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  Discussion on Gadgets vs. Broundwork
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Member:
terrilyn

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 20, 2007 - 4:18 pm:

I need a little assistance in the art of gentle persuasion. Some time ago I free-leased my daughter’s large pony to a dear friend who lives nearby. She is an inexperienced horse person but an animal lover with a huge heart. I had hoped she would get some regular lessons for herself and send the pony for 60 days of training with a very good NH trainer that I know, but because of time restraints, she hasn’t done so. For a while my daughter worked with her showing her how to do some basic ground work and lunging, but she hasn’t been able to maintain any consistency because of her work scheduled (which I totally understand!)

This pony is about 11 or 12 and is a very crafty guy. When he was being used regularly he was an outstanding trail mount, but we never gave him a true, solid foundation of the basics and since Lauryn outgrew him several years ago, he’s been a tri-colored pasture ornament. He never had a good stop on him, but he could cover ground like a 16H TWH and we forgave him for what he didn’t do well. It was our fault for not teaching him what he needed to know.

Our friend who is free-leasing knew of his idiosyncracies and didn’t care…she’s very bold, no fear, but is still a green rider who hasn’t fully developed an independent seat. She recently bought a trailer and is READY TO RIDE. But of course, the pony (whose name is Pony), still has the same issues. A mutual friend of ours who rides and trains Saddlebreds went over to help my friend and Pony this weekend. She rigged him up in a German martingale and Kimberwick and off they went. She is now riding him this way and is happy that he stops.

I’ve let her know that she is jumping the gun and that he needs to get reacquainted with basics on the ground, and then under saddle. Can you all help me put this into a convincing argument for someone who is convinced she’s solved the problem? I really don’t want them to get hurt. And I love this horse and want to see him enjoy being ridden regularly…but under optimal circumstances. He has been ridden in a snaffle and a low-port curb in the past. We’ve never used any kind of tie-down. Am I too worried???
Member:
terrilyn

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 20, 2007 - 4:21 pm:

Umm----that would be GROUNDWORK, not Broundwork
Member:
erika

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 20, 2007 - 6:42 pm:

A German martingale that I am familiar with is not a tiedown type device. Rather, it is more like draw reins with a limit to the "draw", preventing the rider from cranking the horse in too far.
I've seen it mostly used for horses that get above the bit (high headed), but have only seen it used in conjunction with a snaffle.
I would be worried about using any equipment in inexperienced hands, but is the Saddlebred trainer going out on the trails with the pony's rider? Perhaps she can watch over them for safety. I do most of my training on the trail because I don't have a proper ring. I don't think that is a problem per se, but the supervision of a greenhorn would concern me.
If the Saddlebred trainer can ride with her they will probably be okay. If not, I agree with you that a controlled environment and lessons would be in order.
Member:
ekaufman

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 20, 2007 - 10:55 pm:

Hi Terri,

Of course it depends on the rider, but German Martingales can be extremely severe, especially if you bit them up.

But it's an awkward situation-- unless you are willing to bring the pony home, or pay a trainer to start this pony, then you are stuck trying to convince a busy novice to train a horse that no one else has seen the necessity of training. From her perspective, she has a cheaper approach that probably seems to work.

So it's kind of an unfair setup for the pony, who is being coerced without the opportunity to understand, but the more practical questions relate to her safety and his comfort. So I would suggest going to watch them, and see whether he looks happy and she appears safe. And if not, you may have an obligation to intervene.
Member:
dsibley

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 21, 2007 - 7:33 am:

I would be worried about safety implications on the trail with an inexperienced rider, the German martingale and Kimberwicke. If the pony spooks or just gets "PO'd" because of the unfamiliar restraints, I would think this is a recipe for disaster, and someone will get hurt.

Does she know anything about safe trailering?
Member:
canter

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 21, 2007 - 7:40 am:

Terri, you say your friend is an animal lover with a huge heart - try appealing to that soft spot of hers. A convincing (and truthful) argument to use is that she should want what is in the best interest of Pony...Correct training will make him a happier and healthier horse, with less of a chance for something to go wrong that could potentially injure him or make him sour.

If she truly loves him, I can't see how she could possibly disagree with that kind of logic.
Member:
terrilyn

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 21, 2007 - 9:19 am:

Thanks...good input here. I was thinking of this driving to work this morning, and came to much the same conclusion as Elizabeth...if I didn't take the time to train the pony solidly while we owned him (I know so much more than I did back then...but that doesn't help now!), how can I possibly expect a busy person with many obligations to do it? I did tell her when we gave him to her that professional training was called for...but of course, that's expensive and not effective without a similar education for the rider. I did hope she would follow up on it, though...

She is riding in the bit/martingale combo by herself out on trail. I agree with dieliz above that it could be dangerous for them; the pony doesn't suffer fools gladly...and I worry for their safety. The other good question is about safe trailering. I'll be sure to talk with her about that.

Fran, you are correct. That's what I've been trying to do and have said that in so many words. She doesn't seem to hear me. I will keep trying!!

Thanks to all of you...it helps so much to have a sounding board.
Member:
ekaufman

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 21, 2007 - 9:29 am:

Hi Terri,

One thing to consider is that the holidays are a wonderful time to deliver heavy-handed advice disguised as a gift

If you know a good trainer, give her and Mr. Pony a couple of lessons with a nice big bow on them. Maybe she will get bit by the learning bug.
Member:
dtranch

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 21, 2007 - 9:52 am:

Terri ...
I would think the training would be the responsibility of the owner, not the lessee. Unless, this was a predetermined aspect of the lease.

At any rate, In my opinion, these training aids usually don't fix problems, but rather disguise or control them. Remove the aids, and the problem usually comes back, often worse than before.

DT
Member:
erika

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 21, 2007 - 10:21 am:

I've slept on this one, and taken into account all the good advice above.

The image that keeps coming back to me is of myself as a horse-crazy kid. I would, and did, ride ANYTHING! No saddle, usually no bridle,(tried every kind of equipment--even homemade!); broken or unbroken; double, even triple, etc., etc., etc. And I wouldn't have changed any of it for the world.

Opposite extreme--currently have a friend who rode all her life but must have control over everything, including her friends' horses. Needless to say, she doesn't have much fun, and I no longer ride with her ("She's just full of helpful advice")! I do think there is a happy medium.

Not everyone needs lessons to enjoy riding. Not every horse is well trained.

Your friend, though naive, is an adult (I hope), she knows the situation. It sounds like she is so happy to have a horse to ride and that she will ride it! If they go out often, they will figure things out, and probably have a great time, and probably a few bruises to show for it. Hopefully nothing worse. The equipment is really the only thing bothering me. A change of bit often has only a temporary effect.

Make sure she has signed a release for you. Then give her my number. I've always enjoyed a seat-of-the-pants rider with enthusiasm! I'd be happy to ride out with her.
BTW, Terri, have you considered riding with her? Then she would have supervision and you could see how they are doing.

I know this is long, but I can just feel her joy at having a horse to ride!
Member:
terrilyn

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 21, 2007 - 10:28 am:

Dennis, ordinarily yes...but this is in all likelihood a lifetime lease. We have basically given her the pony because my daughter couldn't bear to outright sell him. She still thinks that when she graduates college and gets married and has kids she'll take him back and give him to her kids.

I'm thinking that it might be prudent at this point to just sell her the pony and transfer ownership.... I value our friendship and want to keep it intact. I don't want to be continually nitpicking her to death over things she's doing with the horse that I don't like.

Elizabeth, that is a FANTASTIC idea. It will give her a chance to use her new trailer too!
Member:
terrilyn

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 21, 2007 - 10:34 am:

Erika, you are right on. She is that seat of the pants rider....and LOVES it. And that pony is probably indestructible. I have ridden with her...and they just need some basic work together...if she will just follow through, that would be great.

I will be much happier if she will just lose the gadgets and the conviction that they are the answer. Your thoughts made me feel much better.
Member:
gwen

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 21, 2007 - 12:45 pm:

If the pony really has the temperament that won't drive him to retaliate to her "tools", she could be fine. I think that a huge factor to artificial things like you've mentioned is the tolerance level of the horse. Some will deal with it fine, and others will continue to resent it and grow worse. He may just have the personality that will take it "in stride".
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