This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Training, Behavior, & Conditioning Horses » Tack and Training » Saddle Pads and Blankets »
  Discussion on Training young mare to tolerate blanketing
Author Message
Member:
9193

Posted on Monday, Nov 29, 2004 - 12:03 am:

Hello All,
I have a friend at our barn who has a four year old mare. My friend has a trainer who works closely with her and they are bringing the mare along nicely.

The mare was in pasture for her first years and was brought to our barn with stalls and attached paddocks about six months ago. The mare is not the warm and fuzzy type. She is our stall neighbor and she always puts her ears back against her ears when we stop to say hi and she will nip if you give her a chance. Her owner and trainer don't coddle her, but she isn't a laid back little girl.

My friend would like the mare to tolerate being blanketed by other barn workers, but the mare lays her ears back and intimidates the workers that are assigned blanketing duties. The barn owner refuses to blanket the mare because of her behavior. It is difficult for my friend to blanket and unblanket her because of the cranky and surly behavior of the mare. She is only blanketing her for 20-30 minutes at a time to get her use to the procedure, but she has to be on her toes putting on and taking off the blanket to dodge the head.

Any thoughts to share on how to train this mare to tolerate the blanketing procedure and how to introduce other people to do this with out trauma to the mare or the other barn folks?

PS. She is not clipped, so she is in no danger of freezing, but the owner and trainer feel this is a procedure that she needs to learn to tolerate for the future.

Thank you for your thoughts,
Debra
Member:
Alden

Posted on Monday, Nov 29, 2004 - 9:26 am:

Debra,

“they are bringing the mare along nicely”

Ruling out medical problems, this mare is saying something else. My guess is they are not teaching, but bullying her.

Unfortunately some barns and trainers talk all the right words, but behind the scenes it is nothing but abuse. Last night it was abuse with with bit and spurs and a young stud colt not ready to be ridden but was anyhow; Lots of jerking and stabbing. Local barn and trainer with the right words, but the picture was wrong.

I can't say this is the case with your barn. I'm just saying look deeper, the mare is trying to tell someone, something isn't right.

Good day,
Alden
Member:
Redmare

Posted on Monday, Nov 29, 2004 - 10:30 am:

Good observation, Alden. It's more important to listen to what the animal has to say than the people. Animals may not have words, but they speak loud & clear! That said, this mare may also have issues with the sudden confinement. Horses can get extremely fearful or aggressive in stalls because their territory is so small. Putting a blanket over her body might be accentuating that feeling of confinement.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Monday, Nov 29, 2004 - 12:04 pm:

Ditto to Alden's post.
Member:
9193

Posted on Monday, Nov 29, 2004 - 3:44 pm:

Hi,

What I meant by "bringing her along nicely" is that she is handled with kindness, patience, and consideration for her age and development. I watch this horse get handled every day and she is NOT treated in a way that would even come close to the definition of bullying. She leads well, stands in crossties, tolerates grooming, tacking, and generally has decent ground manners, but the blanketing seems to be a procedure that she really doesn't like to have done.

Perhaps the idea that she does not like to have a blanket put on in the stall has some merit. Perhaps she feels that once she is back in her stall, then she just wants to be left alone to do her own thing. The problem is that if she is to be blanketed in the future, it is done in the horses stall and all of the horses in the barn are blanketed during feeding time and are loose in their stalls. My friend has been practicing putting on the blanket in the stall quietly, calmly and with treats for good behavior, but the mare will pin her ears back and try to nip during the procedure of putting the blanket on and off. I have watched the procedure and there is no flinging around of the blanket with buckles hitting all over the place like the way I have watched other people blanketing their horses with no consideration of hardware against horse bodies.
Our barn owner will not blanket any horse that will not tolerate having the blanket put over the horses head because she does not want to undo and rebuckle the chest buckles.

So the question remains, how does one proceed to get a horse use to the idea of being blanketed in her stall and learning to tolerate blanketing in a good natured way?

Thanks,
Debra
Member:
Deggert

Posted on Monday, Nov 29, 2004 - 4:12 pm:

Hi Debra
I don't think the barn help will follow an appropriate blanketing procedure for your mare's case because I watch the blanketers at our barn and they have 40 head to blanket during dinner, loose horse. It goes fast and if the horse needs tlc it won't happen. I would forego the blanket for this horse, but work with her anyway to get over this. She must be haltered, if it is truly fear of having the blanket over her head, then undo it and go slow and rewards are good. Some horses are happy with pets and kind words, other love treats. I have a gelding who hated blanketing because he was afraid of the noise and especially over his head. His nature is to be afraid but not ever mean so I would make the neck portion of the blanket big and made sure the whole time I was attempting to put it over his head that he could see, he is very food oriented so I had treats for when he tolerated the blanket over his head he immediately got a carrot. It all has to be pleasant. I don't need treats anymore although his eyes get big when we put the blanket over his head. good luck with her
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Monday, Nov 29, 2004 - 5:56 pm:

has this mare been blanketed before? Does she let the owner do it? I have 2 mares and what obnoxious girls they are in their stalls. Actually that is a separate dilemma that needs addressing outside of the blanketing issue.

Obviously a four year old is just still learning. And the owner can't just say ok lets start blanketing. This is something the mare needs to learn to accept. Just like the saddle. Or the bit. If its never been trained. You aren't going to get a barn hand to just handle it. And the mare is going to put up a fight.

I figure a few outings out in the field, letting her eat grass and introduce this terrible blanket that way. over the course of a week i bet the horse will put the blanket on herself.... LOL... This is what i did with my 4 year old. A slow introduction while she is focused on something else... like grass. I also would do it after rubdowns. But no cross tieing. she might have bolted. Mine truly was scared of the blanket. And it took time. And patience.

Barn hands can't be expected to handle a horse that can't accept a blanket easily. like debbie said, 40 horses a night. They aren't going to blanket the trouble makers.

On the flipside. A mare is very territorial. Mine has ripped shirts off of people getting too close to her stall. This i am sorry to say became a huge problem. They even wanted to put her in the stallion aisle which had bars on the top of the stall doors. I worked it out, but it took lots of time. and more training. She did it to me once. And i (3 second rule) laid into her, so to speak. This is dominance and territorial issues and they need to be addressed outside of the blanketing. And mares are the worst. People need to be able to go into her stall and she must behave.

Also, what barn help is intimidated by horses? I am not sure that is a good scenario. If she is that scary she is a problem and needs more training. On the other hand if the barn help is timid.. yikes. What are they going to do if this horse ever gets cast in her stall?

I hope this helps. And Alden you sure are quick to assume the worst aren't you? LOL...
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 30, 2004 - 6:30 am:

I dont understand why the barn people would not undo the front buckle and put it on this way. Baby steps. After all it would be for only a short time till she accepts blanketing happily then after a few weeks slowly introduce her to putting her head through. Goodness it would take an extra 30 secs to a minute to put it on this way. I am glad I am not at your barn. What is an extra minute to keep the horse happy.
Just my thoughts
Member:
Alden

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 30, 2004 - 9:58 am:

“She is our stall neighbor and she always puts her ears back against her ears when we stop to say hi and she will nip if you give her a chance.”

This isn't behavior of a happy mare, obviously I can't 'diagnose' the problem remotely, but she is try to tell someone there is a problem, in her way. I still don't think this is a blanket problem.

I've seen two horses, both mares, that would sour on training quickly if the trainer didn't reward the SLIGHTEST try. If you missed the first try theses horses would try again but weren't happy about it and even the best trainers miss.

To answer Debra's original question, yes she can be trained to accept a blanket. But if she doesn't have a good feel of people she isn't going to be as receptive to training as she should be.

I use a plastic grocery bag tied to a stick. Start flapping the bag like crazy at a distance she can handle, then move closer flapping until she gets concerned, continue to flap at that distance until she calms; Stop and reward. Repeat the above several hundred times and she'll learn to accept what ever in your hands as safe. I've never had trouble putting anything on a horse that has accepted the bag.

I know Clinton Anderson has video showing this and John Lyons may as well. If you live near enough in Western Colorado I'd be glad to show you myself.

Hopefully I've balance the positive, and negative well enough I'm not the 'grumpy old guy', just yet anyhow. (IMHO)

Good day,
Alden
Member:
Cowgrl

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 30, 2004 - 12:47 pm:

If it's any consolation, my QH WooDrOw hates being blanketed since the day I bought him 9 years ago - he's 18 now. He does the whole ear pinning thing no matter how quiet or careful I am with it. I just have the feeling he doesn't feel it's manly as he is a very manly guy (LOL). Once it's on he's back to his normal happy self.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 30, 2004 - 5:34 pm:

Debra,
It appears to me that these people are not treating the mare with kindness, patience and consideration for her age.
This mare has every right to be unhappy in the sight of a blanket if an inconsiderate, clumsy, got-to-do-it-fast strange biped has pulled a heavy blanket over her head a couple of times.
I find their reluctance to undo the buckles unacceptable. One saves time by becoming proficient, not by doing things in the wrong way.
Still, if they find that their modified procedure saves them so much time, it is their responsibility to take the ridiculously little time required to desentitise the horse to it.

Christos
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 30, 2004 - 6:31 pm:

awww c'mon guys... a barn hand needs to take responsiblity for someone else's horses bad behavior? or teaching? This dicussion is getting stupid.

A barn hand with 40 horses or more making what 8 bucks an hour? i don't think so. Its not their job, nor their responsibility to worry about a horse that is unruly. Timidity on the part of the employee is one thing. That can be dangerous. But a seasoned hand won't be coddling a rank horse. And to take on responsibility that is undoubtedly the owners is pure hogwash.

I remember when i used to board... gone happily... But, situations would arise that you have to worry about the whole group. Not necessarily just one. (illness is a different matter). I remember an episode where a lady put up 4 buckets and wanted all four filled by the staff every morning...since the rule was no stall entry unless in an emergency that posed problems for the staff. And slowed down the process. And well most horses only needed 1 - 2 buckets, if they wanted. soon every one started putting up more buckets. Guess what? the time to feed and water tripled....finally the management had to put their foot down. 2 buckets max. 3 if a horse needed it and there better be a vet recommend. Point is there has to be a point where the management says sorry can't do it.

Getting back to the original post. I think its fair that barn hands don't want to do it. Until lthis horse is "desensitized" by the trainer or owner, its not the responsibility of the management.

Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 30, 2004 - 8:20 pm:

My thoughts on this subject: 1st of all, 6 months isn't that long of time for a horse to adjust to new surroundings. We may think so, but every horse is different. She may be of the personality that she don't like a stall/paddock combo, and misses the big pasture she came from. (we have the sweetest ol' mare ever, and she hates being stalled, bounces off the walls etc, but loves being in during cold/wet weather, as long as door is left open)

And how about changing who she is stalled next to? Does she get along with her neighbor?

If she's a nice as you say otherwise, then my guess is she's feeling afraid, and trapped. We have a 2 1/2 yr old filly who we bought as a malnourished yearling; flattens her ears at feeding time. Head tossing, white of eyes showing. So I wait til ears come forward the while I "elbow" her back til I dump her food in, one can at a time so she is learning patience. Slowly she's getting better. Also if she eats between the 2 older mares, she's alot different than by the 2 geldings.....

I have another horse who will flatten her ears if you fight her. Took me years to figure out she's afraid when she fights, or she's hurting. Ask, wait, and you have a wonderful horse to deal with.

So what have we got here? New surroundings, new horses, new people. Locked up, and everyone and their brother is trying to put a blanket over this horses head, and, the horse is sensing the fear in the people of course. I mean Hello? wouldn't you be acting ornery too if you were in her place? Say you're what, 12 yrs old ( I don't know horse yrs to human yrs) and you were in a similar situation. Would you just accept all this?

I agree with the posts above. Redmare, Christos and Aldens esp.

And I suggest for now, only one person blanket this horse. Take it s-l-o-wwwwwww. And unbuckle the darn thing....I mean it should be adjusted anyhow everytime it's put on, and checked over.
Member:
Liliana

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 30, 2004 - 9:07 pm:

It may help to let her smell the blanket, and just lay it folded on the saddle area so that she realises it is not the horse eating monster, and take it of a few times until she accepts it happily then gently unfold it, if she dislikes that, take it off and start again until she will accept it without buckling up and so on.

As Alden and others mentions kindness has different meanings to some people, I had a young Arabian in the yard who's owner loved him but she would always walk in crop in hand. mmm that to a horse and any one meant trouble! Patience is a key word with any animal in my opinion.

Being claustrophobic myself, I hate my diving gear and I have to brain wash myself before I put it on bit by bit, so I imagine a horse"s reaction when we want to put a blanket on them.
Member:
9193

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 2:38 am:

Yowzer!! I rechecked my second post and I guess there is a misconception that the blanket training is involving putting the blanket over her head!

I believe I need to clarify that the mare has NOT experienced the process of having the blanket put over her head. The mare, at this time, does not like the PROCESS of having the blanket put on her or taken off in the USUAL manner of all buckles undone and then having the blanket buckled on. Once it is on, she then wears the blanket about 20-30 minutes with the owner present talking to her, giving her treats and then the blanket is calmly and consideratly taken off. This process too, can elicit an attitude of impatience from the mare. The mare's owner is simply trying to get the mare to accept having a blanket put on her and taken off without protest or the laying back of the ears and attempts to nip. When she does attempt to nip, the mares owner gives her a strong verbal correction to let her know that teeth use is not okay. What I see practically every day, is patience, persistence, kindness and firmness with a young mare that seems to have a cranky temperament.

It is the owner of the barn that does all our blanketing. She is 60+ years old and blankets 30 or so horses every night and takes them off every morning and will even put on a lighter blanket for the chillier days. She does this from October till April. She does not want to deal with unbuckling and buckling 30 or so blankets, so if you want your horse blanketed, he/she had better get use to having the blanket put on over its head. I had never seen it done before and was not sure my guy would put up with it, but he never seemed bothered by it and that is the way it is done by her. I know of no other horse in any of the three barns that gets blanketed in any other way.

On the occasion that the barn owner has plans for the evening, there may be a substitute worker to do the blanketing. It may be the asst barn manager or her son or someone else who doesn't mind getting a few bucks to blanket for the evening. Since it is barn check time also, that is when other workers and the barn owner experience the laying back of ears and territorial posturing of the mare when they stop at her stall and check to make sure she is doing ok for the evening. For people who are not use to her, she gives you the impression that she would rather you stay on the other side of the stall. It is that behavior that the barn owner will not tolerate during blanketing. She communicated to the mares owner that she will not blanket a horse that she has to dodge nor will she expect any other worker to deal with the same situation. It is only the mare's owner that is involved with the blanket training.

The mare's owner realizes that IF in the future she would like to have the mare blanketed at this barn by the barn owner.. she will need to get use to having the blanket put over her head. IN THE MEANTIME.. the mare needs to get use to the idea that blanketing is a necessessary evil to get use to just like wearing a bridle, saddle or halter and the owner would like her to tone down her attitude.

I hope this lengthy explanation helps clarify this situation. NO one is abusing, bullying or making this mare tolerate anything over the top like having a blanket put over her head. It is the mare that having difficulty with the normal process of having a blanket put on. It is my belief that her owner will succeed in time by continuing to expose her to this process with kindness, patience, firmness and persistence.

The original post was written to garner ideas on what other folks may have used to overcome similar problems in young horses that also were not crazy about the idea of wearing a blanket..

To joj- Thank you for your helpful and insightful comments. Thanks to all the rest of you for your interesting responses..

Debra










Member:
Alden

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 9:42 am:

Debra,

Let me preface this post, I really do not wish to belittle or make anyone defensive, sometimes I'm not so good with my words. I find training horses fascinating. I'm currently reading “True Horsemanship through feel” by Bill Dorrance and Leslie Desmond and I see some of his ideas and comments in this discussion.

That said, hell will most likely have froze over before your will friend will see positive results using that method. There is nothing in it for the horse, the process is too large for the horse to grasp. In other words there is too much pressure and no clearly defined release (reward); treats given in this manner is just food.

This goes back to what I said before, she hasn't a good feel for the horse(I don't mean that in a mean way, many people don't have any feel for a horse). A verbal reprimand for nipping means next to nothing to a horse. Visualize what would happen if a young mare went up and nipped an older mare on the flank. I have such a situation here and there would be a lot of communication taking place, but very little, or none, of it verbal. That is the point I'm trying to make, it isn't correct to place human feelings and responses onto a horse. The horse just has no idea what is expected and that isn't good horsemanship. There is no feel.

I'd suggest your friend look for and find a trainer with one very specific goal in mind. To change that mare's mind about people, or as most people see it; her attitude. I would suggest the trainer she has isn't succeeding in that area.

I'm just coming to understand a little of what a horse can give us, if we meet them at their level and not force them into ours. Back to Bill's book, there are pictures of him, at 97 years old, and a ex-race horse he rescued because nobody could handle her (he was her last stop), working cows and holding clinics. This horse was his wheels, he had to use a hoist to saddle her after getting to the barn with crutches! And in the pictures she is one of the most relaxed happy horses I've seen. Just imagine if he could do that through feel (how could he use force, he could barely get to the barn!) then the possibilities for our horses should be limitless. Yet, I see unhappy rude horses all the time, so we (I include myself here, as I'm just seeing the full potential the last couple years) must be missing something.

I sure hope this helps, as that is my intent. Take it as you may, I'll get off my soap box for a little while now.

Good day,
Alden
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 10:51 am:

Alden & Debra;

"True Horsemanship Through Feel"...what a fascinating book!!! As Alden is pointing out, there needs to be a change in communication here. I still feel the horse is feeling afraid & threatened, but yet biting is not allowed or any other disrespect. If a horse bites me, or nips my clothes, that horse will be feeling a smack immediately!!! One quick smack, with a crop if handy, then we forget that and move on. Start again with kindness. Advance and retreat. We don't beat the horse, or let them turn the kicking end in our direction. We keep the eyes facing us. Now, if this horse is charging you after this, I'd say it's time to buy a new horse. And rarely will a horse do that, and you didn't say the mare was charging you.

I suggest also, if I may, try Clinton Anderson's Lunging for Respect. Once you get this horse respecting you, and you say she does well in training, start putting things on her back. On and off, on and off, repeat a zillion times. Start with regular blanket, then when she stands and it's no big deal, try a piece of plastic, a tarp, all kinds of things. Then use the regular blanket. Do this in an arena or paddock first, then when that is going 110% good, move the the stall again. But she must stay respectful!!! Even if she's fearful she must trust the person blanketing her!!!! Trust means no ears back, no teeth!

Debra, the hardest thing about posting is getting across what we are trying to communicate. We think we are saying what we mean, but it comes out another way, and presto, we submit the post, and then a few thousand people read it, and then they have their own ideas what is being said!! I know I always "yak" waaay too much, try to give examples so I hope everyone gets what I am trying to say. (of course my brain is faster than my fingers, and that gets me into trouble too) So, 'nway, thanks for clarifying what you meant to say.

To repeat a line from Alden's post above: I also have no desire to belittle or make anyone defensive. I just hope to say something that the original person posting, or anyone else, gets something out of to help!~

Good luck!!!
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 11:17 am:

You're welcome Debra... I think everyone here has some good points, but sometimes posting is a difficult process and the chance of reading between the lines and making inferences is a chance we all take when posting with out really knowing what is going on.

Another thing i remember, which is obvious, but maybe overlooked. in the beginning i would have to groom my horse before she would take a blanket. She didn't like the feel of the blanket on her back. The hair has grown out and there is more dirt, dander, etc And well, I liken it to when you would put your clothes back on after a day at the beach. ICK... what a scaley, weird feelig that would be. I hated it. That alone could be a reason a horse hates the blanket. the chafing.
Member:
Deggert

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 2:16 pm:

I agree with JOJ completely. this is not anyones responsibility but the owner. I wouldn't blanket if freezing is not the option. Work with her other issues and at some point the blanket will be easy. ( unless she has has some horrible experience ) By the way, food oriented horses do very well with treats as a training tool. It becomes the horses decision to do the thing they don't want to. They have a pleasant experience (eating) along with the scary thing, and you avoid the fight/ flight response. Then they do what you asked without treats eventually, works wonders. Oh well, enough of that. About the ear pinning and all. I agree, most horses if they have worn blankets and then not worn blankets and then you want to blanket again, would rather not. With this young mare I wonder if she is bluffing or means business. Closed front blankets are very popular especially on young horses as they can't play with buckles etc. But on a challenging horse I would also choose a buckle front.
Best of luck to your friend and her mare Debra.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 2:46 pm:

Just a thought here, how does the blanket fit the mare? Is it putting pressure on her withers? Her chest? We have a very experienced, sweet mare who normally is fine with anything you do, but started putting her ears back and gruching when she saw her blanket coming. It took a couple of times until we figured out her blanket, although the "right size" was putting too much pressure on her withers and upper shoulders. Perhaps the blanket fit for this horse should be rechecked?
Member:
9193

Posted on Thursday, Dec 2, 2004 - 12:46 pm:

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions such as the book, the checking of the blanket size, methods of introducing the blanket to a young horse and understanding that this method of posting does make it difficult to get precisely the tone and message across in the manner that it was intended.

I have totally enjoyed checking this post and reading the responses. It is hard to know just how much info to give when you post a question.

I have not felt belittled and the intention for my last post was to be very, very, clear so that there could hopefully be a better understanding of the situation with my friend and her mare. My apologies if the post came across as defensive..

I always learn something from visiting this forum and if I ever was nuts enough to aquire a young horse that needed training from the ground up, I know where I could get an opinion or two!!

Smiles to All,
Debra

Member:
Lilo

Posted on Thursday, Dec 2, 2004 - 2:21 pm:

Hello all,

I found this discussion very interesting. I don't blanket my horses and don't know how they would react, but, could build-up of static electricity be a factor - especially when taking the blanket off? Both my horses hate being zapped by static electricity!!

Lilo
Member:
Kckohles

Posted on Sunday, Dec 5, 2004 - 11:43 pm:

Bill Dorrance and Clinton Anderson should never be used in the same post unless you are describing polar opposites.

Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC