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Discussion on Horse kicks at me while longeing
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Member:
heidim
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 17, 2008 - 1:42 pm:
Okay, remember me? I do not own a separate corral, paddock or round pen, and so I am limited to working with my 3-year-old in our one and only fenced pasture or in my sloped backyard with no fence. Today, I opted to stay in the pasture. It doesn't really matter because I experienced something similar in the backyard a few months ago. No matter where I work him, Coyote can see and hear his stablemates nearby. Anyway, last fall I was longeing this gelding. He was irritated about being away from his pseudo-mother. I admit I was pushing him some, keeping him working longer than usual. I let him be irritated and kept longeing him. He suddenly kicked out at me, and made a run for it. I was able to do the ten-second rule thing sort of and returned to something we'd practiced earlier (backing) to get him to mind me again. Today, I did more backing and then moved onto simple longeing. He didn't kick out at me, but I could tell we were back at the same place as he tried to rush to get back to the herd. Longeing is nothing new for us. His stablemates are always nearby and he'd rather be with me than them. Please, please, please suggest options other than separating him while training him. I just don't have the facilities to do that. I'm sure part of the problem is not having worked with him in so long. It can be especially challenging to train in Minnesota over the fall and winter with deer hunting season October - November and then the cold winters. Today, it is 5 degrees out, breezy and icy. I'd like to continue with him even now though so I'm that much farther ahead once spring comes.
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Member:
heidim
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 17, 2008 - 1:45 pm:
Correction to the previous entry: "...he'd rather be with them than me."
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 17, 2008 - 4:25 pm:
Hello Heidi,
Wonder if you could post some photos of your place (pasture and anything else). There are some very creative minds on these boards.
I'd be tempted, if possible, to tie his buddies to the fence and work him as close to them as was safe. As it starts to be work (a short period, because he's so young) I'd stop, pet him, and lead him a short distance away for a treat: food, petting, whatever he likes.
Bring him back to his buddies for more work, then away with you (maybe only 10 steps at first) for his reward.
You want this future trail horse to get the idea that is easier and more fun to come with you than stay with them.
Sound possible?
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Member:
heidim
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 17, 2008 - 5:16 pm:
Elizabeth, my fence is electric, so not possible to tie them inside the fence. It would be far easier to tie HIM to the hitching post outside the fence. Would it help if I fed him there? That's very doable, and it might feel like more of a reward for him. I'm open to other ideas as well.
It would be tough to post photos due to the placement of trees. However, here is a short description. Our house backs up to about three acres of yard, sloped and unfenced. That pours down into our pasture, which is also hilly. There is one flat place at the bottom of the pasture, but no one can see me from there due to the trees and so I don't feel safe if anything should happen. I do have two hitching posts on each side of our barn (formerly a pig barn). Crazy as it sounds, the best place I've found to work my horses is in the middle of our wide gravel road. Very few cars go down it, and the few that do give them exposure to traffic. With Coyote so attached to the mule, I do have concerns about him going ballistic having her completely out of sight. I took him into our one box stall about a year ago, and he went crazy. I've since practiced with him by walking him down the aisle in the middle of the barn but that's not keeping him there very long. One more thing about the road: at this time, it is hard-packed snow and so quite slippery.
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Member:
alden
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 17, 2008 - 9:36 pm:
Heidi,
I say work through it as you are doing. My mentor would always said when I was having trouble keeping the attention of the trainee, "if your gonna ride in a vacuum then train in one" The point is there will always be something to distract your horse whether riding or not, so you have to train them to pay attention in any situation. Not an easy task 
Good day,
Alden
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Friday, Jan 18, 2008 - 3:08 am:
Heidi, with electric fences and removable poles you can make wonderful lungerings and they usually will not try to get trough that. With young horses I often take mummy or a friend in with them and have both of them working free around me, at the end of the session[short] I put the young one with the others give him a treat then feed the nanny with a bucket alone in the lungering. After the young one is comfortable I do it the other way around then start in walk a few exercises with the 'prospect' alone etc.
Granted it takes a lot of time and I am often laughed at but with large paddocks in between other horses I prefer to be as prudent as I myself feel comfortable with.
Jos
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Member:
heidim
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Posted on Friday, Jan 18, 2008 - 6:11 am:
These are all great points and ideas. I still have the standing problem of Coyote making a break for the other horses while lungeing. Positive reinforcement with treats is fine, but I can still see him wanting to go back to his buddies after the treat are down the old hatch and he has to get to work. What can I do to get his attention and respect while I'm in the middle and he's at the end of the line? I see this as a form of herd-boundness but off his back rather than on. I looked through past articles and threads but didn't find anything on this subject. If I missed one, please let me know where to look.
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Member:
dtranch
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Posted on Friday, Jan 18, 2008 - 8:45 am:
Heidi ...
I ditto Alden's comment about working in a vaccum. Your horse needs to understand how to work and focus on you regardless of the distractions. I work my horses in the pasture and barnlots regularly. I figure if I can get them to cooperate there, they will be much better everywhere.
First of all, how are you lunging. I use what I call sending exercises with lots of direction changes and turns on the forehand and turns on the haunches .. with energy. Also, up and down transitions. When the horse loses focus on me, simply give the lead a firm tug to bring head back to you. Each and every time he looks away or pulls on the lead, tug again. When he kicks out at you, I immediately make a "shhhhhh" sound and transition up for a very short time, then I stop and reward him and let it all sink in. Then we go back to our exercises as if nothing happened.
As for the distraction of other horses, I help the horse understand that he can rest when away from them, and work while near them. For instance, if you are lunging in a circle with horses on one side, let your horse choose to stop for rest on the side away from the other horses. If he tries to stop near the horses, drive him off and let him stop on the opposite side. When he stops on the opposite side, reward and let him relax for a while.
Eventually, your horse will understand. You can do these "sending" exercises anywhere you have some open space .. no need for round pen or arena.
Good luck with your project.
DT
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Member:
terrilyn
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Posted on Friday, Jan 18, 2008 - 8:49 am:
Heidi, how long is the line you are working him on? My daughter had her finger nearly taken off her hand when she began working a very fresh, new two-year-old on a lunge line in our back yard. Because the line was so long, he had enough room to gain momentum. Unfortunately, she had the line wrapped around her hand...even though it was just one wrap, it was enough. I start work with a green horse on a 14' line and stay out of kicking range and use a "carrot stick" as an extension of my arm. It is much easier to maneuver them on a shorter line until you are confident that they can progress to a longer one.
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Member:
imogen
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Posted on Friday, Jan 18, 2008 - 8:58 am:
According to Mrs Holstein, a well-known dressage trainer in Ireland, you can actually use 3 crouching sheepdogs as a lunge-ring fence (she says she has seen it done...) but in the absence of cooperative canines, what are you doing to mark out a square or round space eg electric fence, barrels and timber etc?
All the best
Imogen
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Friday, Jan 18, 2008 - 10:58 am:
 Boy Imogen would I love to see that done! How much would I be able to do with one Dobie and one spaniel? Hmm come to think of it I suppose Margot will lunge the dogs
Jos
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 - 4:31 pm:
Reward him when he focuses on you and make him work harder when you loose it. Don't use treats, reward with rest.
Using either a stick or a twirling rope, you need to teach him to move his hindquarters away from you. Showing you his rear is disrespectful and his way of saying "poo on you lady". Teach him at a stand still that when you point your stick at his hindquarters he needs to step away. If he does not, then tap him with the stick. If he still does not move, tap harder. Count 1. . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4, then increase the pressure and begin at 1 again. Being rhythmic with the stick helps him learn to step before the pressure increases.
Teaching your horse to yield his hindquarters is basic respectfulness training. Get him more respectful and listening to you so he accepts you as leader rather than his buddies.
Good luck,
Linda
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 - 6:34 pm:
I thought when Moose turned his butt to me he wanted me to scratch it! Man he's in trouble now!!!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 - 6:58 pm:
Gosh if one of my horses kicked at me while longeing, he pretty much would think he was going to die a very very painful death. I just won't tolerate bad behavior like that. Then go back to longeing .
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