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  Discussion on Horse turns head from side to side at a stop
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Member:
kbaxter

Posted on Thursday, Jun 5, 2008 - 5:13 pm:

I did a search all over this website to see if anyone has ever experienced this behavior before. I bought a retired ranch horse, gelding from a gal who has a reputation for selling nice, easygoing horses. First of all let me say that for the most part he is a good horse though with proper diet and healthcare he has become very alert and is presenting a problem when it comes to stopping. I changed his bit to a shanked snaffle with a slow twist so that it would be comfortable when he is behaving and with the twist to get his attention when he isn't for the most part there hasn't been a change so we are working on using pressure/release along with backing up when he doesn't stop when asked but he has always had this unusual behavior of when he is at a stop and only when he has a rider on his back he will move his head from side to side as if to anticipate your next command. He has done this from the very beginning. Not knowing anything about his background (age approx. 14 yrs) I was wondering if maybe he'd been abused. Can any of you out there help shed some light on why you think he does this?
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Thursday, Jun 5, 2008 - 5:36 pm:

Kim,

Just off the top of my head, have you had his teeth checked? Look for physical problems first.
Then, I wonder if he wasn't over "Cintonized" meaning someone did lots of Clinton Anderson's flexing to the side stuff. I bring that up because I noticed my gelding thinks he has to bring his nose to his side everytime I ask him to stop! He really thinks he's being a good boy because prior to this year I did ask him to lateral flex at the stop as a suppling tool and to keep him relaxed.

If it were my horse, (and he sounds really nice btw) I'd go back to a nice 3 part snaffle bit, no shanks (shanks and curb chain make a bit a curb bit, broken or solid mouth piece, it's still a curb bit) and start with basics and when halting keep both reins equal so he cannot move his head from side to side. Another cue that might help is the Lyons method of pulling slightly up with one rein to get him to lower his head and relax. Someone else needs to describe that one as I am not 100% sure but I think you just hold one rein like towards your ear, and wait for the horse to lower his head and reward the slightest try of course, by releasing the rein.
Member:
kbaxter

Posted on Friday, Jun 6, 2008 - 1:46 am:

Hi Angie,

Yes, had his teeth floated right after we got him and no there isn't any natural flexing. Matter of fact he is rather stiff when I ask for him to do any lateral flexing especially from the ground. Though I have been working on it along with the one rein stop. I thought about putting him a comfort snaffle by Myler but changed my mind when the 3 part snaffle (not Myler) we had at first didn't seem to work. He totally ignored the bit completely.
Member:
1roper

Posted on Friday, Jun 6, 2008 - 8:26 am:

Kim-
He ignores the bit because there's about a 99% chance he's never been taught to pack one around and a curb bit is definitely not the place to start. Take Angie's advice. Also, if the one rein stop isn't done correctly, you're going to add to his problem... Why everyone thinks it is the *HORSE* and not themselves is beyond me. I have made a living fixing horses that have people problems. I suppose that is what pays the bills, but rarely do I find members of the general public that want to take any responsibility for a horse's habits. When most of the time they're caused by the ignorance of the people on their back, and they blame the horse. Flexion is created by proper timing with the pressure and release. A Three part snaffle would be best- and make sure your hands are doing what they're supposed to. Ask, when he TRIES release. Don't get in a pulling contest with him.
Member:
lhenning

Posted on Friday, Jun 6, 2008 - 9:50 am:

If he is stiff and resistant then that is the first thing to work on. Bring his nose to you just to where he resists, hold it until he softens then release immediately. Begin this at stop, then do it at a walk, then trot. He will soon bring his nose over at the lightest movement of the rein. It will improve his stop.

To teach a good stop, breathe out, sit back and use your seat to stop him, then use the reins pulling back softly and working up to more firmness. As said before, reward the slightest try. Once stopped, then back him three or four steps. Do this over and over and he will soon stop when he hears you breathe out. Also stop means stop. Don't let him move forward until you say so.

I think his head movement sounds like a little anxiety over what he is anticipating. Could be from his earlier training, but if you teach him to soften and relax when you ride him, I bet that behavior subsides over time.
Member:
kbaxter

Posted on Friday, Jun 6, 2008 - 3:19 pm:

Thanks Linda. I am putting him back into the 3 part snaffle and am working on softening my hands. This morning we just worked on lateral flexing. I rewarded on the slightest "give". He stops pretty good on the walk but not at the trot or the lope. Breathing..LOL..that is my weakness. I always forget to breath when anticipating his next move. I have to remember he doesn't know my past experiences (some that stopped me from riding for 30 years) and I don't know his. My daughter is more more experienced than I am and he acts the same way when she is on his back too so I think your right it's anxiety. He was cowboy broked so am sure he does have some anxiety, my Dad was 5 time rodeo champion and I watched how he broke horses (one of the reasons I stopped riding)and it wasn't pretty. Now that that way of thinking has slowly disappeared and horses are being trained in a much more gentler way I am back to wanting to ride again. He is also having to get used to all the "fuss"..getting groomed,bathed and wearing a fly mask. It took weeks before he would stay relaxed when I rubbed his face. Now he's so accepting of all the petting and rubbing. Had his sheath cleaned last week and he was super. He stands perfectly still for pasting and vaccinations. Everything about him is what I wanted in a partnership with a horse. The stopping will get better, I just need to not rush it. He's great out on trail as long as we stay at a walk and if for some reason he starts to get a little "speedy" I usually keep his rope halter on with the lead rope dallied around my saddle horn, I just pull up on the lead rope which turns his head enough to slow back down...if he ignores that then I pull straight up so as to disengage his hind quarters and he comes to a complete stop. I usually have him stand there for a minute, where then he starts that nervous head movement until I cue him to go forward. I should probably back him up when he does that right? I forget that training is always on going not just in the round pen. And to breathe...I think I will make myself a note to breath and stick to the saddle horn so I don't forget. Thank you Linda for being kind in your advice and not scolding. I do realize that for the most part it's the person not the horse that's problem but just like people, horses are all different too. I don't profess to be anything but a pleasure rider so I don't think I am asking too much from him. Just a nice comfortable ride. I do know that horses can be unpredictable and I have seen some being what would be considered now as abuse. And thank heavens there are people like Jennifer out there that can help out both the rider and the horse but the person has to be just as understanding about the person as they do the horse. I have had some trainers that were excellent with horses and sucked when it came to dealing with people. I for one stay away from them.
Member:
dtranch

Posted on Friday, Jun 6, 2008 - 6:12 pm:

Kim .. go back to a snaffle and practice soft, soft, soft hands. Give him a chance to realize it doesn't have to be a battle. Practice backing him one foot at a time with light direct rein contact.

When asking for the stop, make sure you are giving him a "big" release. A lot of people hang on without realizing it, and the horse gets confused .. he did what was asked, and there is still pressure, so he better try something else .... thus the head shaking starts.

Don't forget reward big each time ... and reward yourself as well. You'll get there.

DT
Member:
kbaxter

Posted on Saturday, Jun 7, 2008 - 12:49 pm:

Thanks Dennis. Changed out his bit this morning. There wasn't any difference in the bits..so it's not so much the horse as it's the rider teaching the horse. He is fitting in real nice here with the 4 other mares, so I want to keep him. What I probably should do is get some lessons. My skills are pretty rusty. I will let you all know how it goes. I am just glad that someone shed light on the head movement..didn't even realize it was anxiety until Linda mentioned it.
Member:
lhenning

Posted on Monday, Jun 9, 2008 - 1:13 pm:

I rode a friends horse some years ago and he had a similar habit, but instead of moving his head from side to side, he tossed it up and down. Now this horse had been used as paid trail riding horse for tourists who probably pulled and pulled on his poor mouth. When I rode him and asked for stop, I pulled back a bit on the reins and he started the head tossing. As soon as the tossing paused even the tiniest bit, I released. It only took him three or four tosses to realize all he had to do was stop and he would get release.

So make sure, as Dennis says above, that you are releasing the reins completely when he stops. Throw them forward to help you remember. If he walks off, pull back, but release again the moment he stops.

Lessons sound like a good idea, especially if you have nerves from past experiences. Horses pick up so much of our tension so lessons will help you gain more confidence.

Good luck,
Linda
Member:
kbaxter

Posted on Monday, Jun 9, 2008 - 3:18 pm:

You all have been so helpful. I have already looked into starting lessons with one of the local trainers in my area. He lives just down the rode so Boomer and I can just ride over. I guess I just needed to realize that if I am going to spend the money to buy him and to pay for his upkeep I had better spend a little more so that I can enjoy riding him. It's funny how I will buy whatever tack or supplement etc.,but won't spend the money on lessons which are probably one of the most important aspects of this whole horse owning experience. Thanks for opening my eyes.
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