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Discussion on Anyone Had Luck with Sway Backed Pads?
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 4, 2008 - 11:03 am:
Fitting a saddle correctly with a pad is a frustrating problem I know many have experienced with a horse with a sway back. I have tried 2 different speciality pads: The first, from Cashel, seemed like a good buy as it was a lower price than I had been seeing. Upon arrival, I saw it had a sticker on it saying it was an English pad, and I need a Western. I tried the pad sandwiched between 2 clean blankets, and found to get the saddle right, the tree of the saddle was hanging off the back of the pad as it was too short. And it seemed to fuzz & fray just after one ride. Maybe there was a reason it was discounted?
So returned that, hopefully I get most of my money back.
Ordered a Tuffy Swayback Pad, (similar to the Reinsman) and that seemed perfect. Until I realized that the longer I ride, the "Flatter" it gets. It seems between my weight, and the heat from the horse, the foam just starts melting down. Hence the saddle gets looser as I ride, and when I checked after the ride, there was hardly any cushioning on my mares withers where she needs it.
I contacted the guy at Skito and sent pictures at his request to see if that special pad he offers would work. I didn't get any reply and I have a Skito pad already, and it's slippery too, not sure if the foam breaks down as bad but I do know it's rock hard when it's cold.
Anyone have any suggestions for a Western pad?
I tried making one out of foam myself, but it also broke down after a few rides. Memory foam, regular foam, and lots of duct tape!
I am going to try and get some pictures of Willow on here to help you all see what I am dealing with.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 4, 2008 - 11:34 am:
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 4, 2008 - 11:41 am:
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 4, 2008 - 12:00 pm:
From yesterday, standing a little better.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 4, 2008 - 12:03 pm:
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 4, 2008 - 12:06 pm:
As you can see in the last picture, she is higher on the left too.
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Member:
george76
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 4, 2008 - 12:09 pm:
Angie,
I have ridden many 'a swayback horse and have found one pad to hold up to them all... I cannot remember the brand-name of it, but it is similar to the Reinsman Built-Up/Cutback saddle pad. It has a fleece lining. Two mares that I rode were severely swaybacked and this pad worked great and kept the saddle off their narrow withers. The pad also never flattened out and lasted many years.
I can tell you that I have yet to see a foam pad ever work well for a swayback horse. There never seems to be enough padding near the front, to fill in narrow withers/shoulders.
You may have already tried a pad similar to this (having noted that it was similar to the Reinsman), but have you actually tried the Reinsman? Here is a link to it:
https://www.jeffersequine.com/ssc/product.asp?CID=1&mscssid=3NJXE74GDV269JJLAEQK8 HT7ERWNFPVF&pf_id=0031343
There is also another nice-looking cutback pad (Equi Herc Built-Up Cutback saddle pad):
https://www.horse.com/Western-Tack/Saddle-Pads/Equi-Herc-Built-Up-Cutback-Saddle- Pad-WIL03.html
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 4, 2008 - 2:14 pm:
Hmmm...and the Equi Herc is not expensive either.
Funny, sometimes I think the Gel Pad works just as well, and maybe as long as she has padding on her withers, and back of the tree, maybe she is just as comfortable? The Impact Gel is designed to have the gel under all the places the tree hits. (I actually use that pad more than the Skito pad under my treeless too,not on Willow though)
The Tuffy swayback pad says it has a mixed fiber center, 1/2" and a 1 1/2" foam insert that tapers to 1/2" at each end. I'd love to dismantle the dang thing and see where the mixed fiber are!
I have wither pads, but they seem to tilt the saddle back. She looks downhill, but I don't think the saddle(s) sit down hill if they are short enough. The saddle in the picture is the one my daughter rides in, mine is one size bigger I believe and that may make the tree 1" longer, as far as I can tell.
Thanks for the links, appreciate it.
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New Member:
shahara
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 4, 2008 - 3:47 pm:
The best pads are the Thinline pads. They make western and english pads. A bit expensive but well worth the price. I would not put anything else on my horses. Long warranty as well. They also sell shims to adjust an off horse.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 4, 2008 - 7:40 pm:
Angie, my old girl has had a sway back for a long time, worse than your mares. When still riding her we would double pad, a smaller wool pad on her back...and a thicker fleece pad on top. She was rode for years like that with no problems.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 4, 2008 - 9:08 pm:
I borrowed either the Tuffy or the Reinsman swayback pad from a friend who uses one on her horse, and for mine, it tilted me downhill in the saddle toward the withers, though it didn't rub his hair off in the loin area as other arrangements did. I bought a Western sway back pad made by Cavallo that I thought looked perfect only to discover that only one use rubbed his skin off as he was sensitive to their supposedly space-age great fabric that is supposed to be so wonderful with dissipating heat. (Maybe I can find a way to make it work with another pad underneath, but a light blanket won't work because it bunches up due to the sway and won't lie flat). Had the same skin reaction on the heel bulbs with their hoof boots. I had a Skito pad made that would never stay put. A friend of mine had an old pad with built up areas in it, which was too long for my horse's back and rubbed his hair off in front of his hips, so I folded the back end up and under the saddle and put a Professional's Choice Air pad over the top of that. It has been ugly but effective, even for mountain riding. I find that how well something works depends upon how much one is riding and what the conditions are, such as steep slopes or flat, slow riding or fast. It is great if you can borrow and try some sway back pads from others before buying. Lots of trial and error, which will change along with any changes in the horse's condition or weight.
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Member:
muffi
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Posted on Friday, Sep 5, 2008 - 3:40 pm:
WOW - Is it me? I look at your horse and she doesn't appear sway backed?
am I missing something that I should be more aware of in my horses?
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Sep 5, 2008 - 4:31 pm:
Thanks everyone for your insights. Last ride I used my treeless saddle with the Impact Gel pad, and although I worry because the saddle is too long on her, she seemed comfy. I didn't feel like I was going downhill towards her neck.
When I got off her with the Swayback Pad, the saddle was loose, and had moved back, and was definately tilted down....what a pain.
Muffi,
She may not look like her back is low in the last picture because it's not a straight on shot. If you look at the picture from the top, you can see her spine at her withers and mid back...wouldn't that be called "sway backed?" Or is she maybe more "sprung ribbed" if that is even a term ;()!
I've laid a level on her back, and she is higher in the rump no doubt. BUT, where our saddles end, she seems pretty level front to back.
Maybe I am missing something?
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Sep 5, 2008 - 7:33 pm:
Angie, imo your mare looks more high withered than really sway backed. How old is she? She's cute.
Anyway, have you tried a pad that fills in on either side of the withers only? I'd have to look in a catalogue to find an example of what I'm talking about. If I think of it later I'll send a link.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 6, 2008 - 9:59 am:
Hmmm, an interesting thing about this photo is that the mare does have kind of a long curvy topline (high withers and croup), but her area where she can actually bear a saddle is quite short. It doesn't look "sway" but is curvy, so I imagine that most saddles might bridge on this mare, pad or not.
I see you have a treeless. Check into the various pads offered by the treeless saddle makers. I have one from Ansur (saddles have declined in quality, but they have some useful pads) or the other companies. They have some handy ones that target this type of conformation.
I have a mare like this-- she is quite long but cannot carry a big saddle at all. So regardless of padding, you ay be looking for a small saddle, maybe one with a shortened or flexible tree to prevent bridging the rider's weight into her loin and the points of her shoulder. Then she *would* get a sway back....
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 6, 2008 - 11:35 am:
Angie, you might try an "Arabian saddle" on her. They are usually made for shorter backs. Also, I have a Wintec all purpose that is shorter. If you can get away with a "youth" size saddle, they are shorter also. My old mare is very short backed (and round) and I ride her in my ancient saddle that's I've had since I was 14; it's a youth size and it fits her good. The Wintec all purpose also fits her. The Wintecs come with an adjustable gullet which might help also. (Had to look at a catalogue to remember that word; geesh I hate getting old!)
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 6, 2008 - 12:24 pm:
Sara, Elizabeth,
Let me clarify something. I used to use my treeless saddle on her, but realized it was too long. I think that it made her sore, withers especially as I think I put it up too far with the center rigging design. I used it on her once the other night just to see what happened with the special pad. Wasn't impressed.
The saddle I ride her in is similar to the one in the picture, just one seat size bigger, and it has a square skirt, but it's just the cordura skirt. My treeless skirt is leather so it would "dig" whereas the other saddle I have to worry about the tree itself digging in her back. So the treed saddle is actually shorter where it hits on her back. I searched and talked to lots of saddle shops to find a short one.
I have the speciality pad for the treeless, nice idea, but again, it's just an o.k. pad. Slippery like the sway back pad.
I have wither riser pads also, and I might just try them again, maybe with some tweaking they will work. I've thought about cutting them to shorten and angle them...not sure. Her left shoulder is higher, she's had a bump there for years...a good reason to remember to always use a mounting block.
My hoof guru is also giving me pointers on making her hoofs as good as they can be to help her back. She may have been trimmed poorly for years adding to the back issue.
Sara,
She is Ferzon breeding, and is 19 years old. I got her as a 2 year old. I am always amazed she has kept her pretty head as I thought Arabs got bigger headed, less dished with age. And she has plenty of energy too, a little bit of ring bone, her joints are creaky but so are mine!
I know what you mean by the pads that fill in that hollow area.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 6, 2008 - 1:18 pm:
No wonder she has such a pretty head, Angie! (We may have had the "Arab" discussion before; you know how it is!.....) Where did you get the impression Arabs' heads get bigger? Funny! Usually it's just the opposite; they get "drier." At least that's been my experience. Maybe it's the extra hair they get as they get older, which could make them look bigger and coarser if it's not clipped.
Anyway, back to the saddle pad issue. I forgot you have a treeless. I'm not familair with them; the only one I've ever seen was the one I rode in at Ilona's. With her uneven withers, have you tried the pads with the removable wither pads? I was wondering if using one "lollypop" style pad on the lower side would work? You've probably already tried that combination.
Schneider's has a Gel-Lite support pad that looks like it might work. You can add/delete support pads. It looks like you'd use it under a regular pad. Although it's made for an English saddle, the way it is cut it looks like it could be used with a light weight western pad, but I'd consider trying it over the pad instead of under it. If you use layers of pads, you can try putting a layer of that cushioning shelf liner inbetween the pads to keep them from slipping around.
I ride in a very light air flow pad under my western saddle most of the time, but she is evenly withered, just round. I just have to ride balanced to keep the saddle from rolling around to her stomach!
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 7, 2008 - 12:28 pm:
Angie, cute mare. I wouldn't call her swaybacked, and I like Sara's suggestion to use a pad and saddle for high withered horses.
I realize you ride western, but there is a type of English saddle called a "cutback" that actually has a U-shaped pommel opening to accommodate knife blade withers. I don't know if there is a western equivalent.
A lot of English pads are shaped for this wither conformation, too. If you're not showing, maybe you can find one that you can use with your saddle that pads the sides of her withers and not the top?
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 7, 2008 - 4:14 pm:
Angie, I have a Cashel soft saddle that would work beautifully on her. I also have the pad for it that has pockets!! Since I injured my knee I have been leary of using it. I really love the thing and it has fit all my horses...including ole' swayback. Sam my arab gelding is high withered and slightly sway back and it fit him great.
Would you like to borrow it until I deam my knee able? I have been toying with selling it.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 7, 2008 - 4:24 pm:
This is what it is
https://www.horse.com/Western-Tack/Western-Saddles/Cashel-Soft-Saddle-WIE07.html
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 7, 2008 - 10:47 pm:
Hi, Angie,
I thought I'd join in here because I'm in a similar situation with a gelding with high withers.
My eight year old has a bit of a split personality. Oh, what am I saying a bit! He has a major split personality! One day he's an angel and the next the devil has taken up residence and I'm never quite sure what I'm going to get. Anyway, he's a major pansy when it comes to pain or annoyances so I started to wonder if I wasn't putting too much pressure on his withers. I purchased the Reinsman Swayback pad with the Tacky Too lining. When I picked it up in the store I thought "man, there's not much substance to this." But I bought it anyway.
Here's my take: First of all, I'm not sure if I'm going to like the Tacky Too lining since I've always used wool. I think it will make him sweat more but I'm sure it will be fine. When I put the pad on his back both the front and back of the pad touched his back but the center was definitely raised. When I put the saddle on it seemed to fit okay and there didn't appear to be pressure without any weight in the saddle. I was able to pull up the front of the pad away from his withers (I do this will all pads) and it cleared well. It did not work it's way back down when I was riding, either, which was good.
When I got on there was definitely no pressure on his withers which was great but the back of the pad was pushed down enough that I think if I were to ride for any length of time I might put rubs on his loins. I rode just long enough for him to start to break a sweat under the saddle. The sweat marks were at the front and back of the pad on the sides. No pressure on the spine or withers but also less contact through the center of the saddle. So, in my opinion, there really isn't enough padding in this pad. I like the shape of it but I think I'm going to have to figure out how to make "shims" for the middle area of the pad to make it perfect.
The good thing too, was that the angel went riding with me this evening instead of the devil. Was it the pad? Who the heck knows!
Good luck in your search and I'll be watching this discussion to see what you come up with.
~Sara
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 7, 2008 - 11:56 pm:
I was just looking through the new Schneider's catalogue and saw a Dura-tech Tenko-Dri Contoured Support pad that looked interesting. Have you seen it? It has a cut-away wither with padding on either side. Too pad you can't adjust the padding so you could lessen it on her one bump and increase it on the other side.
The pad I use most of the time is a Supracore Cool Grip pad. Not cheap! (Do they even make cheap pads anymore??) But, I've been very happy with it on all our horses. At first I thought it wouldn't give enough cushion on some of my higher withered horses, but they seem comfortable in it. Of course, none of mine have that bump your girl has.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, Sep 8, 2008 - 12:03 am:
Marystack.com has a Wintec Comfort pad that is "only" $33 and also looks interesting. It's English but looks like it would work under a thin western pad.https://www.marystack.com/aaaaaaackr.html
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Monday, Sep 8, 2008 - 12:04 am:
Sara, the Supracor Cool Grip pad looks very interesting! The dimensions are small...do you use it alone or under/over another pad?
~Sara
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Monday, Sep 8, 2008 - 12:27 am:
Geeeeze...I should really go to bed! It appears the page I was looking at first was english pads only. Duh! I found a western pad and the dimensions are larger. It does look like, though, with measurements of 20" X 19.5" the All-Purpose Supracor Cool Grip might cover the exact area over the back that needs the extra padding with the Reinsman. I have to wonder, though, if the extra padding over the spine and not just on the sides would cause pressure there.
Thoughts anyone?
~Sara
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, Sep 8, 2008 - 1:12 am:
Yeah, I need to go to be also. Lonnie is watching Ice Road Truckers.
The Supracor pads is about 2" larger than the saddle skirts, depending on which saddle I'm using. I thought it looked too thin, but was told it was meant to be used alone. However, with my older saddle I put another pad over it. My newer saddle I use it alone, and my horses seem to love it. I like it also because it is so easy care; just wipe it off with a wet sponge. I also like the way it is shaped and fits.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Monday, Sep 8, 2008 - 7:48 am:
Sara & Sara,
I looked at the Tekno-Dri Contoured Support Pad too in Schneiders, pg 115, and the Gel-Lite Split Support pad on pg 144. (Fall 2008 catalog)
What I don't understand is the 2nd one is called a Gel-Lite, but it don't appear to have Gel, like the Impact Gel Pad I have. It's foam again, and having tried all kinds of foam just put under the saddle on her one lower wither, I know that just smooshes down as you ride.
I pushed and prodded on my Skito pad too, and revisited their website. I see April whoever, that endurance rides and promotes the pads, says to tighten you cinch as you ride...meaning those pads do flatten as you ride. And that is the firmest foam I have found.
Sara W,
Do you know where to find a good description of what is in the Supracor Pad? I just googled, and didn't find much out. Is it foam? Does it hold it's shape?
I wonder if I just use my impact gel pad, and something else in the low part of her back?.....??
BTW, the price on those, that's more than I paid for Willow when I got her 17 years ago!
Sara M,
Interestingly, your Reinsman pad looks identical in pattern and coloring as the pad I bought, which is a Tuffy by Big Horn..I think.
When I used that pad, I kept fighting to keep the saddle centered because it was not helping with the high/low wither problem. When I used the Impact Gel, I don't feel that happening.
Maybe I didn't need a new kind of pad, maybe I should just buy another Impact Gel...Sara, have you checked them out?
Now, anyone have any tips on how to thoroughly clean this pad I don't want? Or any good arguements to get the seller to take it back?
Sara, do you plan on keeping yours and just taking the loss?
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Monday, Sep 8, 2008 - 9:11 pm:
Funny, Angie, I was actually thinking about trying a Skito Western Bridge as a compliment to the new Reinsman but I don't know if that extra padding would add pressure to the spine.
I bought a contoured impact gel pad a year or so ago and Cracker HATED it! It seemed to me that the pressure was still at the front and back of the saddle with no support across the lower part of the back. And, even though it's not supposed to, I think the gel was displaced from those areas causing pressure. I'm using that pad on my 4 year old now who has a more traditional quarter horse back and he and I love the way it fits.
I bought the Reinsman at Murdochs and if I don't find anything to compliment it within the next couple of weeks I think I'll return it. It was only on the horse for about 20 minutes and with the Tacky Too lining I can just wipe it clean. That's a plus!
Is this the pad you're looking at at Schneider's? https://www.sstack.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=7309&itemType=PRODU CT&RS=1&keyword=tekno-dri That looks like it might work okay but it's so hard to buy online in the case I have to return it. Sheesh!
Sara W, wanna let me borrow your western Supracor to give it a try?? 
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 9, 2008 - 7:53 am:
Sara,
Your link came up as an empty shopping cart.
I've considered the Skito Western Bridge too, but I didn't have the best of luck doing business with them before. I called and ordered the pad, it came and was the wrong size, so I had to call again. They took it back, and I sent pictures, and used chalk to trace on the wrong pad, the outline of my treeless saddle. IMO, it's still not right as the little fender flaps are not on the pad when you cinch up the saddle. Hard to explain, but anyhow, for the price of the pad...
The one I have is very slickery with the fleecy underside; I prefer a felt underside like the Impact Gel pad.
When it's cold, the foam gets rock hard. I noticed that last winter and thought, what the heck? Our tack room is heated, but only to keep it just above freezing. So I didn't care for that one bit.
I'll try the Skito on her today with a regular saddle, and see what happens. I'll make sure she gets warm enough and see if it flattens. I haven't used it for awhile so need to refresh my memory.
I wonder is on you gelding there if you just folded a blanket in a "V" like and used it with a good felt/wool pad you liked? It looks like it would be very easy for his withers to get sore.
I've also tried putting the felt wither riser pads on her, but not so much on the withers as on the low part of her back. I've often wondered if I cut them a little bit to shape them, if that would work?
Too bad about your Gel pad not working, that's my favorite pad and I own a few.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 9, 2008 - 2:22 pm:
Sara,
Just for your info here; I rode Willow in the Skito pad. Had to tighten it twice, don't do that with any other pad other than the sway back pad with the foam in it.
Like the Sway back Pad, the saddle slide back, and I felt like I was going downhill, had to readjust it. But that's on my horse, would be different on yours.
The good news, which might interest you, is that the foam didn't really seem to flatten as bad. It did flatten but I DrOve my fingers and thumbs into it after riding, and it seemed pretty firm yet whereas the other pad seems I can touch my thumb and forefinger together pushing on the opposite sides of the pad.
My vote is for NO foam, but try to find a felt pad. Holly called this morning and she still thinks the Cavello, which was the one I sent back, but it wasn't the western pad.
And so the search for the perfect pad continues.
I am going to try my wither pads next time I ride her, and might carve the one down thinner to help with the levelness from side to side.
Or if might be easiest to sell the dang horse, lol!
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 9, 2008 - 5:57 pm:
So, Angie, the Skito pad is made out of foam? I was going to give them a call for information when I get home from KY. Do you have any pictures of the one you have?
I just checked out the Cavallo site and I see they have a Western Bridge but the only picture I can find is on another site. It appears that the extra padding fills in below the withers, as well, which defeats the purpose for me. It also says it's 30 x 32 and I definitely need a 32 x 32. Maybe I should give them a call.
I think I might be able to buy an inexpensive felt pad and cut it down to fit just the lower part of his back. If I do that, though, I think I might have to use it on top of the Reinsman because I'm not sure I like the idea of having two different types of lining against the horse's back under the saddle. Although, it makes more sense to fill the gap beneath the Reinsman with the second pad. Sheesh! I could argue with myself all night!
I just need to find a 32 x 32 pad with the built up part across the bridge area and the wither area either cut out or lifted. Why is this so hard??
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 10, 2008 - 5:12 pm:
This looks kind of interesting:
https://www.thecorrector.net/ CorrecTOR pads by the person who used to make Ortho Flex saddles.
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 11, 2008 - 2:30 am:
Hi, Vicki, wow...that looks perfect...except for the price! I just about choked when I saw what I needed was going to be $390 without shipping. The other side of that coin is "how much is my horse's back worth?" I might just have to start a saddle pad savings fund!
For the time being, though, I think I'll look for a lower cost solution. If all else fails I've got not problem going farther into debt for my "kids."
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 11, 2008 - 7:34 am:
WOW, did he ever raise the prices on those pads! I've been on his site a few times, even emailed Len, and it looks like he doubled the price!
I think the guy is onto something, but if I remember correctly, he won't take the pad back under any circumstances.
Sara,
Are you sure you don't want to like take out a 2nd mortgage and report back to us how well the pad worked?
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 11, 2008 - 10:24 am:
You know, Angie, I am actually looking at refinancing the house so maybe I can add that on!
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 11, 2008 - 11:23 am:
WOW -- he has raised the prices since I last closely looked at the site, which kind of overwhelmed me with information. Trying to decide exactly what is needed from pictures doesn't work as well as putting padding on and trying it out. Can it be true that these pads could work/adjust to every situation? Seems too good to be true.
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