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Discussion on U neck
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Member:
Gwen
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 16, 2005 - 7:44 pm:
Does anyone have information or an experience with a u-necked horse? I was wondering how hindering this can be in terms of a horse's performance. Thanks.
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Member:
Canderso
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Posted on Monday, Jan 17, 2005 - 7:54 am:
Hi Gwen,
I think you are referring to a "ewe neck" ('ewe' as in sheep). The easiest way to explain this is the horse's neck looks disproportinately short and overdeveloped on the underside.
This is bad for two reasons:
1) it usually means the shoulder is quite upright (which means short, choppy action in the front - not fun to ride); and
2) lack of musculature over the topline (which means the horse is carrying itself in a manner that makes it prone to break down)
Bottom line, while every horse is different, a ewe-necked horse is (in every book I have read) a pretty risky bet from a performance perspective.
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Member:
Nisquy
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Posted on Monday, Jan 17, 2005 - 10:25 am:
To my understanding, an ewe neck is not so much a conformational flaw as it is something that has developed by a horse being allowed to travel with the head up and not in the correct "frame" for lack of a better word. I've seen this corrected many times through use of proper training and riding, where emphasis is on correct head carriage, the horse on the bit, and the development of a topline.
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Member:
Gwen
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Posted on Monday, Jan 17, 2005 - 10:37 am:
Sorry, I think I misspoke. I am referring to a colt (about six-nine months) who has a slight dip in the line from the neck to the wither. I thought that this was a "u neck", but am mistaken. I guess I don't know what it is called. Anyway, does anyone know about this scenario?
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Member:
Aletao
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Posted on Monday, Jan 17, 2005 - 11:46 am:
Another description of a "ewe neck" is one that is "put on upside down." That seems to fit your description, Gwen of the colt with a dip in the topline of the neck. Do you have any pictures of the colt?
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Member:
Gwen
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Posted on Monday, Jan 17, 2005 - 12:51 pm:
I do, but I can't seem to transfer it into a posting!
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Member:
Green007
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Posted on Monday, Jan 17, 2005 - 6:16 pm:
Hi Gwen,
It is called "ewe neck" when the neck comes out of the horses shoulder a little low and has an inverse curve (looks like a hammock instead of a rainbow)
I agree with the other posters in that it is not ideal for a dressage/competition horse because the horse is at a disadvantage stretching the topline and will tend to go above the bit with a hollow back. That said, every horse can be made better with good stretching work with side reins on the longe and then later, under saddle.
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Member:
Gwen
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Posted on Monday, Jan 17, 2005 - 7:02 pm:
It is driving me crazy that I can't get the picture up. I guess that has been my understanding-that it is not necessarily desirable, but not completely inhibiting either. I was kind of hoping for one of those stories in which someone owned the ewe necked horse who turned out to be a grand prix jumper or something. Thanks for the information!
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Member:
Sambor
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Posted on Monday, Jan 17, 2005 - 9:21 pm:
Hi,
I have had a couple of horses with mild Ewe-necks that have improved greatly with Dressage. One was a 10-year-old quarter horse. No, he did not make it to Grand Prix but did do lower level dressage and jumping very well and was one of my best lesson horses. The other was an Arabian mare I got as a yearling and her ewe-neck was worse then the quarter horses. She improved prior to training as she put on weight and muscle, you would never know she had a ewe-neck once she was trained. She competed up to 2nd level and was schooled to 4th; she also jumped with great form and scope. She was very competitive when she was not thinking too much (about all the pretty decorations on the fences), and is one of my favorite horses. If she would not have gotten a bone spur she could have gone much further in both disciplines.
I am sure the degree of the "ewe neck" would be a big deciding factor, not too mention how the rest of the horse is put together.
I have had many less than perfect horses surprise me with how far they went in their schooling. Good Luck with your young prospect.
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Member:
Kckohles
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Posted on Monday, Jan 17, 2005 - 10:58 pm:
Gwen,
Where exactly is the dip? Because from my understanding if traveling up the neck from the withers ideally there is a little dip down just after the withers.
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Member:
Green007
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 18, 2005 - 10:07 am:
Gwen,
I agree with Elizabeth. There is no such thing as a perfect horse, and what really counts more than the most fancy of fancy conformation is heart and work ethic! I would take a horse with conformational flaws and a good brain over a top conformation winner with no work ethic any day of the week!
Of course, top conformation plus a great mind is tops, but those are virtually always out of my price range...
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Member:
Gwen
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 18, 2005 - 7:13 pm:
Thanks ladies. Your input has been encouraging. Believe me, I am not looking for perfect! I just had no idea how much of an affect the condition has on performance. It sounds like not enough to worry about-unless I was planning on doing some grand prix jumping in the near future...
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New Member:
Paardex
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Posted on Friday, Jan 21, 2005 - 1:35 pm:
gwen, my reaction on your question is a bit late but being dutch explaining in english isn't that easy, so I left your problem for other people to answer. As I'm missing someting in their reactions which I think really important I'll give it a try.As a breeder of showjumpers and the occasional dressage horse for about 25 years I found the way ahorse (or foal) uses its neckDURING MOVEMENT predicts whether you will have training trouble or not.We have had horses with less than ideal necks who perfomed outstanding but all of them when moving (easiest to see in trot or canter) got a good round topline, if however the horse on its own was what we call"sterrenkijker" translates as stargazer and I don't know if this expression is used in English you where in for trainingtroubles. So look at your foal when trotting and remember during growth they tend to change from one day to another, but the way they use their body when moving does not change.
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Member:
Warwick
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Posted on Friday, Jan 21, 2005 - 1:48 pm:
Hello Hildenbrant and welcome!
You don't have to worry about your English at all - you said it very well.
Cheers
Sue
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Member:
Gwen
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 22, 2005 - 7:50 am:
Thanks everyone for your input. Unfortunately, while I hemmed and hawed, someone else adopted him! That'll show me. Great that he got a good home though.
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Member:
Kimbrly3
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 12, 2006 - 12:25 pm:
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Member:
Kimbrly3
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 12, 2006 - 12:34 pm:
I'm sorry I missed this post, but for giggles I thought I would post a pick of mare. Here she is just a yearling and shows a slight ewe neck going on. Granted she's got her nose up against the door, but the ewe neck is very slight when she is standing relaxed. She naturally carries her head high which contributes to the problem.
I work her with lateral flexion and stretching of the topline by asking her to give to the bit. Anything to encourage her head to DrOp. She will be three this March so I'll be able to do a lot more work on her this year. Even with the little bit of riding I did last year, she improved so I'm not concerned too much.
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New Member:
Kbarnes
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 3, 2006 - 12:34 pm:
I know I am VERY late in this thread but have had a lot of experience with this type of conformation 'flaw' in relation to training.
Over the years I have found a major percentage of horses with an 'ewe' neck (upside down neck) have it due to sheer conformation - the S curve in the neck itself from the point of attachment at the 'base' to the point of attachment at the skull. Look up Dr. Deb Bennetts web site, she talks a lot about this VS a poorly developed neck due to bad training practices (ie muscle development).
OFten I find that horses with short ewe necks with a... hmmmm how can I describe this, a head that is put on 'bluntly' (ie does not have a smooth curve at the top of the poll) tend to be heavier in the hand (ie hard mouthed) and tend to be more obvious 'one sided'.
A ewe neck that ties in low is also 'worse' as those horses tend to struggle getting 'light' on the forehand.
A longer neck that is ewe shaped but comes out higher seems to be the least problematic.
HOWEVER the neck SHAPE (again the S curve of the vertebra and not the muscle development) - can not be looked at individually, the neighboring body parts are equally important!
A thick throat latch with tight jaws doesn't help a ewe neck horse be 'softer in the bridle'. Being built down hill in general (rump high and / or the neck attaching low from the chest and/or low from the withers) is another set of bad combinations (for horse in an active, 'sport' discipline - say dressage, jumpers etc).
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