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  Discussion on Horse physiology and behaviour
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Member:
Dhunt

Posted on Sunday, Jan 9, 2005 - 12:04 pm:

I don't know if this is the proper place for this question but after searching for more than 30 minutes for an answer, then 30 more to figure out how(where) to ask it, here I am!! My question is in reguards to the release of hormones,chemicals,enzymes in horses thru manual stimulation and massage to affect behaviour. This occured to me as I have found that I am able to virtually able to put all of my horses to sleep by rubbing or massaging them at the poll or just in front of the eyes. To the point of them almost stumbling. Does this trigger a release of endorphins or other hormones? If so, are there others that are released by other stimuli that elicit other attitudes/behaviours/performance? I have noticed that there is a difference in attitude after this when asked to perform. They seem to require less time to warm up, focus, "soften" to cues, respond to direction. Has there been any research to connect other specific hormonal release in relation to "set up" the horse for particular tasks? It seems that these "triggers" would be a great benefit when a horse is being asked to do a variety of jobs on a daily basis. Interested in what others have found works for them and any scientific results. Dan
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Sunday, Jan 9, 2005 - 12:26 pm:

Hi Dan,

I don't know about the poll, but I do know that there is an area at the point below the eye...there are two veins that seem to combine...making a "Y"...this is an accupressure point. A soft circular motion on this point seems to enable them to relax their muscles. There is also one at the point of the shoulder, and the front of the gaskin(I think it's the gaskin). These are colic accupressure points as well.

I was also told to massage the back before putting on the saddle, it also helps in the warm up.

As for my guy, carrot stretches help immensely. Especially the one to the hip.
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Sunday, Jan 9, 2005 - 9:46 pm:

I don't know of any studies, but something does kick in when you touch those areas. I sometimes find that holding my mares ear and twisting it gently and methodically in a certain manner will get her to calm down more so than a twitch would on her gums. But, that whole area above the poll is where i always soothe the horse. Plus inside the gums/lip area. I can put mine to sleep rubbing her gums...

Isn't that the premise behind using a twitch? It releases endorphins or what ever you call it to calm them? I have been told its used mainly to get the horse to focus on that pain as opposed to what is really going on, but i don't know.

jojo
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2005 - 7:05 am:

There is a large endorphin release when a nose twitch is applied but while some horses will fall asleep on the twitch others are obviously not enjoying it. The lesson here is that different strokes for different folks...uhh horses. The idea of accupuncture sites in humans and horses in interesting. In Dr Rameys very good review of the subject he found that human accupuncture points in tradiitional chinese medicine have changed many times over the centuries. There are no traditional accupuncture sites for horses and many of the ancient charts with horses and marks on them are for other purposes, like phlebotomy sites. Current recommended sites on the horse are either interpolated from human charts or found subjectively.
DrO
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2005 - 8:04 am:

If you do a search for The Stabilizer you may find some more info on the subject of these trigger points. This is a device that works by hitting points under the uppper lip and above the poll also. I read somewheres that the ideal behind the invention came from studying techniques used by Native Americans and others.

I'd love to see a chart of these points as they correspond to a horse. I have a gelding who really would benefit from something like this and plan on rubbing his face to see if I can find that point below his eye. I know when the Equine Dentist was here that his helper did a wonderful job of getting all the horses very relaxed by holding their heads and rubbing their faces. I wish I woulda paid more attention to exactly what he was doing. It was almost like the horses were tranquilized.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2005 - 4:18 pm:

Hi all,
I think I see a very solid difference between the horses that have been trained with the twitch before applying it for an uncomfortable procedure and the ones that haven't.
People should actually train their horses to release these endorphins. Applying a twitch or holding an ear or a fold of skin while being nice and calm and soothing works wonders for when you'll need to apply it for something uncomfortable.
Member:
Gillb

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 - 5:15 am:

I would tend to agree with Christos, I've seen twitches used on horses already in a stressful situation and have not seen it work on any of them! It may well work with some horses, but the ones I observed just carried on panicking. One was trying to be loaded in a hurry (she had never been loaded before) and was in a real state; the twitch had no effect whatsoever apart from probably making things worse. Another I saw was being clipped and again, no effort had been made to gently introduce this horse to clippers. She also got a twitch and ended up rearing and striking out.
Member:
Dres

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 - 10:30 am:

Regarding the twitch.. when we work with the very young foals, sometimes we will grab the nose and hold when presenting the clippers or something else the foal is wiggling about .. then later in life, all I have to do is grab the nose with fingers to get the horse to settle.. so I believe that Christos is correct in that you can condition them to settle with the act, the act does not have to hurt.. just another learning tool... example: just this past month I have been treating a coming two year old (16'2''hhs) for pigeon fever , I have to flush out the abscess, she HATES the invasion, BUT with my husband grabbing her nose she settles nicely for me to poke and probe...


On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS..

Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 - 11:19 am:

Christos,
I had never heard it expressed that way before. It makes sense. My 19 yr old mare was twitched for the first time by a vet back when horses were "tube wormed" regularly. It was not a good experience. We now cannot twitch her (don't need to anyway), because she reacts violently (fearfully). Vets have discovered this the hard way as she pops out of sedation when twitched and has to be given more sedative. The first time the vets at Texas A&M scoped her for ulcers, I let them know and they didn't try to twitch her and everything went great. The second time, I didn't warn them, thought it would be in her records. They gave her sedation and just before they inserted the tube they put the twitch on her. She came out of the sedation and they had to give her quite a bit more to get her calmed down. She has been scoped many times since and doesn't need the twitch. I understand why they did it, the equipment is very expensive and they prefer not to have to replace or repair it.
Kathleen
Member:
Gwen

Posted on Thursday, Jan 13, 2005 - 7:44 pm:

Sorry to get off of the twitch discussion, but I wanted to "piggyback" off of the initial posting about supposed pressure points. I have also heard something about the seventh rib of a horse being significant. Anyone? Just curious!
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