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Discussion on Neighbors dogs attack my horse while riding.
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Member:
lindas
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 - 5:17 pm:
I've read most of the other posts on this topic. Looks like I've been doing everything right by facing the dogs, walking toward them, etc., but I have run up against a new situation.
I am currently rehabilitating my 6 year old gelding from a suspensory ligament injury. He must walk ride for 45 minutes a day, not in the arena (too soft) This formerly calm,bomb proof horse is getting to be real nervous with all the stall rest. Add in the fact that it is now cold and usually windy, and he feels like bucking and galloping, and I have a tiger by the tail. I expect perhaps another 4 months of rehab. My vet has suggested that I use Acepromazine to lightly tranquilize him during riding and it helps a lot. Unfortunately, because of our location, the only place to ride is by the road, which is fine except for one neighbor's dogs. There are 4 dogs that the owners claim to be unable to confine. One large dog and three smaller ones. The big one creeps up behind the horse silently from the woods, then jumps out with a sudden, loud, booming bark only a few feet behind the horse. Most of the time neither the horse nor I see him until he explodes only a few feet away, even though I am looking for him. He is really sneaky. So now the horse is freaking out. Along come the other 3 dogs, who circle around so that there is no way we can face all of them, if we walk or charge one, the others get behind and bite at the horse's heels. This horse does not kick at anything, unfortunately, or this would no longer be a problem. They do not bother my daughter when she rides because her mare made solid hoof contact and chased and bit the dogs only one time. My gelding is just too sweet. To be honest my main concern is for safety. I do not want my horse to be hurt, and I absolutely cannot afford to get hurt myself. I am afraid he will throw me off, and if I break a bone it could put me out of work. I've tried putting small rocks in my pocket and throwing them at the dogs. No luck. I have been thinking about a squirt gun with vinegar. Or maybe even some pepper spray, but am afraid if the wind is blowing the wrong way it could irritate my horse's eyes. Actually I would love to use a pellet gun on the dogs, but wouldn't that look good in the papers? ("Local Vet Pellets Dogs") Since I was a kid I have faced down dogs on horseback and it has always worked, until now. Any ideas?
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 - 5:52 pm:
"Can't confine their dogs?" Why? If they can't, I bet animal control can!
If you don't want to go that route, is their a way your daughter's horse could go with you a few times? Maybe she could teach the gelding how to deal with the dogs. I love dogs, but your neighbor's dogs sound dangerous. They have learned a game that is fun for them, but is really going to get you or someone else hurt. I'll bet they do the same thing to people on bikes,too.
Have your tried a far-shooting water gun filled with ammonia? Or a small paint gun? Paint gun might work good if you can hit the dogs. It would really sting, and would be a pain for the owners to wash out. It might give them some incentive to figure out a way to keep the dogs confined.
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 - 6:14 pm:
Linda . . .
First, I suggest a rear-view mirror . . . lol . . . no, seriously, I think they make them for bikers and runners . . . and I think they attach to a cap.
Secondly, how is your horse with a bullwhip swinging around him? If he is desensitized re: whips, that might be an alternative, but my first action would be, as Sara suggests, talk to animal control. And I really would get one of those little mirrors . . . Forewarned is forearmed, and if you can see the dog coming, you can turn and face and walk toward him before he can get too close to you.
A circling pack of dogs sounds downright dangerous.
I wonder if you throw treats on the neighbor's yard whenever you ride by if that will change the dogs' attitudes (from one of "attack" to one of "expectation") and cause them to all stay on one side of your horse knowing the treats will end up there?? Not sure about that . . . Maybe some tranquilizer treats
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 - 6:57 pm:
Hey Holly, good idea...for a lot of circumstances. Now why didn't I think of that with a bike rider for a husband?
You can get those mirrors for $10 or $15 and all the bicycle shops and probably Walmart too.
Tranquilized laced treats sound good too. You could run over and toss them on the lawn about a half hour before your ride.
Hope your able to resolve this. I can't believe your neighbors seem so unsympathetic to your plight. Did it ever dawn on them they have a big liability issue and could face a huge lawsuit if either you or your horse were injured?
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 - 7:22 pm:
Linda I used to have the same situation on a road I used to ride on. One hiding dog and two other heel biters. Chasing didn't work on them either, too many of them.
First I will say since I knew the hiding dog was going to be coming out at us unexpectantly..I was nervous. I notice you said you start looking for him to pop out at you.
Here's what worked for me and Hank and Hank is not a laid back horse He would start prancing and start getting literally out of control.
I decided to make MY mind relax, I blanked out that there were dogs going to attack us. When we got to the dog spot and we got attacked I just kept going forward ignoring the dogs (they didn't exist) I noticed a change in Hank immediately and after the next few times Hank was very relaxed and the dogs pretty much lost interest.
From meter reading experience I would not give those type of dogs a treat, more often then not it makes them worse and they will follow you more and longer. The mace type spray will make them meaner often too. Ignoring a strange dog and not making any type of eye contact works for us.
Animal control was going to be my next step, but it wasn't necessary.
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Member:
stevens
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 - 9:27 pm:
Having gone through tendon rehab, I have absolutely no mercy for such inconsiderate yahoos; call animal control.
Definitely would not feed the dogs, you'd only be rewarding their behavior.
Could you possibly ride out with the mare who has already trained the dogs?
In the past I've had good luck chasing the dogs and swinging at them with a crop; think polo.
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Member:
pattyb
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 - 9:50 pm:
I'm a big fan of Animal Control, I help them all the time when they get calls about loose horses in my neck of the woods. Even in areas without a leash law, there's still a reasonable responsibility if they can cause harm to others. If you just ask them for advice, they can talk with the owner.
Good luck, I'll be watching for updates.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 - 10:24 pm:
Why is it the dogs are smarter than their owners at times? We had problems with a neighbor who always walked with her dogs, she couldn't be bothered with a leash as it interferred with her "striding" puke gag here. Even after an episode with 3 of her dogs going after one of our horses while my daughter was riding her, she still continued to walk with the dogs.
What stopped the problem? She met us walking our dogs one day, and after finding she could NOT hold on to her dog, (Good thing she only had one with that day) and seeing my husbands pistol by his side, she never walked by again with dogs running freely!
I vote for calling animal control also, and if that don't work, and you don't have a concealed weapons permit, carry a bb gun at least. I've used that on another neighbors dog who kept coming over and raising kane.
Good luck, and please be careful! Most horse will tolerate dogs they know, but not a pack attacking!
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Member:
imogen
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 - 3:23 am:
Eek! Americans and guns. (sorry Angie I shouldn't have said that but if they were allowed here there'd be no-one left in the country in 10 years time!)
Anyway, good suggestions Linda. Dogs run loose everywhere here so we always have this problem and most horses do get used to it though I wouldn't fancy the stall rest bit. Have you already tried shouting at them loudly to give them a surprise? I find "GO HOME!" good from my former postal experience but you may want to check it doesn't freak the horse out first.
I also recommend at least a long dressage cane that you can lean down and hit them with - one strike will do it with most dogs, you wont' have to hit them again. Is the horse in general desensitised to dogs generally by them running around the yard etc or does it react to all dogs now?
Good luck, and I also agree with Diane, ignoring works too. Remember to think alpha mare and instill confidence in the horse, your herd-inferior. Easy to say, hard to do when the horse is spinning under you and you are trying not to fall off...
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 - 7:42 am:
Imogen,
Didn't mean to come across as a bunch of gun toting, shoot anything that moves bunch of Americans, lol! And I should have specified I'd only do that as a last resort! Of course talking to the owners, explaining the situation, calling animal control all come first. But, as I found, when the owners don't "get it", then take matters in your own hands.
I'd personally never shoot anything at a dog other than a bb gun, or paint ball gun!
I've usually had luck with a stern "go home" myself, and when that didn't work, a shot with my bb pistol. After the first time, the sound of the bb rolling in the gun got the dogs attention!
Of course, whatever method one uses, make sure the horse is used to the noise first. Even a bb gun makes a startling noise.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 - 9:19 am:
If a serious discussion with the dog owners does not get results you should call the Sheriff's department which is usually associated with animal control. We have had good discussions about firing a gun from horseback and a search should turn them up.
DrO
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 - 9:49 am:
Linda - you brought up what is pet peeve of horseback riders in my neighborhood. We actually have a leash law, but some people do not pay attention to it. And coming out from the bushes or trees without warning is the worst.
I have nothing to add to the suggestions above - just sympathy for your situation.
Lilo
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 - 10:48 am:
I like the whip idea, but not for the d, oh never mind.
I have used a paint ball gun on stray dogs in my yard.
Perhaps you could find a long willow branch or stock whip and give chase to the dogs.
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Member:
lindas
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 - 1:22 pm:
Wow! Lots of good ideas there. I agree that treats would reward bad behavior. Around here animal control is a joke. Don't know if they would give me any help or not, since they are pretty well swamped with limited staff they can only really cover the city limits. We are 14 miles from town. Riding with my daughter's horse has not worked, they ignore her and go after Reno. Anyway, she is about to DrOp a foal and has outgrown her saddle girth so we are not riding her much. Shouting has not helped, believe me, even with the "colorful" language I have been using! I think the bullwhip idea might be helpful, as my horse is trained for roping and cattle sorting he may not have a problem with it or the shouting. He actually likes chasing the dogs, probably since he is cow bred and trained, but cows don't usually attack from behind while you are sorting them. However after all the stall rest I'm finding that he is scared of many things that have never bothered him before.
The mirror idea is great! I used to have one on my bike helmet for negotiating Athens traffic while I was at the University of Georgia. I had forgotten about it. It would also be nice to watch for cars coming up too fast and other hazards from behind.
As for getting these neighbors to put their dogs up...I doubt that will happen. The big dog needs to be neutered, but that's not going to happen either as I doubt they have the money. Part of our road is a right of way that runs through their property. They are within their rights to allow their dogs to run on that property. My son says the dogs come after him when he runs, he actually drives into town to do his track workouts now. One of the biggest problems is that there is a little 10 year old girl and she loves horses. When she sees me riding she runs out to meet me and the dogs usually follow. I've asked her to stay inside (and her grandmother to keep her in) when I ride to keep the dogs away, to no avail. The dogs don't come in the house, so I can't tell her to leave them inside. They are the worst when she is there, I think they are protecting her.
I guess perhaps it is time to just be courageous and set a good example for my horse. I'll work on my "velcro butt" so I can stay on Reno's back. Maybe I can borrow one of those air soft pistols from a friend.
I guess we are fortunate that these dogs and others in the neighborhood do not roam into my pasture. I have seen coyotes bother stock around here but not domestic dogs. I don't feel comfortable shooting anything, mainly because there are so many neighbors. Most people have 10 acres or less, which leads to a lot of homes and activity. That would be dangerous and a potential liability.
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Member:
pattyb
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 - 4:02 pm:
"Shouting has not helped, believe me, even with the "colorful" language I have been using!"
Linda.....I have a whole nuther language when it comes to my neighbor's dogs...and illegal fireworks. Animal Control and the Sheriff's department have been Godsends for me but I have to admit, my neighbors didn't seem to care at all until they were informed of their liabilities if there were injuries or property damage as a result of either. I do a radio schpeal with a DJ friend of mine every year for 4th of July. Funny how some people find a conscience when you mention their pocketbook or wallet.
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 - 11:20 pm:
When I was a kid, I would turn my horse to face the dog and if the dog was agressive and came closer I would charge the dog and chase it. Screaming like a banshee at it..Im gunna run you over you little @#%$&^! They always ran away freaked out. And that usually did the trick.
It worked everytime for me...probably cuz they knew I meant it <sigh> Yea we had some dogs around that if giving a chance would just torment you....I got sick of it!
Cheers<grin>
leslie
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Friday, Jan 16, 2009 - 7:28 am:
Trouble is, when you're rehabbing you can't spin your horse around and really go for the dogs, because you're always anxious to avoid that one ugly misstep which is just waiting to put you back to square one ....
We have a lot of aggressive dogs on the loose in our area too, and I've also been in the "suspensory walking" mode too, so I definitely sympathise.
And of course horses don't understand that the uptight feeling they're getting from you is due to your worry that THEY may get hurt, and not that you assess the marauding dogs as a huge danger in themselves. Vicious circle.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Jan 16, 2009 - 12:24 pm:
Leslie,
My oldest mare will charge dogs, cats, and any other critter she don't like. Her neck goes snaking out, and the front hoofs start pawing; it's really ugly to watch! She's learned not to do that when someone is riding her, but I bet if I loaned her to Linda she'd think it was great fun to chase dogs home with someone on her back encouraging her!
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Friday, Jan 16, 2009 - 12:43 pm:
Heheheheh angie
Sorry Linda I missed the rehabbing part (sleep deprived)
hmmmm how about a squirt blaster with tabasco water in it.
Gosh I sound anti-dog...Im not, I love them ----just not when chasing and aggravating my horse.
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Friday, Jan 16, 2009 - 7:14 pm:
I hate to see anyone take out on the dogs what should be reserved for the owners! Can you shoot them (the owners) with the paint balls?
Seriously, If you don't get any satisfaction with Animal Control, call the cops. I don't know any place that tolerates aggressive or biting dogs.
This sounds very serious.
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Member:
amara
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Posted on Friday, Jan 16, 2009 - 10:04 pm:
Hi Linda,
The laws get a bit iffy on people's private property and a "dangerous" dog, but the right of way givs you a bit of leeway there i should think. You have a right to be safe on roads, including a right of way. Of course, different states have different laws, and i am most familiar with texas laws.
Call Animal Control. If it is run by the county then they will be able to tell you what the state laws are, and whether or not they can help you by at the very least talking with the owners. If it is city only then they will obviously be outside of their jurisdiction, but can probably offer you some advice. The fact that your son will no longer run on the right of way is a bit disturbing, leading more towards these dogs being "dangerous".
As far as your initial idea of using pepper spray, if you can find the right kinds, its a pretty good idea, depending on the type of dog. Pepper spray works best on small to medium type dogs that are not aggressive. We havent had much luck with it on larger breeds like Rotties or Dobies that are being aggressive. They are so into the fight that they dont feel the burn. I hate to say it, but in those instances we will go straight for deadly force if we feel like an attack is imminent.
There are various types of pepper spray. You will want one with a stream action. Since you will be spraying down towards the dog, even if the wind is wrong while there may be some blowback onto a part of the horse that is in line with the stream - shoulder, etc.. There are some pepper sprays that come out as a fog, and these are the kinds you DONT want. They just make a big mist in front of you, and the wind will blow it whereever, and if the bad guy/dog doesnt run into it, but instead goes around it, you have a problem (as we learned the hard way when we got new pepper spray and no one told us it was fog, not stream...*sigh*). There are various strengths and bases. Obviously as a LEO i prefer the strongest stuff, and we prefer the water based so no possible interaction if Taser ends up being used.
If your horse can tolerate gunfire, you are within your rights to shoot any animal that threatens you, and it does sound like you are being threatened. Doesnt matter if you're a vet!
Good luck
Mel
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Member:
pattyb
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Posted on Friday, Jan 16, 2009 - 11:14 pm:
Hay, I just remembered an angle I used when speaking with my local commonwealth attorney about the fireworks issue I was having....and this may apply here as well: Where I live, fireworks are illegal and I politely reminded him that the county would not be in a very good position if they knowingly ignored a dangerous situation and someone were injured or killed. I think the word is liability? He saw my point and realized I was not kidding...........
With that in mind, you do have the right to pass without being injured, right of way or not. If you complain and/or take video in the process, they are then put in a position that if they ignor your plea and you are injured, they have a serious liability problem....and they know it...or at least your county attorney knows it.
Good luck!
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 17, 2009 - 10:28 am:
Along the same lines Patty is thinking; our neighbor who walked with the dogs, also had cattle across the road from us. Time and time again the gate would be left open, or the fence broke down, and we'd shoo the cattle back in. So when the bull was in there, the neighbor, also my husbands first cousin, would warn us that he was in with the cattle. (When Uncle and Aunt were alive, we were always encouraged to use the trail through the pasture to go to the river, and we would walk, bike, ride horses on the land)
After hubby and cousin got in a heated argument over the dog problem, the cattle running over our land, (this was after a new horse we bought ran over their "soft" hayfield; a pure accident! And cousin blew up over the "damage")he pointed out that if someone got bite by the dogs, while not on their property, or IF an accident was caused by their dang cattle being on the road (It's a blind corner coming from the north, and the cows would just BE THERE suddenly, and it would be hard to stop as people drive waaay to fast on our corner)they would be held liable!
Funny, after that discussion the cattle got moved, and new fence put up away from the road.
Of course there's still the story about the letter from the lawyer concerning boundary lines; but that's a whole 'nother story and don't apply here!
Sufficient to say, when dealing with morons, sometimes you just have to do whatever it takes to get your point across! And hope the while you are talking to these deaf people, nothing serious happens.
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Member:
lindas
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 17, 2009 - 10:45 am:
Sorry everybody, I had to step away from our conversation for a day or two, got busy.
Yes, the suspensory ligament injury limits what I can do with Reno at this time. I think he would enjoy chasing the dogs because he loves chasing cows! I want him better. He had to have shock wave treatment and I have spent a couple thousand or more on him, don't want to screw anything up.
It's funny, but these dogs do not bother me when I go out for a walk. My daughter goes out to run and to go and visit her friend and they don't bother her. They don't like my son...at 17 he is pretty well full grown and I guess they see him as a possible threat. My husband does not walk out that way much so I don't know about him. They seem to reserve their aggression for my poor horse!
I am going to buy some of that pepper spray that comes out as a stream. If I can get a couple of the dogs to back off then one of them should be easy to take on.
Threatening to sue or anything probably would not work, these people are pretty poor. And they are really nice people too, they just are mountain people whose culture is that dogs always run loose. The sneaky male with the booming bark keeps slipping his collar and jumps over a fence to go looking for females. We don't live too far from a highway. I feel guilty but sometimes I wish he would have an intimate encounter with a tractor-trailer while he is out courting.
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Member:
lindas
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 17, 2009 - 11:34 am:
Maybe I should offer them a free neuter for their aggressive male. Hmmm. That might be worth it because it might settle him down. I doubt he has even had a rabies shot, so I could get that in him too. Probably has heartworms and everything else, poor dog! But he is well fed and, by minimal standards, cared for, so a cruelty complaint would not stick.
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Member:
lindas
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 17, 2009 - 11:01 pm:
I just thought of something else. A friend of mine is second in command at the sheriff's department. He is also head of their canine corps and patrols out here a lot. He keeps an eye on our place, and knows a lot of the local residents. I don't really want to get too aggressive with calling the law. While this particular family is very nice, they have cousins living near by that might burn your barn, poison your dogs, shoot your horses, etc., if you tick them off. And in the ways of mountain folks if you threaten their relatives they take it personally! I'll ask my friend what he thinks, maybe he can help.
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Member:
pattyb
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 18, 2009 - 12:37 pm:
Linda, I can sooooo relate to your hesitate when dealing with morons....so please allow me to share a story with you:
Over the years, I have had more than my fair share of city morons who move out here and A. turn loose their rottweilers B. go buy a shotgun and C. they go out of state to buy illegal fireworks.
One of the above families did just that with their akita and cocker spaniel until one day, I looked out the kitchen window to see the cocker trying to pull the catheter out of Banner's neck...argument #one ensued. Shortly after, the 4th of July airborne fireworks showed up. We went round and round every year about the fireworks, especially the year Banner had a trach tube in her throat and they spooked her.
A few years later, a nitwit moved into a house in the woods behind me and here came their rottweiler. One day, the rotti was shot and made it's way home. The moron with the fireworks told the nitwit that we did it....which we didn't. It turned out to be the cop across the street (from the moron) when the rotti was chasing his breeding stallion, then turned on him when he tried to chase it away. This all happened in late fall that year.
Come spring time, as we were getting the pool ready, we found a bullet in it. By the angle it was lodged, it had come from the direction of the woods behind us. In order for that bullet to make it's way to the pool (just 15 feet from my kitchen), it had to travel across the pasture, across the back yard and dang it....that bullet also traveled right thru the paddock where the horses are most of the time. And all of this was because we were falsely accused of shooting their dog.
In order for these nitwits to get to their property, we also were terrorized by their reckless driving on a right of way easement on our property. It was actually in an argument over that when we found out that we had....shot their dog. Grrrrrr.
As the arguments escalated, one of my best neighbors stepped in and called me...fortunately. She told me the nit wits were being investigated for child abuse and that the woman was not playing with a full deck. She was cautioning me because she did not trust what they might do if I slammed them hard over the bullet and right-of-way. Once I knew I was dealing with some real lunatics, I had no choice but to back off out of fear someone would show up dead one morning.
I am glad to say, about a year later, they moved back to Colorado where they had come from. The moment they pulled out, I was actually outside feeding and wanted to do cartwheels...but I didn't, you just never know with people like that.
As a side note....lolol.......the moron with the fireworks who actually told them it was us that shot their dog----> a few years later, his teenage son was pulled over one day by the cops. I don't know what the conversation was but he told them his dad was selling pot and kept it in a safe in the house. That explained why one day the entire drug task force raided his house and took him out in handcuffs. Bwaaaa haaa haa......proof that what goes around, comes around. I haven't had a bit of problems from them since. And this used to be such a nice neighborhood.......
I still have issues with another neighbor's dogs that come here to kill chickens...and her horses come here at night when they get out, tripping the alarm by my barn. I've gone more than one round with her as well.................
Sigh, country living used to be soooo much simpler.
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Member:
lindas
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 18, 2009 - 10:55 pm:
Patty, that is some story! Yes, you have to really watch it sometimes. I live on a road going back into a mountain pass that used to be owned by all the members of one family. They all owned their own property, and as each generation grew up and built their homes on progressively smaller acreage it got more crowded. About 12 years ago, our home was sold to "outsiders" from New York, who retired here. The entire family actually voted on whether the property would be allowed to be sold to non-family members. Then we bought the property 5 years ago, and there have been a few more newcomers and now it is no longer an issue. I like most of my neighbors, including the ones who own the dogs, but some have major screws loose. Moonshining, pot growing, meth labs and who knows what else goes on back in the mountain pass where there are few residents. One guy actually shot his own niece's horse point blank because the horse got in his garden...in December! Never mind that the niece's husband had the horse on a lead rope leading him home and there were children playing in the shed behind the horse. (by the way, he is one of the cousins I was talking about) This same man held a gun on one of my children who was helping another neighbor repair the hole this nut dug in the neighbor's driveway...claimed the driveway went across his property and they were trespassing. The sheriff's department could not even control him, he kept getting out of jail, so I really doubt they will be able to do much about dogs barking at a horse. Thank God this nut's wife finally kicked him out and he moved away. He did keep the local stray dog population down, though. Some of the other relatives are almost that nutty. Actually, we like living here. It is mostly peaceful and very beautiful. I just have a wimpy horse (and a wimpy rider who is not as sure as she once was in the saddle)!
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 5:56 pm:
YIKES, neighbor disputes could be a whole 'nuther thread I think.
I don't have much to add to the dog problem (though I like the stock whip and/or squirt gun filled with something unpleasant .. strong cheap perfume or listerine might work as well as hot sauce and not clog your squirt gun).
I just had to post to say it makes me feel a little better to know I'm not the only one with neighbor disputes. Our neighbors have hated us from day 1 simply because they didn't want anyone to every buy the lot next to them. Had lived there for 6 months before we bought ours and you'd think they had lived there for generations the way they act like our existence is a major imposition. And to think I was so excited because I thought 'they're horse people, how bad can they be...'! Doesn't help that our driveway is on an easement on their property. (We have an easement on ours for another lot's driveway .. I can't imagine begrudging those neighbors their use of it)
Anyway hearing your troubles makes me feel a little better  (Does that make me a bad person?!)
Good luck with the hounds from hell!
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Member:
chip
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 6:42 pm:
Wow - neighbor issues big time. I've no advice on that, but a word of caution on the pepper spray. Others may be more correct as I've little exp. with this, but I'm sharing this just in case it helps.
My neighbor has a lovely yellow lab (female) that I've lived next to for years. She stays in her yard (electric fence) but I go over to pet her. About a yr ago I got married and my husband moved in. I noticed the dog would bark sort of protecting her home type of bark when we were out in the garden and I would call to her, to tell her - he's OK. He's safe to be here, and she would seem to accept that.
Then one day we were walking past their driveway and she was out and I went to say hi and she was OK with me, but was hugely concerned (and seemed aggressive) toward my husband - much more so than previously. The boy that lives there came out to see what the ruckus was about and said that she had been pepper sprayed by a delivery man - and since then hated men who looked like my husband (tall and thin) and since he was still dressed in his work clothes (brown coat) he really did look like a delivery guy.
So... long story just to say that this gentle dog I've know for years and who still accepted me, was aggressive toward my husband (thank goodness for the invisi}ble fence). My point is that if you decide to use the spray, be very VERY careful the next time you venture down the road as the dogs may be very, very ugly to you and the horse.
Good luck - and keep safe.
MaryS
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Member:
chip
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 6:49 pm:
Another thought in a different direction.
Take a normal ride down the road. Ask someone else to be in a good spot to catch the action on video. If possible, do it on different days so you can demonstrate a pattern of behavior. Do it with your reasonalbe attempts to chase off the dogs. After the ride, get yourself on the video explaining what happended, what you did, and how unsafe you felt. Do this also for your son (if he is willing to walk/jog down the road).
Then post the video no YouTube. (I don't know legal stuff, but I would think video taken on a public right of way should be ok - you can check more on that to be sure). Of course, no video of their house or any persons who live there.
Then e-mail the animal control people (or others you want to help you) so that can really see what is going on. A picture is worth a thousand words on getting action.
Just an idea.
Even if you don't post it, maybe viewing it on video with other trainers or dog people will help you to come upon the best practices for dealing with these dogs in this setting.
MaryS
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Member:
pattyb
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Posted on Monday, Jan 19, 2009 - 8:31 pm:
Wow, the things I missed while working today.
Mary.....I really like your video idea. I was getting ready to do that with our easement problems when my other neighbor stepped in to advise me. But in this case, I think showing the video to Animal Control is an excellent idea. If that doesn't work, the trainer is also a super idea.
Have my fingers crossed Linda.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 20, 2009 - 7:50 am:
When our neighbor used to walk with her dogs, (2-3 at a time running loose) we took pictures of the dogs coming into the yard. Didn't care if she saw us snapping away or not, let her wonder why we want pictures!
Last night, our chocolate lab decided to go play with the neighbors dog, at 10:00! I was in bed already, so our son DrOve down there and chased him home. His dog comes over here to play too, and that kind of stuff don't bother either one of us. Although if ours doesn't come with called, I head down with a horse whip in hand!
Wow, our neighbors are mild compared to some of the folks you all deal with!
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Member:
lindas
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 20, 2009 - 6:01 pm:
I never had problems with my neighbors or their dogs when we lived in the suburbs! Well, one night somebody's Jack Russell Terrorist got loose and chased my cat up a tree! But the dog had gotten out by accident,the neighbors apologized, and the cat wasn't hurt, although it took him two days to come down! I had to move out to the country to find the real crazy neighbors. But then we had wierdos living nearby in the country when I was a kid, although it was less crowded then.
You all have had lots of good ideas on the dog problem. Yes, pepper spray is risky, but I would think squirt guns with unpleasant stuff, BB guns, and other weapons might elicit the same response. Some dogs might actually become more aggressive. Also, I have treated a few dogs with corneal ulcers due to noxious sprays, presumably pepper or ammonia. I just hate to hurt a dog, I can't help it! Something to do with my vocation, I think.
The past few days the dogs have not been out. Thank goodness because it has been really cold and snowy, and Reno has been extremely frisky even with the ace. Thought he might get rid of me today, but he remained under control and was a good boy. His muscles felt tight and ready to explode, and the collected prancing reminded me of some dressage routines...not bad for a cow horse!
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 20, 2009 - 6:35 pm:
Way to stick Linda! I have seen many a cow horse perform beautiful piaffe or even levade when they are ready to go!
I also hate the idea of hurting a dog (or any animal for that matter) but your and your horse's safety have to come first. As one of our neighbors said, 'in the country if you don't keep your dog at home it's liable to get shot'. The dogs and their owners are lucky to have you for a neighbor
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Member:
heidim
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 20, 2009 - 11:16 pm:
Here are two new solutions to try. For solution #1, ride with a friend who rides a mule. The donkey half of the mule will instinctively send a strong message to the dogs that equines are off limits. For solution #2, invest in and carry with you a $50 anti-bark device found in many farm stores. Mine is disguised to look like a small birdhouse, and so is easy to carry. Whenever a dog barks, the device emits a safe but irritating sound that only dogs can hear. It makes them stop barking instantly and should in time teach them to steer clear of horses all together. The device will not bother horses. I also suggest billing this neighbor for the purchase of the device and also for your training services, as they appear unable or unwilling to take responsibility at their end. A dog in the street is a liability to itself, and you will be doing both canine and owner a favor.
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 - 9:51 am:
Heidi
I love the idea about the anti dog bark device...what a great non-confrontation idea!
Have you tested it around horses? JIC.?
LeslieC
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Member:
amara
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 - 10:09 am:
Linda,
i've never heard of pepper spray causing any eye problems in people, and I know we use it extensively, in much greater amounts! Are dog and human eyes that much different that what only causes irritation and lasts for about 40 minutes or so, would cause a corneal ulcer in a dog? And mind you, some people have gotten pepper sprayed repeatedly in their "career" (*LOL*). Am just curious, though I know I've occasionally had to pepper spray dogs for my safety and I have no qualms about doing it, or continuing to do it, as the other option for me would be for it to either attack, or for me to shoot it.
Mel
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Member:
heidim
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 - 10:20 am:
Hi Leslie. I use the anti-barking device for my own dog, as he is housed right next to my horses. In fact, I even started a discussion thread on it a week or two ago, asking if this would be a problem for the horses. Dr. O says there is little data available about the impact of such signals on horses, but it doesn't appear to bother my horses since installed and another member said their experience was the same. As with any new idea, it's always a good idea to do a test run. You can do so by "barking" into it while standing beside a horse. If the horse is okay with the sounds emitted (humans can't hear them at all), the device could be tied to the saddle or attached to a buggy or cart. I added the latter, as some of my driving friends say dogs are a problem for them, too.
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Member:
heidim
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 - 4:20 pm:
Just looked at the anti-bark device and noticed a caution statement on the back. It said something to the effect that to keep from damaging the human ear, people need to keep within an arm's distance of the device whenever a dog is barking. Dr. O, does that mean it could potentially hurt a horse's ears if attached to a saddle?
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Member:
lindas
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 - 10:42 pm:
Melissa,
I think the dogs in question were hit at close range. In which case the ulcer would have probably been due to physical force of a blast of liquid rather than chemical. I don't know for sure.
The anti bark device is intriguing. I'm going to see if I can find one.
I wouldn't think it would be close enough to hurt the horse's ears if tied to a saddle, especially to the rings on the rear of the saddle. Unless it's a pony that is surely arm's length.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 22, 2009 - 6:18 am:
If you go the pepper spray route I recommend you buy 3 the first time. One to practice on the ground, particularly getting a feel for range, aim, blow back, and how long it will spray. One for practicing from horseback, and the last to use in case of an emergency. Most of these items are dated so as yours goes out of date refresh what you have learned with the old one and replace with new one.
DrO
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Member:
pattyb
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 22, 2009 - 11:11 am:
And ummmm Linda.....whatever you do....don't have one in your purse if you need to go to the airport.
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Member:
reubenr
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 1, 2013 - 5:58 pm:
There is an electronic device which repels dogs. You can buy it at Amazon and it's not expensive. Get the souped up version because of the distance from you to the dogs. It's ultrasonic and works! Good luck.
Rube
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