This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Training, Behavior, & Conditioning Horses » Behavioral Problems » Behavior Modification, Conditioning, Desensitization, and Counterconditioning »
  Discussion on Is my horse insane? He's like Jekyll and Hyde
Author Message
Member:
Cmora

Posted on Wednesday, May 4, 2005 - 4:34 pm:

I bought a 3 year old TB gelding last year. He's off the track but never competed. Sold as "under saddle for 30 days, in-your-pocket personality, etc, etc. I had him a couple of months and just let him hang out in the pasture. I did handle him daily for grooming, etc. Long story short, I quickly determined he was a bit jumpy. I ended up afraid to tie him for fear something would spook him. I was trying to take him to a clinic and couldn't get him to load. It was all very discouraging. I have done a lot of ground work with him (parelli) since then and got him past the loading issue. We attended a 3 day Parelli clinic where he was a near perfect gentlemen in hand, in the barn, with the other horses and even did ok during the short riding part of the clinic. After the clinic I tried to ride him a few times but was uncomfortable on him so I decided to put him with a trainer for 30 days to have him accessed. It was a "cowboy trainer" but was assured by other clients of his that he was gentle. Well, I think the gelding came back a bit worse off than when he left. His ear shyness was back in full swing not to mention his jumpiness. I wasn't ready to give up on the horse so put him with a hunter/jumper trainer. He's been there for about 5 weeeks. Things were going FANTASTIC. He was sweet, well behaved, calm, going nicely under saddle, even jumping some X's! Everyone (including me) was assuming the cowboy and the TB just didn't get along. Now I think the horse is just plain wacked or something. I got a call from my hunter/jumper trainer last week advising that the horse was acting like a turd and that she did not ride him since he was acting so poorly on the ground. ie: spooking at everything on the way from his pasture to the barn....and she was back to square on on bridling him since he suddenly became violently ear shy again. And today, the trainer phoned to say that he was berserk. She put him in a stall to go get her gear and he started rearing repeatedly and spinning. Acting quote "like she was going to electrocute him or something"

What could possibly be causing these dramatic changes?
Member:
Chrism

Posted on Wednesday, May 4, 2005 - 5:39 pm:

Well, I really can't tell much from your post, other than a number of people have handled him, perhaps with a variety of training techniques, methods, philosophies.

3 yo is quite young in my book. I'd be tempted to put him out to pasture for a year and try again, as if he hadn't been started.

Or, I'd examine his handling/work schedule. He may have been upset because he was separated from the herd. Or, he was feeling pain with bridle (at 3 yo, he could have a cap or two left, or a wolf tooth), or pain from saddle - he is muscling up and filling out and it is now too narrow for example. It is tempting to push a horse that is kind and talented faster than his body can muscle up and condition for the work, too.

In any case, you may have be expecting too much out of him at too young of an age.

Or, he may not be a match for you.

Make a list of your goals for the horse and your riding abilities/skills. Then add what he is able to do and do reliably.

Then look at what you wrote hard and think about it. It could be a mismatch.

In the meantime, what works for me is to lunge a young horse before mounting and to use very consistent methods. Ideally, (I can't do this) you will work a young horse lightly 5 days a week and be very consistent in what you do and ask. You get off when he is going great and resist the urge to try one more thing. You add variety that he can accept - a trail walk around the farm, leading him through water, etc. You take it slow and easy. You praise a lot. You set the horse up so he can say "yes" all the time and you tell him he is the most wonderful creature on 4 legs. Even give him a bit of sugar when he is good.

I think he is telling you he is not able to do what he is being asked to do - but it may be because he is too young or something hurts or the rules keep changing and it is frustrating his young mind.

Just my two cents. I hope you are able to sort through it.
Member:
Chohler

Posted on Wednesday, May 4, 2005 - 7:07 pm:

Cheryl, at the barn I work at we have a mare that was like this. She went through two trainers before I decided I would just work her. She came back absolutely beserk, would shake like crazy. I don't think the trainers did anything wrong. She just didn't understand the rules and everything kept changing on her. As soon as the trainer thought she got something they would immediately go to something new.

These horses notice the slightest things even if we don't think anything is different. I keep notes of everything going on around me and the horse, down to gear and anything I can think of and I try to keep everything the same.

I found that she has to have structure. Even down to the time of day she is worked. I don't change the rules on her and she is getting better. When she accepts what I want fully I gradualy intoduce her to new stuff I don't immediatly go to the next step. I also have to heavily heavily desensitize this horse in the barn and out of the barn and i play a tape all kinds of noisy stuff on it when we are in the barn. I also work her in the round pen or on a lunge line before we get down to real work. I only do this everytime because it gets her mind leveled out and settled before we do work, it starts her to thinking before she acts. She is a horse that constantly has to be reminded to think instead of react.

On horses that are real spooky when tied I use a parker horse poll halter and a clinton anderson safty tie ring. I also cary a whip with me and i stand out of the danger zone and reasure the horse by rubbing her with the whip, and if she does spook I can make her go forward. I don't leave these kind of horses unatended when tied.

if your horse spooks from the pasture to the barn he needs to be worked on a line from the pasture to the barn.

The other thing is he might not be mentally old enough for this. I started my arabian filly at 3 and had to let her grow up, she mentally wasn't ready to work.

When the mare becomes beserk. I ask her to back up and go forward and the back up farther repeat a few times and then put her in the round pen and run some energy off and then I put her up, or i ask her to move on all sides and rub her with the whip and ask her to back up and go forward and back up farther and then I put her up, or if she is down right insane I put her up with no feed, just water. Then the next time I take her out I desensitize her in the area she was crazy last.

This mare can still be nuts, but she is getting better.

There can be all kinds of factors that are making your horse crazy, my bet is age and he needs structure. He is a reacting horse right now and needs to learn to be a thinking horse. But he is after all just 3. Christine has it right with the goals, this will help you immensly.
Member:
Cmora

Posted on Wednesday, May 4, 2005 - 8:44 pm:

Thanks ladies.
He is four now but you are both correct....still young. Perhaps he does need to get really, really comfortable with walk, trot, canter stuff
before he is introduced to jumps. Now that you mention this....his change in personality did come two rides after taking his first X.

And I am SURE the guy I had him with first was exposing him to way too many things. That may be why he never seemed to get one good day out of the horse.

Good food for thought. Thank you both for responding. I'll talk with the trainer in the morning and make some suggestions.

If anyone has addt'l thoughts/experiences - bring 'em on! I want to make it work with this guy but this is a new experience for me. I've worked with - and been around - many horses for years and never seen anything quite like this before. I'm puzzled.
Member:
Cmora

Posted on Wednesday, May 4, 2005 - 8:50 pm:

To Cheryl Hohler,
Just curious.....what is the purpose of putting the mare up without feed? That question sounds abrubt but it's not intended that way. But I am curious.
Does this somehow help her calm down?
Member:
Chohler

Posted on Thursday, May 5, 2005 - 1:37 am:

I feed 3 times a day and I usually feed after working the horse. She doesn't need to associate being totally insane with being put up and rewarded with food.
Alot of people don't like it.
But it works for me I also use it when training my shutzhund dogs. The get out of control they get disciplined and put up.

I don't do it all the time I just use it when the horse really has an episode so out of control i don't feel that I can work her through. I have only had to do it 2 times in 9 months. I just wanted to convey she is nutzo but it can be delt with. This horse has been through thorough physical exams, no problems.

Your boy sounds like he just needs time and stucture.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Thursday, May 5, 2005 - 7:13 am:

It is many times that a Thoroughbred's superior reflexes are put to thoughtless use and end up problematic.
TBs are bred to be explosive in their reflexes. They're very good at it and they enjoy it immensely. If you feed this natural inclination even a little bit, you can easily end up with more than you can handle.
One thing you never want to do with a TB is wind him up. Take him into a pen and do some tight patterns with sudden changes of direction or tempo, you'll see him next day all jumpy and itchy for more of that! Take him through a parcour nice and fast and tight, pressing him a bit before the jumps, and next day he'll want more! Race him a bit to take the edge off for tomorrow's competition and he'll surely trot in place when he sees you next morning!
So, I believe, you never ask a TB to do something fast. They like it too much. It is better to keep him in a smoothly running, kind of sleepy routine where nothing challenges his reflexes.
Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC