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Discussion on Making horse crooked?
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Member:
Canderso
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 24, 2004 - 6:52 pm:
Do riders make their horses crooked, and how long does it take to cause a change?
My relatively green four year old (only 6 months under saddle) clearly favours his left diagonal (better at the trot to the left, better at the canter to the right), but is quite open to having his position 'adjusted' by the rider.
While I realize that horses, like people, tend to be "left or right-handed", I am curious to hear what people think - how long does it take to cause your horse to prefer a direction... and if you take the steps to correct, how long should it take before you start to see the results?
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Member:
Jerre
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Posted on Thursday, Nov 25, 2004 - 11:26 am:
Hi, this is a little off-topic, but I've been trying to sort out my horse's preference for left lead canter. Are you saying that trotting to the right and cantering left use the same diagonal? So to strengthen right lead canter we should trot left?
(Picture me trotting and cantering around my living room trying to figure this out!)
Jerre
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Member:
Canderso
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Posted on Friday, Nov 26, 2004 - 9:07 am:
Hi Jerre,
Here is my analysis, and if I am wrong, please someone step in and correct me!!! (where are all you knowledgeable members when you are needed!!!)
(luckily I work from home so only my dogs think I am nuts prancing around my office)...
I think the trot/bending preference and the canter preference are two symptoms of the same issue – lack of longitudinal flexibility on one side, and lack of stepping under with one hind.
Here’s why:
On a LEFT lead trot, you are, in essence, stretching the right side of the horse and influencing the right diagonal (which includes asking the left hind to step under). So if this rein works well, then you have a horse that is longitudinally flexible on the right side and that steps under on the left hind.
At the canter.
With the right lead canter, the order of hoofbeats is left hind (beat 1), right hind and left fore together (beat 2), and then right fore (beat 3). In this gait, the weight is solely carried on the left hind and right fore, and shared on the right hind and left fore.
Again that this is stretching the right side of the horse, and “working” the right diagonal (and asking the left hind to step under)
So in your case (favours right lead trot/left lead canter), you would need to work on getting him to stretch his right side, and step under with his right hind.
Will trotting to the left help? Yes, provided you really concentrate on him bending to the left through his entire body (not just at the neck), and definitely not let his haunches stray to the right.
But I am sure there are many better things to do to also encourage the stepping under of his left hind.
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Member:
Jerre
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Posted on Friday, Nov 26, 2004 - 11:14 am:
Cheryl, this makes sense to me (still trotting and cantering around my house!) And I think it answers your question also -- clearly we can help our horses get straigher (or, alas, more crooked).
The time frame surely depends on the degree of crookedness, how correct we are when riding, how often we ride, etc.
I'm going to analyze your post today while I ride. It was very helpful.
Thanks,
Jerre
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Friday, Nov 26, 2004 - 1:16 pm:
Hi, Cheryl,
Your horse prefers to keep his body bent to the left. He is, naturally, hollow on the left side and stiff on the right.
In trot or canter, he will prefer to turn to the left, if given the choice.
He prefers the right canter lead, as you have already noticed, because being naturally crooked to the left unloads his right shoulder.
You will have already noticed that he prefers the right lead even when he turns left. Many people call this counter canter, but it is not. It is "popping" the shoulder, careening into the turn and being crooked, a lot easier than proper counter canter.
The way to correct this is to slowly, very gradually, make the horse straight. Try to persuade him that he has to bend to the right when he turns right and that he has to take a contact on the left rein when he turns left. Without making a left spin, that is....
Christos
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Member:
Canderso
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Posted on Friday, Nov 26, 2004 - 4:42 pm:
Thanks, Christos. I think by your emphasis on the word SLOWLY that you see why I posted the question in the first place.
It really is quite easy to adjust my horse right now - I am wondering if the relative ease is because it will always be this easy or because the horse is extremely new to being ridden (remember, only 6 months under saddle). While I would welcome the former, I fear the latter and if it is the case, I don't want to miss capitalizing on the oppportunity!!!
As an aside, Christos, I found it interesting that you focus on the fact bending to the left frees up the right shoulder. I had come to the conclusion that it freed up the left hind - so we aren't disagreeing, but can you explain why you focus on the shoulder, and not the hind? The reason why I ask is that I have always learned/talked about canter strike off in terms of the leading hind leg, and not the fore.}
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Member:
Liliana
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Posted on Friday, Nov 26, 2004 - 5:34 pm:
Well my dear I guess terminology can get confusing ehh, I thought the same but really how could anything lead from behind?  You strike on the left hind if you want to go on the right lead ie. front right
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Saturday, Nov 27, 2004 - 3:55 am:
Well, Cheryl, my emphasis on the word slowly actually means that a dressage horse does not belong in canter work in his first year of training. Sorry to be abrupt, but this is what I honestly believe.
In the first year under saddle, all you normally do is make the horse straight, supple and forward thinking.
You avoid any circle smaller than 25ft diameter, any collection, any "framing". Simply put, any attempt to these on a green horse kills his impulsion and his work ethics. All you want for the first year is a horse that gaily moves out of a light application of leg in a straight and impulsive fashion.
You do that in trot only.
Many people feel that if a horse is stiff to the right, asking it to work more or longer on that side will actually make it balanced and supple.
It will not, because a horse is not a wooden stick that you bend. The horse must bend by himself, he must learn to offer the bend, and to do so he must find it pleasant.
A proper bend, now, does not unload any leg. The very idea of a proper bend is balance, where weight is evenly distributed.
Being crooked, however, does unload the outside shoulder and it does disengage the inside hind. So, when a horse is crooked to the left he simply travels on the left fore - right hind diagonal, disengaging everything else. He keeps his heavy head to the left because that way it is right over the left fore - right hind line, nice and balanced (he thinks) over his strong diagonal.
The shoulder is important at this point because you simply do not work the hind legs yet, as it is too early for any collection.
Popping the shoulder means that the horse takes uneven contact, and I believe you can't work the hind legs before you fix that.
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Member:
Canderso
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Posted on Saturday, Nov 27, 2004 - 11:31 am:
so we are on the same page. good.
And thanks for making that point re canter. I am not 'working' him at canter really at all, just trying to get the reaction to the aide more than anything - as you say, "getting him to move gaily out of a light application of the let in a straight and impulsive fashion" - but I have to admit I had not crystallized my thinking to this extent. Guess I had better re-read my Podhajsky again,eh?
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Saturday, Nov 27, 2004 - 11:58 am:
Podhajsky? Absolutely so. But don't skip the first chapters. Not a word of them.....
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Member:
Dyduroc
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Posted on Saturday, Nov 27, 2004 - 3:22 pm:
Christos, thanks a million for sharing. I'm as green as my mare to the world of dressage and have been feeling pretty 'challenged'.
After several months of lessons, we're still working mostly on walking 'gaily', staying within the aids, lessening the amount of aid requested to solicit the desired action and a little work on transitioning into the trot while holding body carriage.
We both have a lot to learn and your postings have helped me feel better about myself and my riding skills.
dyd
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New Member:
Hboggini
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Posted on Saturday, Nov 27, 2004 - 4:22 pm:
I just came from a Buck Brannaman clinic. I think this horse would benefit tremendously from his groundwork that he teaches. It talks about how to prevent the horse from having any bracing on either side. You can either purchase his groundwork tapes or read his book or if you have the oppurtunity attend a clinic. I highly recommend it.
HNB
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 28, 2004 - 4:03 am:
You're welcome, Dyd.
As far as I understand dressage, your post puts you ahead of many people I know.
You may think that "still" working walk and trot after "several" months puts you on the bright green side of the scale, but it is not so. I believe that patience and method are characteristics of an advanced approach.
It is easy to feel challenged with all the information about dressage nowadays. We're accustomed now in using terms that normally belong in the manege of the Spanish School of Vienna. It is good to use them, as they describe things very accurately, but it gives you the impression that a Grand Prix program is what everybody is doing in their backyard.
The sad truth is that almost everybody is attempting it. You hear people here and there talking unbelievable achievements within a couple of years and it leaves you wandering why the heck are horses in the Olympics that old...
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Member:
Imogen
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 28, 2004 - 6:04 am:
Cheryl, what happens if you bend him to the outside (ie the opposite of what you are trying to achieve) and then let him come back naturally to better straightness? Does it improve him at all or just confuse-a-horse?
All the best
Imogen
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 28, 2004 - 10:17 am:
Christos - right on. All the new "experts" are enough to make most riders feel like the classroom "slow child."
It is my belief that all disciplines take years to perfect. Read up on the way the old reinsmen of the west trained. It took years to get a finished horse...and this was with a very experienced rider. There is such a difference in watching a horse (& rider) that have learned their discipline the slow way vs. the "speed method." When horses are rushed they often "fall apart" and don't perform in a natural, relaxed way.
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Member:
Canderso
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Posted on Sunday, Nov 28, 2004 - 5:22 pm:
Hi Imogen,
Honestly, all it takes right now for me to 'straighten' Gregory (when going to the right)is to focus on forward forward forward, and to move my left leg back a titch to stop his haunches from straying in.
Because this correction is, well, so "correct", I really am not looking for another strategy - just more of an idea of how long the "honeymoon" will last.
As I said in the initial post, he really is wildly simple to adjust, by far the easiest horse that I have ever ridden. I opened the thread because I got to thinking about other horses I have ridden, and then wondered if Gregory is so easy because he is so green (so honeymoon will be short) or because he is just really nicely put together and his amiable, cooperative personality is shining through (so this should last).
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Member:
Imogen
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Posted on Monday, Nov 29, 2004 - 5:03 am:
The only word of warning I would give is that Irish draught bred horses can sometimes be a different kettle of fish when they are fit... (not suggesting he's not fit, just that as he muscles up he might get a bit sassier).
Imogen
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Monday, Nov 29, 2004 - 11:50 am:
Though what Imogen says is true (I take her word for Irish Draught and I want to add that the same happens with Thoroughbreds, they often become too strong as they reach top fitness), the opposite also happens quite frequently, ie a horse becomes more willing, softer, as he develops, simply because he finds the exercises easier, both mentally and physically.
The rule is that whatever your horse offers willingly, especially early on, will almost surely become permanent with very little encouragement.
Bottom line, it takes a noble horse and a noble rider to have remarkable results early on. I believe you're lucky to have eachother, Cheryl.
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Member:
Imogen
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Posted on Monday, Nov 29, 2004 - 12:04 pm:
It's just that because draughts are usually so quiet an amenable it can come as a bit of a shock to people when they act up!
All the best
Imogen
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Member:
Dyduroc
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 3:25 pm:
Imogen, your words of caution are well founded-- Drafts can get a little saucy and because of their size and strength, a little dangerous.
I have a Clydesdale mare and have been told by many people that they are the 'hottest' of the draft breeds.
That being said, it's been my experience that the sassy attitude shows up mostly when I'm asking my mare to do something new. Once she gets the idea of what I'm asking her to do, she returns to the docile, willing, wonderful girl I've come to love.
My instructor/trainer told me early on that it's the stress caused by confusion and uncertainty that can turn these horses into powerful demons.
So far, she's been correct.
Experience has taught me to be very conservative when introducing new concepts. I've been able to stay seated through one bucking tantrum and barely miss crashing through a fence on two occasions before fully grasping the concept of easing into new concepts SLOWLY. Fortunately, neither of us was hurt.
dyd
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Member:
Kckohles
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 5, 2004 - 11:26 pm:
Hi Cheryl,
I think one really important thing that is missing from this conversation is about the rider and how much we affect the horses' travel. Most horses are relatively straight naturally they just need to learn to travel "straight" under a crooked human. I think horses can have preferences but typically that develops out of conditioning from the human more than from birth. I have heard a lot of talk about left and right handed horses and it can depend on how they are in the womb and so forth but I think the biggest contributing factor is the rider. I do an exercise where I have riders ride without one stirrup and then try it with the other one. Almost all riders over weight one stirrup and riding without helps you find and correct the problem. You will feel like you are falling off to one side more than the other. The other thing I have riders do is find their main diagonal, we have one diagonal that we choose without thinking, it feels more comfortable to us. These little exercises really help us see where we are unbalanced and then cause a positive shift in our horses.
One other thought about this is saddles, if you feel like your saddle is constantly slipping off to one side, the cause is most likely over weighting one stirrup.
KIM
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 8, 2004 - 4:13 pm:
Kim;
Couldn't agree with you more. As much as we try to be straight, most of us are crooked. I myself am aware that I overweight my right stirrup & colapse my left side.
A very easy way to tell if one does these things is to look closely at pictures, taken on different horses, at different times. If you see that one stirrup is usually lower than the other, you are crooked. If you see that one shoulder is held lower than the other .... you are crooked. After 20 years of riding the same horse I have shaped his back and shoulders to my idiosycrasies. Being aware does help though and I try to be conscious of MY faults when I ride. The collapsed side can be cured by raising the arm from that side over your head periodically. I like your idea of diagnosing overweighted stirrups, but what do you recommend to try to fix it?
All these things get amplified for my horses as I am an endurance rider. Like I said 20 years and many miles have shaped my old horses back to my faults. I don't beat myself up too much about it because I have studied many pictures of "top" riders and guess what? They are crooked too! Most of us probably have physical reason we cannot be straight on a horse. I have one leg shorter than the other.... which carries into my spine (which is not straight either). As there are very few "perfect" people I would suspect that this is the case in a lot of riders.
Just my thoughts....
Lisa
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Member:
Kckohles
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 11, 2004 - 1:06 pm:
Hi Lisa,
The best thing for helping riders to get straight is for them to know they are crooked. Bringing it to the forward part of your brain as you have, will help you ride straighter. The other thing I will suggest for you is to find your strong diagonal and always start out on the other one and when you are riding along (or a long long way like you) make an effort to check which one you are posting on. Posting on only one diagonal all the time is like rowing a canoe only on one side of the boat, that side gets really strong! Get off and on on your weak side. Which you over weight the right it will help balance you. The other thing I was just recently introduced to, are orthotics. They are expensive and should be made for you, but they make a huge difference in balance. If your one leg is shorter they will put a lift in that side. The cost is well worth it because the pain and fatigue our bodies experience just from trying to center and balance us is huge.
I also look back and check to see if the center of my saddle is aligned with my horses spine. When I ride with other people I have them let me know if I am listing off to one side. Riding without your right stirrup will help you immensely as well, this technique not only helps find the stronger side it also helps straighten you.
KIM
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Member:
Gwen
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 11, 2004 - 1:32 pm:
Please correct me quickly if I am taking this post on a tangent! I have been super crooked for years now (it seems that many instructors don't want to "go there") and am at the point where my muscle memory is so ingrained that I am not sure where to begin. I have just discovered that my horse has major knots in his muscles due to improper shoeing, bad saddle fit and my crookedness. (I don't know how all of this happened-I am the most anal horse person around!) Anyway, I thought I would sort of piggyback on this post to trouleshoot consequences of long-term crookedness for both horse and rider. I am doing some massage therapy, but am really apprehensive to ride him again. Also, how well does yoga relate to this? Just kick me out if I am taking this off topic!
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Member:
Hboggini
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 11, 2004 - 1:47 pm:
Hi Gwen
I have been following this message for some time now. I do believe that we make our horses crooked by our positions. I have been teaching pilates for 3 years and have been doing it for 5yrs. It has helped my riding tremendously just understanding where my crookedness is and correcting it. If you have access to a pilates studio try it, just make sure the instructor is certified through a recognized pilates institution. Good Luck!
Heidi
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Member:
Kckohles
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 12, 2004 - 1:12 am:
Hi Gwen,
I have been doing Yoga three times a week for about a month and a half and have not only seen a positive shift in my flexibility but being centered and grounded are two other amazing benefits of Yoga. In fact I use some Yoga phrases now when I teach like "lifting and opening your spine" and "lengthening the backs of your legs" "Grounding your heels but relaxing your body"
The being centered and grounded will really help your horse. When you ride stay in your body rather than in your "head" thinking about how you should be riding better or straighter.
I've got to run but I do have a few more ideas about this
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Member:
Canderso
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 12, 2004 - 8:35 am:
One thing my physiotherapist reminds me of constantly - if both you and your horse are crooked, and you want to straighten out, BOTH you and your horse need to do stretching and exercises.
Food for thought...
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 14, 2004 - 6:02 pm:
Kim;
Thanks for your advice. I've been doing that for years though. (using the "bad" diagnal first). My reward (even on training rides) is to switch to my good diagnal at the half way point. In competitions (which are usually in 15 mile sections), I switch back and forth on each new loop. Always starting on my "bad" diagonal and doing any odd loops on it again. Which incidentally has gotten much stronger. However, I'm still overweighting my right foot because that foot always gets sore first. Sore feet is common among endurance riders. People have this mis-concieved idea that your sitting most of the time in distance riding. It's absolutely the opposite. Most of the time is spent with weight in the stirrups (i.e. posting).
Anyway .... interesting ideas. I was going to start pilates but didn't think about it helping my riding. Now it sounds even more of a good idea.
I'm assuming orthodics are gotten from a pediatrist? I was looking into some gel inserts ....maybe I could do both.
Thanks
Lisa
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 15, 2004 - 8:34 am:
I've been following this post and boy, can I relate to the "crooked" horse and rider. I too suffer from one stirrup feeling longer, feeling like I was going off one side, toes going numb. It wasn't until I noticed my main riding horse getting a huge lump on her wither that I realized how bad I was hurting her also. Then we had a horse go so lame (Bowed Knee post) she's never going to rideable again. This I believe was from riders not using both leads, not understanding how to post, etc. She was the horse everyone learned on and I believe that certain people's lack of skills brought her to her early permanent lameness. So getting us and horses straight is important!!!
My added advice is a chiropractor will also be of some help. If your pelvis is tipped up and more forward on one side, you will be crooked. I can tell when I need an adjustment because I am off on one side when in the saddle. After chiro I am straight again. But without exercise and stretching, all the adjustments in the world won't keep you there in the center.
Gwen,
A book that was suggested in another post was "Pain Free" by Peter Egoscue". The exercises in there are very easy, like laying on your back, feet up on the couch. Take some time but line things back up. Teaches your muscles what they are supposed to be doing. Also the old original Callenetics tapes are great, and as mentioned already, are Pilates and Yoga. Anything that gets us stretching will benefit us!! And our riding and our horses comfort.
Lisa,
I have found the use of some reasonable priced shoe inserts help also. About $20.00 a pair. A good shoe store would be able to help you based on what your needs are. I for example get some that support my arch, and keep me from overpronating me feet. (rolling in) I use these in all my shoes and riding boots. Yesterday I spent the day shopping in some dressy winter boots, no insert. I was in pain by the end of the day. They do help!!!
Christos,
Can you come to my house with all your knowledge? I hope you don't mind, but I am going to print your advice out to put in my barn file!
Here's to getting "straight"!!!
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Member:
Chrism
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 15, 2004 - 5:37 pm:
Another thing to remember is that the horse is narrower in front than back. So, when you ride in a ring with a fence, the tendancy of the horse is to hug the fence, which can contribute to being crooked.
I find riding off the fence line to be really helpful.
The other thing I try to keep an eye on is the texture of the reins in my hand. If one is quite a bit heavier in any direction, that tells me that I need to do circle, mini leg yield, half circle, lots of direction changes, big serpentine loops, etc. to encourage the horse to take more of a bite of the soft rein (soft rein on the outside bends). Our tendancy is to hold fast at times, so, ala Walter Zettl, you also give a tad with the rein that feels heavy. Don't twiddle with the reins a lot, think seat and legs first. Make sure the horse responds to your let aids, praise him when he accepts a forward cue and moves off.
Finally, if I think less of positioning hind end in/out and more of positioning front (think mini-shoulder fore with greenie) this also helps.
Lots of breaks, praise and focus on forward, calm and straight are the focus for me.
Also give your greenie time to re-balance his body after you mount - a rider raises the center of gravity and it takes most horses a few walks around the arena to re-acclimate to a rider.
Why one way is hollow and one is stiff on most horses has been discussed for eons. One thought is that a horse has a dominate eye and he is trying to see with his dominate eye. Letting greenies look around a bit prior to work is also a good practice.
My older horse is hollow one way and the young horse the other. I'm still right handed. So, I just think they are born this way, like we are.
HTH. I like Walter Zettl's book and videos a lot.
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 16, 2004 - 10:57 am:
Christine,
WOW, you have said exactly what my trainer tells me to do (give when the rein feels heavy and slight shoulder fore). I have been doing this for a few weeks now, and my horse is a different animal. Transitions are easier, we land on the correct lead over fences, he is easier to adjust, etc. He did always travel with his haunch to the inside, and I knew that, but wasn't talented enough to do the shoulder fore correctly (I have a lot of trouble with timing my aids, comes from being a musician and feeling like I have to follow a director instead of lead). Also, it is REALLY hard to remember to do that little give in the rein when they lean. My horse is VERY spooky and if I clutch the reins, it is asking for a spook. Your post is exactly my and my trainers philosophy, just had to let you know  I might have to get the Walter Zettl stuff from what you say.
Alicia
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 16, 2004 - 3:23 pm:
Alicia points out something very important here.
The horse gives only when you give first. Always.
Be it in bending, leg yielding, turning, half halting, skid halting, leading, picking up a leg or whatever, be it a leg, hand, seat or lunge aid, the actual aid is when you release it, not when you apply it. Come to think of it, that's why it is called an aid and not a restriction.
Many people think that you must maintain pressure until the horse gives. I do not agree with this. You must give first. You don't give it all up, you give just a little, but you give first.
This is indeed very difficult to remember as part of a drill. The "take-give-take a bit more-give a bit less-take a bit less-give a bit more-take all for support-give to stretch-take a bit...." sequence would be torturous to remember for even the simplest exercise. Even if one posesses exceptional memory and nerves of steel, it would make the performance very mechanical.
All you need to remember is that whenever you feel stiffness or resistance, any stiffness or resistance, you give first.
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 16, 2004 - 4:23 pm:
Christos,
That reminds me of one other thing. I play ping pong with my horses all the time. What I mean is, you aid for forward, the horse speeds up, you half halt, on and on. It is on going. I have had a few moments where I asked for a longer stride and more engagement and actually got it, but in the early stages of training (where I still am, at no fault of my 8 year old horse!!!), you only get a few good moments at a time. Let me tell you, though, those moments are worth all the rest! When I get an engaged, forward, inside hind underneath, wither raised moment (I can count the number of those on 4 hands in the last year with this horse), it makes all the work worthwhile. I strive for those. The best times are when you get it while jumping (my last horse put me off jumping, but when the flat is right, the jumps just come with this horse)!!!!
Alicia
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 16, 2004 - 4:32 pm:
Great information! Thanks for posting.
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 16, 2004 - 5:10 pm:
Aileen,
It has taken me way too long to get a good instructor who knows what is "right". I am very happy now that I know that pulling my horse's head to the inside is not a bend, and leaning up between his ears is not a "release". Unlearning bad habits is hard. I still hear my old instructor shouting, "kick harder" when a horse wouldn't jump, change a lead, or change gaits. I work every day to unlearn the bad stuff. I use those times I described above to tell myself it is working, and I see how my horse has changed muscling, and how much easier it is for him to leg yield and shoulder fore and that makes me feel I can continue. Plus, I have a foal on the way who I can start off with knowing more than I have with any other horse I have ever taught, and I know I will do better with this one (not that I have given up on my gelding, he is relearning too).
Sorry to be so, well, I guess philosophic, but I just got back to my office after the first Christmas party here and I am a little "happy"
Alicia
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 16, 2004 - 5:24 pm:
I'm relearning with lunge lessons with my eyes closed (Thanks to Christos, I would have never been able to imagine how much he moved under me!).
It's much more fun when you're horse "likes" his job isn't it. My guy is learning that it's ok to take the bit (trained in rolkur)..and I'm learning it's ok to give
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 16, 2004 - 8:17 pm:
Wow, I have really enjoyed this thread. You guys are really knowlegeable! I am so used to my friends telling me that sites like this are for chatty teenagers. I love the fact that so many of you are in tune to subtle influences.
Thanks for the education. I know where to go when I have a question.
Erika
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Member:
Gwen
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Posted on Friday, Dec 17, 2004 - 8:32 am:
This is such a great conversation! I have sort of come to the conclusion in my lifetime of frustration that these concepts are so hard to teach because so much of it is individual perception. For example, when others talk about the weight you should have in your reins I think that what one person feels can be sooo different from another. Maybe I am overthinking this, but I think I am one of those concrete people who needs it drawn out in big black and white! Sally Swift does a good job with this type of explanation I guess.
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Friday, Dec 17, 2004 - 10:57 am:
Hi Gwen,
Another trick is to put reins underneath your bare feet (while you're off the horse of course () and play with the tension in the reins. It tells you exactly what pressure you are putting on your horses' mouth when you hold the reins, close the fingers, open the fingers, sqeeze, vibrate etc.
I think this is one of Christos' tricks too (;)
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Member:
Chrism
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Posted on Friday, Dec 17, 2004 - 12:01 pm:
Learning "feel" is a lifelong pursuit.
My instructor often asks, "Where are you, how does it feel?" This is where it is so personal between you and the horse. It may look good, but if it doesn't feel good (assuming you know the standard of good feel) then you must improve.
I've also had instructors take one end of the rein and show me "contact" at different gaits and different level horses.
Riding a schoolmaster horse can also teach you what feels right and how you managed to get it.
Another fun exercise is for one person to be the horse and wear the bridle over his head, with hands on the bit for the horse's mouth. Without verbalizing, the other person takes the reins and tries to influence. Horseperson feels the strength of rein aids and can also imitate motion of horse at walk/trot/canter. Also, see how a jerk in the chops really feels.
You can add voice to get a sense of when an aid is applied and when you feel it, interpret (or don't if it is poor) and react. Sometimes we give a good aid and don't allow the horse to respond.
Cheers. Happy holidays.
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Friday, Dec 17, 2004 - 3:46 pm:
I think I need to be the horseperson.
Thanks Chris!
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Member:
Canderso
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Posted on Friday, Dec 17, 2004 - 4:21 pm:
I am going to throw another thought into the crooked rider/crooked horse thing: Sometimes to make the horse straight, you need to ride crooked.
So with my 4 year old, I need to ride him on the right rein with my left leg a little further back, to stop his haunches from falling out.
I don't start with that leg back, but as soon as the haunches start to float over, my leg goes back.
(aside: I then get on my other horse who is crooked in the other direction and he is one happy camper until I realize I haven't switched gears!)
I am hoping that with time this type of persistent correction won't be necessary.
Is this realistic?
Is there a nirvana where both you and your horse are perfectly straight?
Does it ever last for more than two or three strides at a time?
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 18, 2004 - 6:32 am:
Here's a little trick, Cheryl:
When bringing your leg back behind the girth, don't lift it, brush the horse's side with it.
He'll get the message, slowly, and he'll be bringing his haunches in with less and less length of this brushing. He'll come to the point where to bring his haunches in you'll only need to push his skin backwards a bit with your outside leg, if at all.
This way not only you eliminate the need to move your leg, but you also create one new cue you can use, since the "leg behind the girth" cue will be "empty" to be reprogrammed for canter departs or whatever you want.
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