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Discussion on Problem mounting and beginning to ride
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New Member:
carol459
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Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 6:19 pm:
I'm a new, first-time horse owner with a 23-yr old QH gelding. I bought him from folks who had retired him as a cutting and roping horse. He's good tempered and lets me tack up no problem. I can put plenty of weight on stirrups and he's OK with that, but when I (or anyone else) tries to mount, he steps or pivots away. We pull down on reins and then I can mount (and I do that gently and quickly, with a mounting step). Once I'm in the saddle, he's difficult to handle -- tries to back up or trot. I have to keep him in place for a minute then walk with him reined in for several minutes before he relaxes. He's also become more spooky in past month. Is this a behavior problem, or could it be pain-related due to rider weight? He lunges with saddle OK. Problem is with mounting and first few minutes of riding. He also has a short stride with left hind leg and stumbles sometimes with hind limbs. I'm having him examined for possible lameness next week. I just don't know if the mounting/riding issue is behavior or pain. Any thoughts or advice?
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Member:
terrido
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Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 7:40 pm:
Well could be both. My first question would be whether he ever just stood quietly while you mounted up? My sense from your post is no. If he has always done this, it could be a behavior. These usually begin from pain. If however he stood even once until you mounted, then it is pain, and that comes directly (usually) from a saddle that does not fit.
Oh yeah and please don't pull down on the reins to try and make him stand still for you. Ouch!! There are better ways. 
So yes have him checked for lameness first, then check your saddle's fit! Ask the Vet maybe, though sometimes they aren't great at guessing or determining how well a saddle fits a horse. So look for a fitter in your area that can come out and have a look.
You could try bareback. Depends on how brave you are, but by eliminating the ouchy saddle, you may learn more about him.
Once you know he is sound enough to carry weight painfree, and you have a well fitting saddle then you will still most likely have to retrain him to stand quietly until you get mounted and ask him to move off.
This may take some time, and may even mean no riding, but it is absolutely something I insist on. The horse will stand still until I am in the saddle and ask him to move on. I don't care if it takes an hour or a day, I won't sit fully in the saddle until the horse cooperates - willingly. ;) Just me. I am too old to be trying to jump on a moving horse! haha
One step at a time, Have the Vet checks first then make sure the saddle fits, if it doesn't DON'T USE IT!! Pads will not magically make a saddle fit better, normally that just exacerbates the issue, tbh. If it doesn't fit, get one that does.
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Member:
terrido
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Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 8:27 pm:
Forgot, sorry, Congrats on being a horse owner!!
So, mounting.
First always mount from something other than just the ground. Or try to. It's better on their backs if you can get up high enough to step into the stirrup without pulling on the saddle. So if you don't have a 'block' to use to mount from, try maybe a fence or step stool, something.
There are lots of things you can do to more or less 'force' a horse to stand still while you get on. I am one that prefers to have a horse WANT to help me get on.
So couple basics, since this is your first horse. Where his feet go is important. What I mean is when you get him "lined up" so you can get on, where are his feet? Look at them. If he is not standing squarely, meaning his front legs are even (on a straight line) and his rear legs are even, move his legs until they are "square". If you were to draw a line around all four legs you'd have a nice solid rectangle.
If he has one leg in front of the other he is more apt to want to move. If it looks like movement, it will be movement. ;)
What I do is teach the horse step by step to approach the mounting block while I am standing on it. One small step at a time, calmly. I praise for each step attempt, or try. I don't want the horse rushing to the block, I want quietly walking up to it slowly. This will also help with finetuning his positioning. Ultimately he should be standing so the left stirrup is even with your left knee/leg. Again he should be standing squarely over all four of his legs.
Many horses will stand and then swing their haunches (backends) out and away. If he does this, make him move back around to your right away from the block, I often will get down and walk them back to lining up, I get back on the block and ask again for them to step up, one foot step at a time, to the block. I just keep doing this over and over until they will walk up and stand and not swing out and away. Making sure he is standing squarely will help him want to stand there too.
Now that he is standing nicely at the block, get down off it and go walk around a bit!! Or stop for the day even.
Next approach to the block again you expect him to 'line up' and stand quietly, praise alot. Just stroking, and loving words. Do this a few times, and get off the block and go walk somewhere.
Move the block around into different places and repeat the above until he will just walk up and stand quietly no matter where the block is.
Next step is to then make sure you have his full attention on you after he has gotten where you want him standing. you should be able to clearly see his left eye, his head should be bent slightly toward you. At this point the reins go over or around his neck. Again he needs to remain standing quietly and have his ear/focus on you. If his head moves away, his ears "focus" outside of you, then you need to quietly and gently squeeze the left rein (not pull!!) to ask him to focus back on you.... and always praise.
The next step is to just put weight into the left stirrup, praising when he stands still only. if he starts to move his hindquarters out, get down and walk him around a circle, bring him right back to stand, do it all again, and place weight into the left stirrup. Don't get up into the stirrup (as in your other foot off the block) until he stands quietly!!
Repeat all of the above until he will just stand quietly, and praise any and all attempts instantly along the way.
Once he quietly accepts weight into the left stirrup, now boost up so you are standing in that stirrup. Praise, and get back down and off that stirrup, stay on the block this time. Three times. If you can stand up in that stirrup and he remains standing quietly and focused on you three times, he is probably ready for the next step.
Next step is to put weight into left stirrup, stand into that stirrup and now go ahead and swing your right leg over and sit gently/quietly into the saddle.
Now here it may get tricky. The first few times I like to just get on and sit, I don't try right away to pick up my right stirrup. I need/want the horse to just stand there for a couple seconds with me on him. So if he starts to move get off as quickly and safely as you can. Then go back and start all over again. Yup all over again.
If he will just stand quietly, pick up your right stirrup, PRAISE! and after a few more seconds or even a couple minutes of just standing there quietly, then ask him to walk off.
Consistency in how you do this and the repetition will help him learn what it is you want of him, that and praising for the least try, and of course the perfect actions. Ask him and wait for him, ask him and wait for him. Take your time, but be persistent at it.
One more thing, be careful if you decide you can't go further where you decide to stop for the day. Make sure you stop only after he has completed a step of the above correctly.
Do not get frustrated. This may be hard to do at times. It may be super boring and highly repetitious, may even take a couple hours just to get him to stand at a block (or whatever you are using). That's ok, just keep at it. Be patient with him, you are new to him, he doesn't know what to expect form you, except now maybe pain. :0 no offense meant!! Just be persistent, be extremely patient, be consistent and don't give up!
Part of beginning to work with horses is making lots of mistakes. Unfortunately they can be costly in terms of your safety, you are working with a thousand pound animal that has a brain. The flip side is that though a horse will never forget they do forgive. As long as you try to do the best you can, often they will understand that.
I do recommend you find a local trainer to help you learn some basic handling and things, because it's best for your safety.
One thing you do need to understand right away is this: every moment you are with a horse you ARE training it - good, bad or otherwise.
Horses learn something 'new' the first time. They have to their survival depends on it. We 'cement it' by repeating about 3 to 5 times. So you need to try to be as consistent as possible, this means with everything. Like grooming, let's say he stands nicely while you brush him, great, then he decides to push into you, you move him off. The next time he pushes into you you just step out of the way.... so you have just taught him that if he pushes into you you yield and give him he space. Not a good thing really. And you weren't consistent in your actions to his. Make sense? If you were to always move him off you if he pushed into you, then he would stop pushing into you, cause he'll know you will just move him off anyway. ;] Oh he may still occasionally 'test' to see if you'll do something different.
I also like to put a word or phrase to everything I ask of a horse. Like move your hindquarters over, I use 'over-gee' to ask for move over to the right and 'over-haw' to ask to move to the left. Yes you could use left and right just as easily. ;) I use the driving terms because someday I hope to maybe learn to do that. LOL Anyway my point is that use very specific phrases or words for specific actions and they are not confusing then to the animal (horse, dog, cat, whatever). Up,down, left, right, over(hind), fore(front), back, etc. I do though use 'foot' for any of them, I always stand in the same position at that leg, I touch the leg first then say 'foot', or help them at first learn to pick it up after I touch and say 'foot'. So they know that if I stand in a certain position and say 'foot' I expect them to raise that foot.
Just be specific, consistent, patient and don't give up. Keep your expectations that they'll do as you ask, and you'll do quite well.
have fun!
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Member:
babychop
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Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 9:41 pm:
Try flexing his nose to his side 4 times each side & repeat until he settles. From the ground at first & then from the saddle. When he tries to move off do it again. It has worked wonders on my mare who used to be off before I was settled in. Now she waits patiently. Hold the halter lead or reins just behind the withers (with enough tension to make him uncomfortable) until he gives, touching the belly & throw the line away each time once he does. Once he gets the idea he'll beat you to it, it also helps with vertical flexion down the road. Here's a photo of her doing it when I ask her verbally. The point is to get him to give to pressure. Give it a try. As Terri says, patience, consistency & persistence will get you there. Good luck!
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 11:54 pm:
Terrie, that was a very thoughtful and thorough post! I think it's important to note the point you make about not getting on each time he's in position at the mounting block. Breaking the whole thing into small parts, not being oriented toward getting in the saddle, not riding off each time you mount, etc. Sometimes, mount and if he stands quietly, dismount or just sit and praise lavishly! Again, great post Terrie.
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 11:56 pm:
Oh, and Carol--welcome aboard! Andrea gives some good advice too.
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New Member:
carol459
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Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2008 - 2:21 pm:
Thank you all for your thoughtful and helpful advice. I'll give it a try. I have been working with a trainer for a couple of months, which has been very helpful, but we've focused on riding rather than mounting behavior. "Chance" is very agreeable and good-tempered with grooming, tacking, etc., and with his long experience as a ranch horse, I was surprised at his attitude about mounting, but he apparently was doing that with the previous owner, too (which makes me think it's not me or my saddle but a pre-existing issue with being ridden). I do use a step, so I'm not putting excessive weight on the left side, and I'm very gentle with him. However, I have not tried the type of training and exercises you've suggested -- I'll work with him and let you know how it goes! He's my big "baby" and I'm happy to do whatever he needs to be comfortable and happy. Thanks again!
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2008 - 5:48 pm:
Hi Carol,
Sometimes a horse learns to spin if he's been hit with a long rowelled spur while being mounted. I had a chronic spinner that I mounted from the right. He never figured out to spin the other way, and always seemed mildly surprised to find me onboard. With that horse, the habit was so confirmed that I judged it not worth fixing.
Good luck!
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Member:
terrido
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Posted on Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 12:51 pm:
Great point Elizabeth! Or also, an ill fitting saddle will begin this more than anything. Any horse, Any discipline! I had a dressage horse that would move his hindquarters out from the block as soon as I'd lift my left foot. All from a saddle that didn't fit ONCE! This saddle hurt him badly enough that he refused to stand still and allow me to mount with it on. It'd only been on his back for about 5 minutes. The mistake I made back then was I forced him to stand and let me get on instead of following my gut that screamed the saddle was the problem. I then spent the next year having to mount him in his stall backed into a corner so he couldn't escape. Why? Because I hadn't yet learned HOW to help him re-learn to stand quietly and let me get on him.
Not every saddle will fit every horse. *grin* Whether this is teh same saddle as the previous owner or your saddle make sure it fits him correctly before you use it. I cannot stress enough if it doesn't fit do NOT use it under any circumstances. If you do you will just destroy some level of trust you may have gained from him.
Take it slow, and keep at it. He has to understand you mean it when you ask, and of course you have to also allow him to make a mistake, allow him to maybe say no, not now. Then wait a bit and try again, guiding always guiding, never forcing. Course you can guide in an assertive or firm (I REALLY mean it) way. LOL but to me any level of guiding is still guiding, and not the same as forcing something. I still always, always always just ASK for what I want. I also realize the horse has an option to say 'no' if he chooses to. I just need to be careful picking his 'no' and agreeing to it is all. (I have found that by sometimes allowing the horse to say 'no I really don't want to work today' and doing something else that day makes a huge difference in their attitude later on.) What does that have to do with retraining standing quietly so you can get on? Lots! LOL
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