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Discussion on Introduction problems
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Member:
Tangoh
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Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 11:40 am:
Up until about a few days ago, all was quiet on the homefront.
Here's the Scenario:
We recently brought home our 9 year old dominant TWH gelding from 8 weeks of harness training. We turned him back into a large paddock with his 3 QH mares and after a little squealing and sniffing, everyone was reunited and it was apparent he had reclaimed his position as the dominant horse.
In the paddock beside all of this is a new 3 year old TWH gelding who had been successfully integrated with the mares while the 9 year old gelding was still away at 'driver training'. The 3 year old did not take over any dominant position, he is low man, but unlike the low mare who makes a point to stay out of trouble and hide whenever conflict arises, the new 3 year old has more 'presence' but knows his place in the pecking order under the other mares.
We pulled the 3 year old out of the herd when we brought the older gelding home, they could all visit him over a fence however. After a week we tried to put him in with everyone because nothing appeared to be happening across the fence.
The second we integrated the 3 year old all "H" broke loose. Extreme chaos! Everyone appeared to gang up on the new gelding and he was caught in the middle of what looked like potential disaster. Vicious kicking and biting and chasing, mostly inflicted by the older gelding, but his 'harem' joined in on the commotion also.
We were able to get him out into another adjoining paddock and turned the low mare in with him.
So now we have top gelding and top 2 mares together, and low mare and low gelding together.
We are going away this weekend and all horses will be going except for the top gelding. We're hoping he'll be lonely and looking for any kind of company when we get back Sunday night.
We are thinking that when we get home, we might separate the mares and put both geldings in separate pens also, but next to each other - keeping the mares furthest away from the top gelding. After a week of them being paddocked alone and over a fence from each other, we are thinking we'll try to turn JUST the two geldings together, keeping the mares basically out of sight in an effort to get the 2 geldings to bond.
I realize the older gelding will always be 'top dog' and will always keep the younger gelding on his toes, but that I can live with. We want these horses to live together. They will be pastured later this spring on 24 acres where there is room to run, but right now they are still stuck in dirt paddocks.
This older gelding is a completely different horse on halter or under saddle. I can ride him up to any gelding or any mare with no response from him.
It's hard to watch 2 horses duke it out. They are not evenly matched. The 9 year old is about 15.2 and very powerful, the 3 year old still looks like a gangly colt, although he is probably closer to 15.3.
I know it probably looks a lot worse than it actually is, but the older gelding even managed to take a chunk out of the new guy's nose while visiting over a fence. They are still just across fences from each other!
The new horse is low man, but he's extremely inquisitive and though I know he won't fight for supremacy he's no shrinking violet either.
Advise? Suggestions? Words of encouragement?
Life was sure easy when we only had 2 horses!
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 5:18 pm:
You've already found the solution, Sherri, I think you just need to carry on.
When you're back home, put another mare in with the newcomer. Leave the old gelding with the dominant mare.
After a couple of days put the dominant mare in with the newcomer, but give the older gelding one of the other mares so that he does not get wound up all alone.
After a few days, when the newcomer and the mares have worked it out you can add the older gelding.
The older gelding will attack the newcomer again, but the mares are less likely to join the commotion, so the newcomer will only have to deal with one horse. Additionally, if the mares do not join the chase, the older gelding will not be so enthusiastic about it so things will settle down a lot faster.
Putting the two geldings together after the old one has been alone for a couple of days does not sound like a good idea to me. He'll be bored and missing his friends. That's not exactly the time to throw in a newcomer he dislikes, he'll take all his frustration out on him.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 7:50 am:
I don't know Christos, many farms I know have more luck keeping the boys with the boys and the girls with the girls. In the wild lone males band together into easy going "bachelor bands" that would have never stood one another while in with a band of mares. There seems to be some additional herd dynamics added when you mix the sexes. After such a reaction though I don't know...Whatever done it needs to be watched carefully and if you do have a stable situation now perhaps the safest thing to do is keep the status quo.
DrO
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 8:51 am:
I don't know either, DrO.
I fully agree that boys with the boys and girls with the girls works the best most of the times.
However, since Sherri needs to put them all together and she managed a safe first step, my idea is to build on that.
If she manages to establish a herd with the weak gelding and the mares, introducing the strong gelding will be easier, I think, than introducing the weak one into an established herd with a strong male.
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Member:
Gillb
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 2:35 pm:
HI Sherri, I had a similar situation with mine. This is a bit long, sorry!
I had two gelding ponies who had been together a long time, one (the older) has always been herd leader. I got two young fillies who the older gelding hated on sight. I put them in two separate fields, geldings in one and fillies in the other. After a lot of chasing up and down the fence and face pulling, things settled a bit. I then put the younger gelding (a small pony) in with the fillies and left the older on his own but still in the next field. This worked well, and after a week I then put the dominant pony in with the others (not the other way round as I thought it not a good idea to put the newcomers into the dominant pony's field). There was a bit of threatening and posturing but all settled down and the dominant gelding bonded with the fillies, and the small pony was bottom of the heap.
A few months later I then got another young gelding, rising 2. My plan was to stable this gelding next to the dominant pony, and turn them out in a field together. They were fine stabled next to each other, even grooming one another over the door, but once in the field all was well for a little while, until the dominant gelding realised his 'girls' were on the other side of the fence and he went for the latest horse with a vengeance. This resulted in the horse jumping over the fence to get away.
The dominant gelding really meant business; he is a very strong stocky pony and the new horse a gangly leggy youngster so I could not put them together at that time. My plan was ultimately to have them all living out 24/7 as a herd. The new gelding made friends with the small pony so I then put these two together in a field and the dominant pony plus the two fillies in another.
Eventually I risked turning the newcomer and the small pony out with the other three, in a six acre field. I figured if he was threatened he would be able to get away. Everything was okay so long as the newcomer did not come near the dominant gelding and his harem, but if he put a hoof near he was chased away in no uncertain terms. This carried on for quite a while - over a month I would say, but gradually the chasing got less and the dominant gelding started to tolerate him.
I bought the newcomer in February and now they are all living mostly happily together, with only the occasional fall out (today for instance I found the new horse had jumped out of the field again!).
But this is just to say in my case, what looked like a hopeless case to start with, did turn out alright in the end. I feel the dominant pony was protective of his fillies and saw the newcomer as a threat to his herd's security. However now he knows the new horse has a place in the hierarchy (near the bottom!) he tolerates him.
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Member:
Tangoh
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 9:00 am:
Hi everyone,
Christos, I think the only part of my original story that you might have missed is that the new gelding has been successfully integrated with the mares while the older gelding was away at driving school and even still, the mares still got involved in the commotion when the older gelding took after the young one. Everyone seemed to be defending something!
We also just got back from a weekend where we took the 3 mares and the new boy to a natural horsemanship clinic. They were corralled in a fairly small pen - there were no wars. The mares have accepted the new young gelding just fine.
The older gelding was left home alone. When we got home last night we separated the girls into Paddock #1, new guy in Paddock #2, and old guy in Paddock #3. Everyone can see each other but only #2 (new guy) can visit over the fence with either the mares or the older gelding. These paddocks are all quite large, the largest being at least 2 acres.
Okay, seeing as you and Dr. O both have a little different ideas, here's another idea.
The horses are still on hay. They are longing for grass. After we ride we have a small 'grooming paddock' which is grassy and this time of year grass seems to be more immportant to them than just about anything.
What if we turned the two geldings out together in our larger 2 acre grass paddock for an hour or two each day? Is it possible the grass may preoccupy their minds instead of herd dynamics? It's been a long winter on hay. This would still be without the mares (male bonding time??) We'd take them off at night, and separate them for 2 reasons, firstly because we don't want them to be on grass for too long yet, it's a new pasture, very lush and secondly, the idea would be that they might associate this 'grass time' with being together?
If this worked, then I would introduce one mare back into the herd at a time, likely the low mare first which the new gelding is most bonded.
I can't wait for the 24 acres to be fenced!! A lot of this will be solved then I think with more room to ru
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Member:
Tangoh
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 9:06 am:
Gill,
Thanks for your story. It gives me hope that this can be sorted out. I really don't care how long it takes, I just want to keep everybody as safe as possible. We have lots of ways to separate these horses, it's only for management purposes that having them altogether would make it so much simpler.
Another question - is it a good idea for me to be in with the 2 geldings with a whip the first time we turn them in together in an effort to show them that I am the dominant member of the herd? I certainly wouldn't get in between them, because quite frankly, MY safety is #1 and if it's them or me to protect, it's definitely going to be ME!!! But I have heard when introducing 2 horses it can sometimes be helpful if there is a human at the end of a whip involved somehow. If anyone has heard this, I'm interested
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 9:30 am:
Yes, Sherri, I completely missed that part.
So, you're left with the only option of putting the two boys together. How it will work? Even they wouldn't know in advance, I guess.
Before moving to that, however, there's a good trick you can try if you have a round pen and you feel confident working three horses in it at the same time.
You simply put the two geldings and the dominant mare in the pen. Work walk and stop, one behind the other, in whatever order they choose. Whenever one misbehaves, it is trot two rounds.
This gives them a new problem that they need to work together to solve: You!
And there's nothing that bonds two horses faster than working together.
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Member:
Tangoh
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 10:03 am:
Christos,
Sounds like a great idea, but, no round pen yet. We're on a new acreage and though a round pen is on our list, it's not at the top.
What about some sort of riding together exercise? Would this have a similar effect as working together? I'm thinking likely not because they have no way to sort anything out themselves that way, the rider is in complete command then. We have ridden these 2 horses side by side and though the new horse is very nervous having the nose biter so close, the 'nose biter' is completely oblivious to him when we're riding, as he is to all horses.
We do have a small rectangular pen but I think it's still too big to work 3 horses in. I'd have to do a lot of running and I'm sure they'd find a way around me in a pen that size.
Any other suggestions?
From your posts though it sounds like I need to get the lead mare in with them too. The other 2 mares are insignificant as they have no relevant position to the situation
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 8:29 am:
Any kind of work together will speed up bonding, Sherri.
During riding, I'd have the younger gelding's rider vary the pace all the time, and I'd ask the older gelding to adjust without a cue so to always stay by the younger one's side.
This is fairly easy to do, you just correct him only when he does not adjust automatically, trying to avoid any other cues.
This will make him watch and match the younger one's "dictation" whilst he'd like to be the one "driving". I believe this is a powerful lesson for better manners towards other horses.
In the big pen, trying to find a way around you may be all the teamwork you need. You just want to give them a problem to solve. If that is finding a way around you, so be it.
It is not necessary to put the lead mare in too, I was only thinking that this way you may adjust everybody's attitude in one go.
Best of luck,
Christos
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Member:
Tangoh
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 9:27 am:
Thanks Christos. Might give it a try getting the 2 of them into the smaller rectangular paddock and giving them a task to figure out. When you say to have them try to find a way around me, I'm not sure I understand. Can you tell me exactly what you would do. This pen is about 80'x 30'. It is a 2 plank fence with electric wire running across the top and through the middle and there is a metal gate at both ends, just to give you a mental idea of what the space looks like. It is a dirt paddock. The only obstacle is at midway on the long side is half the watering bowl.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 2:03 pm:
Let's see...
I'd throw them all in the paddock, newcomer last. I'd ask them all to go to one end and behave themselves.
Whenever one misbehaves, they all have to run to the opposite side.
However, I wouldn't chase the newcomer, I wouldn't actually even look at him. If he chooses to stay put while the others run to the opposite end, I'd simply bring the others around to him. And so on if he switches sides.
I'd expect it to take them less than 10 runs to figure out that if they stay with the newcomer and behave themselves nobody has to run.
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Member:
Tangoh
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 2:39 pm:
Sounds doable, but what if the older gelding just takes to charging at him, and they both take off at a run......by their own choice, one in hot pursuit of the other, am I really going to be able to interrupt that behavior and stay safe??? Will a whip keep me out of trouble?
Do I sound a little chicken? 
Maybe if me and my husband were both involved somehow?
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 3:05 pm:
You'll need a whip and maybe a bucket of rocks - not to throw, just to make noise...you must keep their attention on you at all times. Try it with one first, then with the other, then together. Be sure to make them turn when you want them to and the more often the better when you are one on one.
IMO, it's too small of an area to put all of your horses in together at first, unless of course you've done this before. Start slow  )
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Member:
Tangoh
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 3:36 pm:
Hi Aileen,
I have to admit, I wondered about the bucket of rocks...until I read further! Sounds like a good idea.
I don't think I'd be very effective, would I, in a pen bigger than that with the 2 of them? Unless you're thinking I was going to put all 5 in there, which I wouldn't. This would just be to get the two geldings together, working on a problem..being me..as Christos suggested.
What about the idea of putting them out on a big grassy area together. Neither of them have had much access to grass yet this year. It's always a huge deal for them when they finally see grass after 6 months of dry hay. This area is about an acre in size but does connect with about another acre of dry paddock which the young one could escape to if necessary. Do you think munching on fresh new grass might be more desireable to the older gelding than munching on the young gelding?
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 3:49 pm:
Yes, I was thinking you would put all five of them in there...my mistake Eight legs are one thing...20 legs? Ummmm no, I was worried for your safety, I should have known Christos wouldn't have meant that
On the grass, yes it helps, but I've found that it really doesn't matter much if one horse wants to prove a point...but that's just my limited experience talking...I have four dominant geldings in my barn
I would try it in the pen first with the two of them, then see how it goes from there. It may just take some time.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 5:18 pm:
I am afraid this is not what you wanted to hear, but yes, I'd work all five of them in that paddock simultaneously.
The whip is handy to drive them around (less running) but it will not keep you safe.
The whip is extra security, but only if you already feel confident in what you're doing. If you're uneasy with the very thought of being in the paddock with them, the sight of them galloping at you while kicking and biting at eachother will most likely freeze you to the point that you'll forget you're holding a whip.
If you feel the least bit uneasy with being in this pen with five misbehaving horses, by all means do not do it. Not even with two.
Stick with tradition, put the two geldings in a big enough field so the newcomer can run to a safe distance and let them work it out themselves.
Being chicken or not is wrong thinking, Sherri. Training horses is not an exercise in bravery. Fear is a healthy thing, it means sense in your head. Don't go against it, you'll get hurt.
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 6:20 pm:
Christos, what if she rides one of the mares and herds them? Would that work the same way?
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Member:
Tangoh
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 6:22 pm:
Thanks for that Christos. My gut definitely tells me that I can't handle that type of scenario...all 5 horses that is. I love my horses, but I'm still Numero Uno, so if I had to leave them separated forever to preserve my safety, then so be it.
I do think that we can handle the two of them together. We actually were in the pen with the 5 of them when we did this the first time. It was a larger pen and we were both there, but without whips. We didn't expect what transpired and we did have to separate them without the aid of any whips and there were a couple times when I jumped into the feeder or up onto the fence. We will be more prepared this time and will only be working with 2.
I'll be entertaining your suggestion this weekend, which is a long weekend here. That way I'll have 3 full days to stay home and watch what goes o
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Member:
Tangoh
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 6:28 pm:
Hey Aileen,
Interesting idea. Might be a little safer, especially if I ride the lead mare?
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 6:38 pm:
Exactly...is she in shape? She might have to work pretty hard... Maybe have the both of you out there and take turns with horses to give them a break? I honestly don't know...just thinking. See what others say...
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 8:06 am:
I think that it is very difficult and very dangerous to attempt separating two fighting horses while mounted on a third one. You need great skill and a very well trained, agile horse to engage in the battle, and still, a thousand things can go wrong.
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Member:
Tangoh
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Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 8:44 am:
She is actually in very good shape Aileen and is level headed and works cattle extremely well. She wouldn't be difficult to control if the other 2 were sorting things out. It might be the answer.
I understand Christos what you're saying but this lead mare with my husband, not me, on her back could be the answer. I asked him about it last night and he didn't have a problem at all with trying it. I don't know that he would try to separate them with his horse, he would still be carrying a whip.
I know chasing horses is quite different from chasing cattle however, but he has ridden her before with loose horses.
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 10:32 am:
I don't know Sherri, if Christos is hesitant then it must not be a good idea...Since you have a three day coming up...why not start with what you all were discussing before I brought this up and see how it goes? I'd hate for you or your husband to get hurt because of my suggestion.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 12:00 pm:
If that's what you feel comfortable with, that's the way to go, Sherri.
I would not carry a whip, however, I find that applied from horseback it provokes kicking too easily.
A water gun or squirt bottle is much more efficient if there'a fight and a lot more fun. Just shoot them at the face, it ends the fight on the spot (works beautifully even with mature stallions in serious fights).
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Member:
Tangoh
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Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 12:53 pm:
I better get the video camera out! I think that would make for some pretty funny footage...big tough guy with a squirt gun! 
He actually doesn't think he needs anything. But then, he doesn't think there will be a fight with him on her back...we'll see. The dominant gelding and this mare have a lot of respect for each other. I'll keep you posted on how it turns out.
But like he said last night, who knows what will happen, we'll give it a try, it won't be more than a few seconds before we know whether to continue the exercise or not.
Last night I noticed that they were always together along the fence line, and Tango was not threatening to Teddy (the newbie) in the least. They seemed to be enjoying each other's company. Maybe putting them together will turn out to be a non-event. Sure would be nice.
It actually may not even happen this weekend, we just got almost an inch of rain, making the footing rather poor - we don't need that problem added to the scenario. We will wait for the paddocks to dry ou
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Member:
Tangoh
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 2, 2005 - 9:32 am:
Since everyone was kind enough to post so much good advice in this discussion I thought I should reciprocate with an update.
Well, basically turn-out 'turned out' to be a non-event. We turned the young gelding out onto a 10 acre pasture with the 4 mares who had been comingled with him successfully already and then let the big bad black alpha gelding out, who'd been deprived of green grass and female company for 3 weeks. He did have the young gelding to visit with over a fence.
He couldn't decide what he wanted more when we opened his gate to the pasture. Should he just put his head down and graze or should he deal with this new gelding? He chose the latter and immediately separated the young gelding and the low mare away from other 2 mares. He only chased him about 100 yards away in a pretty non-threatening manner and then went back to grazing with the two lead mares.
The young guy tried to get close a couple times, seeminly taunting the alpha gelding to chase him, as if he enjoyed teasing him, but he would always turn and run from the older gelding's threats. He does stand up for himself but still knows his place is outside of the main herd.
So basically now we have 2 herds, one with the alpha gelding and the 2 lead mares, and the other herd which consists of the young gelding and the low mare, who is still alpha over the young gelding but seems to know her place is with him.
An interesting observation, when the low mare gets mixed in with the 2 top mares and the alpha gelding, he will gently move her back to where the young gelding is, as if he knows she doesn't belong to his herd. Is this typical behavior? He doesn't get aggressive with her, just nudges her out and shakes his head a lot as if to say 'go over there'...and she just happily trots back to where the young gelding is.
So much fun to watch them interact and so much to learn from it.
Anyway, bottom line is that I think we did this the right way, where our horses were concerned anyway. The 3 weeks of gelding/mare separation prior to this turnout was a worthwhile exercise and time well spent. I think it may have helped make the turnout a safe experience for everybody.
And of course the fact that we decided to let them figure it out themselves, in 10 acres of space, on fresh green grass, after a winter of dry hay probably was a huge factor too.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Jun 3, 2005 - 1:01 pm:
Usually stallions are very possesive and attempt to steal mares from other groups, here the gelding does not seem to care for this mare.
DrO
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Member:
Tangoh
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Posted on Friday, Jun 3, 2005 - 1:31 pm:
That's what I thought. I wonder why he doesn't like her? Maybe he doesn't like her spots? She's an appy!!!
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 4, 2005 - 11:09 am:
That's great Sherri!
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 4, 2005 - 12:06 pm:
Excellent work, Sherri. I'm glad it all turned out smoothly.
PS: Wise, experienced gelding. I wouldn't mind someone stealing the Appy either. Well, may be, a little bit, but it wouldn't spoil my appetite.
(Just pulling Ann's leg)
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 4, 2005 - 8:16 pm:
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS..
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 5, 2005 - 2:33 am:
Spotaloosa?
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Member:
Tangoh
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Posted on Monday, Jun 6, 2005 - 4:19 pm:
What's up with this behavior now????
The lead mare and the alpha gelding are inseparable, have been together almost since birth...and are practically joined at the hip. She doesn't tolerate any other horses but him to get too close and he's like a god to her. We recently trained this 9 year old gelding to drive which I might boast he does beautifully as if he's done it is his whole life. When we unharnessed him and turned him back out 'with the girls' after a short drive yesterday, his 'beloved' mare, came running at a full gallop whinnying all the while to greet her man...sniffed him carefully and then squealed, pinned her ears and wheeled around with lightning speed and barely missing her mark with a vicious double barrelled kick as he spun from her hooves. ??? Never, ever has she EVER threatened this gelding. He seemed rather oblivious to it, probably because I still had him on halter and lead, however I was not oblivious and she heard about it right away from me as I was within striking distance of those hooves.
Is it possible that she didn't recognize his odour because we had bathed his shoulders in salt water after we removed his harness????
I should add, I'm not worried about this, just curious as this is completely out of character for her to turn on him...kinda like me rejecting a date with Johnny Depp 
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Monday, Jun 6, 2005 - 6:38 pm:
Supposedly smelled another female on him?
These things do happen, but particularly so when the man returns from a hard day at work...
I think this is just reestablishing hierarchy after the short break, it happens sometimes even in well established herds that have been separated for less than an hour.
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Member:
Avandia
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Posted on Saturday, Nov 12, 2005 - 11:50 am:
We have been offered a donkey. He was our most recent additions paddock mate. We run 20 horses of 60 acres with few problems. Are there any major problems. The donkey would stay at the home property until all members of the herd had become accustomed with him.
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Member:
Jvinoly
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Posted on Saturday, Nov 12, 2005 - 1:44 pm:
Marcia - We introduced a 13h donkey to our little mix by just letting them get to know each other over a fence. The next morning the little wonder was in the pasture with the rest! He either jumped a post/rail fence or climbed through it. The first thing he did was get our very dominant gelding moving by biting his knees and hocks. Poor Buddy was at a loss, and finally ran away in frustration. There was no way he was able to intimidate the donkey. They are best buds. They not only stick together all the time, but groom each other too. We found that donkeys have their own way of thinking, and they aren't too interested in the pecking order. He is really just a pasture pet but worth keeping just for the laugh factor.
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Member:
Heidim
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 4:29 am:
I'm resurrecting this discussion to ask for clarification. Our original herd was comprised of two fairly dominant mule mares and two geldings, one a yearling horse and the other a teenage mule, both of which got along with everyone. Just last week, I introduced a pony gelding. The herd ran him so hard that I pulled him out. The teenage mule was especially vicious, surprising given he's usually my babysitter. Anyway, I put the pony in a separate pen and slowly introduced the two mares. That went great. I then threw them all together, and the teenage gelding chased the pony to kingdom come. The pony tried to defend himself, but clearly lost in the end. Now, he's off by himself while the rest of the herd hangs together. When they do happen to meet in the pasture, only the teenage gelding attacks. The others could care less. I've considered giving them "a problem" as Christos suggests, but large hilly pens make this difficult and so I'd like to try a more traditional method. Here's my question: should I let things go as they are and leave them all together and hope the pony gets accepted over time, or should I put the teenage gelding and the pony together in a separate pen for a few weeks first to let them work it out without the rest of the herd? Granted, the others don't participate, but maybe their presence is interfering in some other way.
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