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  Discussion on Yearling attacks dogs!
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Member:
Green007

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 12, 2004 - 10:04 am:

I have a yearling that is very sweet around people, handling very well on the lead and in the barn. However, he attacks any dog that comes out in the field. He pins his ears, chases dogs and tries to trample them with his front legs. This is not playful, he is quite serious!

I have never seen him do this with people (or children thank God!) but don't want him to attack dogs, either. Especially if I ever take him foxunting someday!

Does anyone have any system that works? We have tried scolding, coming after him with a whip, etc when he does it, but he does it anyway.

Any advice would be great!
Member:
Goolsby

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 12, 2004 - 10:51 am:

Debbie
My older mares and my 2 yearling colts will go after dogs and cats in the field and around the barn. We have always taken dogs along on the trail and the mares do not do this under saddle. I scold sometimes, but mostly just hope the critters are smart and fast enough to get away.
Colleen
Member:
Christos

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 12, 2004 - 3:12 pm:

Debbie,
If he has not actually hurt any dogs or other animals, I believe it is rather playing agressive than actually meaning it.
I have not seen this attitude carried under saddle, ie a horse that will pull on the reins to chase a dog or other animal. There are horses that will occasionally trample over a dog during hunting and rarely a horse that will kick the odd dog, but I do not think such attitude is connected to what you see.
I have, for instance, an absolutely fearless 6mo colt who will chase anything that moves, including dogs, sheep, pigs, cars, motorcycles and trains. However, whenever he does get his victim scared or tired enough to stop, he'll simply investigate it, may be sniff and lick it a bit and move on...

Christos


Member:
Green007

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 12, 2004 - 3:32 pm:

Not my guy - he pounds them with his front feet, with a mission to destroy! It has taught my dog to have a healthy respect for horses, which isn't all bad. I just worry about other peoples dogs. He got one of the boarders dogs yesterday and she wasn't very pleased.

Member:
Goolsby

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 12, 2004 - 3:58 pm:

I know what you mean Debbie. There are times that mine are out for blood. I had one dog trampled pretty bad before she got thru the fence. But Ive never seen this attitude under saddle or haltered and tied. how does he act around the dogs when he is haltered?
Colleen
Member:
Green007

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 12, 2004 - 4:06 pm:

He's fine when haltered and tied. He sniffs noses with the dogs and doesn't even pin his ears. I think he has an insecurity complex since he is the lowest man on the totem pole in a group of 4 bossy horses. I think he picks on the dogs just to have someone to pick on.
Member:
Goolsby

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 12, 2004 - 4:23 pm:

Of my four the low man is the one that isnt as agressive toward the cats and dogs.
Colleen
Member:
Green007

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 12, 2004 - 4:30 pm:

I suppose I should be thankful he doesn't pick on people!
Member:
Annes

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 12, 2004 - 4:34 pm:

I have the same situation with one of my geldings but mostly it only happens at feeding time. The other three horses do not pay any attention to the dogs. He is not the low horse in the pecking order - he is second, and he is also fine under saddle or tied. I have six dogs and he only cares about running one of them. I don't like the behavior but by now the dog knows to keep a lot of distance between himself and this one horse. He did trample a dog I had years ago but luckily he was not seriously hurt.
Member:
Redmare

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 12, 2004 - 4:35 pm:

Hi Debbie-

Chasing predatory animals away from the herd is a prey animal's natural response. Dogs should not be loose around the horses; this is a serious liability. What if a horse fell and was injured as a result of the dog activity? Most barns don't allow this.
Member:
Green007

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 12, 2004 - 4:52 pm:

For the most part, the dogs are just minding their own business when he runs after them. They aren't instigating anything. The boarders take turns picking all of the manure out of the pastures every day, and the dogs like to "help out" by keeping us company and that is when they are attacked.

I agree that it is the dog owners risk to bring a dog into a field rather than tying it up, however I personally love having my dog around when I pick the fields, and our barn is very "dog friendly."

I just wish I could get the yearling to stop!
Member:
Liliana

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 12, 2004 - 5:18 pm:

Hi Debbie,

Same here I love my dogs, top horse chases them and tdogs play "I'm gonna hunt you down" and eventually run away.

Lower mare would actually tremble and pee when she saw the dogs, but just like in the herd, I have found that each find their place.

What worked with the nervous mare was calming the dog so he would not make a pip at the wrong time, and kinda introduce them, you know as you would another dog in the park.

Dogs normally learn faster to keep away from horses when they get their firs kick. Archie my Alsatian got kicked by my shire, and he never went near them again

Love your horses and have fun
Liliana
Member:
Christos

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 12, 2004 - 5:56 pm:

Debbie,
What is the smallest enclosed area available where you can reproduce this behaviour of his?
Will he do it in a round pen?
Member:
Green007

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 - 9:34 am:

We don't have a round pen, though one of the turnout paddocks is a bit smaller than the others - by no stretch as small as a round pen. What we have been doing is keeping the dog close and carrying a whip. I imagine he would do it anywhere that he is not tied, though.
Member:
Cowgrl

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 - 11:56 am:

I had an appy filly that also attacked any dog that entered her paddock. I think this behavior started because she was chased by a neighbor's dog when she was only two weeks old or so. Luckily I saw the incident and was able to get the dog out of there before he took her down. It was definitely out to get her. That dog tried it again a few weeks later and almost got shot for his trouble. Since then though she will chase any dog that happens into her area. Doesn't do it under saddle and got along well with my dogs out on trail.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 - 12:37 pm:

There are a couple of things you can try, Debbie. I haven't dealt with the problem myself, however, so I can't tell you how these would actually work:
Try walking or jogging with the dog on a lead when he's free in the paddock. Let him follow if he wants, trying to keep your cool if he runs to you. If he ever becomes playful with his front legs, hit him hard on the cannon bone with a stiff, long whip. Don't forget to praise him for being a good boy, ie following quietly.
Another way is to let him chase the dog, and, after the dog escapes, keep him running around in a brisk canter until he regrets it. Be extra careful, as he's very young to accomodate too much exercise. Two-three laps more than he'd like should do the trick.
You can also try somebody leading the dog in front of you while you lead the horse close behind. Again, hit him on the cannon bone if he attempts to play with his front legs, praise whenever he's a good boy.
Keep in mind that he's a baby. His attention span is very narrow and he needs time to "digest" things. You get the best results when you make the lessons as short as possible and you do not repeat them more than two-three times a week.

Best of luck,
Christos


Member:
Jillmike

Posted on Sunday, Oct 17, 2004 - 11:54 pm:

For the dogs' sake keep them close until you have him not chasing them. A few years ago one of our fillies kicked my weimaraner and broke her shoulder. The dog never chased horses and was just on her way back to the house when the 2 yo filly decided it would be fun to kick at the dog. The vet said we were lucky that Stormy didn't have shoes on or we probably would have lost Blue. Still the $1800 vet bill and having to coop up a very active dog for 12 weeks wasn't very fun.
Member:
Green007

Posted on Monday, Oct 18, 2004 - 9:19 am:

Well we certainly wouldn't want anything bad to happen to our Scout Dog! 80 pounds of beautiful English yellow lab, only 11 months old and currenly in training for field competition. Most importanly he is a wonderful family member who plays with the kids. The good news is, we do have pet insurance on him in case anything does happen. We never want to be in a position of deciding whether a vet service is within our budget!

For now, I have been keeping him closely (it has been good for the dog - he gets to work on "heal" overtime) and I carry a crop with me as I pick the field If the yearling comes anywhere near us I scold and chase him away. He is only allowed in our "space" by invitation only, and NEVER when we are picking the field. Halter and sweet talk means "come on over" and wheelbarrow and dog means "stay away!" It seems to be working so far, though I do have to warn the other boarders to carry a big stick or tie their dogs when going into the field.
Member:
Lisamg

Posted on Monday, Oct 18, 2004 - 5:46 pm:

Debbie;

It has been my experience, like others have previously posted, that your horse is NOT playing with your dog. He is protecting the herd. If you allow your dog to be in the pasture where your horse is loose your dog is in definite danger of being hurt or killed. If I were you I would discontinue allowing your dog access to the horse pastures or pens when this horse is loose.

Not all horses do this. I have a Saddlebred/Arab gelding who does this. We did not know about it though, and one day my 80 lb. chocolate lab was in the pen (with us) while we were paste worming the horses. She loves to play in the mud by the water trough. Anyway, this gelding picked her up by the skin on her back and shook her like a rag doll. He was about to stomp her to death when we intervened. Luckly our dog was not seriously hurt. This horse pays no mind to the dogs when under saddle or on a lead. That is because "we" are in charge then. When he is in his field, in his mind "he" is in charge of his well being and safety. This horse is 2nd from bottom in the pecking order (out of 6), but I really don't think this makes a difference. This horse is also NON agressive in all other matters and a real sweatheart to work with. I just think some horses instincts are stronger than others. Because they do this doesn't make them "bad" or disobedient.

My miniature donkey also does this, and always has. I have heard that this is a common (and desirable to sheep herders) trait in mini donkeys. Although he is much less of a threat to the dogs than my gelding, he could still do some damage and has cornered a couple of our dogs on occasion.

Please don't worry about how much you will miss your dog for the short time you are cleaning pens/pastures .... keep him safe and tie him up when you are in with the horses. You will probably never cure your horse of this, so knowing how he is, it's up to you to take the appropriate precautions.

Good Luck!

Lisa
Member:
Warwick

Posted on Monday, Oct 18, 2004 - 6:00 pm:

Only one of my horses is non-threatening around loose dogs. The rest will seriously attack with teeth and feet. Definitely not playing! In the barn or under saddle they are all fine but if a dog gets in their fields when they are loose, it's a target.

Totally different story with cats though - for some reason they get left alone.
Member:
Gillb

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 19, 2004 - 10:41 am:

All the times my dogs have been attacked by horses they have meant business, it is definitely not play. This happens to one of my dogs in particular; she is an Australian Cattle Dog, with a very strong herding instinct! She seems to be a target whether or not she has pre-empted anything, they probably know her intentions by her body language. My other two small terriers are usually left alone; although there have been occasions when my Jack Russell has been almost stamped on. I'd be inclined to keep the dogs away from these individual horses.

My ACD has been double barrelled across the yard and kicked; it is only due to her extreme agility and luck that she hasn't been kicked in the head, or she may not be here today!

The only solution is to keep her away from the horses or only let her near those who are not out to destroy her.
Member:
Green007

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 19, 2004 - 10:48 am:

Thanks everyone for all of your comments and advice. I have been riding and training horses for 25 years and oddly enough, have never run into this before. I will certainly be careful with my dog around this guy.

Thanks again! This is the best site out there.
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