|
|
Discussion on Research Study: Comprehension of human pointing gestures in horses
|
| Author |
Message |
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Thursday, Mar 6, 2008 - 11:10 am:
Here is another interesting study of horse learning and behavior. Though a little difficult to understand basically they are saying horses understand when you touch or point to an object when you are pretty close to it. But when an object was pointed to from a distance they were unable to train horses to understand what it meant. I cannot come up with a way in which this effects training as we don't typically "point" in horse training but it may give clues on new and different techniques to train horses...any ideas?
DrO
Anim Cogn. 2008 Feb 5;
Comprehension of human pointing gestures in horses (Equus caballus).
Maros K, Gacsi M, Miklosi A.
Department of Organic Agriculture and Animal Welfare, Szent Istvan University, Pater Karoly u. 1, 2103, Godollo, Hungary,
Twenty domestic horses (Equus caballus) were tested for their ability to rely on different human gesticular cues in a two-way object choice task. An experimenter hid food under one of two bowls and after baiting, indicated the location of the food to the subjects by using one of four different cues. Horses could locate the hidden reward on the basis of the distal dynamic-sustained, proximal momentary and proximal dynamic-sustained pointing gestures but failed to perform above chance level when the experimenter performed a distal momentary pointing gesture. The results revealed that horses could rely spontaneously on those cues that could have a stimulus or local enhancement effect, but the possible comprehension of the distal momentary pointing remained unclear. The results are discussed with reference to the involvement of various factors such as predisposition to read human visual cues, the effect of domestication and extensive social experience and the nature of the gesture used by the experimenter in comparative investigations.
|
Member:
zarr
|
Posted on Thursday, Mar 6, 2008 - 2:20 pm:
On the science channel/ or close relative they had a study with dogs and it turned out they use fast mapping like humans when they learn. We had thought we were the ONLY ones who learned this way. If you show a baby a pic of an elephant and a cow then add a goat and ask for the dog the child uses fast mapping and comes up with goat! Dogs it turns out learn the same way if not better. They also respond to pointing even if it is only the eyes of the trainer pointing!
We are just now reaching beyond old thoughts and learning how other species in interpret our world.
I can back my horse up rather far stop her and give hand signal to raise one hoof then the other and then ask her to cross right over left or left over right and lift each again,this is done from a ways away and with no halter or lead. I've asked her to come part way back stopped and done it all again plus complete turns! Does this count? Cindy
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Thursday, Mar 6, 2008 - 4:06 pm:
Oddly enough my 2 geldings respond to pointing. I usually have to snap my fingers to get there attention then point. Actually I did that to my arab gelding last night, I moved where I usually feed hay and he went to the wrong pasture. The other 2 were still finishing their mush in the lean-to.
I snapped my fingers and pointed to the gate to the other pasture and off he went. At the time I wondered how he knew how to follow my point, (sure beats chasing them) But I have always done this since I've had them and I guess it's a matter of conditioning. If I didn't snap first I don't know if they would follow my point or not. Like Cindy's horses I can snap and point the geldings just about anywhere. Funny thing is the mare does not respond to this at all?
|
Member:
imogen
|
Posted on Thursday, Mar 6, 2008 - 5:47 pm:
I don't think this works with thoroughbreds. They are too silly. From practical experience draft horses will do almost anything for food and respond readily to "it's over here" cues including pointing.
Thoroughbreds are too concerned with what other horses might think of them and are usually too distracted with possible slights from other horses to concentrate for long enough to receive the "pointing" signal. They all use their noses more than eyes regarding location of food down at ground level anyway I think.
Imogen
|
Member:
terrido
|
Posted on Thursday, Mar 6, 2008 - 7:51 pm:
Hmm well my horses must be exceptions then. My Friesian doesn't follow general pointing well, unless directed at her, but my Thoroughbred will follow the general direction of my pointing at something. Will agree he is silly, goofy is more like it. But if I point or indicate a place to "look" he will look even at a distance.
|
Member:
imogen
|
Posted on Friday, Mar 7, 2008 - 3:55 am:
Possibly this is an interesting insight on the humans, that we persist in trying to communicate by pointing even where we have experience that it is unlikely to work!
I think it's hard to separate pointing from making "it's over here" noises which I think we probably all do as well and which certainly get a field horse's attention. The traditional cattle call "Ho... ho... ho..." is used a lot with horses here and most will come running as soon as they hear it.
Imogen
|
Member:
ajudson1
|
Posted on Friday, Mar 7, 2008 - 6:52 am:
I have a distinct whistle and call I use for the horses. And I always point and say "go" or "out" or "stall" depending on what I want. When they got out a few days back, my whistling and calling got them back to the yard, and pointing to the back barn door in they went. No feed rattling in cans. I've always believed they respond to many things we do and we are the ones who don't give them enough credit. Like awhile back the discussion on horses watching other horses to learn. I've seen that in action too. Our escape artist mare taught her colt to open gates and stalls.
Of course, it does depend on the horse as they all have different personalities and learning curves. I find the curious ones are the best at learning human cues. With exceptions of course; the above mentioned mare was very aloof, but she was very smart, just watched from a distance.
I think I can point and say "house" from a farther distance with my dogs than my horses for sure, but I've never tried saying "barn" from a great distance. Will be interesting to see if they can learn to go where I point from other distances.
|
Member:
frances
|
Posted on Friday, Mar 7, 2008 - 9:01 am:
Imogen I so agree about thoroughbreds being silly and "too concerned with what other horses might think of them and usually too distracted with slights from other horses to concentrate.."
That's it, that's it exactly! You put it perfectly.
|
Member:
zarr
|
Posted on Friday, Mar 7, 2008 - 11:15 am:
Interesting stuff! I have my one mare who probably has a high horse IQ as she is also trained verbally and knows several not so normal horse commands! The MFT mare is learning the same way, but the mustang learns by watching others to the point I'm unaware he has learned something til as I am working with another Whiskey repeats what is going on all by himself! Our arab gelding I think knows all this but doesn't want to be bothered!
Have used the same sign language that people train deaf dogs with on my horses and it has been very successful. The story of different breed reactions too how many it takes to change a light bulb seems to fit rather well  . Tried Ellie yesterday and our arena is over a 100 feet long and I can back her almost to the end and she does her thing the spanish walk in place, crossovers more back and complete turns. She will also go where pointed at a strong canter but she is alone in this one. Kinda neat what they all do! Cindy
|
Member:
lhenning
|
Posted on Friday, Mar 7, 2008 - 11:21 am:
Cindy, a good test to this theory might be for you to back up and continue using the hand signals. Find out how far away you have to get before the horse stops responding.
I frequently use hand signals up close, where first to mind is sending and directing on a lunge line. However, I cannot think of situations where I use hand signals from a great distance. Maybe that is because, as the article indicates, it is of no use. Could this be because the eyesight of a horse is not fine-tuned enough to pick up such detail?
|
Member:
terrido
|
Posted on Friday, Mar 7, 2008 - 12:31 pm:
Linda, Actually I find the opposite to be true. My horses notice even slight movement quickly even at great distances.
|
Member:
zarr
|
Posted on Friday, Mar 7, 2008 - 7:22 pm:
Took Ellie out of arena and she will back up til sometime tomorrow and still respond to what I ask, but I think she is very atuned to me as she doesn't do that well with others? Have to agree with Terri. I live at the edge of wide=open and my horses often go on point and it takes us a great deal of searching to spot what they see. Sometimes a plastic bag on sagebrush, coyotes,loose dogs, blowing tumbleweeds and one time a golden eagle! But then I read an article that horses did not hear well and that at least for all of mine is a BIG joke! Cindy
|
Member:
ilona
|
Posted on Tuesday, Mar 11, 2008 - 3:04 am:
Late to discussion, as usual.
My one TWH definitely responds to pointing, but I do believe this is due to consistent repetition. I do, however, believe that horses use fast mapping as a learning tool in their survival toolbox.
|
|
|
