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| Discussion on Seeking quiet legs | |
| Author | Message |
| Member: sunny66 |
Posted on Sunday, Aug 17, 2008 - 8:24 pm: I've been admonished so I'm starting a new thread Just starting back to riding my boy again. I've looked at a couple of 15 second videos and just at the walk my legs are noisy and they are bugging my horse. Now I know he's fat, so it's easier for his barrel to move back and forth, but the trainer did say I nag and to quit. So... Ann responded to the other post so I'll respond to her answers here. Are your legs quiet most the time? I thought so, but after looking at the video... nope! Is your problem just in posting.. ? }Not doing enough trot to worry about that yet. But I will sure to try your exercise when we get there! An exercise to do.. is trot in 2 point 1/2 the arena , sit and post till you feel your legs 'flopping' then go back to 2 point to get them legs back where they are suppose to be.. Muscle memory is not easy to break.. Another issue can be your saddle.. a saddle can put your leg in the wrong position too.. Oh I hope not! I love my saddle  But yes, I'll ask SR 
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| Member: sunny66 |
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| Member: dres |
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| Member: sunny66 |
Posted on Sunday, Aug 17, 2008 - 9:34 pm: The least I can do for Brave is to ride him right, why not go with one of the best??! That she'll come up to the boondocks is a blessing!!!LOL, I may see you Saturday, I may be coming out with J I'm going to do some of the exercises on the other thread, but do you know of anymore hip loosening ones? My gut tells me my hips or the pirifimus (sp?) aren't allowing my leg to be quiet... and I haven't been stretching as I should, will get on that right away
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| Member: imogen |
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| Member: leslie1 |
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| Member: terrido |
Posted on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 - 9:56 am: Aileen - (original post: Rode him today and when I would put my heels down trying to still mylegs... he thought halt... so I'm doing something with my thighs, right? Do I need to loosen my hips more? They are pretty tight....) OK, sounds like a "no", meaning no I don't think if you tried to lower your heels more that you were necessarily doing anything with your thighs. What I mean to say is that as you 'lower your heels' most likely you are pressing/stepping down into the stirrups more. As you step down into them the horse will naturally slow up or halt depending on how sensitive the horse is and how much you press. Quiet legs takes time mostly. Time for you to regain muscle strength and control. Exercises on and off the horse will help of course. While posting if your legs are "noisy" it may simply be the saddle isn't helping you keep them under you. That and your core strength isn't helping you stabilize the rest of your body as you rise. If the stirrup bars position the stirrup too far forward for you, your legs will tend to be pushed forward, throwing you off balance on every stride. This actually is pretty common and many people don't realize they are actually trying to fight the saddle. And if the horse has gotten wider thru the barrel this too may tend to push your leg a bit more forward than you were used to. Well and your hips not opening more sideways too. ;] The suggestion to ride in 2-point is a good one. It can help you find your balance again and help to build some strength. I can say for me though the only thing that helped my posting muscles and strength to do it was to post. ;] I would make sure you have your balance well at walk before beginning to trot. Or I'd ask to work on longe until you have better muscle strength and control. If you think you need to work on your hips loosening up then you probably do need to. ;] Best hips loosening is to do lunge exercises. For the periformis often if it's super tight deep tissue massage is needed to help it relax. Exercise to help relax the periformis is: 1) lying on your back bring knees up so your feet are flat on floor. 2) raise one leg, placing ankle on opposite leg's knee (as a man would sit "crossing his leg") 3) With hand on same side of body as crooked leg, place hand on inside of knee and press knee in an outward direction - while raising opposite leg toward your chest I am sure you can find illustrations of this exercise online somewhere, it's called a periformis stretch. You've also mentioned your legs being too noisy just at walk. I would begin here. Course I would have to ask what do you mean by "noisy"? Are they too floppy? Do they constantly move around in and out "hitting the horse" on every step? Or are you moving them trying to find a better balance for yourself? Maybe all of the above? So begin at the very beginning, SIT on the horse, just sit. Don't do anything else, just sit - still and quietly. Relax. Relax every muscle you can find in your body until you are quite literally a dish rag, a wet dish rag just barely draped over and around your horse. Not sure how good you are at finding tension in yourself, I use to be horrid at it. I thought I was relaxed, but I wasn't. My trainer had to literally like hold my wrist and shake my arm until I really let go of all my tension to feel what it was to be fully relaxed in my forearms. That kind of thing had to happen for me because I was so tense everywhere. I learned slowly to check myself I would tighten a muscle and then let it go and see how far I could relax it. Maybe that will work for you, or maybe you too will need some help to discover what a fully relaxed muscle feels like. Sitting still on a horse is not sitting tense, it's the opposite and yet it's not flopping around either. It's that middle place of completely relaxed through the core and having just enough 'tension' to hold your self upright and "still". Not moving too much with the horse's movement, but just enough. Couple hints here. As you find that place at walk, the horse will lower it's head, the stride will open up more from behind especially. If you have too much tension in your lower body the horse will have shortened, stilted, strides. When you are trying to find this place in yourself initially your goal for the horse's movement is to get as open a stride as possible, to have the horse move in as relaxed a way as is possible. You should eventually feel your leg sinking down and raising as the horse walks. One more tip. The horse also has a responsibility here. The horse too has to relax so that you can. So at first you blame yourself and find all the places you can release your tensions, and then it's the horse's turn. Movement is one thing that helps them relax more. Active movement, not just plodding along. Ask for a more brisk walk for a bit and see what happens. If you can get fully relaxed and you don't feel the barrel swinging enough to make your legs sink and raise with every step the horse is carrying too much tension. Tension feeds tension. ;) Step one is to find complete relaxation at walk for both you and the horse. |
| Member: canter |
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| Member: sunny66 |
Posted on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 - 10:25 am: Perfect! wonderful input from all of you Imogen, I have forgotten the stand up in the stirrups thing, I will try that! Fran, thanks so much those are really helping I think! Terrie, relaxing is key for my boy... I do find myself halting and just sitting there for a few minutes. It does work! Your Questions: Course I would have to ask what do you mean by "noisy"? My legs just move around a lot, I can tell from the video that annoys him because his head pops up. If my legs are quiet, he's perfect! Are they too floppy? Yes. Do they constantly move around in and out "hitting the horse" on every step? Yes Or are you moving them trying to find a better balance for yourself? No, not for balance I don't think. I've been riding with the thought of just keeping them loose and relaxed and focusing on my seat alone... however, I now know from my lesson that's not a great idea! Tooo loose now...ug. Part of it is aiding... but I do bug him with my legs without even thinking now
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| Member: terrido |
Posted on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 - 1:11 pm: Aileen, your first task is to learn to keep yourself and your legs still.To begin with, and there are many schools of thought on this approach, this is what I would do. LONGE work first. Ask your trainer to put a line on the horse so YOU can just work on you. I think tho you mentioned not having a trainer, or not taking lessons. OK, then that idea won't work, unless you know of someone that can come out and work with you, have someone else control the horse. Barring work on longe, if you are alone, I trust you do have an enclosed space to work in, like an arena? (huge round pen?) If you cannot have someone else control the horse the next option would be for you to give up all control for a while. ;] This was a major lesson I also had to learn. When you are in a place where the horse really cannot go any where, and you are alone, you have a huge luxury! You can just let the horse wander where it will. DO this. Just let the horse walk where ever it wishes. You just sit. Do nothing except try to stay as still as possible. Nothing flopping, nothing flapping, nothing wiggling. SIT STILL. Sit up, but sit still. Not stiff, just still. It's NOT easy to accomplish. Don't ask the horse to move forward, don't use anything to direction where the horse goes or how the horse goes, just sit. If the horse is stopped, fine, sit at halt. Hopefully there is nothing the horse can snack on in there. Only thing would be to not allow the horse to lower his head for eating anything. Otherwise, just sit. Sit up straight, no slumping allowed. Legs should gently hug the horse only. Keep them just barely touching the horse. You should be able to feel that your legs are touching the horse, but not squeezing, just lying alongside the horse quietly. Keep them just like that at all times, no matter what his barrel does. So your legs just stay 'on' but very gently, just touching. Still against him. Hours. Yup many hours, whatever it takes for you to get being able to just sit still on the horse. NO use of your legs for ANY reason at all. No trying to go with the horse, no trying to turn or ask for more forward or anything. Nothing, just sit. So ... what do you do if the horse just gets into a corner and stays there? How do I get him to walk around? Etc. How should you add just a bit of control without using your body or your legs? So you can just remain sitting very still... ???? Use a whip. OK, I ride dressage so I have a long whip. Whether you ride dressage or not, invest in a dressage whip! Yup even if you are sitting in a big honkin western saddle, or I should add especially if you're in a big honkin western saddle. The dressage length whips will reach better where you need it to reach. Your next lesson will be “the correct use of the whip”. LOL Seriously. You should use only the whip to ask the horse to keep moving. This way you are not tempted to use your legs, allowing you to remain still! It also allows you to keep your relaxation and yet still have the horse move out when you ask it to. Just a few light whip end touches to the horse just behind your leg – lightly! Should be all that's required to ask the horse to please walk on. I do mean TOUCH! And always in multiples, three or more. You just touch, touch, touch until the horse moves. Yes you may have to teach your horse what a whip touch means. That's a separate lesson! Haha It's true, using a whip correctly will ask the horse to keep moving, allowing you to remain perfectly still in the saddle. After almost 8 years after learning this I still begin my work sessions this way. I work on my relaxation by using only my whip to ask my horse to walk on. This way I don't re-introduce too much tension into my body, allows my horse to quickly relax too. So, Aileen your homework is to get on your horse, and just sit still. You will do this until you can absolutely just sit very still. Be it a couple hours or a couple months. Don't worry, you're probably better than I was, took me almost three months. Course I had to learn two other important lessons in that time, besides just sitting still. I had to learn to give up wanting to always control the horse, and I had to retrain my legs how to fall alongside the horse so my toes would point forward (allowing the full inside of my leg to be on the horse). One hour a week for almost three full months, this was my “lesson”. Sit on the horse. Just sit, sit still. Do nothing no matter what he does. After about a month, I was allowed to use whip to ask the horse to keep walking. I was allowed to use the whip to ask the horse to move a bit sideways to get him out of his favorite corner. Yup took me a very long time, but I was only able to ride for my lessons and those were just once a week. That's what about 12 lessons roughly?? You might be able to do that in two weeks. Those first few months were invaluable lessons for me though. I learned how to fully relax; I learned how to sit still; I learned correct use of a whip; I learned I could actually feel the horse moving underneath me. And I learned to allow the horse to make a mistake! I learned to let the horse make mistakes. I learned to let go of feeling a need to control every footfall. Not only do you not have to do that, you shouldn't have to do that. But that too is another lesson. LOL Well and the same thing applies to noisy hands. |
| Member: lhenning |
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| Member: sunny66 |
Posted on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 - 3:39 pm: Linda and Terrie, if I use a whip he says I'm GOING!! Don't put that on me! and takes a very long time for him to relax... but yes, whip it is, he'll get it soon enough that I'm not going to whack him with it He was chewing on it by the end of my lesson ... lol Linda, will try the lifting the toes instead of heels down. Thank you. Terrie, thank you I don't necessarily have an enclosed arena, but fairly safe. I will give it a go This may give you an idea of what I'm dealing with: https://s141.photobucket.com/albums/r59/wishes_album/?action=view¤t=DSCF000 6.flv |
| Member: terrido |
Posted on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 - 4:27 pm: And so hence the training of proper use of whip! So he won't just react if you happen to have one. *sigh* Use the whip after learning how, and he learns what it's for. ;)As for toes up, yes it is a much better mental way to position your feet, but tbh, initially who cares? I mean you are trying to get quieter in the saddle, doing anything with your feet consciously will make you fidget and cause tension. So just sit, let your feet do what they do. The more you can let go of all your own tension, except the small amount required to hold yourself upright and sitting still, keeping your legs gently touching the horse all the way form hip to toes, the better off you will be. Let him wander around wherever, looks like you have plenty of room. Yes you probably will have to use your reins to guide him around cause in that open dressage court he'll probably decide to just leave. LOL I know you aren't me, but I seem to learn best when I only have one thing to do at a time instead of thirty million. I can multi-task, but come on. haha Riding wasn't a second nature thing for me when I decided to do it again after not riding for a very long time, like it seemed to be when I was a kid. Anyway, it was easiest for me to start with just one thing, master it and then add the next piece. Once I got the very fundamental basics "down pat" it was much easier to add a few pieces at a time every lesson. My trainer was amazed at my progress, especially since he really figured I was gonna be a lost cause. haha It just took us a bit to find what worked for my brain and my body. Once past that initial hurdle it was smooth sailing. So for you Aileen, just sit as still as you can on the horse. If you have to tense things lots to find that place to keep them from flopping, do that. If the horse slows or stops then you know you have applied too much. Back off and try again, see where you are too floppy and where you are way too tense. Find the medium and then finesse it. Now go get out there and play.
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| Member: leslie1 |
Posted on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 - 7:54 pm: Ive been keeping my eye on this post cuz I am going thru the same thing with Pumpkin. Lately I feel like I have been needing to nag her with my leg. My trainer, tonight, kept on me about it. "quit nagging, if she slows down, dont say nag,nag please,please- get after her! mean it!! EXPECT her to keep the same pace! My trainer also tells me to slightly lift my toes for a whoa...not lower heels...Lendon Gray ( dressage medalist ) has a cool book called From Whoa to Go. Its about training to go to your first dressage show. Anyways, the very first chapter is only about "Doing Nothing" she ask are you able to ride and do nothing?...no aids at all...apparently, not many people can do that. most people nag in some form or another. She has little tests you can do to see if your nagging. She also talks about riding in 3point too. I really like that book. You and Brave look great together nice pair... I dont know why this popped into my head, but I think of a medieval lady riding when I saw your video. good luck Leslie |
| Member: leslie1 |
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| Member: sunny66 |
Posted on Friday, Aug 22, 2008 - 4:58 pm: Thanks again all She said I improved!! I used Fran's exercises Linda's opening toes inside the boots Leslie's lifting toes for whoa Terrie's sitting still and doing one thing at a time! lol... totally works for me too Terrie She gave me things to work on for the next month until I can ride with her again I'll be incorporating more of the tips in this thread too OH! almost forgot! Picked up the whip so she could help with that as well... of course he thought TROT! LOL So I had to bring him back, then she said to go ahead and ask him yourself to trot... He trotted TWO 20 meter circles and she said he looked sound to her!!! FINALLY!!!!! We have some work to do on the whip thing, BUT the sitting still and staying out of his way really helped in the forward department Sorry no video this time... Of course, but at least I have a great witness
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| Member: leslie1 |
Posted on Friday, Aug 22, 2008 - 6:57 pm: Thats wonderful Aileen! Yay.I loved reading Terries posts she has a way with words! Anyhow, Keep us informed and let us know how next session goes Leslie |
| Member: terrido |
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| Member: terrido |
Posted on Friday, Aug 22, 2008 - 7:39 pm: Ahh yes, the quiet leg
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| Member: maggienm |
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| Member: canter |
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| Member: scooter |
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| Member: frances |
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| Member: sunny66 |
Posted on Sunday, Aug 24, 2008 - 9:04 am: Thank you all, I'm just thrilled with Brave. He's such a good boy and has taught/is teaching me so much!
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