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Discussion on Almost 8 and still pulls away
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Member:
Geronimo
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 13, 2005 - 3:08 pm:
My gelding has figured out that he can out pull me if he wants to get away while on the lead rope. I have a trainer who has been working with him for 8 months. My horse rarely pulls away anymore from the trainer,( he did in the beginning), however he still does it with me. I have my horses respect in an arena, but in the open he is an handful for me. I have a hard time just trying to get him to the arena or round pen. It's very frustrating. He has done it since he was a foal, we've had good years and bad years. I've spent alot of money on trainers. I'm wondering if he will always do it with me. Maybe I'm the problem and it's not my horse. He is very sensitive and a stud chain only makes it worse. If he wants to get away, he will. I don't want to sell him and have him become an abused horse because of this behavior. Yet, he seems to be just as frustrated with me as I am with him. He sucks wind all the time when I am with him. He grinds his teeth too. Funny thing though, he nickers when he sees me, and pees. (What does that mean?) I asume he is happy to see me?
Is this something that I can hope to fix or is it too late since he has been doing this for years? He can be a fun horse, has a great personality and a wonderful gait, he loves to go and go. I just want to make sure that he has a good life and I'd rather put him to pasture at 8 years old than sell him and have him be mistreated because of a nasty habit that I created.
Thanks.
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Member:
Thomboy
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 13, 2005 - 9:19 pm:
I had a horse like this...a 10-yeaar-old, "kid gentle" horse, as a matter of fact. She was wonderful until, out of the blue, she would pull back and take the rope straight out of your hands (and skin with it if you weren't careful).
You can NEVER "outpull" a horse (except maybe when they are babies; however, a 4-month-old drug my husband across the driveway one day). You can only outsmart them! When my girl would pull back, rather than pull on her, I would go with her AND keep her going back until I asked her to stop. After several of these episodes, she decided that pulling back got her a little more than she wanted. Good Luck!
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Member:
Alden
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Posted on Monday, Feb 14, 2005 - 8:47 am:
Lisa,
This can be corrected by the right trainer, I've seen the results of the man that taught me. My gelding at 18 months old would do just what you describe, it took my friend 2 weeks. This gelding still follows me around like a puppy six years later. He also corrected a mule that was real bad about pulling, most people would say the a mule wouldn't change but I saw it. It took almost a month but that mule decided following pressure was better than the alternative.
My friend lives in S. California, I can put you in contact if you're near him. I live in W. Colorado and would love the challenge, we both are very reasonable in the compensation department.
Otherwise you need a trainer that has the ability, I'll go out on a limb and say 30 days max to correct you're gelding. Otherwise the trainer doesn't have what it takes for you're gelding.
Good day,
Alden
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Member:
Cowgrl
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Posted on Monday, Feb 14, 2005 - 6:11 pm:
My little mustang filly does this and I was told to put her in a rope halter and as soon as she made the decision to go, to haul her around to face you immediately. You have to do it as she's starting to turn to leave. Wear gloves and be prepared. Like Clinton Anderson says, he can outrun any horse that is facing him. I haven't had a chance to try this method yet but will be soon I'm sure.
The last time she did, I had her in the roundpen and made her move until she wanted to 'join up', however, after that episode, she wanted nothing to do with me.
Alden, want to come out to Washington sometime? 
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Member:
Geronimo
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 - 8:11 am:
Thanks for the advice. I'm willing to try anything to keep my horse and me safe. I have bought gloves and I've tried to run with him to catch him and pull him back. If I can get his neck turned, I can do it. He does this tuck and run thing and there hasn't been anyone who has been able to out run him if he gets the chance. Lot's of hurt fingers. As I said, he is better, doesn't run away as far anymore, but it is a problem and once he does it, he keeps trying to do it again.
I have also been told that my horse is bored and needs a full time job. I wish there was a working ranch that he could go visit! Does anyone know of such a place where they can take their horse and spend a week or two on a cow ranch?
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 - 8:51 am:
Can you somehow predict where exactly he'll do it (at the pasture gate, for instance) or otherwise provoke this behaviour (pretend you're not paying attention, leading him away from where he wants to go etc) ?
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 - 9:26 am:
If I may guess, a horse that breaks away from his handler is almost sure to do it entering the pasture.
So here's a little setup that may help:
Before you bring the horse out, you tie a 20ft rope to the pasture gate. Make sure you fasten it to a very strong post. Stretch the rope on the ground towards the direction you'll be coming from. Attach a strong link on the free end of the rope and leave it on the ground.
Now put some gloves on and go fetch the horse. As you approach, you'll find the link on the ground some 20ft from the gate. Pick it up and fasten it to the halter as casually as you can. Hold the lead rope and the long rope together and lead your horse as usual through the gate.
When he breaks free, let him hit the end of the rope. If he throws a fit, let him blow the steam off, then go take him by the lead rope and lead him out again. Do not haul him in by the anchor rope. You need to pretend that this rope is not there and you don't know what happened.
Try one more time. If he breaks free again, take him by the lead rope, unfasten the anchor rope and lead him back to the box. End of lesson one, he lost his chance to be turned out for that day. Let him sleep over his achievement.
Next day, try again. Remember, only two runs a day.
It is important that the rope is no longer than 20ft or so. You do not want him to be at full speed when he hits the end of it.
Also, keep in mind that fighting a horse on a long rope is dangerous. As he takes off, the rope will be coming in from behind you, so mind your step and position. You do not want a leg caught in that rope.
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Member:
Thomboy
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 - 10:37 am:
I don't know where you live Lisa, but here in Texas there are many feed lots for cows. My horses will go work there when they need some tuning up in the cow department. If you are anywhere close, e-mail me and I will give you the name and number of the "cowboy boss" on one of these lots. They only charge about $400.00 for 30 days.
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 - 10:57 am:
I know that if I tried Christo's suggestion, I would end up tangled in the ground rope . . . good thing I'm not a cowgirl . . . never have been good with ropes . . . My horse or I would end up hogtied . . . and the calves would skip away laughing.
Lisa . . . you say the horse no longer does this with the trainer . . . so, get the trainer to train YOU in how to anticipate and correct the horse. If a horse is going to dip his head and pull, there are hints just before he does it . . . subtle hints, like an ear cocked and the near eye looking away from you . . . There are many horses who will try to dip their noses and "run" when being led, especially if they are being led past grass.
There are two things going on here . . . One: the horse is not giving to pressure. [There are some very good exercises for this. Check out Clinton Anderson's methods. John Lyons has a good exercise for teaching a horse not to pull when tied . . . slip the lead over a strong, smooth post or hitching rail, and gradually take the slack out of it. If the horse doesn't come toward the pressure and decides to pull, keep study tension on the rope as long as the horse pulls (it's okay for the rope to slip away from you as long as you keep steady tension) and as soon as the horse puts slack back in the rope, i.e. comes toward the pressure with his nose, then put some slack in it on your end, too . . . and then repeat . . . Repeat from all different angles, so the horse feels the pull from all directions and learns to give to pressure no matter where it is coming from.]
Two: Your body language may be giving the horse permission to pull. [A limp arm and low hand can be interpreted by the horse as permission to lower his head. Try holding your arm in an "L" position with your hand holding the lead rope opposite the horse's nose/jaw. Leave at least an 8" loop in the rope between your hand and the horse's face. Lock your elbow and be prepared for the horse to pull as you start leading. If you suspect ANY "leaving" by your horse (even leaving in his mind) then give the horse a verbal cue to pay attention to you. Get and keep his attention on you. I have a very wonderful, but very strong-willed pony who can drag anyone, but over time, he has learned to stay with me whenever he bumps into the end of the lead. I use an ugly-sounding "aaach!!" whenever I think he is THINKING of going his own way, and that startles him and puts his focus back on me. His actions follow the old adage, "Give them an inch and they'll take a mile." If that stinker of a pony gets any hint that the human next to him or on his back is not focused on HIM, he'll take advantage every time."
I've said too much here shen, quite simply . . . I think the issue is like most training issues. Our horses reflect us . . . If we train ourselves, we can train our horses.
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 - 4:03 pm:
Addendum:
Be sure you aren't beginning the leading by PULLING the horse. His instant reaction will be to pull back. Be sure the loop of leaDrOpe between your hand and the hardware has slack in it. Give a verbal cue for the horse to put his attention on you, and walk forward confidently with your eyes on where YOU want to go, not on your horse. Ideally, you want the horse to lead with your shoulder, not from a pull on the lead. If you are hesitant, your horse will read that and take advantage since he's all ready developed the habit of leading you. With your elbow locked, when he hits the end of the lead, from trying to pull to the side, keep your weight back and reprimand him with your voice and JUST KEEP FOCUS on where you want to end up. Move ahead in confidence. There will be times when he'll think he has won, but don't give up . . . just keep going forward . . . and don't lose your sense of humor. He's just acting like a spoiled child who keeps trying to get into the cookie jar. If you say, "No cookies!" then KEEP saying it, and don't give up. He'll finally figure out that you really mean it and will give in . . . and will probably try to wheedle something ELSE from you in a different way . . . Just know what YOU want and go for it.
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Member:
Geronimo
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 16, 2005 - 10:02 am:
Thanks for the wonderful information. I'm going to try some of these ideas. He does not take off when coming out of his stall or even into a pasture or arena for some exercise. He will turn and face me after we walk into an area. I can say that once I untie him him in the turn out, he takes off, but not without kicking at me. It's quite deliberate sometimes. Sometimes I may be giving him a sign to take off because I am anticipating that he will throw a kick at me. It's frustrating. As far as pulling away, it is worse when he is around grass, definately. And, yes sometimes I know when he is going to try to pull away. We do lots of circles when that happens, but now I'm going to try to make him do more backing up and try the L position. I can see we also need more training for his response to pressure. He does respond great in the arena, but not in the open. I'd be happiest person in the world if I could just get my horse to walk with me without loosing him.
Melissa, I live in Northern Cal,in Auburn. I would love to have that opportunity.Thanks anyway!
Lisa
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 16, 2005 - 3:50 pm:
Hi again, Lisa,
The picture is more complete now. I believe Holly's suggestions are ideal for what you describe.
It may take a bit of time, but good horses and good horsepeople don't happen overnight!
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