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  Discussion on What do you do with an anxious student?
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Member:
starda01

Posted on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 - 10:03 pm:

I don't post often, but I'm really pulling my hair out over this. My daughter rides at a hunter jumper barn. She's 13 and has been riding for about 4 years now and rides beautifully. We did have a horse, but we couldn't keep him sound and had to retire him.

Now, here is the problem. She has anxiety issues, and has had since she was a small child. I have had her in children's anxiety counselling, and even on medications to help her. Both things have been successful in the past. Its an ongoing issue she will have to grapple with as she grows up.

Since she became interested in horses, she's had a lot of scarey times, taken her spills, but has kept on. She's gotten afraid, and regressed, and still decided she wanted it enough to keep on and try again. And when she is confident, she is really quite a good rider, and has all the skills it takes, as well as natural talent. I have always told her that she must not quit because she's afraid, that if she loses interest, ok, its up to her. But if she lets her fear defeat her, she will regret that her whole life. It is entirely up to her how far she wants to take it.

My daughter is also very competitive, and loves showing. I cannot afford to buy her a pony presently, so she has been showing a school pony this last season. That pony isn't the greatest thing, but she's managed to beat kids on much nicer ponies.

Last month, she took a spill in a jumping class, and just fell apart. The trainer who took her to the show told her she couldn't cry like that again or she wouldn't take her to any more shows. But this month, we showed a different pony, one who's a bit more temperamental, but also a more proven show pony. She'd only had about 2 weeks with this pony and she got reserve champion in her division, beating out kids who've been riding and showing their own expensive ponies for a long time.

I put alot of effort into it too, bc I also ride, I've been riding this pony to make sure he was ready to go, since the girl that owns him doesn't have time to do it.

I found out today that the trainer that took my daughter to the show had to be "conned" into taking her. This was told to me by her regular riding instructor, and she then said, well look at it this way, its our careers she puts in jeopardy if she breaks down. And I was totally floored.

Is this sport only about kids with expensive ponies who don't embarass their trainers? I've already had one trainer refuse to teach her bc of her anxiety. And yet, there is another girl I know who was afraid of her own pony, and yet, her trainer had her parents buy her an expensive horse she isn't ready for, so she can go to shows. I guess money trumps all.

My daughter lives for it, she is a working student on weekends, and every time she shows up at the barn. I'd love to hear from you trainers as to what you do with students who are anxious or fearful, yet really want to ride.

Sara
Member:
dres

Posted on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 - 10:39 pm:

WoW, I am not a trainer , but have taught my grand children how to ride.. I think the best thing in the world is for a young girl to stay interested in horses, I feel it keeps them more balanced and out of trouble when the other kids are thinking of sex / drugs / and rock and roll, our riding kids are thinking of cleaning their tack and keeping their riding partner happy!

So do what ever it takes to keep her in riding, I have a grand daughter that has attention problems .. SHE to stay focused around horses, or she can get hurt.. this has helped her focus now at school.. I would think if you go back to basic riding and not so much showing that maybe some of her anxiety would lesson.. more pleasure riding, more just getting out and about ...

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
corinne

Posted on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 - 11:13 pm:

Sara...I agree with Ann, it would be great to keep your daughter interested. We have alot of individuals on this site who have show anxieties and with the support of others are very successful!
First and foremost, how the trainers are acting is a true reflection of their character especially in relation to children and I believe their behavior is poor and not indicative of the majority in the sport.
Your child, if she is like most pre teens is a sensitive young impressionable girl and it would benefit her to be with a trainer who builds her confidence and empowers her. Actually I think that's important for all riders. Riders who are taught with confidence and who are praised and who aren't trodden on for a poor performance at show will likely perform better anyway and with less anxiety.
Is there another barn where there are schooling shows with school ponies where the emphasis is on fun? If you tell us the general area you are located there are many instructors here on HA who could help point you on your way.
And tell your daughter to keep on. I cried after my first two shows and I was 31 at the time...LOL.
You just need to find a barn that works for you both instead of one that plays into her existing anxiety. Remember your the one paying for a service so you have the right to go somewhere else. It's too much pressure on a kid if they are going to say her performance is a reflection of their training. She is 13 riding a schooling pony she is not riding FEI or Grand Prix. All of us fall, and all of us have had to dust our selves off and get back on the horse. It's just easier to do when you have a trainer who is there to give you a leg back up!
Good luck!

Corinne
Member:
mrose

Posted on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 - 11:46 pm:

I totally agree with both Ann and Corinne on all accounts. I've had horses my entire life, and have been on both ends of the teacher/student things. Some trainers/teachers seem to feel it makes them a better trainer to yell. I'm not sure why they have any students left. I was recently at a show where the trainer/husband yelled at his wife/student because she came in second in a large class!! There are understanding, kind, excellent trainers out there.

Also, after all these years I still get nervous before shows, and even lessons, and I'm 65, so your daughter isn't alone in this, and one 45 yr. old I sometimes show with gets so nervous she cries before her class, yet she keeps on.

I wonder if it would help her to post here at HA sometimes? There are several other young people, one is South Africa, who might be able to give her tips as well as a confidence boost, and just be enjoyable to chat with. Of course, maybe it will help her to know that she has a lot of company of all ages who have similar problems. Give her a hug for us all and tell her to keep on with it. Inspite of the downfalls (literal as well as figurative) there is nothing better!
Member:
ekaufman

Posted on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 - 12:43 am:

Argh.

I agree that girls and horses are a great combo. I agree that showing is not all about winning.

But I wish I knew what you meant when you said "just fell apart." Because a 13 year-old girl who wants to show horses needs to know more than how to ride and compete. She needs horsemanship and showmanship and also sportsmanship. This is especially true if she is prone to anxiety, because the list above does not come naturally under stress.

It is tough on the trainers if they are being asked to mount a girl on their own horses who is not fully ready to conduct herself at a show. I get the concerns voiced here, but I am trying to be fair-minded. There were a lot of other kids and horses at that show, and we don't know what happened. If the trainers are dragging their feet at taking a paying client to a show, it might have been quite disruptive. I don't know.

I have some sympathy in this economy for trainers who are worried that an over the top display-- if that's what it was-- could hurt their living. If I were a professional horse trainer, I would not continue to show a horse that made an enormous bad display in the arena. I would take him home and school him until he was ready to bear the stress of competition.

Perhaps your daughter needs similar attention to her development. Perhaps she needs more patient development at home before she's ready for the stress of competition. And yes-- that may mean a barn that helps her bring her other skills (handling mistakes and problems, managing stress, maintaining composure) into line with her riding.

But show barns are show barns. I don't like them, so I don't run one.

My own daughter knows that it's a golden rule-- no tantrums or meltdowns on or around horses. She has seen me remove riders who lose their cool. So I have sympathy on both sides, and think your daughter may be sending a clear sign that she is not ready to handle competition.
Member:
imogen

Posted on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 - 1:42 am:

Part of competing as a young person is learning how to behave in an adult fashion in stressful situations and to be both courteous and competitive.

This is a great life-lesson, but children who have not had the basics laid at home cannot learn it.

I used to take the yard kids to cross country events and have tried it all - sympathy, running around after them encouraging them, shouting, ignoring the tantrums etc. etc.

Bottom line: down to the parents. You cannot fix a lifetime of boundary/behaviour issues by giving a kid a horse, but you can show them there are other ways of behaving, and I believe this is important to how they choose to develop at a crucial stage in their lives. So take them to the water but don't stress out if they won't drink!

Step back and find out what they enjoy. Many kids are just not competitive and prefer dollying up their ponies and hacking about to going out to events. They give up when boys and cars come along but horses and how to behave around them stay in their lives, and many return to horseriding in their thirties.

All the best

Imogen
New Member:
annimule

Posted on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 - 7:39 am:

I am an animal trainer who uses positive reinforcement with both my animals and students. I think any trainer who would not be empathetic towards your daughter should be given the boot. I am a 56 year old rider with a lot of fear issues. I had to take lessons for a year after getting badly hurt from a fall from an animal before I felt confident enough to ride comfortably again. Since your daughter has anxiety issues I would say she needs someone who will encourage and support her. Anxiety needs a release, crying is often a way to release it. Showing "should" be about more than pretty ponies and money, but often it is not. You should try riding a donkey if you want to see equine snobbery! <g>

Maybe your daughter should try just pleasure riding for awhile to get her confidence back and take some lessons from an empathetic, caring, positive trainer.

I hope your daughter will continue to ride and be able to enjoy it.

Ann W Firestone
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 - 7:43 am:

What if you adopted a rescue, horse or dog, that needed her to be strong & calm? Got her focused on the needs of another living creature, maybe that would lessen her own anxiety? And meanwhile, let her just ride for pleasure on trails, back off on training with an instructor until you find one that has more empathy than the one that said her breaking down would put her career in jeopardy.

You're doing great Mom! Too bad kids don't come with instruction manuals, huh? In spite of all that happens, they all all grow up and turn out fine. Her love of horses is a big plus to her becoming a well adjusted successful adult.
Member:
cheryl

Posted on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 - 9:00 am:

Sara - is there a Pony Club in your area? I can't think of a better way for a child to develop into a well put together adult than growing up in Pony Club. A lot of Pony Clubs have horses for use for kids who don't own a horse. You might also find a way to board a horse with a Club member without the big expense of boarding in a show barn. The Pony Club Rally's would provide a source of competition without reflection on a "trainers" reputation. Might also relieve the anxiety she feels connected with showing.
Just a thought.
Cheryl
Member:
terrido

Posted on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 - 11:42 am:

Sara, there's lots of great suggestions here already. And views from both sides. I am not sure I would stick with a trainer that wasn't a bit more supportive, but sometimes a more "tough love" approach is what's needed.

As to the fear and anxiety, the only way I know of to help move through this is to have someone help her gain her confidence back. This may be harder riding other people's horses, unless you can lease a horse for a more long term. For me anyway, staying wit one horse I could get to know better helped my own confidence level. Getting on a strange horse just brought up all the nerves again. So this may be something to consider.

And then yes she will need someone that is good at helping people work thru fear to gain confidence. This takes vast amounts of patience, and no show agenda. I cannot tell you how many times I have "started over" with my riding due to fear issues after falls. I am the queen of ultimate chickens - still. But my love of riding helps me want to overcome it, as slow a process as that can be at times. For instance I was just bucked off a couple weeks ago, not hurt badly but hurt nonetheless. My balance is all off because of hip and lower back issues post fall. I am "starting over again" with riding, all the way back to the very basics of finding good balance again. This is of course the main "security" the seat. If you're not balanced you don't feel secure so of course you get anxious in the saddle. My balance is all whacked, so I am again working with someone on longe to regain my balance and help my body work the way it is supposed to when I ride. I am old, not a kid so it'll probably take most of the winter to be back where I was a few scant weeks ago. Getting old is SO much fun. haha And of course it was balance that caused the bucking my mare's, not mine.

Anyway my point is maybe you need to find someone else to wok with to help your daughter really gain confidence. But she too has to be willing to go backward in order to move forward. She just cannot be competitive until she does this, imho.

Shortly after purchasing my young mare she bolted on me, long story short I ended up coming off her and wasn't hurt too badly just a few nasty bruises and a really bad concussion. But new horse, young and green horse, hadn't had a horse bolt on me in over twenty years... I was deathly afraid to get back on her. I did get on almost a week later for a lesson. She starting bucking at one point I didn't come off, I wrapped myself around her neck and she stopped and stood still. I got off and refused to get back on. Now my trainer is a good guy and he knows me very well, he knew I wasn't gonna get back on her, and he didn't even really want me to, he asked to find out where my thoughts were without pushing into a more private realm. ;) He then softly suggested that because she is a new horse for me I should really be spending time on the ground with her first and not riding right away, that he longes a horse for a full year before he climbs on them. And then asked me if I might be interested in learning the real art of longing a horse. And yes we talked about my fear and my confidence and a real game plan to help me progress with this new horse. So I learned how to longe a horse alot more correctly over the next 6 months, until I felt ready to climb on her back. And at that point I only rode during our lessons and on a longe line for another like 4 months I think it was. And still that first time he unsnapped the line I got a bit anxious. But my mare too helped build my confidence because she was perfect for me. (Young horse, with constant, consistent work helps immensely too!) But it did give us time to get to know each other much better of course.

Anyway I'd go talk with her current instructors and ask a bzillion questions before completely ruling them out or just go find someone ready to help her learn without showing for a while.
Member:
lhenning

Posted on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 - 3:57 pm:

Anxiety = Fear. Fear is the absence of confidence. Confidence is gained by success.

Small steps that lead to successful outcomes will help your daughter build the confidence she lacks. Personally, I have been down that drug therapy road with my own son. It was not the root of his problem and I wonder if you are looking for a quick fix to help your own daughter. Kids need to find confidence themselves and some of us have it at birth, while others struggle every day. My sister is like that. I don't want to sound judgmental, but you are the one asking us for advice. Could your daughter feeling pushed by you and looking for your praise, be taking too big a step, then failing, and feeling her anxiety deepen? Like "I can't ever be what my Mom wants me to be, therefore I am a failure." Kids feel pressure a lot more than we sometimes realize. In this situation, by not having her show and not asking her to make the choice, you are taking the pressure off her.

I also had great fear issues from a riding accident. The way I overcame them was by taking those small steps and building a little confidence each time I was with my horse. I made my goal to walk away each day feeling confident. It didn't matter if I was the only one that knew it. Maybe my horse felt that too because he trusts me more now than he did then. One day when your daughter feels ready she will tell you, and maybe she will learn more about handling her anxiety in other situations too.

Good luck,
Linda
Member:
imogen

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 14, 2008 - 5:04 am:

Fearfulness = harm avoidance + approach behaviour is now thought to be at least half genetic in origin. So don't beat yourself up thinking you have been a bad parent or teacher, instead adapt to the situation.

Best suggestion above, in my opinion, is pony club.

Imogen
Member:
dtranch

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 14, 2008 - 5:49 am:

"I'd love to hear from you trainers as to what you do with students who are anxious or fearful, yet really want to ride."

First of all ... I wouldn't go to shows to learn to ride. Like it or not, all shows are competitive and that adds pressure. Learning to ride requires us to remove as much pressure as possible. I believe you are putting the proverbial cart before the horse.

Before we can learn to ride properly, we need to learn about the horse, and ourselves. Begin the learning process from the ground. Get to know the horse, learn to control yourself and the horse. Gain confidence one step at a time with each successful contact with the horse.

Most true "show barns" are the last place a young girl who wants to learn to ride should be. Look into pony clubs, 4H programs, etc. The best thing you could do is find someone who is reasonably experienced with horses and loves to share and teach that experience (like a lot of these great HA folks). Let your daughter "hang out" at a barn with people like this and she will learn more than you can imagine. If she finds she truly has the passion and wants to grow into something more formal, then you might look into a trainer or instructor. Let her find out on her own if that is what she wants to do.

DT
Member:
starda01

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 14, 2008 - 9:30 am:

Wow! I knew I came to the right people.

I have been reading and giving a tremendous amount of thought to all of your suggestions in light of the situation.

First, let me assure you, my daughter does not have to show, she wants to, badly. There are many people at this barn that don't show. I have constantly told her that it doesn't matter and there are more ways to have fun with a horse than to show. And, it would be cheaper.

On the other hand, she's gotten bullied in the past by the kids who do show, and have the expensive ponies. That, in turn, fed into her own insecurities. But the fact is, she rides much better than most of them do. Again, if tomorrow she said she'd rather take up dance, or knitting, its up to her. But this is what she has chosen and its her challenge to herself. If I said to her, ok, no more shows, she'd be devastated because she'd feel that she indeed was proven a failure.

The owner of the barn is a man who trained international jumpers. He told me once, she needs to keep on going to shows bc only by having a lot of exposure, good and bad, will she get some perspective and begin to accept that there are good times and bad times. Mind you, this series of shows are schooling shows and they are held once a month.

The anxiety she has, has been something which permeates her life and at times has been crippling to her. She has been on the meds for a couple of years. I couldn't quite get her to accept there was a problem. I think now, she's older, she's just beginning to see that it is a problem that she has to deal with. I think I need to find a therapist to help her deal with it, bc its beginning to become an eating issue too. I've got a doctor's appointment this week.

I, too, love the Pony Club idea. We live in Miami, and unfortunately, there are no pony clubs locally. And when I've talked to people about it, they don't seem to know what I'm talking about. There isn't much free land where we are, so trail riding areas have to be trailered to, which gets expensive if one has to pay for the horse and the trailer. I so wish I did live in an area where she could find more lovely things to do with horses.

She does hang out all day Saturday and Sunday helping the instructors tack up and wash down the horses as kids come for lessons. She gets free rides for it, she often exercises other ponies, esp if a school pony is a bit uppity. She gets herself up early and wakes me up to get out there. This past summer she got an attitude about it, and the instructors set her straight, but they also run her ragged a lot. I told her we could switch barns if she wanted to, but she might not have the opportunity to ride as much in a new place. I wanted her to weigh out her options and she decided to stay bc she wants to ride. No kid would put up with what she does who didn't have the passion. It also does help her to have other girls there who are just as passionate and also serving as "slaves".

I love the idea of adopting an animal in need. Its very expensive to keep a large animal here, though.

Continued below
Member:
starda01

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 14, 2008 - 9:54 am:

Elizabeth, I meant by "falling apart", she had fallen off, and so led her pony out, crying the whole way, and then refused to go back for the rest of her classes. Maybe I didn't do her any favors, to my discredit, bc I did insist she get back and at least do a flat class. Why? Because I knew if she didn't she feel worse about the whole thing. She said later, she wished she had. It affected her all month. Every time she made a mistake she broke down crying. Its impossible for both student and instructor. And one of the reasons I opted to increase the meds.

I understand that the purpose of the competitions is to help the kids learn good sportsmanship, and that carries over into their adult life. But they are kids, and will not always live up to our adult expectations. I'd like you to watch a video I have of her, riding the same pony she fell off, at a different show, in which she also took a fall, but got back on with determination and finished the whole rest of her division.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydhz5xE2nXs
She can do it.

I don't know if she just put more pressure on herself this time, or if its hormones changing that have kicked up her anxiety levels a notch.

I thank all of you for your suggestions. You are a great group for support. I hope I don't sound like I'm arguing with you since I did ask for your ideas. Its just my way of sorting it through, trying to draw a clearer picture.

I think at this time, I need to consult with her doctor about the meds, and also get her into some therapy. Because its something she'll have to deal with throughout her life. I want her to learn some skills for calming herself. I don't want to have to take her away from something she loves,and not managing it would make it dangerous. But if she can compete successfully at this level, by that, I don't mean she has to win every time, I believe she can gain a lot from that too. Beyond the level of schooling shows, I can't afford, so its not even in the cards.

Pony Club would be infinitely preferable, but I don't have that option at present. If her trainers prove intractable, then I will have to switch her to another barn. I won't have them undercut what I'm trying to do.

So many ideas to mull over here.

Thanks again, Sara
Member:
corinne

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 14, 2008 - 11:17 am:

Sara in addition to anything your physician prescribes I strongly recommend Yoga and other forms of fun activities. Hormones at that age definately play into things as her body is rapidly changing. I say to continue to support her interests like you have, to show support through positive reinforcement and encourage her to hang out with the more positive individuals at the barn. I am sure there is a lot of pressure for her to succeed put upon her by the other little girls (sorry kids can be cruel) and if the instructors are that negative about someone who is disappointed in themselves after a fall I still say to look for someone else. These are schooling shows, not the A Circuit. Yes is there sportsmanship to learn? you bet, however these instructors just sound like they shouldn't be teaching impressionable children.
In that clip where she fell and got right back up, there had to be something said, something done to empower her. To encourage her. You need to replicate that or find someone who can when things don't go right in a class or a lesson.
Also have a discussion before the class if she WANTS to show, that if she falls off, she will understand that it happens to everyone and you should encourage her to get back on, not force her. And if she still feels too nervous perhaps she should go to the warm up ring, have a good go round on the flat then dismount and call it a day. Riding nervous over jumps can lead to injury of both rider and horse.

Good luck and keep us posted!
Member:
jowidner

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 14, 2008 - 11:40 am:

Sara,

I've been following this thread, and my heart so goes out to you and your daughter. She strikes me as a very gutsy and determined young lady.

Another option for dealing with anxiety, a changing body, and improving riding skills is taking Alexander Technique lessons. AT teachers are trained to be exceptionally supportive of their students and help them to release excess muscle tension, calm and focus their minds, and understand their thinking and the triggers that set off anxiety.

You are lucky in that there is a fantastic AT teacher in your area named Mead Andrews. She is the sort of person that one immediately feels at ease with and she has been teaching for many, many years. Her email address is meadandrews@aol.com. She may also have some good ideas about resources in your area that may be of help to you and your daughter.

Best wishes,

Jo Ann
Member:
36541

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 14, 2008 - 11:59 am:

Just my opinion, but what I see in this one example video is a rider who is too insecure in her seat and leg to be jumping. She is riding ahead of the jump and fell off with only a small disruption in her horse's cadence. She needs some time on the flat and some exercises to secure her seat and leg. A stronger base would add to her confidence all the way around. Has she done any longe lessons? Ridden bareback much? Those things would help.
Member:
jowidner

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 14, 2008 - 12:08 pm:

One other thought. Have your daughter's instructors worked with her about what to do when things go wrong? In the video she looks fine, right in the middle of her horse, but she got loose and lost her stirrups and then things went downhill from there.

Lots of work on DrOpping stirrups, and picking them up again make regaining stirrups second nature. Also, one can (with an assistant and a quiet pony) explore moving out of balance in the saddle, and then regaining balance. These kind of skills will help her so that she will know specifically what to do if she gets loose in the tack.
Member:
rdrj

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 14, 2008 - 12:34 pm:

Another perspective:I have been following this thread because I also often have to deal with a child's anxiety and love the various opinions offered here. I think the pony looks consistently safe and that child's skill level is fine for the job being asked. Sometimes mental anxiety can make your legs wobbly and so make it appear that the skill and strength are not there. I did see one safety issue tho, and that is the reins are so long (horse length) as to make the bight dangerously dangling near the child's foot.
Member:
terrido

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 14, 2008 - 2:41 pm:

Teens and pre-teens, the years most of us would rather forget, I think. haha OK, so you have a basic game plan to help her with her overall anxiety issues, and your ideas sound like good things to pursue for her.

You've said she is really committed to her riding, and it does appear she is much like the rest of us, we love horses, and love to ride because it is so much fun and a bit of a personal challenge too. This is nothing to sneeze at! haha And unfortunately for you Mom, most likely she wont grow out of it. Oh she may push horses and riding to the back burner for a bit but eventually most likely she'll find a way to start riding again.

Just because these are small schooling shows doesn't make the 'competitive pressures' any less for her. Especially if all her friends are there participating. ;] Why not try giving her a bit more responsibility in this area? Or something to think about. What if you were to have her instructors agree she needs much more time learning to ride and they're willing to help her with that, and you suggest to her that she can enter into a show if and only if she truly feels secure enough in her riding that she won't be anxious or nervous about doing it. Now the tricky part is to come up with solid ways to "measure" how anxious she really is, and you both agree to these markers. One may be her instructor's view of her ability, one may be if she gets more irritable the day before the show, maybe she is too anxious.... etc. write these down and use it as checklist if she says she believes she is really ready. This may help a bit, placing a bit more responsibility on her shoulders for her actions might make a bit of difference, because hopefully she'll put better thought into it.

She clearly though does not have a very secure seat in the video you supplied. Sorry Mom, but she has much to learn about basic riding first. Going over fences is great fun, unless you are usually so off balance you come off - alot! What I see in that video is someone that rides like I used to. Her knees are mostly off the saddle, her lower leg/ankle is clamped on, she has way too much sway in her lower back/leaning too forward at incorrect times/causes legs to go too far back to help her balance well, etc. I won't go into her hands. There's lots that can be improved, obviously. (At one point in canter she wasn't even sitting on the horse, totally not balanced there.)

It takes a very special horse to be able to handle unbalanced riders well, this horse clearly is a gem. She lost her stirrups on that landing, imo, because she was too clamped up in her lower legs, no weight down into the irons. An insecure seat will do this. You can tell by her toes pointing almost dead perpendicular to the horse's sides, her heels basically digging into the horse. With her feet pointed outward like this her knees cannot be on the saddle well enough to help her. And by her being off balance and leaning too far forward even in the two point, she ended up on his neck.

The key I think for her would be someone to teach her first how to have a secure seat. Then she can learn how to more correctly post the trot, etc. Again, all this is just my opinion. If I had her as a student I would begin back at the very beginning on a longe horse at halt (! yes this is where one begins) and then at walk until she proves to me she has a decent enough seat, then up to trot with correct rising... etc. I wouldn't recommend any shows until I felt she could enter and stay on, despite show jitters. Forget being competitive, just staying on top is the number one priority. It's was rather comical to me that when I first learned to "post the trot" no one taught me how to do it the right way. I could rise up out of the saddle and sit back down again mostly looking like I was doing it right, yet I wasn't at all, and yet all the instructors I had never said a word about the fact that I was doing it all wrong. I am amazed I stayed on as much as I did for so many years riding that way. It took someone to point out to me what balance on a horse really was before I could really grasp what it felt like to feel secure on top of a horse. Many people can naturally balance themselves on a moving object, seems though I thought I could do it, I really had no clue that I wasn't doing it. If that makes sense?

I can only speak from my own experience of insecurity and anxiety when riding. When I was Lea's age I would literally shake until I was mounted on a horse, I was so anxious and terrified, but still couldn't wait to be on the horse. The difference in my own confidence level increased a thousand fold once I knew that I could actually sit a horse and stay on because I was balanced well enough to be able to react when I needed to. Just about everything any horse gave me I easily and effortlessly rode out, including an unexpected pop jump over a 3 step mounting block, after standing in front of it for a few minutes quietly, that ended in a twisting buck before his feet hit the ground again. I never left the saddle.

The concept is pretty simple, if you are balanced you should be able to stay on, if not you will probably come off. If you ride tense you will definitely come off, and when I am insecure I get more tense. I am sure this also happens with Lea. ;]

Best of luck to her and to you. I do think staying into horses will help her in the long run learn to deal with herself. And yes keeping a horse is expensive no matter where you are. Some barns have lesson horses they will lease to students. You might want to ask about that.
Member:
starda01

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 14, 2008 - 2:53 pm:

Rita, I agree with you, the reins were too long, so we switched them out to pony reins. Also, she had been showing this pony and she isn't being asked to do something above her skill level or the pony's abilities.

As to her seat, her stirrups are too short. This pony is very downhill, hence she tends to overjump. Her stirrups are sort of acting as a springboard and literally bouncing her out of the saddle. Stirrup length is something we've all fought with her about. And she's finally been convinced to lengthen them. Why? Because she'd got the idea in her head that she was too big for the pony and if she was too big they might not let her show that pony anymore. So she'd keep shortening them. That's been fixed now, after I talked to the judge and told her what he'd said.

And yes, Princess is a gem.
Member:
ribbons

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 14, 2008 - 4:30 pm:

Sara,

Everyone has given you very good advice. I just wanted to add that what I found helpful for my daughter when she was showing was to find a trainer who was interested in helping my daughter be the very best horseperson and rider she could be-regardless of how she finished in the class. What mattered was how my well my daughter felt she did in ring. In my case, I observed a young lady at the barn who was showing successfully and whose riding and horsemanship I admired. She was very patient and calm with young horses and never asked them to do more than they were able to at each stage of training which led me to believe that she would be a good teacher for my daughter.

She eventually became a sort of "big sister" for my daughter and helped her get through those turbulent years. Under this young lady, my daughter evented successfully for several years until she made the decision that she had jumped high enough and galloped fast enough for her.Perhaps there might be someone like that around your barn. She didn't charge nearly what the big name trainers did and my daughter got much better instruction with no "trainer attitude."
Member:
dres

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 14, 2008 - 5:05 pm:

Great pony.. What I see is a young rider that has no independence in the saddle..She relies on her hands to balance herself, she is squeezing the horse with her heels.. Shows are scary PERIOD , riding in front of mom's at fence giving last minute advice / friends riding or watching / trainer couching..
Back to basics.. lots of flat work , lots of tack cleaning / barn cleaning just hangin out with the horses.. This will help hugely with all ..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 14, 2008 - 6:31 pm:

Sara,

I've always been interested in nutrition, vitamins, and the negative affects of chemicals in our food.

I hate to think of any child being on any medications without first doing a major diet overall. There is tons and tons of information out there, and I don't want to overwhelm you, and you may know lots of this already, but having a teenaged daughter I know how awful their diets can be. And having kids that all had "allergies and/or asthma", I can tell ya healthy eating and supplements works wonders!

Many people, and especially kids, are very sensitive to many of the things in our environment, like food additives. MSG, food coloring, caffiene, preservatives to name a few. Sugar should have the poison symbol on it. Corn syrup is on everything unless you read labels, you get tons of it daily.

I fight with my basket ball playing daughter daily to take a good multi, 2 fish oil caps, and green drink. And to eat 3 good meals, and healthy snacks, AND sleep 8-9 hours a night!

And yes, there is a big difference in her mood, concentration, and energy level depending on the above factors.

Just some things to consider if you haven't already. If you do make changes, make them slowly, and give it a month or 2 to see any differences.
Member:
starda01

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 15, 2008 - 1:41 am:

I've put up the video of this last show, with my daughter riding a new pony. She managed to fix some of her riding faults, has a new saddle, and her head was in a much calmer place. I confess I don't know how,(maybe the judge wasn't looking),but in spite of breaking gait and that big buck, she won the flat class and won Reserve Champion for the division. She came out of that show feeling very good. She decided to DrOp one class bc she didn't want the stress of it. It was a step forward.

The video is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyDHyZgxpWU
Member:
dres

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 15, 2008 - 9:14 am:

Sara same rider.. ? Maybe the question is a horse she is comfortable on.. In this video i see a much more relaxed young rider enjoying her pony and course..!

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
corinne

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 15, 2008 - 9:42 am:

Great job! Have you ever thought about Dressage for her? She just seems so much more comfortable on the flat and flat work and dressage builds skills that would translate better in the jumping arena. I think the best jumpers are those who also ride dressage...eventers especially! And since the flat classes are improving her confidence I say use that to work with the anxiety. Once it's built then move on the jumping in the show arena. Dressage riders use cavaletti as well. It's the best of both worlds.
Member:
jowidner

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 15, 2008 - 11:39 pm:

Wow, she looks much more secure and confident than she did in the first video. Congratulations to her on her ribbon and on the great progress she has made through the summer. Way to go!
Member:
36541

Posted on Thursday, Oct 16, 2008 - 6:31 am:

Now that is a lovely seat, supple back and nice deep leg. Maybe you could have her read this thread, or some of our before and after the two videos comments at least, as a compliment to her progress. I agree wholeheartedly with Corinne about the dressage. As a discipline, it may be a super match and challenge for her mental development as well. You can always use the jumping for cross-training with any kind of riding... best wishes to you both. Stacy
Member:
starda01

Posted on Thursday, Oct 16, 2008 - 10:11 am:

Thanks all,
I shall pass along the compliments. I do also think a more uphill pony helped. He's a rascal, but he could be good for her.

I concur about the dressage training. There is a school horse, a older Tb who was a circuit hunter in his day. I want her to start riding him for lessons, bc he's schooled in dressage too. I haven't convinced her yet, everyone is so into the jumping they forget how important the fundament flatwork really is. I'm working on it!
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