or popping him with heel . . . even moving into a small circle and then out on the pattern or track again will help teach this little whipper-snapper that he can't get away with "stuff" with this little rider.
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2007 - 4:39 pm:
Well said Dennis.
Elizabeth, Let me say...my pony in particular is 100% trained, point an shoot, plops around a course without a second thought, never spooks, she's done it all. We've done everything right with her, BUT, she will dump your kids butt on the ground if she thinks she can. And if they get back on and listen to my trainer, it won't happen again.
I didn't ride as a kid I started at 29. I rode school horses mostly until I bought my horse. My horse is the kindest soul alive, but he pulled out of more jumps and got me on my butt more times than I can count. Once breaking my arm, wrist and ankle in one shot and I was in a wheel chair for 3 months! Well, let me tell you I got out of my arm cast and in my walking boot and got on that damn horse with no stirrups on my saddle (couldn't use my ankle yet) and learned how to never make that happen again! I really learned how to be a rider. It's hurts alot more at 31 and off a 17.2 horse, so if these kids want it, they will learn.
That pony doesn't sound like he's doing anything out of the ordinary. Animals are just humans, we just test people in different ways!
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Member:
dtranch
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2007 - 4:52 pm:
100's of one rein stops. It is the first thing I teach all students and horses. They are not ready to ride until they master this, and it is a first response without thinking. Make sure they are releasing the rear completely before coming to a stop by bumping with the inside leg.
This is the emergency brake to use whenever the horse gets rattled, the rider gets rattled, or whenever either of them need to regroup. This will avoid many emergencies.
DT
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2007 - 4:57 pm:
In reading the last several posts and putting myself in Elizabeth's shoes, I just want to say that I understand what you were trying to say about liability and catering to the paying customer, Elizabeth. I don't disagree at all, but I know I would FEEL as if the parents are keeping their daughter from moving forward in her horsemanship if that's what she wanted to do.
I think the last few posts are more about whether or not the pony is trained . . . and shouldn't be seen as disagreements with Elizabeth but more about how to train the girl to be a good horsewoman. If the parents who are footing the bill and who obviously care about their daughter's physical safety are uncomfortable with this choice of a mount, then they should be allowed to switch. I think they might find that any horse or pony will exhibit certain avoidance behaviors and that unless their daughter learns to recognize them and nip them in the bud, she will always be in more danger than someone who can "handle" the horse.
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2007 - 5:00 pm:
Agree that the one-rein stop is key to keeping oneself and one's horse safe in many situtaions, and is always one of the first things I teach, but I thought you were talking about whether or not the girl should do a one-rein stop everytime the pony wants to stop and dump her, and I really think that she should work on keeping him forward since it seems that stopping is more what he already wants to do.
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2007 - 5:20 pm:
Thanks for the tips thus far. I will pass the information on and keep everyone (who is interested of course) updated. Fingers crossed...
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2007 - 8:04 pm:
The lessee just called me with an idea. Someone mentioned using I think she called a "reinstop". It is something that goes from the bit over the poll to the saddle, and keeps naughty little ponies from doing what they do best-DrOpping their front ends to pop the kids off. (Funny that it is such a common thing that they made something to counteract it.) Anyway, does anyone know anything about these contraptions? My initial concern is-is that going to make him pop UP? That can be part of his repertoire-popping up first, then DrOpping the front end.
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 17, 2007 - 8:46 pm:
I know it as a "check rein," Gwen, and it is normally used on driving horses since there isn't a rider who can give a "keep your head up" cue with an upward rein. I have seen it used on ponies before. If your pony can be ridden without it, then the child should learn how to do that in her riding. If she isn't strong enough to control the pony, then it will be a temporary solution, but it isn't THE solution. I would have the instructor ride with the check rein first to make sure the pony isn't going to pop up when he encounters it.
It could be that the instructor isn't the most perceptive person and is feeling at a loss of what to do to help the student. Many instructors/trainers/riders resort to artificial aids when they want a "quick fix" and/or don't know how to ride with only natural aids.
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 18, 2007 - 6:43 am:
You are right, good point. As I am reading too, I am thinking that a pony whitty as this will just find another "tool".
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Member:
imogen
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 18, 2007 - 8:39 am:
A less drastic solution might be "grass reins". Use baler twine and tie the bit to the girth loosely on both sides. This has no interference with normal riding, prevents the pony putting its head right down, and will break in nasty situations whereas leather reins won't. Instructor to check first.
There's a great trailer clip on TV here at the moment from a series where showjumper Jessica Kurten helps disadvantaged city centre Dublin kids to learn to ride in 6 weeks well enough to appear at the Dublin Horse Show.
Child falls off and winges. Jessica kneels down beside her. "Do you want to be a showjumper?" Kid whimpers unintelligibly. Jessica: "Well, get up on that pony, and jump that jump." Kid gets up and does it.
What a life lesson!
Imogen
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Member:
cgby1
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 18, 2007 - 3:21 pm:
Gwen, The check rein has been used on childrens ponys for many, many years. It is attached above the reins on the bit, then goes through rings attached at the browband and then to the pommel of the saddle. It is long enough to allow normal head carriage but not long enough for the pony to pull the child over its head. In the old days ( read Black Beauty) it was used on driving horses to force a very high head carriage. It can be good for very small young riders, who do not have the strength to stop a naughty pony from DrOpping it's head and who would be afraid to ride if they get thrown. My oldest son, who was 6 yrs old at the time had a shetland pony who was 11 hds tall. I got him the pony partly because my son was afraid of heights from the time he was an infant. Shadow was being neglected, he lived in a 12'X 24' stall and the owner took him out about once every three months. One day I was leading him in an arena and my mare got loose so I left him thinking he would be okay for a couple minutes. When I looked back Shadow had taken off at a full gallop straight for the gate. I thought he was going to be launched when the pony stopped at the gate but he had a death grip on the horn and managed to stay on. Even though I cheered and congratulated him for staying on, he took awhile to get over his fear. He was never thrown, though one time he ended up on the side of the ponys neck and had to let go. Shadow also tried to buck him off (another time) but did not succeed. My son became a good rider, he recently spent a day learning to joist and wants to get a draft cross. The point is that it gives the child time to learn balance and other skills before taking on a ponys naughtiness. I am glad that this little girl wants to continue and she needs to keep the pony moving forward. If she doesn't have the leg strength, then she can be taught how to properly use a crop. I don't agree that falling is necessary to learn to ride well. Most of us learn how to drive a car well without crashing and the possibility of injury or death is always there. I have come off several times with only bruises but my husband ended up in the hospital with a broken collar bone and several broken ribs. It was a long time and a lot of training before he got back on that horse again!
Cynthia
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Friday, Oct 19, 2007 - 6:32 am:
Thanks girls.
Imogen, great story.
Cynthia, thanks for your input. Of course, I agree that a child does not have to eat dirt in order to become a better rider. And I am not/have not condemned this family for questioning their desire to continue with the lease of my pony. I am just the type of person that has a really hard time "giving up" when adversity strikes. I can not lay my head on a pillow until I exhaust any options possible. Hence the bazillion posts about my adorable, sweet, loveable-but physically very limited quarter horse... That was where my frustration lied. Where this little community (farm) was willing to "give up" on my little guy before trying to work it through a bit.
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