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Discussion on Pony kicks other horses while being ridden
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New Member:
kcsbar
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Posted on Monday, May 26, 2008 - 1:43 pm:
Hello,
I have a sweet black quarter pony gelding that my 7 year old daughter and I both ride. We got him in November, for her to ride for Pony Club. He has always been kind, calm, patient (she is a very new beginner), and yet still is very responsive to her and I when we ride. He has NO VICES, I have never found a more suitable childs horse.
I have always felt that he knew his "job" was to take care of her in her lessons...and unquestionably has done so until recently.
He started randomly stopping and backing up in her lessons with the other kids. He would pin his ears and threaten to kick. He OLNY does this with her on him, I have ridden him every day since we got him and he has never exhibited any agression to another horse, human or any animal for that matter, on the ground or in the saddle.
Clearly, I am very frustrated and saddened that our pony has decided to do this. He just yesterday actually acted out and kicked another horse in the lesson. The trainer then had me get on him and weave him in and out of the other students with a whip in my hand to whack him when he so much as gave a sideway glance. I felt awful hitting him...and all it really did was get him overly jumpy and excited for the rest of the lesson.
I have been training him a bit harder lately, doing a lot of side-rein, round pen work to help re-inforce what we want him to do under saddle, but I am always careful to see how he handles a training session before moving on to the next thing. I also try to reward him with fun things, trail rides and treats when he's been good.
Any suggestions on how to stop the "naughty" behavior??
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, May 26, 2008 - 10:08 pm:
Hi Karen, sounds like pony knows he can get away with it if your daughter is aboard.
IMO sounds like he knows his job well and your schooling probably won't stop the problem.
I think I would have your daughter ride him and make sure he knows the go forward cue. When your daughter is riding him alone in the arena, have her stop him and make sure he moves off leg immediately when asked, if he doesn't a tap on the rear wouldn't hurt. 7 yr. old girls legs aren't real strong and sometimes ponies become dull to leg. You could also do this on the lunge line so you could guide her.
Once you can get the forward cue working well, have her apply this as soon as she feels the pony getting ready to stop and back. It is also something you can teach him or reteach him. Then help her apply it. Horses and ponies can get dull sometimes and just need the "lightness" put back in them. Good Luck he sounds like a wonderful pony even the good ones get a little sour sometimes.
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New Member:
kcsbar
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Posted on Monday, May 26, 2008 - 10:50 pm:
Hi Diane,
Thanks for the advice. He actually does move off leg well. He just very deliberately stops and backs up.
I agree that he is doing this behavior with her because he can. She needs to develop more feel so she can sense that he is going to try this maneuver. I will continue to help her get stronger and more assertive with him so he doesn't feel like he can continue to take advantage.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, May 26, 2008 - 11:24 pm:
I remember when my son got his 1st pony he was 7 also. She was/is a good pony...still have her at 28 yrs. old.
Flash would ALWAYS jump creeks when he rode her, which was becoming a dangerous habit. One day she reared up and jumped a creek. The saddle horn hit my son in his stomach and he fell off (he was fine). To say the least I had enough of this behavior. Everyday I went out and rode her through every creek I could find for hours on end back and forth, she fought a good fight, but I kept at it for a good week. When we were done she would walk through any creek without hesitation. I didn't know if this would carry over with my son aboard, but surprisingly it did. That mare never did jump a creek again with a rider on....she still jumps them in the pasture without a rider
So maybe it is possible for you to school him out of it, 7 yr. olds are pretty young to handle such situations. Does there seem to be a certain horse/s he does this to? Maybe your trainer could ride a horse he seems to react to while you ride the pony and see if he does the same thing. If so maybe you could teach him it's not a good idea and it would carry over. Stopping bad habits before they are ingrained helps a lot. Again good luck
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 8:51 am:
Besides going forward, your daughter can try a good jab near his flank on one side, followed by a sharp "NO" if she is assertive enough to that. Show her how to move his haunches over while at the same time having more contact with the rein on the side she's moving over. Then have her relax, and pat the pony, telling him what a good boy he is!
It almost sounds like he's being protective of her! Telling the rest of the herd to back off. He may sense her "beginnerness" and he is taking his job very serious; not trying to be bad.
I remember our girls riding at that age, and it's difficult IMO, to get them to be assertive and most ponies can be stinkers at least some of the time. Even if he's being protective, he has to learn that balking to kick is not acceptable.
It needs to be stopped before he kicks someone. My worst horse related injury was from our very best, gentle as a kitten mare, who kicked at the gelding I was riding, and almost shattered my knee! She stopped and pinned her ears a few times, followed by stopped, pinned her ears, and backed up, followed by letting fly with both hooves! Our daughter was about 12 then and didn't get after the mare quick enough to prevent it, and the horse I was riding was young and pretty nervous; I had my hands full.
Good luck, hope the pony quits it, he sounds really nice. How about a picture?
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 11:39 am:
Hi Karen,
I agree that this is a serious behavior problem.
I do always like to give the horse the benefit of the doubt before I assume he is simply taking advantage. Is he a kicker in turnout or any other place apart from your daughter's lessons?
If not, I would wonder whether she isn't unconsciously tightening up in a fearful way when other horses come up on them, and causing him to panic. Then, of course, he takes it in a direction that she doesn't yet have the skills to correct.
So certainly you need to nip the habit before someone gets hurt, but you also need to determine whether your daughter might be planting the seed for it. It is very common for green riders to start these problems w/o realizing it. Is it possible for her to take a few rides on something that will restore her confidence in group riding?
Good luck, and let us know how you get along!
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Member:
ribbons
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Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 1:36 pm:
I totally empathize with your daughter! First for everyone's safety, tie a red ribbon in his tail to warn the other riders that this pony kicks and they should stay far behind him.
I periodically have a similar problem with a mare I own ( and have for ten years now) who in some ways tries to protect her rider by not going forward when she decides a situation isn't safe. Her attitude is great for keeping kids out of trouble when trail riding or jumping cross country.
She started the backing up and added a little rearing just after the two week trail for her was over and my check had cleared the bank. My daughter, who was eight years old at the time, tried for a couple of weeks to correct the pony, but finally one day while the mare was backing up, I finally grabbed her by reins, told my daughter to grab some mane and yelled at horse that she was not,ever, ever, ever going to endanger my daughter like that and gave her three good smacks on her back end. Now this probably wasn't the safest solution, but we were in a ring with really soft footing and my daughter has great balance anyway. Also,when my daughters learned to ride in France, the instructor held a lunging whip and used it to urge balky ponies forward as their little riders were simply not strong enough to discipline their mounts. Depending on the situation, that approach might be helpful.
In regards to our horse,we never had another problem with backing up for next 10 years-until this year when my daughter went away to college and I decided I would ride her. While on the ground I can see it in her eyes when she is even thinking of getting obstinate, but on her back I haven't been sensitive enough to feel that exact moment. We've been going through this for about a month now and my trainer has me sitting back in a more "defensive" position and then urging her on. The position helps me feel more secure and then I can urge the horse on effectively. I also learned that I tense up and pull back unconsciously thereby not giving the horse anywhere to go when she does move forward. I have developed a simple mantra for myself when I sense her starting to back."Sit back, hands forward, kick." Not exactly elegant dressage, but it is trying to establish the "forwards" first. Maybe your daughter could practice this off the horse so it becomes more automatic while she is on. With practice I am getting better.
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New Member:
kcsbar
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Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 5:17 pm:
Thanks everyone for the helpful tips. I took him out today for a ride and he was wonderful. I even had two other riders help me "school" him, by trotting and cantering past him in the arena. I even left my reins a bit slacker than I would ride, because my daughter often does this. I had no spurs on, I just held my whip-ready. He did nothing. His ears flipped back and forward when the other girls cantered past, and he sped up a little but did not break gait. At one point the other rider came along side us at the trot and we could have touched we were so close, like a drill team formation. He did nothing naughty.
This confirms to me, that like you all have said, he's picking this up from her somehow and I need to get her to be assertive with him ASAP.
I am going to have to try to teach her more about how to avoid this behavior and try to practice some of these solutions in the round-pen and then in the arena.}
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