|
|
Discussion on Leading Problems
|
| Author |
Message |
New Member:
las21202
|
Posted on Saturday, Mar 15, 2008 - 4:28 pm:
I have an almost three year old PMU gelding. I have had him since he was 6 months old. He was recently confined to stall rest for 8 weeks after his testicles were removed from his abdomen. He is allowed to be walked daily. He has been leading since he was a baby and is generally a good horse. He has not started under saddle or been bridled (I had a baby this year ... we are a bit behind).
My problem is that he is now being truly awful about leading. He is crowding my space, head butting, chewing on the lead rope and bucks and rears. He is on a mild tranquilizer for the duration of his stall rest. I am not concerned so much with the bucking and rearing as it seems to be a result of his stall rest, but the other vices are new. Any helpful information would be appreciated.
|
Member:
tbowner4
|
Posted on Saturday, Mar 15, 2008 - 9:53 pm:
Leigh: The behaviors that you are explaining is normal after surgery and being kept from exercise.
My filly started doing the same things as yours; however, you don't want him to develop a habit of it. I stopped the head tossing by using a rope halter that does not require but a tap with the little finger to remind that the behavior was unacceptable while keeping the lead directly under the head but loose and not too tight. I stopped the biting by doing the same, a tight hold will cause them to do the same thing due to pain from constant pressure, and additionally placing my thumb and nail on thumb directed toward the area that she would bite toward thereby hitting her on the check with my thumb. She stopped after only a couple of times. Keep him out of your space by again not keeping a tight hold but enough to control and use your elbow, arm held out and he will touch it and keep off you. reminder to keep a straight loose hold near the neck under the jaw or beside it--depending on where he needs the reminder. Make sure that you hold the lead away from his mouth and ability to get hold of it till he learns not to get it. Use the thumb illustration also in that area. Just make sure that you don't use too much pressure but not loose either. Too much constant pressure will cause this as well as too loose a lead, do a give and take , release of pressure for reminders and don't hold a constant pressure on his head or face. The tranq will help till you can get the exercise down to where he won't be so wound up. The rearing and bucking will cease once you are able to walk him everyday.
One technique to stop rearing and bucking is to keep feet moving, do circles with a gentle tap tap on the lead (with rope halter) while gently walking around with the lateral or vertical bend, not tooo much and very gently to bring down and walk it out. Too strong and he will flip on you.
Hope this helps some. Good luck
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Sunday, Mar 16, 2008 - 8:35 am:
Hi Leigh, OandT is right stall rest will do that to the best of them especially as young as your horse is. If the above suggestions don't work I would use a stud chain...if you know how to use one. In the right hands they are not cruel, but can help maintain some control and get their attention.
I had a couple young TB's on stall rest, they were aced for their handwalking, but still carried on. Leaping through the air, bucking, and rearing. The stud chain worked in keeping me safe and them from reinjuring themselves.
|
Member:
terrido
|
Posted on Sunday, Mar 16, 2008 - 12:56 pm:
Hey Leigh, I agree with OandT as well, mostly. Use a rope halter they do place enough pressure in the right places when you need, as long as the rope isn't too thick. ;] I'd also carry a dressage whip, or if you have a Parelli or other's 'stick' carry that. Sorry I am not a fan of stud chains, and know that you never need one. And should never need one.  (training)
Loose line, not held tight or too close to head, and not so loose you cannot grab it to make it tight quickly. A tight hold just upsets them, an dif too loose your timing won't be as sharp.
If he crowds you, use the whip/stick and back him up a few steps. Lower the tone of your voice a little, firmly say something like "BACK" or whatever command you use. A good initial "no" on any unwanted action tends to help at least get their attention, or say his name.
Just don't allow him to crowd you or rush past you, etc. Firm hold on the line, maybe a sharp pull downward then instant release, and ask him to back right away and quickly.
If he doesn't just back up, face him (like your left shoulder to his jowl, use the whip/stick and tap his chest between his forelegs, or tap his left foreleg canon area, stomp your feet loudly as you walk into him. Give him the command while you do this.
Be consistent, be firm, make him back a few steps. Then allow him to just stand and think for a moment before walking on again.
I also find holding an intention that they WILL do as I ask helps. ;)
Some will continue to test what they can get away with (like any teenager) for quite a while, and some will simply say 'Oh this is what you want, ok, no problem, I can do this.' and will be fine very quickly.
And yes the "antics" is due to being pent up for so long, I would just allow it, not much you can do to prevent it really. Well if you have room, and ca, turn him out first for a few minutes to get his ya-ya's out and then take him for his walk. At which point you can certainly "ask him to walk nicely".
As always when training (be it horse, dog, etc.) be consistent, be fair, and use good timing and clear commands, signals and be as firm as you need to be. He has to know you mean it, each and every time. Can't let him get away with it even once or you will just confuse him. This means every moment you are with him, no crowding you is allowed, even when grooming, picking feet, feeding, anytime.
And beginning his work at age 3 is not late to me, it's still about a year early!! I don't start until they're about 4, real birthday day of being 4, not the usual way most count horse years (as jan 1).
Heck they're not done growing until they're 8, most of the spine cannot support weight until age 4 anyway, and the 'brain fairy' doesn't arrive until about age 8 too. ;) You'll do fine.
Have fun
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Sunday, Mar 16, 2008 - 1:21 pm:
Just to clarify stud chains in the right hands are not a bad thing. Honestly I don't think it is fair to start training a horse when he is being stall rested. Most just aren't in the right frame of mind, and you could risk re-injury to the horse or yourself. OR a fight you are not ready to handle...stall rested horses (especially after awhile) are just not able to handle some of that energy and it can get dangerous FME. Not all but a good many!
If this horse was older and had some training on how to handle his energy it would be different...maybe.
My horse is trained to Parelli level 2 and I WOULD expect him to behave...but don't think he would if he had been stall bound for a few mos.
A stud chain can offer a little control and attention until the horse is in the "right mind" to be trained....Again in the right hands.
|
Member:
paardex
|
Posted on Sunday, Mar 16, 2008 - 2:24 pm:
To be honest I've used a bit on very young unruly horses[they can't help themselves imo after being locked up for a while] and agree with Diane: in the right hands stud chains bridles etc. can be used without being bad or cruel.
There is one thing I would like to mention though even if whatever you use in situations like this is BAD it is to me preferable to the horse getting loose. There are situations in which you have to choose the lesser of two evils. And handwalking in this situation[had a horse in the same situation big 3 year old KWPN gelding late castrated because we kept waiting for his testicles to get down] is neccesary and unpleasant[at least I found it unpleasant the horse loved it]
Good luck and decide in your situation which advise fits your situation most.
Jos
|
Member:
ynotgold
|
Posted on Monday, Mar 17, 2008 - 2:14 pm:
Stud chain, dressage whip, rope halter, you have to use what works best for you. You can't compromise your own safety. I had to hand walk my three year old after colic surgery for four months! It was a nightmare and I dreaded every time I took him out that he would freak out, cause a scene, hurt me or himself. I used a stud chain because it was the only way I could control him. I made sure it was high enough on his nose so not to injure his nasal bones. I tried Resperine, ace, Fluphenazine,natural calming stuff and nothing worked. Turnout, eventually when he was ready, was the only cure unfortunately. A lot of people have a lot of opinions and I had to deal with every one but no one can truly understand what you are going through unless you have been there, every day dealing with your bundle of energy with hooves flying at you. Good luck.
|
Member:
jowidner
|
Posted on Monday, Mar 17, 2008 - 11:20 pm:
Leigh, I agree with Christine, you'll just need to experiment and see what works best for your situation. The main thing right now is safety for you and your horse.
A few years back my horse had to endure an extended period of stall rest with hand walking after surgical repair of a fractured foreleg. It was one of the most nerve-racking experiences of my life. He was six years old at the time and had excellent ground manners, but after weeks of being cooped up he was a handful and those nice manners were no where in evidence. Every time out I feared that he would re-injure the leg because he would still leap around despite sedation and my best efforts to keep him calm.
The good news is that we did get through that trying time. His leg healed nicely, we resumed ground work and his good manners returned. Come to think of it, I did get my first grey hairs during that time...
My only additional suggestions would be to control his environment as much as possible to eliminate extra stimulation. I'd also stay in an enclosed area in the event that he would get away from you. Although in general I think that finesse and timing are more important than brute strength, in situations such as this it can be great to have a big strong guy (who understands horses of course) help out. Hang in there and best of luck to you and your young horse.
|
Member:
alden
|
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 19, 2008 - 11:32 pm:
May I suggest that you can work off a lot of energy by exercising his mind before ever leaving the stall. Start with lateral flexing, both sides, for say ten minutes. Ask for perfection but reward effort, it won't take very long to achieve that perfection. Another benefit to lateral softness is it's nearly impossible for them to pull on you if their soft.
Then throw in pivots, first on the rear, one step at a time at first then work through quarter, half then full circles. Once he has that down pat start him pivoting on his forehand. Same drill one step at a time.
Lots of backing in between these exercises will also help drain energy. If your not familiar with exercises there's several good DVDs by the likes of Clinton Anderson.
The best thing about exercising his brain when he's fired up, is when his not fired up he'll be an angel and all you're friends will be green with envy
As for stud chains I don't even use them on my studs, no need because they know what I expect of them. And I'll bet your gelding doesn't get any more excited than an Arabian stallion with an eager mare under his nose
Good day,
Alden
|
|
|
