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Discussion on One rein stop?
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008 - 3:47 am:
What exactly is a 'one rein stop' and could it be used while lungeing ?
Jos
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Member:
dtranch
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008 - 6:15 am:
Hey Jos ..... Great question.
I teach the one rein stop as a technique to wind the horse down by bringing his nose in toward the girth area while simultaneously releasing the hind quarters by crossing rear feet over and disengaging, ultimately coming to a complete halt. It is often referred to as your emergency brake, and rightly so. I also use it routinely to help calm the horse, to calm the rider, or simply to take a time out to regroup.
The "disengagement" is the key and is often overlooked. A lot of people will pull the head around until the horse stops, then release while the rear is still engaged. I call this the "fake" one rein stop. The horse can then immediately walk out, buck out, or simply take off again.
I actually teach it from the ground first, as does Frank Bell in his "7 step safety system". I want both horse and rider to understand it completely, and make it a reflex action .... something you do as an immediate response without having to think about it. After I have the horse moving around me on the lunge, I teach to gather in the rope as we walk in toward the horses hip. Holding the rope in the position you would have the rein if in the saddle, I start bumping the horse just behind where the girth would be (where my foot will be when in the saddle) until he crosses the rear feet over. I then stop bumping but continue to hold the rope until the horse stops and brings his head in to the girth area in a "lateral flex". Make sure you can do it well from both sides. Once mastered on the ground, the transition to the saddle is seamless as both horse and rider understand exactly what we are doing.
In my opinion, this is one of the first things an inexperienced horse and rider should learn. When should you use the one rein stop? I want my people to use it "whenever they or the horse needs it". Use it when the horse is confused or upset, use it whenever the rider is confused or upset, use it whenever you feel the horse begin to "act up" ...... use it whenever horse or rider needs to regroup, then take a deep breath and think about what is happening.
I hope I have made some sense here, I know others will explain it much better than I can. Learn it and make it a key element of your horsemanship skills.
DT
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008 - 6:46 am:
Thanks Dennis, I think I understand what you mean. Disengaging the hindquarters is something new for me, I didn't start to engage so disengage neither. Just worked on relaxing very young horses with patience and calmness.
As I now have my own 'problemhorse' with a load of condition [8 years] and extremely panicky who thinks flight buck hit is the only solution to whatever you encounter I think the one rein stop will be imperative to learn.
I suppose I can read'bump behind the girth' as:'point in the direction'? Bumping in this case would at this moment have Cascade jumping towards the moon . The head position will work fine an having him cross his rear feet too I just need to find out when he really 'flexes' in stead of panicky turning around me.
Does this sound as if I understood?
Boy I really need a clinic.
Jos
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008 - 7:12 am:
Jos, Dennis explains it well, but if you are like me I am more of a I need to see it done type person before I understand.
Here is a pretty good video of it. Hank was taught the one rein stop and I have used it more than once!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmpDSbXPtzU&NR=1
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Member:
babychop
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008 - 10:26 am:
Clinton Anderson has a wonderful set of instructional DVDs about this as well that are in layman's terms and easy to follow. Pick whoever is easier for you to understand & you enjoy learning from. I find some of the clinicians get on my nerves... I've used these techniques with my Hambone since he was 1 day old (poor little bugger) and he is so responsive & respectful, it really makes a huge difference!
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Member:
terrido
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008 - 10:48 am:
For a really sensitive horse, or a really spooky one, working on ground with a longe line/rope initially will help the horse to focus on YOU, so some of the "spookiness" will go away.
I think with a sensitive horse the word 'bump' may sound like too much. I think what Dennis means (and if I am incorrect Dennis please jump on in here!!) I think what he means by saying "bump him just behind where the girth would be" as touch him there until he starts to move his rear feet over, and away.
This is where your leg would be when mounted. So you will bring his head around with the line in your hand and with your other hand touch him just about where your leg would be until he begins to step his rear feet away and crossing that inside rear over that outside rear leg. Touch means in an on-off manner and not pointed fingers but more a flat hand against the side so it's like your leg. touch-release-touch-release increase the volume of the touch until a rear leg moves.
 On the ground it's often that the horse will anticipate your actions and as you walk to it, gathering line they will start to 'one-rein stop' themselves. So just be careful about this.
Anyway, once accomplished on ground and both sides, it's easy in the saddle to do the same thing. Bring the nose around while touching your leg to the same side asking the horse to disengage that backend. The difference is that while sitting on the horse you now keep at it until you feel that inside hind cross over that outside hind. The horse will naturally stop at this point.
I had never used this before, and only recently began to use this with my mare. Yup in all the years of riding I never had a name for it, nor had I used it much. I need it occasionally with this girl. It helps her focus back on me. When riding we have a choice with all that energy and power, we can use it and direct it (manage it - I like this phrase), or take it away. I do all of the above depending on the situation.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008 - 10:59 am:
Diane,
That was a great video clip. I liked his instructions better than jabber jaws, Clinton Anderson.
Denny,
I am guilty of forgetting the leg is part of the one rein stop so nice to be reminded. I've been doing a lot of half one rein stops without realizing it I guess. Oooops!
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008 - 3:16 pm:
I have some confusion with the reins. I have been told to bring the rein toward my navel. The guy in the video brings it to his hip. Which is correct?
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Member:
terrido
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008 - 5:16 pm:
Actually whatever works! haha
Most will tell you to pick a spot between your hip and knee.
I have even choked up on a rein and lifted it up enough that it's like that hand is heading for my opposite shoulder. Depends on your horse and what's happening I think.
The key is to take up enough rein to be able to bring the nose around far enough to help with getting that backend disengaged.
I used one rein stops so much on a trail ride not long ago that my horse would do a half halt (really slow waaaaay up) by just a simple lifting of a rein! haha But she is a smart girl.
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Member:
babychop
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008 - 5:20 pm:
To the hip is the way to go. Clinton can talk up a storm, can't he? lol
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Member:
stevens
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008 - 7:04 pm:
OK folks, I'm wondering how exactly is this different from a pulley rein which is what I was taught to use as the emergency brake?
Granted this seems less severe than a pulley rein where you support with the outside rein and use a direct rein effect (high or low) on the inside rein. Think set your outside hand and pull up or towards your hip with the inside hand.
I guess there is more of an intentional lateral displacement of the haunches in this as well...
Frankly, this sounds like a pretty edgey thing to do, pull a horse's head around to his flank if he's running off. I would think that the support of an outside rein would help preclude things like, say, falling over.
As Denny explains it, I can see value in this as a tool to stop things from escalating if they start to go bad, but I'm missing the emergency brake aspect.
Inquiring minds want to know.
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Member:
dtranch
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008 - 7:46 pm:
Chris ... adding pressure to the outside rein will encourage the horse to turn on his haunches instead of on his forehand. This actually engages the rear instead of disengaging ... which is a power position instead. I use a variation of this to get the horse working off his rear and getting under himself.
The emergency brake reference is why I so adamantly teach it to be a reflex action. You are right in that you do not want to do this with a horse that is already running away at speed. You want to react and apply the one rein stop immediately with the initial action of the horse. If the horse is up to speed, you have to wind down in bigger circles until you can get control, and obviously, this is not always possible.
DT
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Member:
terrido
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008 - 7:51 pm:
Good point maybe a second question of when to apply would be in order.
I am not convinced I would use a full 'one-rein-stop' on a bolting horse. I am not certain I'd be physically able to use one on a horse in midst of a bucking frenzy either.
This for me goes hand in hand with an emergency dismount. ;)
I, for one, believe highly in training the horse to have many 'brakes'; building a solid trusting relationship as well. This then normally will preclude much of the usual need for a one-rein-stop, etc. Of course a horse is a horse and will always BE a horse. Still, having a solid relationship (if possible) and training in many forms of "brakes" helps to diffuse most anything relatively well.
Yes the disengagement of the power by moving haunches over while bending neck will stop any horse, but unless you can get them to move the haunches laterally you may not achieve the stop. I have seen horses at a dead run with their nose on a rider's knee!
And yes there is a possibility of forcing a fall if not counter balanced well when applied. (as in holding the opposite rein, etc.)
I use a one-rein-stop when I am out in open country and other forms of diffusing too much energy are not working well, or when on a trail and not enough room to do other forms of energy's diffusion. I also know people that teach their horse to just stop and put their head down on a verbal command. That's handy too, well maybe not from a dead run, bolt...
At home we work constantly on instilling good "brakes". The last time she bolted off on me (18 months ago) I was able to slow her instantly and had her stopped within 5 strides. I work on brakes so much so that after being out and about and applying the one rein stop frequently enough just a lifting of a rein produced a beautiful half halt no matter where my mare's brain was. That and she chooses to listen to me now, no matter what's going on around her. And that's mostly our relationship.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008 - 7:59 pm:
Chris,
I think of a pulley rein as what to do with a horse that is bucking. This is when you'd put one hand on the horses neck, or your saddle, and pull UP sharply with one rein. Straight up, not back.
I do wonder too about this working with a horse that is really going. I think something that isn't explained well enough is the extent to use this one rein stop. It's actually, if you watched the video clip, a "one rein wind down" right?
(Denny?)
I think Clinton Anderson made this pretty famous, but here's some things to think about: He only wants certian breeds of horses for his clinics,
and,
One of my horses that I did the one rein stop with, and the "lateral flexing" he preaches about, now thinks he has to bring his head around every time we stop!
So, granted, the one rein wind down and disengaging the hindquarters has a place in training,and riding, it brings up very good questions like yours!
And another thing: there apparently is a right way and a wrong way to pull the horses head around. So as not to hurt the horse and create more problems later, and where you bring your hand too would make a difference. Of course if one said horse is freaking out, and your safety is a stake, well, pull that head any which way!
One rein stop sounds better than one rein wind down, but STOP should mean NO MOVEMENT.
O.k., this should get interesting now...tee hee.
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Member:
babychop
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008 - 9:29 pm:
I actually have used a full one rein stop on a bolting horse, I had a big TB mare off the track & she took off on me down the bike trail (just ran right through the bit) with kids, skateboards, bikes & dogs next to the dirt (separated by posts) on the right and a steep DrOpoff with rocks on the other side of the narrow dirt area. She was galloping so fast I couldn't see (my eyes were tearing up) and I was (of course) bareback. The very first opportunity where there was an opening on the left (after the DrOpoff came up to a flat dirt area) I pulled her hard left into my hip & she did stop. She made a huge circle at first & it was pretty hairy but in the end there was no damage to either of us. Not saying it's the answer every time but it worked for me.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008 - 9:46 pm:
I've used the "one rein stop" twice when I've been very glad I'd known it. It did make the horse stop...at least made it slow way down, go in small circles, and become controlable again.
I was asked to ride a former barrel horse who once in the arena took off at a full run, totally ignoring bit pressure, etc. The horse just became frantic in it's running. The One Rein worked, and short of running him straight into the fence (which he may have tried to jump) was the only thing I know of that could have gotten him under control.
The other time I was on the trail with a young horse that took off at a dead run when it heard a loud gun shot. Nothing was going to stop her. Again, the One Rein stop got her back under control and allowed me to stop her. This was a young Arabian mare, the previous horse was QH, just for the record.
I've never heard Clinton Anderson will not work with certain breeds? Which breeds, do you know? Was that C.A. in the video? I didn't notice, though did notice it was Australia!
btw-in order for the One Rein stop to work right, you have to have your arm pretty much parallel to the rings of the bit and pull straight back. If your arms aren't very strong, you can reach down closer to the bit to get more leverage. When you pull upwards you get an entirely different action in the bit. Lifting up on a direct rein is the cue to turn. If you pull across your body you are limited as to how far you can pull, and also get a different movement in the bit. Same with pulling downwards. As Denny said, the leg action is important. You have to push the hind end away from the direction you are pulling the head to disengage and move it. It's hard for a horse to buck or run with it's head near your knee and it's hind end turning in a small circle!
The above is in the extreme. When a horse knows the one rein stop, you can a very light version to slow a horse down, redirect it's attention,etc. when it isn't listening to you.
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Member:
stevens
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008 - 11:12 pm:
Interesting points of view. I think I have to go with the thought that good solid brakes are a basic skill and hopefully, we rarely if ever need the emergency brake.
By support with the outside rein, I did not mean to imply pressure. When doing a turn on the forehand I use the outside rein to close that door so that when I apply my inside leg, the horse does not move his shoulders to the outside or step forward but does in fact move his hindquarters.
I'm just too old these days to get on someone's wild beast, but my hat's off to those of you who do.
Angie, funny you should mention using a pulley rein with a bucking horse; I do something that seems more like this one-rein stop thingee; pull the head to the inside and use my inside leg.
All roads lead to Rome
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Member:
stevens
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008 - 11:15 pm:
One more thing.
DT, it seems like your variation of this to get the horse working under himself smells suspiciously like a dressage half-half (rebalancing the horse). Next thing you'll be wearing white breeches and tails!!
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Member:
leilani
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 4, 2008 - 1:55 am:
I use the one rein stop anytime my mares go faster than I ask them to. It reinforces my brain as well as theirs. Normally I just exhale and sit and my mare will stop, but we have had occasions...
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 4, 2008 - 7:19 am:
The trainer I use to work for taught me the pulley rein, quite a useful tool also! He told me to never use it unless all else has failed as it is extremely
hard on the mouth. If I am thinking of the same thing you call a pulley rein. I tried it twice and it worked well to stop an obnoxious horse, but the one rein stop seems much more humane and teaches disengagement and relaxation at the same time.
I found once the pulley rein stopped them the "excitement" remained or was even escalated.
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 4, 2008 - 10:28 am:
One rein stops should be practiced before the emergency. The reason it brings an excited horse down is that a dominant horse will make the submissive horse move his hindquarters. So it is a dominant gesture for us to force the horse to move his hip.
In a recent clinic, it was explained to me that in all other riding aspects we ask the horse for movement. With a disengagement, we take the hip. It is that "taking" that makes it dominant.
I think Dennis gave a great explanation of when to use this: "When should you use the one rein stop? I want my people to use it "whenever they or the horse needs it". Use it when the horse is confused or upset, use it whenever the rider is confused or upset, use it whenever you feel the horse begin to "act up" ...... use it whenever horse or rider needs to regroup, then take a deep breath and think about what is happening." If used this way, it keeps the horse in a submissive frame of mind and maybe the bucking and bolting situations are nipped before they escalate.
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Member:
babychop
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 4, 2008 - 10:30 am:
Hi Sara, here's Clinton Anderson's site: https://www.downunderhorsemanship.com/horsetraining.html I've never heard of him refusing to work with any specific type of horse but it does say they're not accepting any additional training horses at the moment. I've seen him work mostly with quarter horses but he's also used warmbloods & TBs on his show on RFDTV. He's a bit more of a talker than the guy in the link in a previous post. I think "jabberjaws" describes him pretty well actually... Good, clear instruction though. I've learned tons from him & my horses have become extremely responsive.
Good luck! I agree with a few of the others, hopefully you'll never need an 'emergency brake' but it sure helps to have one if you do. Saved my bacon at least once!
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 5, 2008 - 4:01 am:
Something dawned on me : How are you able to use the one rein stop at the other end of the lunge line? You are to far away to get him 'bend' in his body instead of the whole horse turning?
Sorry but this is completely new to me.
Jos
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 5, 2008 - 6:59 am:
Jos believe it or not you can do a version of the one rein stop on the lunge line. When lungeing Hank all I need to do is take a step towards his hip and he will disengage his hip and turn towards me and stop. All the steps to a one rein stop and disengagement on the lunge line are in the Parelli 7 games. I couldn't have learned how to do them with out someone showing me.
I am not good at explaining how to do things, so I will leave that to the experts
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 5, 2008 - 8:32 am:
What I'd like to know is, if you've used the one rein stop on a bucking or bolting horse, what do you do NEXT? I can't imagine that the horse will have switched off the adrenaline just like that, so do you sometimes have to continue doing more and more one rein stops, or what?
(Like Jos, I'd never heard of it before joining this board.)
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 5, 2008 - 9:58 am:
Believe it or not, just the changing course seems to change the mind set also. If when you loosen up on the rein and start to give the head back the horse acts or feels like it's still going to act up, do some slow circles starting really tight and then increasing in size. Or, do lots of leg yields, stops and starts, stuff to keep the mind busy. When I'm on the trail I weave in and out of the sage brush until the horse settles down. Of course, sometimes I do this the entire ride!
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Member:
terrido
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 5, 2008 - 11:06 am:
Just a comment about training one rein stop on longe and Parelli games. They are a bit different in that by using the Parelli "hide your hiney" style of disengagement, the horse isn't also getting the other 'aids' one would use under saddle. Meaning the bend of neck and leg asking for hindquarters to move (turn on fore).
I just want to caution, be careful what you teach. ;] Nothing wrong with Parelli games at all, but this suggestion isn' exactly training a real one rein stop imho.
On longe you have to be able to bend the horse's neck, bring his nose around as you touch his body about where your leg would normally be, and those two together mean "move your backside over".
You must be close enough to influence the neck and touch the horse when training this on longe.
Now once the horse has learned this, use of bend on longe will slow him down, essentially gives a half-halt, depending on the amount of bend and quickness of release.
You want to bring the nose around using a firm continuous movement and kinda of hold that nose in position as you ask for the hindquarters to move. This should be done in one smooth motion and released as soon as the horse steps over and disengages.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 5, 2008 - 11:16 am:
I do ofcourse understand the idea when you are close enough but as the horse takes of in a'triple galop' or starts bucking you are always[or hope to be ] further away. I KNOW the thing is to avoid him from getting away but boy is this horse experienced and fast in 'leaving the training programme'
I think though it gives me a lot of things to work on he really doesn't know and it seems to interest him which on itself is already very good something: he doesn't dislike so I will diligently plod along and come to the US for a much needed clinic
Nothing better then seeing the live version with your own eyes!
Jos
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Member:
babychop
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 5, 2008 - 11:21 am:
What Sara said. The adrenaline sometimes seems to bleed out of them once they stop & they do calm down once they realize the 'danger' is over. Some horses, we all know different horses can be like night & day. Sara gives good advice to circle until the horse realizes that if they're going to act up they're going to have to circle, maybe it's the repetition that calms, don't know.
The bucking issue can be controlled as well because you're taking the power away by disengaging the hind quarters. You may still get a few bucks out of 'em but it will slow 'em down. I've had experience with this, trust me. I had an Appaloosa/TB cross that could buck straight up & clear the fence rail. It was no picnic & I learned because it sucked getting the wind knocked out of me when I hit the ground!
As for the one rein thing on a longe line, both Parrelli & Clinton teach this exercise along with the beginning sending stuff & it works like a charm once the horse 'gets' it. I train my nags this way & they all yield & face me when I step toward the hip & bend.
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Member:
babychop
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 5, 2008 - 12:59 pm:
Jos, is he turning away & tearing out of your hands while longing? Have you tried a rope halter & gloves? The rope halter has pressure points that deter most horses from fighting resistance where web halters do not. It might give you a bit of an edge if that's the issue. One of the things they preach about getting them to turn in to you with the step toward & bend thing is that "two eyes are better than two heels"... Everything comes with practice & patience. Hope that helps...
I want to mention that if he's loose, with a rope dragging behind, that could be an accident waiting to happen, all it needs is to catch on something solid while he's galloping full speed to snap his neck. I'm assuming you're in a big arena, if so I'd try a round pen as open feeling spaces give them more courage to rip away.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 5, 2008 - 4:49 pm:
HMMM well when Hank was taught the Parelli games that is how it started bend neck, both sides until they touch their shoulder area...that in itself is hard to teach some horses....that would be the rein part when mounted. Then they are taught to move away from pressure with the lightest touch of your finger. (porcupine game)...which teaches move from leg pressure when mounted.
I have seen the Parelli games turn into a train wreck when people do not understand them. They are not easy to teach a horse if you don't know the reason behind each game and the desired result, had I not had a GOOD certified Parelli trainer show me the basics and the concept behind them it wouldn't have worked.
I do stand behind them being a good tool to teach a horse some basics with an agenda for the beginner or a problem horse.
All the "natural horsemanship" trainers do the same thing as the games. The games just seem to add some step by step instruction to the desired result....disengagement and softness being the main things.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Friday, Jun 6, 2008 - 3:44 am:
Andrea no real pulling from him unless he really panicks[happened when saddled twice I lost control because I just reacted not fast enough]
The first thing I teach my horses [and ofcourse in a safe round pen/lungering] as they start being lunged is that it can happen that they get loose with a line dangling they are used to that and normally wait in a corner for me to 'untangle' [start with a short rope ofcourse ]
It served me well for numerous times. As soon as they are really accustomed to this they even react the same when they accidentally get loose in a big arena or field. They just come when called or at the very least stand still till help arrives]
I am used to lunge with a good leather cavesson bit underneath as soon as they are ready, such a shame Margot and Cascade panicked about the cavesson too[to tight? claustrofobic?] I don't like lungeing on the bit much but Cascade accepts it, he keeps his head very high though and that doesn't get better with a lungeline on his bit[not even when the line is put behind his ears]
So I use a good fitting leather halter[no gloves if he gets frightened he is frightened of the gloves too]
He just tries to run around me and buck and lash out as soon as he has really started to run. I ALWAYS keep enough distance with him so his legs can't touch me.
So I start doing the mentioned exercizes holding his head on a short line and in walk and standstill, just to catch his attention. He seems to like that[a first!] if I repeat it often enough I hope he will start to react even if he is going faster.
I've seen people over here do Parelli and other trainingmethods you mentioned, even give clinics but the quality was so horrible I decided not to use any technique just from a dvd or book I will wait and go see the work done good in the US on my holiday.
It is by now clear I [for the moment]do not want to stand behind my horse If he forgets me one second...the others can go look for a new slave to serve dinner.
Jos
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Member:
suzym
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Posted on Monday, Jun 23, 2008 - 11:45 am:
John Lyons introduces the "hips over" movement as one of the basics. I don't remember if he's ever talked about this disengagement as the "one rein stop," but he teaches it's usefulness in terms similar to those used in some of the discussions here.
You can read some of what JL has to say here:
https://www.myhorse.com/training/performance/put_an_end_to_tug-of-war.aspx#top
I used it from the very beginning with my now 10 year old gelding, and it's kept him very light and responsive. I can ride him anywhere in just a soft leather side pull.
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