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Discussion on Assessing Yearling Warmblood Conformation
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New Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 11, 2008 - 9:01 pm:
Hello,
I would love to get anyone's comments on this yearling warmblood filly's conformation, as well as any general tips for assessing same. Many thanks!!
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Member:
sarahb47
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 11, 2008 - 9:35 pm:
Nice shoulder and front end! Good bone, nice short cannon, long forearm.
For my preferences, I'd look for a shorter back and longer croup, but fillies are often lighter than colts in that regard. The hindquarters look a bit light in muscling, but that's just my opinion and perhaps I'm being picky. I love the length of hip-to-hock. Should produce a nice sweeping stride.
It's so hard to predict the eventual outcome...but I'd say that shoulder will produce a nice uphill balance when she's done growing.
There's a good website on conformation assessment by the German Federation -- I don't have it bookmarked but you can Google it. Try "sport horse conformation" and "warmblood conformation standards" or some variation.
What a pretty girl!
Sarah
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 11, 2008 - 10:54 pm:
What are you going to use her for?
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 11, 2008 - 10:55 pm:
...and by the way... i think she is just awful and i will gladly hide her here for you.. 
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
wgillmor
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 11, 2008 - 10:55 pm:
Sarah,
Is this what your are referring to?
https://www.americantrakehner.com/SportHorse%20Conformation/SHCpart1.htm
It's from the Trakehner web site, but not specific to Trakehners.
Wiley
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New Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 12, 2008 - 12:17 am:
Thanks so much for such a detailed post Sarah and thank you Wiley for finding that article - it is greatly appreciated!! Also, thank you Ann for offering to board her for me (grin), but I think that I would like to keep her closer to home. I am looking at returning to eventing }after a 20 yr absence from competing and having horses. I think that she just might be my dream horse that I have been working towards, and saving for, for the past few years. It is a big commitment for me which is why I am looking for assistance from the wonderful people on this forum, which I came across yesterday - it's quite amazing. I also am looking at this fella, he's 3 and 1500 less then the filly, but she really has my heart. Again, and suggestions/comments are really welcome & appreciated.
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New Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 12, 2008 - 12:17 am:
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 12, 2008 - 2:41 am:
On the base of her pedigree we could perhaps tell you more about how her ancestors were used and for how long and if there were other things you should look at?
Glad to help if you give the information.
Jos
PS Just Curious why a warmblood for eventing and to what level?
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New Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 12, 2008 - 4:58 am:
Hi Jos,
Thanks so much for replying. Her sire was Fabuluex (Hanoverian standing at Bridlewood Hanoverians), with his pedigree including Fabriano, SPS Auguste, Wendulan, Agmara, Augustinus XX, and SPS Atlanta. Her dam is a Canadian warmblood out of Donner Bube (Oldenburg)& DR Kall Gall, with their pedigree including Donnerhall, St. Pr. Aldate, Wodan, and Kaw Gal (TB).
I have always wanted a warmblood and am now 43 yrs old, so if I cannot get back into eventing form, then pursuing dressage would be my next option, or lower level show jumping. At my age, I am past the dream of 4 star competing and my goal would be to get back to preliminary if possible. I really do appreciate the assistance with this. }
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 12, 2008 - 6:03 am:
Welcome Inuktik,
You will find both general and specific concepts on conformation at, References » Equine Illustrations » Leg Anatomy and Conformation.
DrO
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 12, 2008 - 6:21 am:
Hello Inuktik, Found the filly on a yearling sale site with pedigree and all.
[If it is the same] she seems an excellent prospekt, Old Hanoverian blood mixed with a firm shot of TB.[3third or fourth generationmother TB to]
Apart from the fact that especially the Donnerhall line can give a bit heavy [or 'oldfashioned'] horses,in this case I think solved by using enough TB I think an impeccable lineage. You could expect a very good Dressagehorse and ditto broodmare[not what you are looking for but you never know an extra option is always good ]with according to the family a very good character[ there are stallions in this line that have worked long and hard without known problems]
Showjumping could be less good but that you never know you need to try and I mean on high level.
With this amount of TB and soundness build in in the pedigree and also willingness to work a good choice for eventing to if you don't plan to win the Olympics[but that too you never know ]
If it is the same horse as in the site: loved pictures and conformation too
Hope this helps and please keep us posted.
Jos
PS If you want information on the gelding too just give the parents. Remember though I am generalizing on the base of what I've seen and heard of the family.
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New Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 12, 2008 - 7:00 am:
Thanks so much for the welcome Dr. O and pointing me in the right direction for information. Also, many thanks Jos for your feedback and input, it is greatly appreciated. The gelding's sire is WH Leader, who has in his pedigree, Landadel, Grandezza, Grannus and Loyale. His dam is not given, but her sire was Sagittarius which has Sirius in the line} and the dam's grandfather (hope that makes sense)is given as being Bold Battle. Again, thanks so much for all of the help as I am trying to find my horse legs and get back involved with this wonderful animal :-)
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 12, 2008 - 9:04 am:
Is the second picture a gelding, not the filly as there is no white..
The bloodlines of the filly scream dressage , Like jos said you also would have a nice breeding mare as well..
Have fun..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
sureed
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 12, 2008 - 12:13 pm:
Inuktic,
I dont' know as much about judging conformation and lines as jos, and Sarah and Ann, but I am familiar with Landadel having bred into the line with good result. Below is what is said about him on the site where two of his sons stand. Landadel's grandson, Lantinus, is the 10th ranked Grand Prix jumper in the world and has qualified for the Olympics. Also, the names on the Dam side imply TB bloodlines. If Bold Battle is a TB with Bold Ruler in its bloodlines that also speaks well for jumping and endurance and heart. Bold Ruler was the sire of Secretariat as well as the sire of several world class Grand Prix jumpers.
"Landadel was one of the most popular and successful stallions of his generation who sadly died at a young age in 1996. Hardly a second sire deserves the label "foundation sire" as much as he does. His uniform transmission of type, nobility, color, movement and predisposition for jumping is second to none. He produced multiple licensing champion stallions, SPS mares, grand prix offspring and his presence is strongly noticed in the recent Federal and European championships. Landadel is 5th in the Hanoverian index with offspring over $30.000 earnings even though he is a Holsteiner."
Good Luck with search. Looks like you have two very nice options already.
Suzanne
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Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 12, 2008 - 2:38 pm:
Hi Ann, yes the second picture is of the gelding. I was set to make the drive when his owner emailed me to let me know that she was increasing his price by 2000.00, so I started to expand my search a bit,given that my budget was increasing :-) and happened across the filly.
Thank you Suzanne for the information on the gelding's pedigree, it is really appreciated and all this information is super to have. I hope everyone is having a great day!!}
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Friday, Jun 13, 2008 - 3:57 am:
Hy Inuktik, additional info on the gelding: Landadel[there are two approved sires called Landadel but this one is Landgraf x Farnese and totally Holstein bred] strew from time to time[due to the Farnese blood] big and small children, also the Landgraf blood though giving exceptional showjumpers[and the odd dressage horse] gave veterinary problems regularly to[less hardy then the mares lines]but don't forget this exceptional stallion bred long and gave so many children there were thus also mare not so suitable for him bred by him due to his popularity.
Grannus gave the same problems[though Oldenburger with a dot of Trakehener] sometimes not to easy characters and from time to time small front feet.
Sirius I do not know but I seem to remember he has some Trakehner blood.
Bold Ruler lines gave very good showjumpers[plus the dressagehorse Bartock walking in my pasture ] but usually gave difficult characters too.
This one I would want to try out better then the mare based on his pedigree[vetted and looked at his 'working attitude] But it is a gelding so in the end if the horse is fine the papers are unimportant
Good luck and hope you let us know how you get on.
Jos
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Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Friday, Jun 13, 2008 - 8:11 pm:
Thanks again Jos for all of this super information. I know I have said this alot, but it is really appreciated. I am definitely leaning towards the filly and am wondering what people would recommend that I have done for a prepurchase exam given her age, especially regarding x-rays.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 14, 2008 - 3:39 am:
Always pleased to 'talk' about my favourite topic.
I think on paper the mare IS the better one but of course you need to see them to decide[question of taste too]
Everything older then six months I had always x rayed[with hocks and knees] if the x rays were good and the horse sound further only a general health exam by an experienced vet. If the x rays gave some doubts : experienced clinic and advice of a vet you really trust to make the call[and perhaps a second opinion from Dr.O?]
Trust me it is worth the money if only to make you feel you've taken every precaution, it's no guarantee but you eliminate a lot of problems.
Jos
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 14, 2008 - 3:44 am:
I forgot to mention, but perhaps you already know, especially the lines of the mare are 'late'. They usually don't do very well when put to work early.[I don't mean learning her stuff but real physic conditioning]
Jos
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 14, 2008 - 8:28 am:
We have an article that explains the ins and out of a prepurchase exam including the positives and negatives of radiographs at Horse Care » Routine Horse Care » Prepurchase Exam of the Horse.
DrO
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Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 15, 2008 - 5:15 pm:
Hi Jos and Dr. O,
Thanks again to the both of you for all of this valuable information. I really appreciate having your input Jos as to what you have been doing with your horses & having access to these articles, is completely fantastic Dr. O (hopefully not to be sounding too much over the top with my excitement). I actually am lucky as the filly is located a short distance from a city that has one of Canada's veterinary colleges. I was hoping to narrow down what would be needed regarding X-rays as a full exam from the vet school, with everything x-rayed, is about 1000.00, and she is 11K. I also am looking at getting insurance on her. I am hoping to read Dr. O's article after work this evening & only x-raying hocks and knees, as you suggested Jos, would cut down the cost. I hope that I am not imposing here, but Jos what sort of schedule would you be recommending regarding training for the filly? I am hoping that basic saddle work could start when she is 3, not much cantering or too much work on transitions, but basically used to having someone on her back and walking out, and working in a long rein with beginning work into the bit, though not much. I was thinking about 2 months of this and then putting her back out to pasture, aside from nice hacks out. When she is 4, again bring her back and continue with flat work for about 3 months, then turn out with hacks. I was not planning any jumping work until she was 5 or 6. Some people have suggested x-raying growth plates before starting jumping. Again, MANY thanks for being so helpful and forthcoming with information & I hope everyone is having a super weekend!!
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Monday, Jun 16, 2008 - 4:03 am:
Inuktik as for vetting her I would try to keep the costs down certainly if they will be about 10% of the whole horse so start with the most important thing perhaps clinical exam and radiograph any'suspicious' parts.As soon as the insurance is OK with it I would be too. But I am used to saying goodbye to horses from time to time and would sell her if she grew up into something not quite to my liking keep that in mind with my advice. Other members might give a different advice.
The training question will be much better answered by other members with more experience in this sector.
We started a young horse in good condition in the winter of 2,5 years then put them back in the fields for the summer same at 3,5 and the late ones sometimes even the next year. It is not the weight which will bother such a big young horse it is 'real training' as long as they didn't get tired we worked in an indoor arena during the winter with lungeing, riding, free jumping and even a little jumping under the saddle as soon as the horse was comfortable with it. This was due to the climate in Holland. In Normandy they can go out on a little trailride. They just usually aren't ready to work steady and perhaps show a whole year long before being adult.
That's what I would call a 'normal'time table.
Please keep us posted on how you go on
Jos
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Monday, Jun 16, 2008 - 9:46 am:
Hi,
These are both lovely horses, and I certainly can't offer the same analysis that Jos and others can on pedigree. From a sport horse perspective, their necks seems a scoche short to me, but I like the giraffes!
I do wonder whether it wouldn't be a shorter path to your dream to purchase an older horse already under saddle. Of course it is wonderful to find babies, especially gorgeous and well-bred ones, but every moment they are growing up is time you don't ever get back for riding.
My favorite riding horse shattered his leg playing 6.5 years ago. I searched for his replacement, and bought my dream colt at 8 months old. That youngster is 6 now, and finally old enough and mature enough for hard work (he's been under saddle since the fall of his 3rd year, but no power on earth could hurry him up). He is green now, but ready and able.
I ended up finding other horses to fill the gap, and now I own a lot of horses! But in retrospect, I would be farther along towards my own dream if I had found a horse that was ready when I was. And I have spent the money I saved in time and fill-in horses and baby raising and so on.
Just a thought-- if you want to ride, perhaps consider a riding horse that can start now.
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Member:
babychop
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Posted on Monday, Jun 16, 2008 - 10:27 am:
Elizabeth makes a valid point. Been there, done that and am in the middle of a yearling & a 3month old (again) myself. It's a long time before you get into the real work. Don't get me wrong, it's rewarding to raise your own babies but it's an awful long time spent on the ground.
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Member:
sarahb47
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Posted on Monday, Jun 16, 2008 - 2:34 pm:
Elizabeth raises a valid point about the value of being able to ride now, instead of waiting for the baby to grow up.
I've always loved to breed and raise my own, but now, at 58, I'm much more aware of the time factor. Also, a little less than a year ago I lost a gorgeous two-year-old warmblood gelding to wobbler's synDrOme. (See the article here on this.)
Terrific bloodlines (Belgian warmblood sire, Eros, with dressage and jumping lines; local QH mare with a lot of TB in her and a lot of jumping talent). We bred by AI, with plenty of trouble and expense to do it. The baby had superb conformation and a wonderful personality, very level-headed. He was starting longe work, knew his voice commands, self-loaded in my trailer, had traveled to shows and been ponied on trail rides. This was to be my "last great horse," destined to be my partner and carry me gracefully into my elder years. I was looking into having him inspected/registered with American Belgian Warmblood Society and/or RPSI.
I'd been careful with his feed and conditioning, being very aware that warmbloods can have trouble with developmental issues such as OCD. He was diagnosed with wobbler's last August and we had him euthanized just before his second birthday. It was devastating, and it took me several months to get back to riding my other horses.
I'm not saying "don't purchase a baby," just suggesting that you should weigh the pros and cons thoroughly. It's not just the time factor -- many things can go awry with the young ones.
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Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Monday, Jun 16, 2008 - 3:38 pm:
Thanks everyone for sharing your personal experiences with me and you raise some very valid points and concerns that I need to thoroughly weigh. So, I am at the point that I need to buckle down and do some serious thinking AND more reading. Again, thank you!! Sarah, I can only imagine what you went through with your fella. I would find that devastating as well.
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Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Friday, Jul 11, 2008 - 11:41 pm:
Hello everyone,
Hope you all are doing well!! We made the drive to see the filly today and had her prepurchase exam done. We had the fetlocks and hocks x-rayed. The vet just called back and said that there may be a spot in one hock and he is having the surgeon look at it tomorrow and then he will call us. One thing that I am a bit worried about is that she is cow hocked in the back and seems to travel quite close, though is not brushing when she is moving. The owner said that the filly's mom was "worse" when she was younger, than the filly is now, and that she "improved" as she got older. I have been away from horses for 15 years, and have not had any previous experience with warmbloods. Some of the ones that I have seen recently, as 4 & 5 year olds, do seem somewhat cow hocked. Unfortunately we were unable to take any pictures of her today, camera problems, but I do have these from when she was a weanling. Any and all help is appreciated!! Thanks!!
Okay - I just tried to upload the pictures but the file is too large and I am on the computer at the hotel. If you go to www.onlinefoalauction.com and click on the picture of the foal auction and then the tab auction, you will find her pictures under Firefly. Again, thank you.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 - 3:27 am:
Sorry couldn't get in the site .
What exactly do you mean by cowhocked? The angle of the hock imo will not change, if you mean she is sloppy walking and her hind legs get to close to each other it could be the growing. Then I would think she just hasn't enough power. If so don't forget this could mean you buy a 'late' horse so your training schedule needs to be adjusted.
If her hock [at this age] isn't impeccable I would consider not to accept it. You are buying a young horse there are plenty of them why take risks? Each month you have no horse to board your budget get's bigger. But I am perhaps a bit harsh[experience] and other members will put me in my place.
Jos
PS Warmbloods[again my opinion] are certainly less 'hard' than TBs or arabcrosses or your local races, so be careful!There best part is the showjumping and dressageability, and what could well do in a show arena might not do in eventing[we got quite a shock when we started exporting horses that were in our opinion veterinary good when we found out how they had to live[footing of paddocks and outdoors. Very different from Holland and Germany and it gave especially in first generations often problems]
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Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 - 9:48 am:
Thanks for trying to get to the site Jos. I am not doing a very good job of explaining, but some of the stances that she took, while standing yesterday, with her back end - it was like her stifle was outward facing and her left back toe was facing almost sideways. She could correct this and stand with this hoof facing more forward. The vet said that her conformation was "within normal limits with no glaring abnormalities." Her owner said that she has noticed that the filly prefers to walk or canter and doesn't seem to trot much. Again, thanks Jos for your input and my husband is much of the mindset that you are if there is a hock problem. }
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Member:
babychop
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 - 11:00 am:
Inuktik, the cowhocked thing can be corrected to some degree with a corrective trim every 6 weeks like clockwork depending on her age, etc. It probably won't fix it all together but it will help if you get on it during the growing stages and are consistent. If you can find one that doesn't have that issue to begin with you're ahead of the game. It is a conformational fault & it boils down to whether it's something that really bothers you & if you want to deal with it or not, sicle (sp?) hocked horses are another issue all together & I just can't stand to look at 'em.
One thing I would stress, conformational defects can be precursors to injury. Some horses may never be affected in that fashion but it is a predisposition to it.
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Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 - 12:31 pm:
Thanks for the information Andrea. We are heading out to see her again today and I will be taking pictures this time, and hopefully some short video clips, of her moving to upload when we get home. I spoke with the vet this am and he indicated that he saw a "small opacity" on one of her hocks that he would like their surgeon to see as he is not an expert in interpreting radiographs. As it is the weekend, and they have had no emergency presentations to the college, no one was in this morning, so we will wait to hear about this on Monday. I realize that I may be sounding like a "nervous nelly" here, but I have been away from horses so long as well as never having any previous experience with warmbloods. I really appreciate all the help that people have been providing, thanks!!}
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 - 1:57 pm:
You really don't sound as a 'nervous nellie'[nice!] to me and if you do your homework now the way you do good chance you will not end up to be one because of the horse you bought!
Looking forward to pictures!
Jos
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 - 2:43 pm:
Cow-hocked and base narrow may not be fatal flaws for dressage. Many breeders select for that, since base narrow horses have an easier time with extension. Try bending your knees and taking long jog strides with your legs spread wide and then with them close-- the narrow base of support lets you lengthen your stride w/o losing your balance.
Cow hocks often follow base narrow on a wider-framed horse. They are conformation flaws, but base narrow especially is not a lethal one. It can be tricky for jumping, though I own several base narrow horses who are excellent jumpers, and handy on their feet.
But this all presumes a crystal ball where she fills out properly, gains strength behind, and avoids injury, disease, mental derangement etc.. And I agree that anything significant on the x-rays should be a deal breaker.
If you came to my ranch to look at one of my babies, and told me what you have told us here, I would try hard to talk you out of buying a youngster.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 12, 2008 - 6:42 pm:
While it is a self evident truth that the legs will grow apart with age Inuktuk, conformation should be evaluated "as is" and "hopes" for improvements should not really factor into it. If the conformation is not acceptable now it could be time to look on. I am not evaluating the horse just want you to think about how you are looking at the decision.
I would note that concerning cow-hocked horses you can not adjust the leg positioning. You can change the rotation of the feet so that they face more forward but this often introduces extra rotational stress to the fetlock.
DrO
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Member:
36541
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 13, 2008 - 8:08 am:
Hi Inuktik, I have only had the time to lurk on the site of late, but I had to jump in here. Congrats on your return to horse life - personally I am waiting with rabid fever for my two kids to be in school late August so I can have a riding schedule again! That said, of the last three horses I bred, only one fulfilled the promise of his lineage, and he is just returning to work after a year off for injury! Please consider buying a 6 or 7 year old who is already eventing, perhaps at training level? It is a buyer's market right now, so prices are right. I think you could get a show-ready horse for under what you are willing to pay for the filly, and be in competition by September! I wouldn't limit myself to warmbloods as many of the other breeds can do 2cnd or 3d level dressage with no problem. This way, conformation is well on its way to finished, temperment and suitability will be evident, and your risk of injury is less or equal but at least you would get hurt while actually riding! Best wishes, Stacy Upshaw
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 13, 2008 - 10:50 am:
Though I love young ones and will be happy to give all the information I can give you I do agree with Stacy.
My young ones are always 'surplus' in a way, if they do not grow into what I want or expect it's not that bad but you would probably have to sell and look again.
Jos
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Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 13, 2008 - 5:48 pm:
Thanks again everyone for all of your assistance with this, it is all so appreciated. All of your comments have been so helpful, in their own ways, so please forgive me for not mentioning names and specifics for what I am learning from all of you. We have just gotten home, so I am looking through the pictures we have taken and the owner gave me a cd of footage of the filly as well. We currently live in Calgary, Alberta, Canada and the market here has been holding at the high price end, especially with horses that have training under their belt and are actively competing. I have to admit that I have been drawn to youngsters as I am feeling that I am a good 1 to 2 years from being in the physical shape that I want to be in when back riding and competing. My main concern is weight related as I went back to university at age 39 in a year round 20 month intensive bachelors nursing program. I got the marks, but I found that the "freshman 15 or 20" rule was more than that with myself :-( I really don't want the horse to be carrying more weight then is necessary, and I am sure that the extra weight could affect my leg position as well. My sitting trot wasn't bad when I was younger, but I have to admit that I am shuddering at the thought of doing one right now. I want to apologize for going on and ramblng here, but I am still trying to process and sift through things. I hope that wherever everyone is that the sun is shining and that you have been able to enjoy being with your lovely animals.
Sincerely,
Shelly
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Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 13, 2008 - 10:48 pm:
Okay, here are the pictures. I felt that the easiest way was to send this link, versus posting here and taking up room on the server. Wow, we did so not take good pictures of her. Her "beauty shots," as I refer to them, are taken by her breeder's friend who is a professional and got some great pictures. The cd we currently have is over an hour long and I am so not a technical person, that I am still working on how to save portions of it. Again, I really can't say enough how great you all have been!! Thank you. The link is:
https://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=44465&l=ed090&id=551007107
This second link is of our "boys" (Inukshuk and Tikanni) at 3 months old on their first trip to the mountains. They are extremely fond of their grandparents!!
https://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3686&l=e2f9a&id=551007107
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Member:
sarahb47
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Posted on Monday, Jul 14, 2008 - 12:32 am:
Hi Shelly,
Great collection of pictures!
I LOVE her sturdy front end, except for one little thing: in a dressage horse I'd look for a cleaner, thinner throatlatch. It could be hard for her to flex at the poll with a thick throatlatch.
I see what you mean with your concerns about her being cow-hocked and traveling narrow behind.
I've had a couple of very nice horses with similar conformation, and they stayed sound for decades. Rather than focus on the cow-hocks, I'd ask whether her hind legs travel straight through each step. If the legs move straight forward and the hocks don't look like they're rotating or twisting in the traveling motion, I wouldn't worry too much about her being a bit narrow behind. (But I would listen carefully to a veterinary analysis of the "slight opacity," as that could be an issue!)
She does look more powerful in the front than the rear, which is a little unusual -- yearlings usually look bigger in the hindquarters and less-developed in front, with the front end growing and catching up later.
Now that I'm approaching the big six-oh, I'm more concerned about a young horse's brain than their perfect conformation. I look first for the good mind, then for the good legs. If you get those two things, and the overall balance is there, you've probably got a lovely horse.
Sarah (not taking my own advice, and still riding youngsters. I own a 5 yr old local QH with loads of brains, thankfully, a 4 yr old QH, and a 3 yr old OTTB. What was I thinking...)
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Monday, Jul 14, 2008 - 4:11 am:
Lovely pics and I adore the dogs!!
I my experience a foal or weanling which is correct usually grows into the same conformation[given proper growing conditions and good farrier] and she seems a very nice foal. I like her very much but I am used to warmbloods and perhaps partial.
If you want to look for faults I would say [just to complicate your life] her frontlegs seem slightly 'bent back ' in the front knee. Don't know the proper English term. If I am right that won't change and would worry me more then her hindlegs. They seem very 'clean' and at her growing stage you can allow for a little bit of sloppiness[Take a good farrier though!] Ofcourse I would want impeccable radiographs[as a breeder but when looking for a horse for myself most certainly]
I agree perhaps her neck /throatlatch could be a little more perfect but her mother seems to use her neck well when showed with bit and bridle, so for your purpose I would accept that part You will not find a perfect horse!
After reading your explanation on prices[Calgary I should have known!] and your own situation I think you don't choose badly. Over here adult horses that are for sale usually are VERY expensive too or you are buying someone elses problems.
I really like her pedigree, pics, mum, and given a clean vet bill wouldn't hesitate, but I think you are now getting in the stage you have taken all the sensible steps and need to follow your heart.
In the end you buy a horse because you really want to have THAT animal.[seeing your dogs I am sure you understand]
Don't forget that given the circumstances if you take good care of her and she ends up not being quite your riding horse you have a more valuable horse you can sell or trade for a better suiting one['worst case scenario' ofcourse horses are able to invent much worser [?] cases read our posts]and in the meantime had fun.
For a young German horse I think you could expect less hind end more front, to me she doesn't look unusual.
I have perhaps been very long but I tried to explain my reasoning so you can use what you like and I think after the vet the decision is now up to you.
Whatever you decide imo you have taking great pains to make a balanced decision now you need a horse and a bit of luck[don't we all?]
Jos
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Member:
babychop
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Posted on Monday, Jul 14, 2008 - 11:06 am:
How funny, I had happened on Firefly on a search page looking for something to do! She IS lovely & honestly, I don't think, judging from the photos, that her 'cow hocked' issue is much to worry about, it appears very slight.
I thought she had such a strange marking from her photo on that site but now see that it must've been a scrape across her face... Pretty girl!
Dr O, I had not heard about the rotational stress on the fetlock but that does make sense, both my farrier & vet said that corrective trimming (and exercise) could help correct it (one of my colts toes out quite a bit) - his left hind is more severe than his right and he tends to stand with that leg cocked forward & out... So, my question would be this, would the corrective trims have any beneficial effect or would it be asking for trouble? And given Inuktik's concern with this particular filly & the slight case shown in the photos would you suggest she leave it alone or try to correct it?
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Monday, Jul 14, 2008 - 3:02 pm:
You didn't ask this question, but it's been brought up and I certainly second it--a good mind trumps a lot of minor imperfections in my opinion. Conversely, a horse with impeccable breeding and conformation but lacking a good mind is a horse I'd walk, no RUN, away from! I looked at about 200 weanlings last year and settled on three because they had the best minds of the bunch. And that has been a blessing every day as their training progresses. On all the weanlings I looked at, three things had to be in place: Conformation, breeding and mind. If the first two were perfect, but the mind wasn't, I passed. Now I have three lovely, well bred yearlings who are a joy to work with. (Actually, one reminds me of Firefly for some reason--she's a buckskin quarter horse, so I don't know what connection I've made!?) You will have much time working with a yearling before you ever put a foot in a stirrup and a great mind--not just a good mind--will decide how much you enjoy that. Now, as Jos has said, follow your heart, all other things being equal. Enjoy, Julie
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Monday, Jul 14, 2008 - 4:06 pm:
Shelly, I think she is lovely.. I don't see any cow hocks in the photos you have posted, it appears her hocks are pointed directly behind her in the hindend picture.. She might be a little base narrow right now.. most young horses are.. She might be a little long backed for my tastes, but that again is hard to say in this awkward stage of growth..
It is a very slow market right now so you have room to negotiate I would imagine.. Take advantage of that and winter coming on..
You do have a place for this filly to grow up ? She will do better living outdoors 24/7 with shelter to go into..
Good luck young horses are very rewarding..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Monday, Jul 14, 2008 - 5:04 pm:
Hi everyone,
I just had a quick chance to log on here at work, as I am working a double at the hospital today, and am really overwhelmed by the thoughtful, inspiring, and honest comments everyone has made. I just wanted to let you know that I really appreciate them and will comment more thoroughly when I have more time to gather my thoughts. Hope this day is going well for you all :-)
Shelly
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Member:
babychop
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Posted on Monday, Jul 14, 2008 - 5:56 pm:
Well Shelly, we all DO love horses! And such a lovely filly... Ann, if you look on the second page it's a hair more pronounced & you really have to be looking for it, you can also see that she toes out just a smidge. But as I mentioned before, it's very slight. I wouldn't worry about it if it doesn't affect her movement & I really doubt it does (of course this is my opinion). Remember, there's no such thing as a perfect horse! My boy is more pronounced & it doesn't affect him when he's moving but you notice it when he's standing.
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Monday, Jul 14, 2008 - 6:32 pm:
I took a second look at the pictures.. how old is this filly? lunging and riding? The pictures show some open knees /growth plates.. She has a LOT of growing left to do !!!
The photos of the front legs are not good, she is never stood up square and appears to be turning in them? I have a mare that toes out slightly as well.. maybe that is why i don't really notice it..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.
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Member:
sarahb47
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Posted on Monday, Jul 14, 2008 - 7:27 pm:
Hi Ann,
If you look at the captions under the photos of the horse being longed, you'll see that those two pictures are of "Firefly's mom", not the filly! I did a double-take also, until I noticed that it's not the same horse.
Shelly, I looked at those hind legs again and I don't think you have anything to worry about regarding cow-hocks. If her brain is good, go for it!
If it doesn't work out, send her to me....
Sarah
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Monday, Jul 14, 2008 - 7:43 pm:
For your goals, I don't think toeing out this slight will affect soundness. Yearlings will often toe out a bit and straighten as their chest widens and elbows move outward, if she is straight from the middle of the knee through the middle of the pastern. If there were deviation in this line, it would be more note worthy. I'm not sure if cow hocks will do the same, but my farrier says he notices a lot of youngsters stand a bit cowhocked and yet travel very straight.
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Monday, Jul 14, 2008 - 8:03 pm:
in my quest for a horse of my own I have read numerous reports on conformation.
One of the most intersting points on conformation I have read is that some towing out behind for some disciplines is actually preferable to absolute straight legs. This is to aid the horse in stepping deep under himself as required by dressage and reiners.
For a yearling she looks very balanced and well muscled, is she only a year in these pictures?
Just for your consideration;
I have been looking for a horse for myself and originally looked at youngsters.
However, after serious and honest discussion with myself about what I wanted to do with the horse I decided I would benefit most from a horse that had some education itself.
Rather than starting from preschool with the horse and slowing coming along, (been there done that several times- then sold the horse) if I purchased a horse that I could start riding, that at least had the basics preferably more, then I could have fun riding and I would be perhaps three years further along in my own riding skills than if I had to wait for a younster to grow up.
Being honest with myself, while I love working with babies and bringing them along, I really want to ride and learn to ride better.
After having been looking for a number of months I know there are horses with training 'out there', in AB and BC.
Since you are in Calgary you could also try Sask.
I looked but decided not to pursue that area because of the distance.
Just something to think about.
Lori
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Jul 14, 2008 - 8:07 pm:
Andrea it depends on what you mean by "corrective trimming" of a foot that is toed out. If you mean you are trimming to keep the foot aligned with the pastern and fetlock then you are relieving stress. If you are trimming to make the feet point straight ahead when the pastern and fetlock are rotated outward then you are increasing stress.
DrO
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Member:
babychop
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 15, 2008 - 11:04 am:
That makes perfect sense Dr. O, thanks! I may start another thread w/photos on that subject & discuss w/my farrier as well.
Shelly, Lori does have a very good argument but it's been touched on in this post previously so I'm sure you've been mulling it. It seems to me your heart lies with the younger ones (don't we all at one time want to start from the beginning to make sure our baby is brought up right???).
It is a wonderful, frustrating, delightful, enlightening path to start young and a life adventure at the very least. You will both learn from each other though I find it often does call for assistance from an outside hand and you will have instances where you're discouraged. In the end it's all about what you really want, time for some soul searching. Firefly in my opinion is a lovely filly, a bit heavy in the neck from what I see but she appears to have nice movement. Follow your heart girl, it's you that you have to make happy.
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Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 15, 2008 - 12:30 pm:
Good morning everyone!! I just really want to say thank you to everyone for your comments and help in working through this issue - you all have been quite remarkable and the warmth and genuiness of your responses is appreciated. My husband spoke with the vet at the college in Saskatoon yesterday and he will be heading out to see Firefly this afternoon to take new x-rays of her one hock, so hopefully I will know more information later today. I really like her owner as she has a down to earth, practical, and good setup for her horses. My thoughts were to leave Firefly at her place for at least another year in order to give her as much of a good start on proper growth and development possible. Kim is much more cognizant of the feeding requirements for growing warmblood babies & ensuring that she is not overfed. Plus, she is on pasture turn out with several other horses 24/7 except in really cold weather. The only downside is that it is a 16 hour roundtrip to go see her, but I really feel that the benefits to Firefly would be worth it. I have yet to find a stable around Calgary that I would feel comfortable having her at, so that is another work in progress - Lori do you know of any good stables in the Calgary area? I also would be interested in hearing about any tips that you may have for me in searching for horses in Alberta and BC. I will admit that I have been an "chair buyer," in that I am mainly doing most of the searches for horses via the internet as work has been hectic. Well, my coffee break is over so time to get back to work. I have only touched on a few things in this post, and I have more to say, if you can bear with me :-) This "heart/head" dichotomy thing can be quite exasperating. And, as I am finding myself quite annoying right now, I can only imagine how it must seem to others :-) Hope you all have a good day.
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Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 15, 2008 - 9:53 pm:
Well, we got some news today as my husband spoke with the vet in Saskatoon. Apparently her (and this is second hand from my husband)"left hock has a slight lesion which is a bone fragment on the lateral trochlear ridge." He is recommending at this time that we speak to one of the college's surgeons as he "would want to operate sooner rather than later." There is currently no swelling or lameness being shown. "X-rays of the other sites are unremarkable." So, now I am into reading and researching mode on OCD. My questions are what would be the possibility of reoccurrence of this, once surgery was done and is there anyway to determine if this is trauma based or genetics as we were starting to think about breeding her down the road, if we purchased her. Many thanks in advance everyone and I am off to search for info on this super site.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 16, 2008 - 4:32 am:
I will not buy a yearling that has been well taken care for that needs an ocd operation. I would not breed her too. Whenever we had ocd horses they were operated [sooner rather then later] and sold as riding horse.
Don't forget this horse has been well taken care for, if she has a problem it is [most possible] not a reaction to bad food or not enough space to move about.
Reflect on one other thing. Looking at the email site she has been on the market for a while, perhaps because someone else didn't want to take the chance?
A very wellknown vet once said to me: Why buy a problem at a young age if you don't have to?
Even if she didn't need an operation I would not buy her a youngster needs to be impeccable[just my opinion] healthwise because so many other things are already unsure.
Hope I am not to blunt if so excuse me.
Jos
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Member:
36541
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 16, 2008 - 6:47 am:
OK, give her a mental hug and run, don't walk away! I did some unrequested vicarious shopping for you(cause I sure don't need another horse...) on www.equinehits.com using the advanced search option. I found about 40 eventing candidates in your province between 4-8 years, all under 10K. I did not limit breed, and I set height above 15h. If I do the math here, you will have 20K in the filly before you ever sit on her, assuming all goes well. Head and pocketbook need to prevail. I also use www.equine.com's advanced search, because they have a parameter that searches by the horse's experience in the chosen discipline. I can look at "competed or shown" to weed out the "prospects" for eventing. I also like www.dreamhorse.com. Perhaps you have looked on all these sites and come up blank - if that is so I would implore you to consider warmblood crosses or any breed horse who has already proven they can do the job. On the rider fitness side of things, I find it much more motivating to stay trim if I have a competition schedule on my planner. Richard Simmons has nothing on white breeches when it comes to incentive!! Best of luck, and remember that the cheapest part of horse ownership is the purchase price... Stacy Upshaw
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 16, 2008 - 7:00 am:
Stacy, Love your practical attitude  and couldn't agree more.
Shelly If you decide to look further why not ask on this board to if somebody knows of a nice prospekt.
Jos
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 16, 2008 - 7:45 am:
Inuktic, I have been reading through the posts, and I'm sorry to hear the filly has issues....sounds as if you really had your heart set on her, and it's easy to see why. But, Stacy gives very, very good advice. There are many good horses available, and I'm sure that in time you will find the perfect partner.
All the best of luck.
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 16, 2008 - 9:20 am:
Oh Shelly, you must be so disappointed to hear about the problem. It sounds to me like you really were hoping this would be the horse for you!
Rutgers University here in NJ has been raising warmbloods from Canada for their Equine Science program. I have followed it for years, and once owned a yearling from the program. They have had horses that had lesions. Some with surgery, some self correcting.
That said, I am with the majority here in saying go find the right horse, not the horse you hope will be right. Once you factor in years of board, vet, training, etc., as well as several 16 hour round trips(!), you will probably find out that a made horse isn't so expensive after all!
Here is a link to the Can-Am horse. They are bred for sporthorse competition and hunting. Don't be scared by the "draft-cross" on the home page. They are not all draft crosses, some are pure Hanoverians, TB-warmbloods, etc.
I personally have seen some beauties from Ravine Ranch as well as Early Dawn Sporthorses from the Rutgers program. Check them out. Many breeders will deliver your horse for you, too.
At least just have fun looking!
Erika
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Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 16, 2008 - 9:39 am:
Thanks everyone - you rock!! This includes you too Jos , and no you are not being too blunt as what everyone is saying is what I need to hear. It is so great to have your input and support in this forum as I have yet to get reconnected with a practical and sensible horse crowd here in Calgary. In doing some self-reflecting here, I think that going on this first quest for my "dream" horse has brought up unresolved issues for me and that my (what I thought were put to rest riding aspirations)are still lurking around....darnit...as I thought I was past this. Thanks Stacy and Erika for the good leads, I will be checking those out. Thanks Fran for the encouragement. I will keep you posted, if I am not dragging out this thread too long. All the best,
Shelly
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Member:
babychop
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 16, 2008 - 10:20 am:
Shelly, I think it's in your best interest to pass on this filly. I agree with the others, you're asking for trouble & lots of future heartbreak. Best to start fresh, you'll find something better if you keep looking & aren't in a hurry. Stacy has given you some good sites to search, don't forget https://www.warmbloods-for-sale.com/Default.asp just one more source. If you have a few favorite sires you can also check their sites as they often have young horses for sale there as well.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 16, 2008 - 11:44 am:
Shelly, what are your 'secret aspirations' exactly? Not trying to pry but best advice can be given with as much info as possible and it is always possible someone on this board can [and will] help.
Even if you go on with the yearling don't disappear but stay in touch, we try to advice based on experience and good sense but I for one don't always use it either and THAT'S when I really start needing advice.
Jos
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 16, 2008 - 4:09 pm:
Hello Inuktik,
Without seeing the lesion we really don't know much about it and all we can do is conjecture. These are usually developmental and once the fragment removed it will not recur but what we don't know is what is the prognosis once removed, that will have to come from the orthopod.
DrO
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 17, 2008 - 1:13 pm:
Inuktik, I am sorry to hear that the filly you liked has ocd, on the other hand it is a good thing to find out before you buy her.
Sorry I can't recommend a specific farm in Calgary.
Don't worry about voicing your concerns, esp if you don't have 'horsey' friends it is difficult to discuss how you feel and what you are looking for.
There is alot of great advice here.
I didn't mean to sound preachy in previous post. Sometimes I choose being practical over what I truly want, then end up somewhat frustrated.
A few more sites to try are:www.equinehits.com, www.horsefinders.com, www.toplinesporthorses.com, www.saddleup.ca, equinenow.com, www.gaitpost.com, and horsetopia.
Of course there are always the bargainfinder newspapers, anytime I heard someone was going to a different town I asked them to pick me up a newspaper.
Also, I checked boards at any barn I could and I talked to a number of coaches.
I found it totally overwhelming at times.
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Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Friday, Jul 18, 2008 - 2:48 pm:
Hi everyone,
Sorry for not replying sooner, but I have been laid up with a bit of a nasty bug. My husband told me this morning that the college called (WCVM - Western College of Veterinary Medicine) and the surgeon (Dr. Barber) cannot definitively say there is a lesion present based on the current radiographs, despite their going back to the farm twice more for same, since we were there to see her (at no cost to us). SIGH. So, the latest plan is for her owner to haul her to the college for the next set. I will say that the college has been really thorough and our cost thus far is only around 600. I actually took my 17.2 anglo-arab (I think he must have been a throw back to something, very much a warmblood build) there for surgery in 1983 for a pastern arthrodesis as he had high articular ringbone on his left hind. He had a full recovery after the surgery and was able to compete for 6 years afterwards, but the most important thing for me was that he was pain free and that he had a good quality of life afterwards. The surgery cost back then was 999 right on the nose, but I was able to use my scholarship money (from my Gr. 12 marks) to pay for it. Dr. Barber was one of the surgeons who operated on him in '83. As for my pesky (what I am calling them) aspirations, I was fortunate to be part of the young riders team many moons ago. I came up through the ranks on my anglo-arab, then moved on to a registered appy (chestnut with no spots)who had a huge attitude, but loved to jump. Eventually, in dressage, we could go from a w/t/c to a square halt with my tightening my abdominal muscles and a slight squeeze of reins. Our communication didn't always happen to that degree, but it still brings a smile to my face when I think of the moments it did. I wasn't able to continue on as it was time for me to head off to university and I was from a working middle class family. I funded having my horses from getting a job when I was 14 (and some help from my parents when I was younger), but I couldn't afford to compete,pay for their upkeep and pay for my tuition. Okay, sorry folks, I am definitely rambling on here...So, to answer your question Jos, I think that I may still want to pursue some upper level competition. Yeesh, I should have just come out with that statement, instead of going through that longwinded preamble!! Lori, you did not come off as being preachey in any way and thank you for sharing that you have felt overwhelmed and frustrated as well, as I am currently there. Also, thanks for providing those extra sites to search. I have learned so much from people here and I do apologize for not having responded to each post separately earlier on to thank everyone for their assistance- it also does help to hear that sometimes being sensible and practical is something that alot of us struggle with. I hope everyone is having a happy and healthy day!!
Shelly
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 3:33 am:
I liked your long post.Insight in peoples aspirations and lives makes answering questions easier[and I am curious]
I would like to say one thing and hope other members with more eventing experience will set me straight.
Apart from the fact this prospect perhaps has problems, her bloodlines are not exactly eventing lines, more dressage and showjumping. Why not do it good and look for where your heart lies immediately?
You still have time to do what you want take every help you can get by looking for a horse 'born' to this part of sports?
Hope you feel better,
Jos
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 10:19 am:
Yes, exactly what Jos said. That's what I was trying to say also, she just said it better.
Plan and buy for what is in your heart. Of course, sometimes it is hard to figure out what is in our heart. Life gets so muddled, we must be practical, and then of course,
that horse is sooo cute!
I think horses can develop enough of their own issues without buying one that needs surgery.
Then there's the thought of would you breed that mare later, knowing she could pass that problem on to her foals?
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Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 7:48 pm:
Thanks Jos and Lori for your input. I guess that my heart and head are both muddled at this point in time. As well, I do have some fears as to whether or not I can get myself back in top eventing form, being 43 and knowing that I am sure that I won't bounce as good as I used to . So, I think in having these sorts of thoughts and feelings is where I started to meander down the road of looking at warmbloods, especially those being referred to as the "modern sporty type" - still with good bone, but also some refinement for more speed(please feel free to correct me if this description is off base) AND then, even hedging my bets more, was my thinking that if I cannot regain my eventing form, then I would be well placed to pursue either dressage or showjumping with a warmblood. I need to do some deep soul searching and figure things out. You raise a good point Lori about breeding as I would not breed her if she has OCD. The surgeon at the college was not definitively willing to say that it was OCD on the first set of x-rays taken at the farm, so the owner is hauling her into the college next thursday or friday to have them taken there with their digital equipment (at no extra cost to us). If she did x-ray clean and we did buy her, I was thinking of taking her to the Hanoverian Verband mare inspection which is held at Spruce Meadows. I was not planning on taking her when she was 3, as I do not feel that she would be ready for the mare performance riding and jumping test at that age, but perhaps when she is 5, as her projected finishing height would be 16.2 to 16.3. Again, thanks guys for letting me sort out my thoughts here and for all of your great help!! BTW Jos, I was reading your thread on Cascade & what a spectacular fella. I think it's great that you are keeping him. Best wishes for a good weekend.
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Member:
babychop
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 8:27 pm:
Oooh Shelly, I'm right there with you @ 46 and let me tell you, you don't bounce the way you used to - I blew out the central bone in my wrist and all the ligaments around it a few years back and was just shy of having to have the whole mess fused. That after coming off my mare upside down (I'm sure the wrist saved me a broken neck as I landed on my face & wrist) which knocked me out cold ~ my boyfriend says I bounced & skid and that if he wasn't so worried he would have laughed his butt off... The whole thing was my fault as I wasn't paying attention & was just on her 'suicide' when the other horse (that I forgot was out too, silly me) came screaming down the hill with the Danes in hot pursuit which started a chain reaction.
I never say I was the brightest one mind you...
In light of that it may be wiser to look for an older horse. They tend to be a little more roadworthy. But then there is no such thing as a perfectly safe horse... As for the inspection, I am about to take my 4 month old to his inspection with the Oldenburg Verband & let me tell you, it's very stressful!!! (I plan to have someone else put some miles on him before I get up ~ I'm just getting too old for these youngsters...) So much rides on the outcome of the judges imo. Just my 2 cents.
I wish you luck & think that you're doing the right thing but worrying this thing through, talking to vets (and us!) & having x-rays taken. You're not going into it blind.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 - 4:04 am:
My worries about eventing with these bloodlines are more that she will not be 'hard' enough Shelly. Your conditions are already so different and so much more difficult for our WB we only send the hardiest and most perfect ones[xray wise] when we exported and even then they would be retired earlier then your average TB or AA .
Ofcourse exceptions prove the rule and it is not scientifically proved [and certainly not agreed by the Studbooks but they approvew even stallions with OCD]
To give an example I would never have exported Cascade[he was seriously ill as a foal and imo it damaged his 'hardiness'] even though his x rays are impeccable, but would send his sister Margot without a second thought she is as hard as you can find them.
It is a long search with a lot of thinking involved,but take your time. One of the most dependable riding horses I owned was a big TB so it's the individual you are looking at[though I think this yearling has a very nice outlook character problems I wouldn't expect]
Jos
PS You know Cascade's uncle[full brother of his mother was send to Calgary!]
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Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 - 8:15 pm:
Yaouch Andrea!! That must have been so painful. Thank you for sharing and I really hope that your wrist has healed. I can just imagine my husband saying the exact same thing (about laughing and being worried) as your partner. He is starting to come around to the idea of my returning to eventing, but he keeps saying "look at superman" and then I have to launch into my explanation (again) of what happened in that situation.
Thanks Jos for that explanation, "hardiness" makes complete sense to me and something that I will need to look into further. I would love to know who Cascade's uncle is, if you can share that. All the best everyone!!
Shelly
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Member:
babychop
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 - 10:20 pm:
LOL Shelly ~ Actually, it didn't hurt at the time, but Tony said my screams were ear-splitting when the doc put his foot on my shoulder & pulled my wrist back into joint in the emergency room, and that was with pain drugs! lol ~ all better now but at about 80% strength & flexion, the cast & pins for 3 months were the WORST.
Jos does make good sense with the hardiness explanation. My first horse had that one hind fetlock that just wasn't trustworthy & there were times when I'd go out all set to ride w/friends & it would be big as a cantaloupe. Just a chronic thing that required stall rest, you'd never know when it would flare up.
I would hope this filly wouldn't have a chronic issue but I would rely on what the vets think if you do think you might go with her. The hock is a crucial joint for what you want to do with her, it would make me leary but that's just my fear.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Monday, Jul 21, 2008 - 12:43 pm:
Cascade has many uncles from mothers side Etoile his Grandmoter had about 20 children of which two male were approved for some time in Holstein[Now that was a broodmare wasn't it?] We bought Corona she was from Reichsgraf x Etoile V Aldato MMV Warthburg.
Corona's full brother[he was two years older and should by now I think be 21] was gelded and sold at the Auction in Elmshorn to a Canadian new owner and by the Holsteiner Verband reported jumping 1.40m level. Gelding so no known name fam 474 A.
Jos
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Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 26, 2008 - 6:28 pm:
Hi everyone,
Well the saga continues. Firefly's owner hauler her to the college on thursday for digital x-rays. Now they are saying on the hock that there is a "slight abnormality but ir's within normal range." As she was at the college, we also decided to have her stifles x-rayed. SIGH. Now they are saying that there appears to be a "fracture or bone fragment" on one of her stifles which they are saying is trauma related. The owner is saying that she has noticed nothing over the past year regarding any injuries. However, Firefly did fall while being x-rayed, due to oversedation and received some scrapes. She happened to fall before they x-rayed the stifles. The surgeon is recommending arthroscopic surgery for further diagnosis, the owner is saying no-way to that at this point in time. Okay, the spidey senses are tingling and saying walk away, however, my impractical stubborn streak is saying that I would really like to know what is going on here. So, you wonderful people - including Dr. O - do you have any recommendations for who would be an expert to interpret her radiographs so we can get a second opinion???? USA based is fine with us as the owner was thinking about Colorado State or Pullman, as these were some names given to her by other owners. Since the x-rays are digital, i am hoping they can be emailed out. Many thanks everyone & I hope that you, family, and horses are doing well!!
Shelly
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Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 26, 2008 - 6:29 pm:
Hi everyone,
Well the saga continues. Firefly's owner hauled her to the college on thursday for digital x-rays. Now they are saying on the hock that there is a "slight abnormality but ir's within normal range." As she was at the college, we also decided to have her stifles x-rayed. SIGH. Now they are saying that there appears to be a "fracture or bone fragment" on one of her stifles which they are saying is trauma related. The owner is saying that she has noticed nothing over the past year regarding any injuries. However, Firefly did fall while being x-rayed, due to oversedation and received some scrapes. She happened to fall before they x-rayed the stifles. The surgeon is recommending arthroscopic surgery for further diagnosis, the owner is saying no-way to that at this point in time. Okay, the spidey senses are tingling and saying walk away, however, my impractical stubborn streak is saying that I would really like to know what is going on here. So, you wonderful people - including Dr. O - do you have any recommendations for who would be an expert to interpret her radiographs so we can get a second opinion???? USA based is fine with us as the owner was thinking about Colorado State or Pullman, as these were some names given to her by other owners. Since the x-rays are digital, i am hoping they can be emailed out. Many thanks everyone & I hope that you, family, and horses are doing well!!
Shelly
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Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 26, 2008 - 6:39 pm:
Hi Dr. O,
I forgot to mention that once we have the x-rays, I would like to post them here for you to have a look at them, if that's okay. Thanks!!
Shelly
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Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 2, 2008 - 7:46 pm:
Hi everyone,
I hope that all is well with you, family, horses and dogs!! I have started another thread "radiographic interpretation of 14 mo filly" as we got the hardcopy of the PPE this past friday, where they are saying that there is a possible OCD lesion in her right stifle as well as some left hock problems. I think that I am finally approaching the "give her a mental hug and run" stance. I also wanted to say that I hope I haven't said anything here to offend anyone. In reviewing one of my posts, I said a verbatim comment from my husband about Christopher Reeve's accident which maybe didn't come across the best. I think that it was quite the tragic accident that happened to a very remarkable person and did not want to come across as taking his accident lightly. Again, I hope everyone is doing well.
Sincerely,
Shelly
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 3, 2008 - 3:44 am:
Hi Shelly read your other post already and didn't want to say anything but I hope you do the run. It doesn't sound very severe but a youngster should [if you buy her ] be impeccable to many other risks are coming.[sorry I repeat myself] Did you read the thread on the RID's though Leslie posted?
There are strange ways horses can be found!
Good Luck
Jos
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Member:
inuktik
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 3, 2008 - 7:23 pm:
Hi Jos,
So good to hear from you!! I am now completely looking at this adventure as being a learning opportunity, which includes wanting to look at the x-rays and see where the problems are in case I might come across this in the future. My BIG problem at this moment is my hubbie who is saying "I really haven't seen anything that would make me want to walk away from her." ARGHHHH!! and then he proceeds with (after hearing my scream) "Well, I have never come across a horse who has licked my belly before," insert my ACKKK!!! here. It just so happened that when he first went up to Firefly that she happened to start licking his shirt which he thought was so great because our one sibe Inuk also LOVES to lick, so here he is saying that this is karma, fate, meant to be, yadda yadda yadda, and I am saying "honey, we aren't making enough to have an expensive lawn ornament." Now, keep in mind he has only been trail riding about 5 times in his entire life and after seeing Firefly's mom he is now saying that he wants to have a warmblood for himself as well. EEKKK!!! But, then he rationalizes "having a horse of that height will be fine on established trails, but it could be a challenge if I have to go cross country and make my own trails" .... to which I SIGH .... so anyhow, this has been my saga for the past week .... I hope you all are doing well!! I will look for that post Jos. All the best,
Shelly
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