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Discussion on Strengthening back/top line
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Member:
mandrie
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 10, 2008 - 6:08 pm:
My saddlebred gelding, 5yr old in May, has a longer back. Does anyone have suggestions for exercises to strengthen his back muscles, top line? We have been doing the belly lifts. He is still green under saddle, and can't maintain a rounded frame yet, but making progress on the lunge with side reins.
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 10, 2008 - 6:28 pm:
Marieanne, little by little is the key... you can't expect him to be able to hold himself up in self carriage just going under saddle... So be happy with the progress you are making..
In simple words do lots of transitions from walk / halt -- walk/trot/walk asking for him to stay in contact with your hands/ seat while doing them.. .. Ask him to push off rather then drag you thru the transitions.. Lots of breaks.... this is very tiring.. and can be very tedious for you...
Have fun...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
terrido
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 10, 2008 - 6:56 pm:
There are lots of great ways to help him develop topline muscles, but they all take time of course. He's going to have a hard time at first cause those muscles aren't there, so my first recommendation is to work him in short sessions until his strength builds, because this can be really intense work.
Personally I would get rid of the side reins. You want him to move himself, not have something artificial "position" anything. They would hinder his proper development at this stage. Just my opinion, I never use any 'devices' on longe. The HORSE has to move. haha
I would begin his development on longe only until he's got good back muscle to carry weight happily. again, just me.
Basically to build topline, the neck must stretch out and down, from the base of the neck. This allows the hocks to become more active in trot. And this is where then he can begin to build good muscle strength. Yes transitions will help, walk and trot, he will find this way of going difficult at trot initially, may want to break to canter when it's really hard, or slow to a walk. Allow either walk or canter for a bit, then ask for trot again.
A good test is when you can influence a hind leg (either actually in either direction) for more activation without increase in speed.
Remember the hocks are directly connected to the poll. Until they are really active you will not have relaxation at the poll, back won't "come up" and into good use until this starts to happen. Best way and easiest for the out of shape horse is to go in a neck stretched out and forward means. You are looking for full engagement and he cannot engage if his back hollows. So if his nose comes up, his neck comes up, first task is to ask him to lower his neck again. This can come directly from the rear end easily by simply asking for more activity.
Course once he does this well enough, lowering of his neck, you can teach him a cue to do so. I use the longe whip tip. When my mare raises her head I raise the tip of the whip, as soon as she lowers I lower the tip. (Raised whip tip = driving her on forward.) She very quickly understood this so today on longe if she raises her head, up comes the whip tip (always pointed behind me! haha) and down goes her neck.
You need to then look for engagement of the topline muscles, and notice the throat area, it should eventually become nice and soft even jiggling like jello.
Then you will begin to notice that you can achieve "on the bit" posture without a bit just a cavesson and a line, nicely, quietly and easily. It comes, just takes time for the horse to build the right muscles and consistency in your longe technique of course.
Above all have fun! and give him plenty of time to build his strength. So how will you know he is strong enough? Well besides seeing the physical change in his back, on longe you should be able to have sustained working trot pace for periods of 15 to 20 minutes, easily, effortlessly. No asking to walk, no asking to canter! haha Always allow his mistakes, wait for him to relax again before asking him to come back into the trot or pace you were using.
I always use only walk and trot for this strength building.
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Member:
mandrie
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 10, 2008 - 8:45 pm:
Thanks for the feed back. Being a saddlebred, Robbie naturally has a higher head carriage, getting him to stretch down is a challenge. I have read the posts here on "long and low" but frankly don't yet have the hang of it. He is very sensitive to the whip, stops on a dime when I put it down, so I like the idea of using it to bring his head down. I do understand this is a long term project, I am hoping he is the horse to close out my riding life-thats why I want to do what I can to ensure we grow old together gracefully
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 10, 2008 - 8:54 pm:
If you walk him over low cavalletti in a relaxed way, he will naturally reach out to balance, and use his topline to carry himself over the obstacles. Start with one and add one at a time, no higher than 6", never more than 4 in a row. I have built many a topline with cavalletti and transitions-- they work, and the horses seem to enjoy them (I find they do not like the belly lifts much).
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Member:
mandrie
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 10, 2008 - 9:18 pm:
Yes, I do get nasty looks with the belly lifts-I was trying to ignore them. Re cavalletti, does anyone have an alternative to the manufactured x's -they seem kind of pricey to me. I was wondering if I could make something with pvc pipe-so that it would be lighter than wood? Elizabeth, when you start to work with your horses, how long each session do you work over cavalletti?
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 10, 2008 - 10:18 pm:
You can make poles out of 4" diameter PVC pipe with end caps and stuffed with wood scrap-- mine are made this way, and weigh about 12lbs. You can use cinder blocks (carefully) to support them, or anything really, as long as they have some reason not to roll away. Just bear in mind you are teaching your horse to step over something that looks a lot like the edge of many dressage arenas.... I also have used the benches from my picnic table laid on their side, in a pinch.
Gosh, how long. I guess when I'm doing this I ride over them 5-6 times and ask the horse to carry the posture forward for a few strides (increasing over time). Then I end over them as well.
The most most most important thing is to get the spacing on the poles right for your horse's gaits and the same between each one.
There are a lot of tricks with poles to help with rhythm and posture. I love them because the horse uses his body to solve a balance problem, and so the answer comes easier and is more correct than if he is just trying to guess at your aids.
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Member:
terrido
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 10, 2008 - 11:53 pm:
The stretching out on longe will come from behind. The more active his hocks become the more he will stretch out and down. It's a bit of an art, ;)
Under saddle you can use your weight on his forehand to ask him to lower his neck from the base of the neck. But until he has some topline I wouldn't spend much time on his back really.
Cavalletti is a good way also.
I have a Friesian mare and her neck set is upright, she likes to carry her head UP. asking her to lower and stretch was a challenge. Sometimes ya gotta train them to a high level to be able to get low level looks! haha (dressage teminology) never mind inside joke there. My girl had to be taught to lower her head and stretch her nose out. time and patience on longe, she got it. Like I said she learned the whip tip, and now all I have to do is raise the end a bit and her neck lowers. This gives me more access to her backend to activate it. *evil grin* She works hard on longe, let me tell you. haha
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Member:
green007
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Posted on Friday, Apr 11, 2008 - 6:49 am:
Go to a Jane Savoie clinic!!!! Or, at a minimum, you can borrow her DVDs from a friend or buy them. She uses the USDF training scale (which is also a great thing to try) but really breaks the training scale down into understandable pieces.
Step 1 is rhythm - if your horse is going too fast or too slow, you won't get long and low. Check your tempo and see if it makes your horse both engergetic and relaxed.
Step 2 is suppling - there are specific exercises you can do to "take his neck away from him" so he seeks and stretches into the contact instead of leaning on you. These involve using your arms and hands to soften him in the poll, but it doesn't mean riding from "front to back" because you already have a forward rhythm from step 1, right? If not, go back to step 1.
Step 3 is connection. Your horse has a nice forward rhythm and is softening in the poll. This is where half halting comes in, but it is more of a "half-go" in that the focus is adding even more legs while suppling the horse at the poll so that the horse works through his back and connects with the bit. If you do it right, the horse will stretch when you give your hands forward gently after the half halt.
I have been riding this way for many years but have always had a tough time explaining it to others so I suggested the clinic to an amateur friend of mine who was also having trouble with long and low. Auditing the Jane Savoie clinic helped her immensely. We audited in Maryland, but she is going across the country through the USDF adult clinic series. For more information, look here:
https://www.usdf.org/education/clinics/adult/index.asp
https://www.janesavoie.com/
For people who are reading this thread long after the Jane Savioe clinics are over, I am sure she is out there somewhere - just google her name or USDF adult clinics for help. She also has DVDs for sale that could help, though there is nothing quite like the live clinic as you get to see regular folks work through the problems.
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