|
|
Discussion on Tell me about western saddles ... should I get one?
|
| Author |
Message |
Member:
chrism
|
Posted on Monday, Dec 8, 2008 - 12:18 pm:
Hi,
I've an older dressage mare (25!) that can still be unruly at times. (I'm not so young myself and hate unruly.) The younger mare is sensitive, but sensible, so I'm not so concerned about her.
Soo ... older gal is ridden casually to keep her fairly fit and exercising. After a nice "fall" ride, a friend and I parked under an apple tree to pull fruit and feed the horses while on horseback. I did not factor in the rotten fruit on the ground and the attracted yellow jackets ... well, I am just getting over a shoulder injury that my doc in the box said reminded him of parachute injuries at Ft. Brag!!
In any case, after kicking myself for foolishness, I was kicking around the idea of using a western saddle on the old gal for a bit more of my security (and staying away from rotten fruit).
So, are they really more secure?
If she takes a Wintec XW dressage saddle, would she be a candidate for full quarter horse bars?
How do you "compute" the size of a Western saddle vs. English for the rider? If I take a 17 Kieffer, would I take a 15 Western? (Wintec said yes.) I'm 5'9" ... average to slight build.
And, since they seem heavy, my bias would be for a synthetic such as Abetta, Wintec, etc. Am I wasting money?
If I buy "used" do I test the tree the same way as an English?
Thoughts? TIA for all advice, perspectives, opinions.
|
Member:
ajudson1
|
Posted on Monday, Dec 8, 2008 - 12:54 pm:
Chris,
I love western saddles, my attempts at riding English really stunk.
I would not go with Wintec, or Abetta, neither in my opinion are very comfortable, well made, or worth the money.
A good inexpensive saddle is the Big Horn brand.
Big Horn.https://www.horsesaddleshop.com/big-horn-saddles.html
Worth trying if you are not sure if it will work out or not, and the guys at the horsesaddleshop are great with helping you with fit and size. I was all ready to order new and found 2 used ones before I placed the order. I ride in one, my 14 year old daughter uses the other one. (My best saddle in the Circle Y BMSport treeless, but they don't make them anymore, and that's a whole 'nother discussion)
My 6' tall, 210 pound husband rides in the larger one which is a 16" but other than that I don't have any advice on sizes, best to try as many as you can before you buy.
The link above offers many more brands.
Oh, and BTW, you can fall out of a western saddle too, lol!
|
Member:
leilani
|
Posted on Monday, Dec 8, 2008 - 2:54 pm:
Hi Chris,
I have a Black Rhino western saddle with a 14.5" seat. It is very comfortable and fits both my mares nicely. I have also added a night latch for a little extra protection in the event of a "rodeo" incident. Leilani
|
Member:
dove2
|
Posted on Monday, Dec 8, 2008 - 3:29 pm:
I was going to suggest that you look into a balanced seat western saddle, instead of a trail saddle. Most trail saddles put you into an arm chair position, which is comfortable but not the safest riding position. What I call the balanced seat puts you into a dressage position, with the back of your heels in line with your hips and shoulders.
Having said this, I now have to admit there are very few western saddles that offer this. Synergist is one, although it must be fitted and fit perfectly. I know of people whose horses were sored by it. By far the best one out there (that I have come across) is the maker of the Black Rhino saddles (good for you, Leilani!): Dave Genadek - AbouttheHorse.com. Occasionally you can find one of his saddles on EBay or Craigs List, but his website offers used saddles posting as well. You should call him, take the measurements of your horse as he describes, to know which bars to get.
After buying several western saddles, I realized his not only offered the balance, quality work, but also have flaired shoulders on the saddle so the horse can move freely and comfortably. None of the other western saddles fit my horse's shoulders. I highly recommend his saddles.
|
Member:
cgby1
|
Posted on Monday, Dec 8, 2008 - 4:42 pm:
Frankly Chris, I do Not think that a western saddle is any more secure that a deep seated dressage saddle. I used to ride western for trail and both me and my husband were bucked off. Besides the weight, the stirrups are stiff and they killed my knees after about an hour. No saddle will guarantee that you will stay in it, unless maybe you add a seat belt.
|
Member:
terrido
|
Posted on Monday, Dec 8, 2008 - 5:10 pm:
There are so many styles of western saddle. When looking for one for my Friesian mare, ultra wide and super short backed, I too wanted shoulder freedom as well light weight. I also wanted a flexible tree! I found the tree the found a saddle that used it. Not one I would use alot as I don't think it's construction would hold up to years of rigorous use, but for the price it's fine for our use. I am a dressage rider too, not a western rider, so I didn't want to put a couple thousand into a saddle I may use only half a dozen times a year.
Anyway, barrel saddles will place your leg directly underneath you and would be comfy enough on trails. They tend to have rounded skirts too, which does lesson the weight a tad.
As always you will need to measure for the saddle to be sure it would fit. you can use your dressage saddle as a guide too for the gullet width. Definitely full quarter bars, and probably a 6.5 inch or even 7 inch gullet (that's the whither opening). My mare takes a 7 inch full quarter bars, my seat is a 15 inch. (I used the ultra wide gullet plate on my Wintec dressage saddle) I ended up getting the Fabtron Lady Trail saddle, as I said I wanted the tree it's built on. It's a very comfy little saddle and gives me a secure feeling. Though I had to ride in it quite a bit to get used to having so much saddle under me again before heading out on trail in it the first time. It's not too bad all things considered.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Monday, Dec 8, 2008 - 6:02 pm:
If you are going to be doing a lot of riding and want a really comfortable saddle for both you and the horse I high recommend Skyhorse saddle. But, they are pricey. In my case, the one I bought is most probably the last saddle I'll ever buy, so I didn't mind investing the money. The saddle are beautiful and beautifully made. They are made to fit both you and your horse, and it takes about 3 mos. to get the saddle. Although pricey, the makers will take your used saddle back at any time and sell it for you, and the ones I saw for sale were selling at about the same price as the new ones. Check them out at: www.skyhorse.com
Be warned; they are very expensive, but are the most comfortable saddles I have ever sat in. I especially like them as they are made on "old style" trees, which are cut shorter than a lot of trees found on new western saddles, and are cut in allowing much more freedom of movement with the stirrup skirts than most new western saddles. Even if you don't get one, they are fun to look at, and Lisa and Lorn Skyhorse, the makers, are great people and easy to work with.
|
Member:
stevens
|
Posted on Monday, Dec 8, 2008 - 10:25 pm:
Not unlike English or Dressage saddles, there is tremendous variation in Western saddles. I had a Big Horn saddle that was unbearable, I had a tex tan that was nice and still have my custom made Broken Horn saddle that is simply fantastic.
If your primary goal is making it easier to stay in the saddle, then I think it is easier with a western saddle if you have the presence of mind to grab the horn with one hand and the cantle with the other essentially locking yourself in. Obviously, you aren't going to be doing much rein adjustment in this position.
If I were looking for a western working saddle, I'd look for a cutting saddle but then I prefer a flatter seat. You can get over any stiffness in the fenders that Cynthia mentioned by turning them back while on the saddle rack and running a broom handle through the stirrups.
You may also want to consider Aussie saddles, they strike me as being fairly deep seated.
|
Member:
ajudson1
|
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2008 - 7:06 am:
I have a Wintec Aussie saddle that I'd sell, for my taste it's too "English" and I don't love as much as I hoped I would. It's a medium gullet and not the interchangeable one so don't think it would fit your horse, but you might consider that one as now it's available with the adjustable gullet.
Terrie,
I've looked at the Lady Fabtron for Tango as he has more of the Friesian build. I use my treeless on him, and it likes to creep forward.
|
Member:
hpyhaulr
|
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2008 - 9:57 am:
I don't know much about saddles, but I know just a little bit about survival...when I am out in San Diego, I ride with a group of women up in the hills. I really have no business doing this, the only reason I am still alive is due to the fact that 'Cyndy don't ride nothin' with no horn on its back'. Ignore the double negatives and atrocious grammar, when my 'bombproof' horse decided to buck up, and then rear up I grabbed on and held on and Gail was proud of me. There was no way I was doing broken bones or blunt head trauma out there where no cells worked. It was neither experience nor horseducation that kicked in. FEAR, pure & simple. Of course, by the time we rode back to the pit for dinner, I had lukewarm jello where I used to have knees. I was awarded the bottle of Jose Cuervo Gold.... and a slurpee straw. 'nuf said.
|
Member:
stek
|
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2008 - 10:22 am:
I usually ride in a dressage saddle, and bought an aussie saddle for trail riding on my mare who is a bit unreliable and really like it. It fits her like a glove and has a very secure seat, good for rough terrain too. You can get them with or without a horn, and they have lots of places to tie things on as well. I rode western for years but the stirrups always killed my knees after a couple hours, even when well broke in.
One word to the wise .. if your mare has a big trot that requires active posting I would try the saddle out first. The thigh blocks can take some getting used to.
If you have a tack store nearby that has used saddles most places will allow you to take one home and try it on your horse, even ride in it before you buy. There can be so many variations in saddles by different makers, even in the same style, that its hard to tell if you will get a good fit without trying it on.
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2008 - 10:48 am:
Having ridden in both on trail and in the arena I have to say if your going to fall your going to fall, all of my "bad" spills have been out of a western saddle.
I used to ride with quite a few people who usually rode in an english saddle trail riding, I asked them why they didn't try a western and they said it was because an english is what they're used to and felt more secure in it. That horn can be a life saver, but it can also be dangerous
Heck people fox hunt in english saddles, you can't get a much more wilder "trail ride" than that...usually
If you are comfortable in an english saddle and have ridden that way mostly, you may not like the "feel" of a western saddle.
|
Member:
terrido
|
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2008 - 11:52 am:
 Angie that's one of the things about treeless I am not real fond of.
Chris, I think you should go to a local tack shop and try out a few saddles to see what you do and do not like.
The Aussie style is comfy, and like all saddles it's the materials and the construction. Comfort and security is a personal thing with any saddle. We all love our own thing, and not every 'butt' will love every saddle. What I love may not be what's comfy for you. The Wintec Aussie is a really secure seated saddle, for not alot of $$. BUT as pointed out, the "thigh blocks" which are actually called bucking rolls, are a bit large on that saddle. You are meant to always be sitting; they will hold you in the saddle. Now I don't know about you but I'd rather be able to A) post the trot and B) bail if I need to easily!! Same reason I am not a huge fan of the super deep seated dressage saddles, the ones that pt you in position and keep you there. I like to be able to move in the saddle, but for me being able to bail off is paramount.
So go try a few saddles and figure out what you feel most secure in out and about. For a western saddle and the usual "knee torque" that happens, yes turning the fenders will help, but splurge and get stirrup positioners! "EZ Knees" or something like that. I got those for my little saddle, makes a huge difference! (See photo above, saddle allows me to keep my leg directly under me, and my knees do not get torqued.) This saddle has cordura skirting and fenders, but the stirrup part is thick leather and was killing my knees after only 10 minutes. I put these stirrup thingys on and no more pain! I can ride for hours and hours in this little western saddle and be comfy.
|
Member:
dove2
|
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2008 - 12:57 pm:
Terri,
It's quite obvious your position on that gorgeous Friesian is in excellent alignment. You look like you can handle just about anything. So what type of tree does your saddle have, and how did you know that tree was right for your horse?
|
Member:
shanson
|
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2008 - 1:50 pm:
Like you, I ride English the majority of the time. I like the nice secure seat of dressage saddles and keep a bucking strap on when riding a horse I don't completely trust.
I do have a western saddle, though, mostly for guest riders who prefer western saddles. It's a nice older Circle Y reiner that I like a lot. Reining saddles are nice because they allow a good equitation seat and don't throw you into chair seat like many western saddles.
I recommend that you look for a good-quality used western saddle. You can find good deals on older saddles and a good one, like my at-least 15 year old Circle Y reiner, holds its value, so that you can sell it if it doesn't work out. Buy a new one and just like a new car, it depreciates the minute you walk out of the tack shop! Good older saddles tend to be heavy though at 25-30 lbs. Worth it to me to have a solid saddle that I can resell if I need to. I'd avoid roping saddles because I've found them uncomfortable for trailriding and they are really heavy because of the work they're designed for.
Concerning seat size, the rule of thumb is subtract 2 inches from your english saddle size to determine your Western saddle size. So, 15 inches is roughly equivalent to a 17-inch english saddle. Like English saddles, a lot depends on your thigh length so you'll have to sit in a few to determine what fits. FYI...I'm 5'8" with a medium build, but long in the thigh. I ride a 17.5 or 18-inch dressage saddle and a 15.5 to 16-inch western saddle.
|
Member:
terrido
|
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2008 - 1:57 pm:
(*blush*) thanks, she is a beautiful girl but I am a bit biased. In this photo she is on full alert too, OMG COWS! haha was our first attempt at handling cows, very scary stuff. I was totally secure in this little saddle even with her dancing under me.
My dressage saddle has a completely flexible tree, it moves with her, therefore never restricts her movement. I was looking for a similar type of tree and western style saddle, because my preferred saddler's western or trail styles are just way too much money for my use.
My search for a flexible tree in a western style lead me to a tree called a Steele Flex tree. Then I went searching for a saddle built on this tree. Though this particular tree doesn't move in the same way as my dressage saddle's tree, it will flex to fit her body better, and as she moves, so no digging into her like a stiff tree would. This particular saddle was the lightest weight and the best price for my use. It's comfy enough, I actually really like it, but I still have to ride in it a few times to get used to its feel again, before I head out of my arena in it. ;)
|
Member:
chrism
|
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2008 - 4:55 pm:
Ya'll have been most kind sharing your thoughts and given me lots to mull over.
Honestly, I think leaning over to feed an apple while the horse gets stung by a yellow jacket would need something more than a even a western saddle,  , to stay on.
Not sure I will do anything, given the economy. But I do watch craig's list, tack trader, etc. and may find something 2nd hand that would work.
I loved seeing Terrie's photo - looks like great fun.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
|
New Member:
smacemon
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 12:53 am:
Several years ago I went on a saddle search for pretty much the same reasons: Lukas, my then 16yo appendix qh was perfecting his lateral leap and spin and I wanted to be able to stay with him! My solution was an Aussie stock saddle. I ordered it from a website after sending them wither tracings, pictures, etc. The poleys (knee flaps) were there when I needed them, but never kept me from posting or moving as I needed to. I don't have trouble staying in a balanced, centered riding position (some Aussie saddles are built for a "chair seat" position) and the deep seat is secure. Unfortunately, it is a 40lb saddle and Lukas is pretty big.
Lukas is now in semi-retirement due to chronic lameness due to navicular changes. Bailey, the new guy, (5yo paint) is pretty normally shaped but doesn't fit the Aussie, or our older Circle Y trail saddle. So we're in a Circle Y "expedition" Not as deep seated as the Aussie - but very light and very comfortable - both of which are good for my old bones.
Good luck with your saddle search!
|
Member:
maggienm
|
Posted on Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 - 6:37 pm:
I have a 15in Eamore roping saddle. It is totally comfortable for long rides. I can easily stand and ride two point if I want.
I use an 18in dressage saddle, just the difference in the way the saddles are measured.
Some western saddles do put the rider in a more chair seat position. I will go out on a limb and say for a rider who rides less often this may be more comfortable for a long ride.
If the saddle is oiled and the leathers turned back they will mold to your leg.
It would be ideal if you could borrow several different styles(one at a time of course).
They certainly feel different and may feel awkward at first.
Imho they do provide more security esp for the rider who rides less often. (grin)
|
Member:
cgby1
|
Posted on Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 - 7:26 pm:
Hey Chris,
I have a Tex Tan Roping saddle I like to sell! It's in great shape and I would sell it for $350.00 plus shipping. It weighs 35 lbs including both cinches. It's a 15 inch seat with semi-quarter horse tree.
I did the broom stick through the stirrups but still didn't like how stiff and restrictive they were. I guess I could have done what my boarder did, oil them till they dripped and twist them like a cork screw but I didn't like how mangled the stirrups looked. I bought the EZ knee things which you can have, as well as a neoprene cinch.
Now this is the saddle that my husband was on when he got bucked off and broke his collarbone and three ribs. I also got bucked off twice by the same mare while using that saddle, I just managed to land better. The last thing I think to do is grab the horn, I'm too busy trying to get the horse under control. I rode in the hills of south Orange County, CA and you could fall into a ravine on many of the trails. Two people I rode with actually had that happen to them. Luckily they and their horses survived. Since then, I found a trainer who cured her of her desire to buck and then worked with us in dressage. I feel just as secure in my dressage saddle as I did in the western saddle. You said that she can be "unruly" maybe you should look at her training.
|
Member:
annimule
|
Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 4:37 pm:
A friend posted this on a list today and I had to share as it brings up a good point to consider when thinking about a western saddle..."Yep...been there, done that ;>)) My jenny was climbing a pretty vertical creek bank, when it started crumbling beneath her. She started to come over backwards on me, and my bra slid neatly right down over the saddle horn. I spent a couple of frantic seconds before I ripped myself away from it, and thankfully she rolled one way and I the other. As scary as it was, I did have time to think about how "funny" the story would be if I were hung by my bra and subsequently squashed by my Mammoth ass ;>) (Not that I would have been around to enjoy the morbid humor ;>)
I think from now on I'm only going to buy "breakaway" bras.... LOL!!!"
Ann
Ann W. Firestone, President
Save Your Ass Long Ear Rescue
at Broomtail Farm
23 Saw Mill Road
South Acworth, NH 03607
www.saveyourassrescue.org
|
Member:
ajudson1
|
Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 11:10 pm:
Ann,
Did you see my post on "dumb things that happened to me today" awhile back?
I ride in jeans 99.9% of the time, but because it was so hot one day, decided to wear some Kerrits riding tights. I dismounted to shut a gate, and was hung up; the string in the waist band was caught on the horn!
I've also got a denim jacket caught on the horn, and ripped the snaps off of it. AND never EVER ride in a western saddle with a hooded sweatshirt on that has the pocket in the front.
And, I guess no bras when we ride either?!
|
Member:
hpyhaulr
|
Posted on Saturday, Dec 13, 2008 - 7:37 am:
So Angie, in summarizing your suggestions, it is possible that Lady Godiva was not making a political statement so much as proving a risk management axiom???
I get up early this morning and see Angie's post first, and finding her suggestion of no bra riding, get this image of everyone bouncing around the arena in three separate entities creating plastic surgery scheduling nightmares all over the globe. (Time out, it's gonna take a bucket of caffeine to erase that image from my mind's eye)
Then I come to Ann W.'s post..post-caffeine imaginations of that scenario: let's face it, if you die getting rolled by a jackass because your bra got hung up on a saddle horn, when you go to heaven and try to explain that one to St. Peter at the Pearly Gates, he is going to tell you to go to hell...he will firmly warn the human race that noone can lie their way into heaven!!! LOL LOL I can hear Ann W. being hauled off while calling out...."But it's true, it really happened!!Let's go to the video tape"!
Nike's gotta go to work on this one, a 'horn proof' sports bra! The marketing campaign is dizzying!
|
Member:
ajudson1
|
Posted on Saturday, Dec 13, 2008 - 9:12 am:
 Cyndy, What are you drinking in that coffee???
Chris,
Now that you've heard all our horror stories with the saddle horn, might I direct you to the endurance type saddles that have NO horn? Or have you decided to give up riding completely, and perhaps become a master chess player?
You know something just came to mind. My brief experiences in an English saddle...I remember thinking there was nothing in front of me. You'd think just the fact that the western saddle has the pommel would make it more secure. The horn isn't there for an emergency handle!
BTW, I buy nylon dog collars at the Dollar Store, and I have 2 attached to the front of my saddles for a bucking strap, one on each side. FYI, your hand can slip off the horn if you get in a real rodeo situation, but you can hang on securely with your hand wrapped around the collar. Of course, you have to grab that strap before the action starts. What I do is have both collars pulled up on the top of the horn if I think there is going to be some action. I think I am past that with all of our horses now, but the collars are staying on.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Saturday, Dec 13, 2008 - 11:01 am:
Angie, now I would worry about a hand getting caught in one of those nylon straps!
I like a western saddle's horn, but not for security. I think any deep saddle, like a dressage or Aussie saddle gives a lot of security. I use the horn when ponying, to hang stuff off of, etc. Of course, it's original purpose was for roping, but I don't do much of that!
|
New Member:
boots
|
Posted on Saturday, Dec 13, 2008 - 7:31 pm:
Hi all - I have been reading you for some time but have just signed on to post. My western saddle saved me from a crash also. I was just getting back into riding (after a 50 year break!) when my mare decided that a monster was surely coming out of those woods and eat her. When the crashing and bouncing stopped, I was remarkably still aboard. My fanny pack had slipped over the horn and kept me in a really neat seat belt. But don't count on this ever working again!
|
Member:
erika
|
Posted on Saturday, Dec 13, 2008 - 10:13 pm:
I am in hysterics over this post! I had no idea a horn could be so problematic! Or is it simply the warDrObe?
I used to use a western saddle when I rode Sugar alone--she is WAAAAAYYY too handy, and if anything spooks her you are hanging in the trees wondering how she got out of sight so quickly!
I did switch to a deep seated dressage saddle, though, because she was such a jumper, and I couldn't resist jumping anything with decent ground on either side! The horn is less than comfy over jumps, too. (Gawd, I miss riding that mare!)
Also, Western saddles just kill my knees!
Erika
|
Member:
hpyhaulr
|
Posted on Sunday, Dec 14, 2008 - 7:16 am:
Welcome, Boots!
I am thinking maybe we should retitle this thread
"WarDrObe malfunctions for the REAL world".
Lesson learned: I have used up more than my share of luck and have been laboring under a false sense of security. Prior to this thread, it had never occurred to me that the horn could turn evil and hurt me more than protect me. In his previous life Walt(Mr. Cowboy wannabe) was a hunter jumper. He still likes to ride his english, but swears the most comfortable saddle he has ever planted his butt into is an old roping trophy saddle he got at a truck stop in Arizona about 2 years ago. A down on his luck old cowboy was selling his saddle for fuel money to get home. Walt gave him a couple hundred bucks and felt that he overpaid at the time, but was trying to help the guy out without eroding any more of his dwindling pride, but once Walt used the saddle... he embarked on a whole new guilt trip sort of wishing he had given the guy more $$. It has seen a lot of use and really needs some work. Gotta get Walt to part with it for a while) but he LOVES that saddle. I am not allowed to used it as he is confident that he will never get that one back (like a couple of his sweatshirts). And he is usually right about these things......According to Walt, it is by far the most comfortable saddle he has ever ridden.
|
Member:
ajudson1
|
Posted on Sunday, Dec 14, 2008 - 10:14 am:
That's a great idea for a thread title!
I think the best saddles are the old ones; many had the pommel that curved in such way that you could tuck your knees under it somewhat if you were on bucking bronc.
What is with these super expensive saddles that are full of carving, and silver? I want a good ol' fashioned smooth leather saddle; easy to clean, stirrups set under my body just so, deep seat, short skirts. Do you know how hard it is to find a saddle like that? And I like a smooth seat, not the sticky ones.
Erika,
I had a beautiful western saddle years ago. Looked great on my horses, looked comfortable. But I could never ride in it for long with my knees and the side of my ankles hurting. And this was 25 years ago when my body was a lot more flexible! It really depends on the saddle.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Sunday, Dec 14, 2008 - 10:30 am:
Cyndy and Angie, you are so right about the old saddles. And, there's a reason; the trees are different in the older saddles. I've forgotten the name of the tree most of the old saddles were built on (a saddle maker told me one time)but they are shaped quite differently than the newer saddles. I was thrilled when I found Lou (trainer where our stallions are now) used older saddles. They, imo, fit more horses better as well as the people. Unless it is a parade saddle or some other special purpose saddle, the older saddles have less skirting also. Most of today's saddles have way too much skirting, whose only purpose is to display all that silver Angie dislikes.
|
New Member:
sodmonst
|
Posted on Sunday, Dec 14, 2008 - 2:19 pm:
I had good luck with old saddles on ebay. I check the leather condition carefully, look for the good old-time brands, good trees. I check the quality of the leather carving and/or tooling. As a rule, I do not find labor intensive decorative work on a junk saddle. I ask lots of questions and ask for photos from direct behind, direct front, sides, side rigging. For a trail and pleasure saddle, I look for 3/4 rigging that puts the cinch behind the front of the tree. The seller must be willing to stand behind the integrity of the tree and rigging.
Today, my $3500 Western saddle stays in the closet. I ride a great, vintage saddle that cost $200 on ebay. I have another perfect old highback Porter that I got for $400. It is very secure. I am 5'8" and wear a size 8. A 15" saddle is great. With all that said, who CAN stay on a horse under the conditions you described.}
|
Member:
chrism
|
Posted on Sunday, Dec 14, 2008 - 10:41 pm:
Between laughing and wondering what I've stirred up with my questions ... who knew a horn and a bra could be so problematic? Or even interact?
Maybe my one of my basic beliefs is wrong ... that a western saddle is inherently more secure for the rider than a dressage saddle?
The idea of sending this mare off to a cowboy would not be a kindness since she is 25 and semi retired. Normally pro training is a good idea. But at 25, I think she is what she is and since she has been with me 21 years, I can continue to live with it. She is good as gold about 95% of the time. Her potential unruliness shows as a spook/startle/prop when surprised and she is very handy.
The atypical recent bucking episode was likely due to a yellow jack sting since we were hanging out in rotten fruit and reminded me of what she was very capable of in the past and what I, for the most part worked her through when I was younger and meaner. I tend to measure time between unhorsings in "years" - this time it was nearly 2 years - and she was the culprit then, too. (Our parting of ways then was a mis-understanding at a nice forward canter when I said let's go left this time and she said, no we've been going right and I said no, left please and she said wait, what, huh, arrrrgh a 4 foot fence and I don't jump any more!)
The thought of the western saddle today was to improve my hand a little. And, frankly if what the old gal and I are doing is mostly trailing and not dressage, my "belief" system suggests the western saddle would be more comfortable to us both. Is that a truism?
Oh and both of my saddles have bucking straps. I've never found them to be where they needed to be when I needed them ... they are basically helpful for lifting the saddle.
Cynthia G, thanks for the kind offer. I am looking locally, used, and hopefully lighter (reducing carbon offsets?) ... and have a possible line on a Fabtron that is looking for a new home. Test fit/ride is Wednesday, so will see.
The more I research, the more I am struggling with the whole bar sizing thing, not to mention skirts, gaited, gullets, etc. When did western saddle makers decide to make saddle fitting as complicated as the dressage folks?
I'll let ya'll know how my search goes ..
|
Member:
cgby1
|
Posted on Monday, Dec 15, 2008 - 7:11 pm:
I would recommend that you try it out before you buy. Personally I love both my dressage saddle and my allpurpose english saddle and I will never go back to a western saddle.
The trainer worked with her at my place and if you look on the internet you can find trainers who sell dvd's and books to help you. Does she buck or is it a bolting problem? It is not necessary to run her into the ground to help her. You can also ask Denny, one of our HA members how he would work with her at her age.
Cynthia
|
Member:
erika
|
Posted on Monday, Dec 15, 2008 - 9:45 pm:
Where is our darlin' Denny these days?
|
Member:
chrism
|
Posted on Monday, Dec 15, 2008 - 10:27 pm:
I don't want to malign her ... she has been there and done that and is a good horse with lots of experience under her belt/girth. She just is sensitive/reactive to her environment and that can result in an abrupt behavior - usually a DrOpped shoulder and 90 degree turn. The bucking is pretty much gone, (unless stung), . If she is really hot to trot at the beginning of a ride, she may dance around till you are going.
She was awarded "best behaved" at our last small group trail ride. But she'd never make it at a dude ranch ... too many dead dudes. (I've been a dudette at a few ranches over the years and the western saddles didn't faze me one way or the other ... )
Bottom line, she is just a fairly hot, sensitive horse that can go from 0 to 60 rather quickly, has an opinion and ranks high in the herd. She also has a big heart, won't quit and follows me around like a pup.
I really have no desire to change her. Just maximize my staying power when riding.
Test ride is on Wednesday.
|
Member:
cgby1
|
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 16, 2008 - 2:57 pm:
You just described my mare before I started working with my trainer! Reactive, sensitive and very bonded to me. If you go to "New to Dressage" you can read about our journey. As well as see pics of our first schooling show. Years ago when she was still green I worked with a "parelli" based trainer, great guy but he didn't know the technique to cure the bucking problem. When I started riding out with my friends she was pretty well behaved, I even went on a ride with my ETI club. Camping with 60 horses and their families. However a couple times she got scared and bolted with me, luckily both times on flat ground in a park. The first time I stopped her after a few feet, the second time we were following my friends across a murky little pond in the trail and it was deeper than she expected. She frantically leaped out dodging the other horses and it took me about a 100 feet to get her stopped. That was when I realized that both my legs were on one side of her and all I had to do was let go of one rein and DrOp to the ground! I could never let down my guard with her until after I started with Lyn. Since then she is a different horse, trusting and relaxed. Besides trailering her to shows, I have ridden her on trails while ponying her daughter. I have also taken her to the Ingalls covered arena in Norco, CA where they were grinding rock into gravel. First time we went there, first time in a covered arena, tremendous noise and she behaved beautifully! There is hope for almost any horse with the right training.
Cynthia
|
Member:
dtranch
|
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 16, 2008 - 7:38 pm:
Erika Darlin' .... So glad you been missin me.
My personal opinion is that a good western saddle is actually more comfortable for the horse as the weight of the rider is spread out over more area.
The most important thing is to make sure there is plenty of room at the withers so the saddle doesn't rub, skirts are not too long or too far back so as to interfere with the hip when tranisitioning up to a lope, and that the bars are wide enough so they don't pinch in at the shoulder. I have found some pretty good saddles for $300 or so, and I've seen a lot of bad ones over $1000. Just make sure it fits your horse first, and your seat second.
The first thing I do with a new saddle is dip it in a water tank to soak both fenders really well. I then stick a bar through the stirrups and hang a cement block from both sides to put weight on the bar to form the fenders so the stirrups naturallly hang the way they should with your feet in them. I then oil it down real good.
One other thing I have found is to get some wider stirrups so your feet fit comfortably with a good base under the balls of your feet. These two things will elimninate the stress on the knees and feet.
DT
|
Member:
chrism
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 17, 2008 - 6:13 pm:
Well, we are the proud owners of a used 15" Fabtron. It fit me fine and seemed okay with the mare - we worked lightly W/T/C and she seemed foward and relaxed.
I guess the proof will be in a longer ride. If it turns out to make her uncomfortable, I think I can sell it for what I paid for it fairly easily as it was a deal.
Now I need to consider what type of pad to use ... not too thick and easy to wash ... and buy a cinch.
Oh and what do you use to clean/treat the leather and the Cordura?
TIA for any suggestions.
|
Member:
stek
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 17, 2008 - 6:32 pm:
With western saddles I am a fan of the wool felt pads. They provide good cushion and air flow and come in different thicknesses. For girths, I like a good quality mohair string girth. One warning .. be careful of overtightening. On a western saddle it always seems to me like you can get more leverage than with english when cinching up.
I would probably treat the leather the same as any other tack, a good wash with saddle soap and the occasional oiling. Cordura you might spray with a fabric protection spray but in general that stuff seems to be pretty hard wearing and tough. Is this a synthetic saddle?
|
New Member:
sodmonst
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 17, 2008 - 7:04 pm:
This is a description of the best pad I've found for keeping my horse happy.
Impact Gel's best selling pad, constructed with a two-piece wool and polyester felt that is 3/4" thick. Hand sewn with contoured cut outs to deliver exceptional comfort for both the horse and rider, plus provides an excellent fit along the horse’s spine to reduce slipping and saddle roll. Also features wear leathers for durability.
|
Member:
ajudson1
|
Posted on Thursday, Dec 18, 2008 - 8:04 am:
I love the Impact Gel Pad also. But any good felt pad is the winner in my book. I prefer the kind that is 2 piece, and cut out in front. I wish I could remember the website that had them in all sizes, and thicknesses. You can get a thinner one, and put a pretty blanket on top of it too.
I have cordura on my saddles, it's pretty tough stuff. I've hosed off the whole saddle, and then oiled the leather afterwards.
I'd vote for a roper cinch, there are wider under the horse.
The one down fall with western cinches is many of them do not have any "give" like English girths. I think there is one out there, I don't recall what it's called. The mohair will give but Shannon is correct about over tightening.
|
Member:
chrism
|
Posted on Thursday, Dec 18, 2008 - 8:04 am:
It is a Fabtron - leather and cordura, used.
I've the usual pile of leather cleaning products around the house and both barns. I cleaned the leather parts with a spray on saddle soap and then put on some Effax leather conditioner since that was what I had at that barn. For western saddles, is it better to use saddle soap and neatsfool oil or Lexol for example?
I just used a bit of water on the Cordura areas that looked dusty.
Thanks all.
|
Member:
ajudson1
|
Posted on Thursday, Dec 18, 2008 - 8:58 am:
I like the Lexol ph balanced leather cleaner and conditioner. Neatsfoot oil is over kill I think, very messy, and it will stay greasy IMO. Leather is leather, care for a western saddle the same as you would an english saddle, or any leather product.
I think I've used the leather cleaner on the cordura too, just rinsed it off. Been awhile since I cleaned anything really good, sounds like a good winter project.
|
Member:
gailkin
|
Posted on Friday, Dec 19, 2008 - 2:46 pm:
Just my two cents which aren't worth much for Western saddles since I ride bareback 98% of the time. I used to ride English but found bareback more comfortable for me and my horses. The problem with any saddle is that it fits women and men differently and different women differently, so you never can go by what someone else likes and then your horse has an opinion too. My only reservation with Western saddles with horns is that I know several people who have been severely injured by the horn when they fell. I guess it is like seat belts, most of the time they save lives but occasionally they cause a worse problem. I think you have to examine yourself, what type of riding you do and then absolutely try the saddle first on a long ride. Whatever style you choose, I would make sure that my weight was balanced on the horse and did not throw you back on your butt like so many I see riding Western. And saddles don't always help you to stay on. Once 4 years ago, my youngster was freaked out from a combination of things and frustrated and bucked better than any rodeo horse I have seen. After a huge buck, a four footed prong to the right and another straight up buck I was still on him bareback. If I had been in a saddle I would have gone right over his head the first time he bucked. My trainer has done that a few times when in a saddle. Anyway, he has never bucked before or since (except for happy little bucks) and I am grateful that I did not come off. If we could foresee the future, we could make the best choice, but with horses as we all know anything can happen, even with the best of horses.
Good luck on your quest to find what works for you. I have a friend who has tried at least 25 different saddles and she still likes her Abetta endurance saddle the best. (Another friend rode in it and said it was the most uncomfortable saddle she ever rode.) So there you have the dilemma.
Gail
|
Member:
chrism
|
Posted on Monday, Dec 22, 2008 - 5:51 pm:
The saddle and my horse seem to be working well together. We went for a 45 min. uneventful trail ride on Sunday and she seemed to do well with the saddle.
Here is a web site that seems to answer all my questions about fit, care, how-to's, etc.
https://www.western-saddle-guide.com/
Lots of photos and now I know how to correctly tie a cinch!
Thanks all for your advice.
|
|
|
