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Discussion on Need new Reining Saddle
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 23, 2009 - 8:38 am:
I've been reading and reading online about western saddle fitting, making, types, etc. and I'm more informed; however, now I need input from western folks who have purchased a new saddle! I have never bought a new saddle. I have always bought the saddle with the horse figuring that would be the safest route for me fitting the horse properly. (I haven't bought too many horses...but I've always bought from reliable breeder/trainers who have had great concern for the horses they sell.)
So, does anyone have advice?
From what I've seen online, I like the Martin Reiner. And I like some of the Ladies Crates Reiners. (I read somewhere that Reinsman bought out Crates, is that true?) I would like a quality leather saddle, but I don't want to throw $ away thinking I'm getting quality when really I'm not. And, I may not always know what I'm buying...paying a stiff price doesn't guarantee quality... And the tack stores in my state don't carry much inventory so I'm buying blind for the most part.
There is a expo/trade show in Minnesota this weekend which is a "purty far" drive from Indiana, BUT the vendors are not listed on the expo website, so I don't know who will have a booths there... arg. I emailed the contacts for the expo asking about a vendor list, but no one replied. The Equine Affaire in Ohio had a vendor list, but I was in DC that weekend. Dang it. Hmmm. Think I'll call the 800 #s for some of the saddle makers and see if they are going...
Anybody rein? Seems like most folks are English or trail here...
Thanks to all for any help for this ignorant, but eager to do the right fit person!
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 23, 2009 - 10:32 am:
I have a reining saddle now, but due to shoulder issues (mine) I need something lighter. I looked at and sat in the Crates Lady Reiner, and it is comfy and a bit lighter than mine. But the saddle was too narrow for my horse. I need full quarter horse bars. Big difference in the way the Lady reiner felt to sit in as opposed to the regular version. I'll be following your search as I'm on the hunt as well. Good luck!
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 23, 2009 - 1:22 pm:
Julie, what brand of reiner do you currently have?
Are you going to try to find one used, buy a new standard made, or have one custom made? There is no "standard" for measurements of RQHB, SQHB, or FQHB--perhaps you already know that, so I apologize if I offended you; I'm new at the saddle shopping so I have started from the fundamentals in my research.
My mare requires a FQHB as she is pretty stocky. Her back is fairly short. I need a nice flare on the tree for her comfort, but it's tough when there is no "standard" among saddle makers for measurements for the different tree pieces...and tough when I don't have a saddle fitting expert in my back yard...
I called Martin Saddlery direct. There is no one in my state who has Martin and of course no one has much inventory anyway...so I was hard pressed to find one to sit in, let alone put on my horse. The Martin customer service rep at the "factory" at the 800 # is shipping me a standard made Reiner model to try for no cost. If it doesn't fit the horse and/or me, I can ship it back. Shouldn't cost me more than forty bucks to ship it back and I'd certainly spend that driving 4+ hours to Illinois to find one to sit in! I love the internet.
The Martin Reiner weighs 32# which might be more than what you are looking for with your shoulder. I'd probably do better to have a light one myself.
I'm curious what you meant by the "big difference in the way the Lady Crate Reiner felt to sit in as opposed to the regular version." Difference in the seat width at the crotch? Padding in the seat at the crotch?
Martin doesn't sell direct like most of the saddle makers, but since no one in my state has any AND they happened to have a saddle that was sent back from the distributor, the service rep is shipping it to me to try. Normally it is a 14 week wait to have a saddle made according to the rep. So it would be nice if this saddle fits... I asked why the saddle was sent back and he said it wasn't a quality issue, it was sent back because the tack shop did not have any customer interest in the saddle. (which in this economy and with the retail price of the saddle, I could certainly understand...two tack shops in my state closed their doors this year already.) The rep indicated he could make a deal on this particular saddle, so we'll see.
I think I'll look up the Crate website again and call. Seems like I remember they could custom make a FQHB but perhaps their standard made was a SQHB? Hmmm. Hard to tell when all measurements are different. Just need the saddle to put on the horse to tell that's for sure. Maybe I'll get lucky and they'll ship me one also!!!
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 23, 2009 - 3:33 pm:
The lady reiner has what they call a "narrow twist"--it's just narrower in the crotch area. I liked it. Crates builds them on an "equifit" tree which does have the flared bars at the front. My horse has "mutton" withers, so needs a wider tree. I wish he could use their equifit tree, because the saddle shop had someone bring in one on consignment while I was there and I took it home to try. The saddle was like new! It didn't even have a mark where the cinch had gone--I don't think it ever had anyone ride in it--and the consignee only wanted $900.00. It was about a $1600.00 saddle. Can you use a 16 inch seat? If you have a chance to try one and like it, for that price you could afford the shipping. It was the regular seat, not the narrow twist. I know a lot of people with Crates saddles and they like them a lot. Mine is a Bar M. I like everything about it except the weight and I could use a smaller seat--it's a 16 inch. Fits my horse too! I should have had shoulder surgery years ago, but who'd do chores while I recovered?
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 23, 2009 - 4:46 pm:
Is it impossible to make a FQHB with a narrow twist? Maybe I need to have a skinnier built horse! Judging by the seat size charts I have seen, 125+ females need a 16" seat although I'm sure there are a zillion variations depending upon the slope of the seat, hip width of the rider, etc. I used a 15 when I was younger, but those days are long gone... I'm almost 50 and have, ahem, an ample posterior. A 16" is what I need. And I have more thigh than what I'd like, so a narrower twist would be helpful.
I saw online that the Crates had a flare on the ends of the bars. Hmmm. Sounds tempting! Great price.
Maybe you should have someone pad the seat if the saddle fits your horse...but that wouldn't do much good with the weight factor.
I should have the Martin sometime next Tuesday. We'll see!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 23, 2009 - 6:05 pm:
Vicki I don't rein, but do have a friend that did, she had a wide horse at the shoulder and short backed...She actually bought an arabian reiner and she LOVED it..I can't remember the brand anymore tho...Probably Circle Y because she likes Circle Y saddles, Actually now that I think about it it was a circle Y. She was not a "small" lady...but not fat, so to speak. She said she got an arabian saddle because the skirts are usually shorter and the shoulders wider, for "arabian action" It was a VERY nice comfortable saddle and it fit her horse beautifully.
Just thought I'd throw that out there so you have something else to ponder
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Member:
lindas
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 23, 2009 - 7:33 pm:
Some of the catalogs have a "try before you buy" option. I was looking at one last night, as I am on the hunt for a trail saddle for a short backed, wide shouldered horse. Now I can't find the catalog or remember which one it was!!! (sorry) If I find it I will write back in and let you know. It does cost a little more because you get to keep the trial saddle for a week or so, then pay to ship it back. But it beats buying sight unseen a brand new saddle, then trying not to get any dirt on it while you check the fit.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Friday, Apr 24, 2009 - 8:38 am:
Good suggestions ladies. I saw some Arabian Reiners in my searching, but it never occurred to me (duh) that might be what I need. Guess I dismissed it subconsciously when I saw the word "Arabian." rookie...
If the FQHB Martin doesn't fit, Arabian may be the next option to try!
I am justing getting started having this "serious hobby" and while it's fun to shop for all of the barn, fencing, fans, tack, etc., it is a jolt to the pocketbook! One tricky method worked, at least on the barn, was to push the "This barn can be an experiment with various materials perhaps useful in your business...honey... darling husband"...! Don't know how much longer that line will work. The barn raising took on a life of its own after my husband "got serious". He loves a challenge and we are the champs of recycle whenever possible. I read somewhere on this site where somebody used another method successfully that involved low lights, music, wine, and perhaps lingerie? It would have to be VERY low light... ha ha.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Apr 24, 2009 - 11:23 am:
Schneider's has Arab saddles. I think that if you can find any saddle that is build on the old style trees and without the really wide skirts so many saddles have now you'll be happier. This is one reason the Arab style saddles are good. And, I totally agree with the narrow twist.
As to husbands and barns - remember he is getting older, too. If the wine doesn't work, try margaritas or old fashioneds!
I think Schneider's and Stateline both have "try before you buy" policies and are easy to deal with. If you take a wire coat hanger, or other bendable, stiff wire, and bend it over your horse's whithers down to the point right behind his shoulder, then again where a saddle should end on his back then measure with a measure tape the distance between the two, you can make cutouts of the shape of your horse's back out of manilla paper and take them with you saddle shopping. (I'm probably not explaining this very good; you can do a search and find a website to explain it better) But the cut outs are a great help. You can also sit in a saddle you like (any style) and measure it's width the same way.
I hate buying new saddles and new boots! Good luck.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Friday, Apr 24, 2009 - 12:22 pm:
horsesaddleshop.com has great info for folks like me. I downloaded a template but haven't cut it out of cardboard yet. I also bought a bendable plastic saddle measuring ruler. I think I'll probably need someone with more experience to help me measure so that I'm not in the wrong spots... I just received a schneider's catalog the other day. Haven't looked at it. Been mostly looking online thus far.
Sara, what do you consider "a really wide skirt"? The Martin Reiner has a 26-28" skirt depending on seat size. So I suspect the one I'm getting will be a 27" I doubt if it is a narrow twist. The only narrow twists I've seen thus far that arent' special order are the Crates Lady Reiners.
part of the trouble is that Indiana has very few tack shops and they have small inventories. so the try it and ship it back might be my best bet...beats the time, $, and driving 4+ hours to a tack shop out of state...
too bad husband doesn't really drink...I might be making more headway if he did...
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Member:
dsibley
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 25, 2009 - 7:37 am:
I hate to add another make to the mix here, but I bought a Brian Bell reining saddle last fall for my new 'hobby/passion'. I love it! I had been using my trainer's Billy Cook saddle, and that was fine, but the Brian Bell sits you down just a little better...keeps my butt in the seat for those stops!
Will you be going to the show in Cloverdale the end of May?
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 25, 2009 - 9:08 am:
D, I have seen the Brian Bell name in my searching, but haven't looked at any (online). I'll have to try it. I can make a federal case out of anything it seems (involving a horse related purchase). Maybe because it's so fun? Probably more like I want to get it right...
As for Cloverdale, if husband doesn't need me (planting time...) to ferry food to the fields, I'd like to slip away and watch Saturday's events at least. I would definitely be a spectator. When I say my "new hobby/passion", I mean EVERYTHING is pretty darn new to me--not just an interest in Reining.
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New Member:
lilcrow
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 25, 2009 - 10:37 am:
I'm so jealous. I wish I had a husband that I could manipulate into spending money on my horse passion. I'm not a reiner, but I was attracted to the discussion because I'm in the process of selling my McCall Northwest Wade saddle. It is the Lamborghini of the world of saddles, however it is not a reining saddle, and certainly not appropriate reining tack. I know that in the world of reining there are certain brands and styles of saddles that are "in" and if you don't follow the protocol, you're black-balled. Frankly, I'm surprised to hear you talking about showing your own horses. Usually, to get anywhere, it requires a professional trainer, so it takes real courage to get out there and show your own horse.
As far as this saddle goes, it took me a year and a half to pay it off, and it would be more appropriate in a ranch versatility or working cow horse class.
I hope I haven't offended anyone, I just wanted to brag on this saddle a little, even though it's not a reiner.
You can go to the Dry Fork Saddlery website and look at the Northwest Wade. You can also go to Brighton Saddlery and get a rough idea of the pricing on these saddles when you start adding custom changes. I added buckin' rolls and a rear cinch made by Kings in Sheridan, WY. that isn't listed on either one of these sites.
Hope I haven't disrupted the flow of the discussion.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 25, 2009 - 7:06 pm:
 Ho,ho,ha,ha...I'm not showing! I want to take lessons and have a trainer for myself/horse! I go to horse shows as a spectator to watch and learn. I wouldn't know what was "in" or "out"! I'm not trying to "get anywhere", just be better, have fun, stretch a bit, and enjoy my horse. You'll have to read my bio/story; you'll see I'm a rabid newbie whose biggest strength, alass...is enthusiasm!
I bought the current horse/saddle as a package almost a year ago; however, the saddle is a show/parade saddle. Lots of silver. My "everyday saddle" that I had and bought very used for $500 was a Crawley pleasure saddle with no back cinch...(long dead regional one man saddle shop) which fit the narrow chested ewe necked grade black tobiano gelding--who did have a lovely mane and tail and great color--I had eight years ago as a "backyard" horse here on the farm. He became a local young girl's 4-H Horse. I haven't had a saddle horse for five years. I need a good saddle that fits my new mare. Maybe more than one!
As for the my husband he has been good about the time, land, and $; however, I had some $ due to the passing of mom, gma, and dad during the past 36 months. So after making sure all of my obligations were taken care of for my kids, I had some inheritance $ to use as I saw fit. And now it's my turn--horses. So it wasn't all a sacrifice on our part; most of the $ was a parting gift from family.
Your saddle is beautiful! I'd be proud of it too if it was mine! ANd I didn't know McCall was a top notch brand. I'll have to google it! I google everything these days...words I don't know...breeds I've never heard of...etc.! Husband hasn't said too much about my excessive computer time yet, but it's coming...I think he has had about enough of my obsession the past 12 months. He said tonight, and not all that lovingly..., "You are like a little kid!"
Uh, what's a bucking roll? is it the wide band of leather behind the cantle? For what? To grab it the horse starts to buck?
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 25, 2009 - 8:01 pm:
Oh Vickie, I love you! It's so great to "meet" someone that is so enthusiastic and "in love" with horses; someone that it's all new to.(or mostly so) I wish you lived closer; I'd love to take you "under my wing." We'd have so much fun! (inspite of your political leanings! If I can help you in any way, let me know. You've joined a great group of people here; as you are finding out, there is a LOT of knowledge here. And, inspite of everyone's differences, we are all willing to share and learn from each other, and support each other when there are problems.
If you REALLY want to DrOol a lot and want a comfortable saddle that's custom made for you, check out www.Skyhorse.com They make the most beautiful. most comfortable saddles I've ever seen. On the other end of the scale, I've been very happy a an inexpensive Wintec for shorter rides(not all day or several days long.) They are very light weight, the horses seem to like them, and they are really easy to care for. I have an all purpose that is many years old and still going strong, and a newer western version. One nice thing is they have an adjustable gullet system so you can adjust them to comfortably fit different horses. BUT, you should have one good leather saddle, at least, imo. Finding the right one that fits both you and your horses is the trick, as you are finding out! Good luck.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 25, 2009 - 9:01 pm:
Sara,
I don't think that we know Vicki's political leanings as of yet unless I have missed something.
With two Vicki's who spell their name the same, things can become confusing.
But whatever Vicki thinks politically, I welcome her.
The other night I heard someone say about the right VS left thing: "We are wired differently" and that all we can do is try to be more open-minded and respect our differences and realize that both sides are just people with differing opinions.
I'm glad that we can embrace our love of horses. I ride with folks of all political persuasions, and it really doesn't matter on the ride.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 25, 2009 - 9:26 pm:
I think Sara confused us also V.Z. I have read the political thread, but didn't post. Thought since I'm new and no one really knows me yet, I should just keep my yap shut; however, it hasn't slowed me down on the other threads....!!! I think I write the longest posts ever.  Yak, yak! I have no one here to yammer to except the horses and dog.
And I think we're all wired differently. Except for that horse wire (haywire?)
Sara, I wish you were right next door. I sure would love to be under your wing! I am such the classic Eager Beaver Idiot right now! I have always loved horses. Love the smell of grass hay in the barn and all horse flesh! Just shove my face in their necks and inhale. Sick. I'm sick. I've always been envious of the folks whose life's work was with horses. What a great life!!!
My farrier and vet are both big talkers and I just listen and listen hoping to learn--even if it winds up costing me more $/time! Figure it's a cheap lesson ya know?
I'll definitely look up Skyhorse and McCall and check them out. I have to find someone locally who can really help me with the fit.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 25, 2009 - 11:23 pm:
The McCalls are super nice, but not what I'm looking for. (Not really sure what it is I'm looking for lol! But they appear to be more "working cowboy" styles--at least what little I know at this point!
Skyhorse is breathtakingly beautiful. I'm in love with the Ribbon Turquoise Saddle, one of the few instock...calling my name. I bet I own one someday, but right now, with my skills, I'd be embarrassed to own one. I haven't earned it.
I need to google Arizona Bars and Bowman Tree which were on the saddle. Don't know what either of those mean...although 6 5/8" gullet might be the right one for Diva Mare. If I'm measuring the TexTan Show Saddle that came with the horse, it's a 6 1/2" gullet.
I'm off to google...
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Member:
dsibley
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 25, 2009 - 11:56 pm:
As a 'newbie' to reining, I think I can add some insight into the sport. Yes, there are high-dollar trainers, who I would absolutely die to have one of my horses with. To watch these guys (and gals...haha!) is to watch absolute poetry in motion. But realistically, most of us can't afford to put that kind of money into a 'hobby'.
For me, I never intended to show. Ever. Nothing against it, just have other things to do with my money. But a guy came to board with me; we worked out a deal for some stalls in exchange for some training on one of my then 3-y/o's. And he helped me with another of my 3's. I knew nothing about reining, but started cooling out his mare that he had trained for several years. He had me start doing these amazing things with this horse. I 'dabble' in dressage...if I could ever get a horse trained to take some lessons on. I learned that reining and dressage are very similar: communication without resistance. OK, dressage folks really don't appreciate the sliding stop, but the reining fans don't like the piaffe, either! But it's the same basic concept. Working off the leg, communication, etc. I was hooked!
I entered a show last July; got 6th out of 17!!!! My second day, I zero'd out...durned horse couldn't count her spins. (it's never operator error!!) It was humbling, I tried not to let it bother me, but on my way out of the ring, one of the top trainers patted me on the back and welcomed me to the 'zero' club. Then I was OK.
After that experience, my husband, bless his heart, bought the horse for me. (NRHA rules allow you to ride someone else's horse in the Green Rider class...) I entered my second show last month, and took third place in one class. Yee-ha! I called my husband on the way home and told him I had won money. Before he got too excited, I told him I spent it at the McDonald's drive-thru....
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that, yes, to compete on the top levels, you probably need an extremely well-bred and top-trained horse. But on the other levels, you can compete with people of your same experience level. Reiners discourage a lot of 'bling' in the show ring, so the 10,000 saddles are probably out. As are the sequined shirts, etc etc etc. I ride in a shirt that cost less than 100.00 and my Brian Bell saddle with just a little silver. It's all about the horse and rider, and the pattern. I'm not knocking other disciplines because I really don't know much about them; I'm just giving reining some kudos...
Vicki, I'm planning to go to the Cloverdale show. You should look us up...or plan to show. It's really addictive. I mean, hey, you are talking to, like, a 16.00 money-earner. I should know, right???
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 12:04 am:
Both Vickies, sorry about that! I finally get Diane and Angie sorted out in my brain, and now there are two Vickies! What thread was it they were talking about an asylum for horse owners? I may be more ready than I thought!
Vickie Z., You have the right mind set when it comes to what is important - horses. I'm happy to agree to disagree. Like you, I have friends of all persuasions and we get along "just fine." I like that you care and are involved and stick up for what you think...guess that goes on the other thread.
Vickie Z. a good saddle can be a life long investment. I still ride in one my dad bought for me when I was 14, but I finally broke down a bought another which should last me the rest of my life and then some. So, it really pays to do all the research. Ride in and try out as many as possible. I'm glad you are considering your horse also; too many people think only of their own size then wonder why their horse acts up every time they get on it.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 12:04 am:
Both Vickies, sorry about that! I finally get Diane and Angie sorted out in my brain, and now there are two Vickies! What thread was it they were talking about an asylum for horse owners? I may be more ready than I thought!
Vickie Z., You have the right mind set when it comes to what is important - horses. I'm happy to agree to disagree. Like you, I have friends of all persuasions and we get along "just fine." I like that you care and are involved and stick up for what you think...guess that goes on the other thread.
Vickie Z. a good saddle can be a life long investment. I still ride in one my dad bought for me when I was 14, but I finally broke down a bought another which should last me the rest of my life and then some. So, it really pays to do all the research. Ride in and try out as many as possible. I'm glad you are considering your horse also; too many people think only of their own size then wonder why their horse acts up every time they get on it.
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New Member:
lilcrow
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 10:12 am:
Vicki, you ask what a buckin' roll is. On my saddle (and all others) they are located on the swell area. Rolls are attached to give a saddle that is a slick fork a facsimile of swells. Yes, it does have an advantage if the horse starts to buck; it acts as a brake or leverage to stop you from pitching forward in the event of a "rodeo." You're absolutely right about McCall being a working cowboy's saddle. You would also see them in Working Cow Horse, Ranch Horse, Foundation and Versatility classes and shows. I don't know if anyone here has ever been to one of these shows or watched a class, but I'll bet you'd really get hooked on them. This is an area where you could come a lot closer to showing your horse yourself. I'm not much of a fan of reining because of the kind of training that a horse has to go through to compete and win. It's really hard on most horses and if you don't have one that is bred specifically for that discipline, you can pretty much hang it up. The average horse just can't make it through the training. Shawn Flarida lived about 3 miles from my place around 10 or 15 years ago and I was able to see the training up close and personal. It's not what you think of as brutal or "cruel." No beating, or whipping or jerking around, but it is grueling and relentless. It NEVER lets up and the horses that can't take it sometimes actually break down mentally. The good trainers can tell pretty quickly if the horse has got it or not and will usually tell the owners to hang it up, but some owners want to push it and try anyway. Poor horses. They'd be much better off and money ahead to just go ahead and buy a reining horse. Such an expensive venture, I don't know if I'd call Reining a hobby, those folks are deadly serious. Like I said, poor horses, they are always the ones that come out on the short end of the stick.
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New Member:
lilcrow
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 11:02 am:
Just thought I'd show everybody what I had and what I have now. The Quarter Horse is a foundation bred 3 yr old grulla filly that I just sold. I had her in training and she was doing very well, but reality dawned on me that I'm just too old to be riding a 3 yr old out on trails. No matter how good she is, she's still a 3 yr old and I'm 60 and I've already had too many accidents. The ground is just to hard at this age. I sold her to a lovely woman with lots of money. She can give her all the things I can't. I black mare is a 7 yr Percheron. She is gorgeous and bred very well. I am thinking of breeding her, either to a reg. Percheron or a Friesian. I haven't made up my mind. I'm leaning toward the reg Percheron at this point even though it is actually easier to find the Friesian. Does anyone else have pictures of their horses? I'd love to meet them. 
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 12:08 pm:
Hi Nancy, we all love to show off pics of our horses...even tho we don't know what color they are
If you go to the Lounge, art..inspiration you will find a place for images..post your horses pics there and ask for the other pics...WE TRY not to interrupt others threads, but often do
By the way good job figuring out how to post pics so quickly...took me a year to figure it out!!!
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New Member:
lilcrow
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 8:14 pm:
Thanks Diane for the direction. I'll make sure that I check out "the Lounge." I had a feeling that I was not following protocol, but I charged ahead anyway. I'm very sorry for the interruption to the thread. I'll be more aware in the future. Thanks again.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 8:27 pm:
Nancy, don't worry about "breaking protocal." Poor Dr. O. must pull his hair out at some of us sometimes! It's just that you get more responses if you do it the "right way."
btw - Welcome!
I love your Percheron! Your grulla is pretty, from what I can see; but I have a weakness for the draft breeds, even though I don't own any, and yours looks really nice.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 8:41 pm:
I don't know how to post pix either. I tried and it was "too big". I think Cyndi told me to use Picassa? But, I don'tknow what that is yet.
I can see how showing could get addictive, but I am so far from being ready to do anything like that. Good for you D for getting in there!
I thought perhaps a reining saddle would give me "closer contact" with the narrower stirrup leathers, butterfly skirt,...perhaps I'm wrong? I made that assumption after reading online about different western saddles. I've only owned pleasure saddles (2), so I'm pretty ignorant.
So for you experienced folks, trainers, teachers, etc. What western saddle type is the most appropriate for someone with minimal experience? Perhaps something other than a reiner should be what I buy?
Thanks everyone for the info!
Diva Horse's favorite gait is whoa. I don't see much bucking from her! Hopefully I won't need bucking rolls.
I have been to several western shows, rodeos, PBR, and hitch shows in IN, OH, TX, MS, WY, CO, and NV but never any English shows. Not because I don't like them, just didn't know anyone who rode the English disciplines. I love it all. Cutting horses are amazing to watch!
And Nancy, the ground is pretty hard here too...!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 9:26 pm:
www.picassa.com OR Everyone says www.webresizer.com is good too and you don't have to download anything to your computer
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Member:
dsibley
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Posted on Monday, Apr 27, 2009 - 6:42 am:
Vicki, I think the big difference with a reining saddle (and I am NOT an expert in this by any means...) is the ability to move your legs better. I trail ride with a Circle Y, and sometimes use it to ride in the arena when I get lazy or don't want to get my show saddle dirty. I get a much better stop with the reining saddle. Proper tool for the job thing, I think!
As far as training is concerned, I think all disciplines must use techniques at the top levels that some of us might feel are questionable. I can't comment on that, as I have never seen anything first-hand. All I can say is that our horses here are not worked past their capabilities, they are trained with resistance-free methods, and are treated fairly. My mare would probably be able to hold her own in an open class (with someone besides me riding her!). Now my four-year-old is another story...he'll probably do well to take me thru rookie. But he seems to enjoy it, and if he turns out to be 'nothing' but a trail horse, I think the training he's received will never be wasted.
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New Member:
lilcrow
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Posted on Monday, Apr 27, 2009 - 9:04 am:
Vicki, the truth about the buckin' rolls on my saddle is they're mostly for the look. I was never planning on owning a horse that was going to give me that much of a hard time. Of course when you're out on a trail, you never know what might happen and every little bit that keeps your butt in the saddle helps. That half rough-out on my saddle was all part of that plan too. I figured with my chinks and by the time I got the rough-out worn down smooth I'd have my seat back, but all I've done is get older, more out of shape, and poorer. It's been a bitter pill to swallow, (deciding to quit riding) and I know everyone comes to this place in the road at sometime in their lives, but I think if I can hold on to my Percheron and keep driving, I'll be OK.
dieliz, I hope I didn't offend you. Obviously, I have some very strong opinions about things, but I'm a believer in open, honest discussion. Resistance free training is wonderful, but I can tell you that is not what you see being used at the top pro levels. Kudos to you for your decision to put your horses first.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Monday, Apr 27, 2009 - 10:29 am:
Thanks Diane! I used the webresizer.com and read the info on HA, and tada!
This is the Martin Saddlery Reiner saddle that is coming tomorrow for a test drive. It was in stock; I didn't special order it; they have a very cool software feature which will "build your saddle" like the auto/truck websites will "build your truck". That was fun to play with. Not really crazy about the heart on the back cinch, but that is a pretty small, inconsequential consideration...
Thanks everyone for your tips. I really appreciate them. I still like the idea of a narrow twist seat even though I haven't sat in one yet. This Martin is a regular seat however.
Nancy, I was thinking maybe a good Aussie saddle for trail perhaps...to give me the "extra hold" in factor for potential bee stung bolting horse? Ha ha. Diva horse welts up like she has Small Pox from fly bites...cannot imagine what would happen if she was bit or stung by a big horse fly, bee, wasp, etc. She has the whole fly sheet w/ belly band, boots, full face w/ ears fly mask to brave the sunny elements and flies. DIVA HORSE. She is as bomb proof, spook proof as I could find to buy. I DrOpped a crow bar on the concrete behind her one time and all she did was turn her head around to look, never offered to move her feet, dance, etc. Noises, blowing objects, balloons, squealing kids, barking dogs...etc. none of that bothers her; HOWEVER, I bet a sting would. She seems to have very sensitive skin and a huge reaction to flies, so a little extra safety on the trail might be advisable! I have enough screws and plates in my almost 50 year old ankles already!!
Nancy, we have a tandem Haflinger hitch although we are far from proficient. Driving would be another area I could post for help! Not anytime soon, however, my brain is mostly spinning over saddle selections! And arena building!
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Monday, Apr 27, 2009 - 10:50 am:
Sara, I was thinking a reining saddle for the reasons DLiz mentioned and the info I have read online about close contact, low ground seat, etc. to use in the arena for whatever "work" Diva Horse and I do.
What do you think?
I haven't researched trail saddles yet. My (new to me) horse trailer has a small living quarters, so I'm hoping...to do some long weekend camping and trail riding some day. Before I leave home, I will get comfortable in my arena. Or at least, that is the plan. But, after I find a saddle to use here at home, I will be looking for a trail saddle. Do you have any preferences?
Does anybody have any preferences? Suppose I should start a new threat for "Need new Trail Saddle" when the times comes. (I'm TRYING Dr. O to follow protocol! But the yakking goes off into so many tangents!)
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 - 10:46 am:
DLiz, I'm planning to go to Cloverdale on Saturday as a spectator...unless a miracle happens and the ground dries up and husband is in the field. If that happens, I have to be here to ferry food to the fields and command the Top Gopher position. It rained last night and this morning and it was already too wet to plant, so I DOUBT if he makes it to the field Saturday. Should I look for you in the reining class? Will the show bill/program list competitors? I will walk the barns if access is allowed. I do whenever I can. There are usually a few folks who want to talk (they must have others doing the work!) and I'm more than willing to listen.
Let me know!
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Member:
dsibley
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 - 11:11 pm:
The show that I plan to attend is the last weekend in May in Cloverdale. This weekend I'll be in Lake St. Louis at the NEC for the Missouri Reining Horse Assoc. show. Geez, I'm hooked!! My email address is diane.sibley(at)yahoo(dot) com. Email me for more info...
Wow! I like the Martin saddle. I have heard those are great! Let me know how you like it. As far as trail saddles, I just don't think you can beat the CircleY with a gel seat and flex tree. So comfortable, durable, and pretty. I need to look at the exact model that I have, but between me and my hubby, we have three of the same ones. Talk about being in a rut!!
Nancy, no offense taken. You were expressing an opinion, not making a personal reference. I indicated at the beginning that I am a 'newbie' to this sport. I have seen some trainers already who I think are too rough on their horses. But...HAHA...they don't seem to do well, either. No, if I have to start abusing my horse to win, I think I'll take up another 'hobby'. My son has all his motocross gear still...hmmmm....??
I am so jealous that you drive. I have a shire/paint cross filly that I plan to start driving in the future. Leira is currently two and is 16.2 hh. I won't try to ride her for at least another year and a half, but we are working on harness and ground driving right now. I think I'll send her off for 60 or 90 days to someone who can teach her to be traffic safe and to get her started well under harness.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 - 11:22 pm:
I doubt if I make the show at the end of May. I'll be needed on the farm for sure.  Hubby will be in Canada during that time, so I'll have to be here.
Well, disappointingly the UPS man did not bring me the saddle today. Poo to that! Maybe tomorrow.
Good Luck in St. Louis
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Member:
lilcrow
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 - 11:24 pm:
Vicki, I'm looking at an Aussie for my draft mare. I've never had one, but I think if I can get over myself (too cowgirl) I might find that they have a lot to recommend them. They don't weigh very much, so the older I get the better that sounds to me, and I think they are actually very comfortable, but they're certainly not reining saddles.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 - 11:54 pm:
I would definitely want a trail saddle for trail and a reining saddle for arena work. Right tool for the job...like someone said.
I'm not strongly sold on anything which is why I'm soliciting advice!
let me know if you find an Aussie you like. Like anything, wide range of quality.
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Member:
lilcrow
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 - 12:27 am:
Dliz, Wow a Shire! OMG! Even if she is a cross sounds like she's going to be a big girl. Should we start a new thread on driving and drafts? I'd love it. Cassie's 17.3 and there are some issues I'd really like to discuss about the drafts and being a new owner. Would you be interested?
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Member:
dsibley
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 - 6:45 am:
Vicki, if you can make it to Cloverdale, let me know. The next show after that isn't until the middle of July at the Illinois State Fairgrounds. Then Gordyville, IL in August.
Nancy, by all means start a new thread on drafts!
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Member:
lilcrow
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 - 8:23 am:
dieliz, I'm going to go research how to start a new thread. I'm kind of excited about this. Being able to talk about draft horses would be just heaven.
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 - 2:20 pm:
I have a Tucker saddle and use it for both trail and arena work. It has the narrow twist and gel cushion seat. I think it's a Tucker Cheyenne. I love it. It sits almost like a dressage saddle, with my legs under my hips. I bought it a few years ago and I was very new to horses at that time. It has served me well as an all around comfortable saddle. I admit it is a bit heavy, as many western saddles are.
Here is a link to their online webpage:
https://www.shopatron.com/index/468.1.22293.0.0.0.0
Good luck,
Linda
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 - 4:08 pm:
thanks linda, I'll look it up!
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 - 5:58 pm:
I have read many, many old posts/threads about saddle, fitting, types, etc. until I'm mentally exhausted.
I just want it to FIT the horse and be comfortable. Arg.
The Martin came and it was a disappointment. Poo. Wish I lived next door to some of the experts on this site and I would gladly pay them to fit my horse!!!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 - 8:21 pm:
Vicki when looking at the pics of your horse on the other thread I can see she is broad through the shoulders. In the pic with the old owner in the drill team, it appears the skirt is a little long.
I wonder if a arab saddle would work for her. SARA what do you think?? This is just going from the pics...can't fit a saddle that way, but does give you some ideas.
I know if the skirt is too long you can have trouble with sore loins, I had a friend that happened to, and if I Recall so did SaraW
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Member:
dove2
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 - 11:06 pm:
Vicki,
I too searched long and hard for a western saddle. I bought a Circle Y Park and Trail, and although it was very pretty and comfy for me, it still seemed so tight at my gelding's (a Paint) shoulders. I spent more money than I care to admit in saddle searching, but finally in a clinic with Mark Rashid and his assistant, Kathleen Lindley, they both highly endorsed Dave Genadek's saddles. See About The Horse website and review the info there. His CD is worth every penny. Whereas my horse used to move away every time I started to put the other saddles on his back, he stands rock solid now.
One of the most important tests, other than the obvious like the saddle being off the spine and withers, and not being too long or touching the hip, is to slide a flat hand under the saddle. You should have no restriction moving your hand at his shoulders, and an even pressure under the seat. A huge bonus of Genadek's saddles is that they put you in a centered, balanced position. That's something very hard, if not impossible, to find in a trail/western saddle. If you can find one of his saddles on EBay or the internet, it would be very worthwhile. He even sells used saddles on his website. They're pricey, but you can usually get your money back when (if) you sell them. Just my 2 cents worth, but I know exactly what you're going through!
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 30, 2009 - 9:45 am:
D, I've been wondering about the Arab saddle after Sara mentioned it earlier.
I am going to put the four saddles we have on her, take pictures from both sides, front, and back, and post them and see what you all think if you have time to look at it.
Dove2, I have looked at DGenadek's site a few times and considered ordering the DVD. I thought about going to the Minnesota Expo last weekend, because he was going to be there doing a clinic about saddle fitting, but I wasn't able to get away for such a long drive/trip. I appreciate you telling me your first hand experience. I don't remember seeing pricing on his website, so I'll have to go back and look. I really don't mind paying the $ if the saddle FITS. I don't need the Taj Mahal with gobs of extra bling, goodies, etc. I have a show saddle if I need that bling fix. Also, thanks for the tips on checking the saddle fit. I have run across all of those tips in my online research, but it sure never hurts to read them again, again, and again. Especially for someone like me who has no experience fitting a saddle. "Just bought it with the horse"...which of course is no guarantee it fits either I suppose...
I'm more than willing to pay an expert--there's just no expert handy! Thankfully, there are many experts here on HA to point me in the right direction.
What is an Arizona Bar?
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 10:38 pm:
dieliz, went to cloverdale today. it was a nice show!
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Sunday, May 3, 2009 - 1:25 am:
Is there a reason that you are not looking for a used saddle? I've had quite a few different western saddles over the years, right now I'm "down" to three saddles. One is a beautiful, hand carved, silver mounted Circle Y Richard Shrake. It sits in house though. I would rather ride the antique N. Porter that I found used at a saddle maker shop. It's soooo secure and comfortable, and the horse moves best when he wears it. My third saddle is a serviceable antique, it's ridable, but I am making a project out of restoring it.
Ironic isn't it that a $400 dollar antique is a better ride than a "fancy" saddle that sells for a few thousand.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, May 3, 2009 - 7:30 am:
Yea Vicki I have an old saddle gathering dust here...it used to be hubby's and he hasn't rode for years...I can't remember if it is a roping saddle or reining saddle. It is built tough and very comfy. Fit all of our broad horses well. Not fancy, but very functional! I believe it is herford brand. 16 in. seat, that's why I can't use it. I take a 15. We bought it used probably 20 yrs. ago. I used it for hank when he was first broke out and actually it is more comfy than my new CircleY
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Sunday, May 3, 2009 - 5:32 pm:
the ancient Crawley saddle I have was used when I bought it and it is comfortable. I sitll like it.
I would just like a new one. Never had a new one.
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Member:
hpyhaulr
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Posted on Sunday, May 3, 2009 - 10:04 pm:
About the name thing.... CIndy & I have been confused for each other for a couple of years now. Seeing as how we usually agree though, it hasn't been an issue for us. We laugh about it from time to time.
Reining saddle... Walt has a couple of old saddles, I know NOTHING about the names of saddles, but his favorite is a reining saddle he got at a truck stop a couple of years ago. An older cowboy, down on his luck, needed cash and offered his 'prize' saddle to Walt. Walt said while it was real nice, he couldn't reall afford it, the guy said he would take $150 for it. Walt's eyes bugged out of his head, he felt bad, and gave the guy $200 (Walt drives a hard bargain, we know this). HE SWEARS it is the most comfortable saddle he has ever sat in. Right now it is at Skeeter's in Va getting a new seat sewn in, Walt is like a little kid, he HAS to get his saddle back. So if you see an old goat barreling down the interstate sitting just a LITTLE high in the drivers seat of that Ram 3500.... you just may know why now! With no time to get on a horse, he may have to resort to using it in the truck!
Nothing useful there, but that's my saddle story!
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Member:
dove2
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Posted on Monday, May 4, 2009 - 6:56 am:
Hey, I know Skeeter's! It's real close to me. Are you in my area? I'm always checking to see if there's any HA members close by. I'd love to meet you! If you're not close, how did you come to choose Skeeters?
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Monday, May 4, 2009 - 1:56 pm:
I can't remember without looking at the wash rack thread whether it was Cyndy or Cindy who wanted to see it...? I'll try to get it straight. Vicki Z spells her name same as me which has confused Sara W a few times.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, May 4, 2009 - 4:36 pm:
LOL Sara W confuses Angie and Me all the time Figure that one out!
I guess our name have 4 common letters..in different order
Sorry I couldn't resist
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, May 4, 2009 - 5:50 pm:
Diane, that's not fair! I have learning disabilities. Funny though, they didn't seem to show up until I was over 50.
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Member:
dsibley
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Posted on Monday, May 4, 2009 - 8:29 pm:
That's why I decided to use half of my first name and part of my middle for my username. Too many Dianes out there....
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Monday, May 4, 2009 - 9:39 pm:
I just brought home a Sedona ladies reiner from Continental Saddlery: https://www.reiningauthority.com/product.sc?productId=16&categoryId=1 I don't know how it will be as it's raining here and I don't want to get it wet! I'll update after I put it on a few horses. This company has a flexible tree and only makes reining saddles.
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Member:
dsibley
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Posted on Monday, May 4, 2009 - 11:23 pm:
Well, Vicki, I am sad to report that my new Billy Cook didn't make the outcome of the show any better. I went off-pattern twice. However, I did take sixth in Green Rider one day, which just made me sooo hard to live with! This was my third show, so I am pretty doggone proud! Will do better next time...I'll work hard on teaching the danged horse to count...one-two-three-WHOA.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 - 7:58 am:
Julie, I have no experience with a flexible tree at all, so I'll be interested to hear what you think of it.
Dieliz, You are becoming quite the veteran! I stayed at Cloverdale most of the day Saturday watching and walking around. Trail and reining classes looks interesting. There were a zillion WP classes. It has been a long time since I watched a WP class. Have things changed in the thirty years? The walk looked like a zombie trance with a pace that seemed like a death shuffle--didn't look like a "pleasure" to me. Wasn't what I remembered at all. The trot/jog was ok and so was the "modern version" of the trot/jog. The canter/lope seemed inconsistent. Some held their heads/necks way below the topline so that they looked listless. Some looked natural and others looked so forced. I don't know much, but it seemed I only saw one happy horse. The rest were just "dutiful". A horse that kept winning had huge wedges on his front feet. Wasn't sure about that. It made the angle steep on his hoof. Class sizes ranged from 6 to 19.
Talked to the owner of the complex about his footing indoors and outdoors. He was very nice and helpful. He didn't really know what kind of sand he had--"just sand".
Sara W, I seemed to have developed the same learning disabilities later in life...slow to see, arms not long enough anymore, a bit creaky the first 20 steps in the morning, repeat myself, etc.
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 - 9:56 am:
Hey V.
There are a few reiner saddles up on tacktrader.com
L
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 - 10:55 am:
Vickie, better not go there!
I watched a QH/Paint show last time I was in Del Mar. It was a huge show with several arenas going at once and lots of horses. I saw the same gaits in the arena, and imo the horses were looking more normal than they did a few years ago.
What is really sad is that for some reason some of the Arabs are copying the QH's and going for the REALLY slow gaits. I'd better not start a rant on that one I guess; we'll all run out of coffee before I finished "stating" my opinion!
Vickie, I have no idea what price range you are looking at, but I splurged a year or two ago and got a Skyhorse saddle. It is the most comfortable thing I've ever used. They'll make anything/style you want. And, they'll back their saddles. The ones with less silver aren't much more than you'd spend for any good handmade saddle. They wear like iron and will last you beyond the rest of your life. Also, if you don't like it, sell your horse, etc. they'll buy it back and resell it and their used ones sell for almost as much as their new ones, so you'll get almost all of your money back. I'm not on their payroll, but I love my saddle so much I thought I'd mention it again.
On the other end of the scale, last year I bought a Wintec western saddle for around $300, and use it for training or riding in crummy weather. I have an English all purpose that has seen lots of use and lasted me 14 years so far; I imagine this one will last as long. It's not as comfortable as the Skyhorse, or my old western saddle (50+ yrs. old and still in use)but isn't bad and the horses seem to like it.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 - 10:57 am:
One other thought; a good, well fitting saddle will make you a better rider. Don't feel you have to "earn" one. It's hard to ride good in a saddle that doesn't fit and you're having to struggle to keep the right balance/body position.
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Member:
lilcrow
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Posted on Wednesday, May 6, 2009 - 8:26 pm:
Vicki,
Does my heart good to hear you say that about what I am assuming are the "Pleasure" classes. As you said, doesn't look like much pleasure for anyone.
Sara, it is hard for me to even visualize an Arabian trying to copy what the Quarter Horses do. It is an abomination when they do it, but it would seem physically impossible for Arabians to do it. I didn't think they were capable of dragging their heads around the arena like that.
I'm a Quarter Horse person and it has been a real heartbreak to see what AQHA has allowed the judges the judges to do. That is why I got involved in the Foundation movement.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Wednesday, May 6, 2009 - 10:37 pm:
L645, I'll check it out! thanks!! Still haven't got to try a Crates narrow twist. Looks like I'll have to pay 5% + shipping to "try one"...
Sara W, I reallllllllly liked the ribbon turquoise saddle Skyhorse had in stock. I don't need a lot of bling on it. (The "parade" saddle I have is pretty obnoxious with the bling...Textan (one size fits all...) "Luck of the Draw". It's on their website. I paid 1/2 the price when I bought it with the horse. The skirt is way too long for Diva Horse now that I'm "smarter" about such stuff; however, at the walk in a parade her loins aren't going to take a pounding. It looks long, but for my purposes, it will be fine.) If I take the plunge on a Skyhorse, I would want it to FIT the horse for that kind of money! How wonderful though that they will buy back the saddle! How did you order your saddle from them? Sometimes I feel I don't know where to start looking for a saddle that is already made let alone A CUSTOM saddle. So, I would definitely need to figure out how to give Skyhorse for sure good info before they make me a high $ saddle...! So maybe I should buy a Wintec so I get can moving and do more research on a Skyhorse!
My ancient Charles Crawley 15" pleasure saddle from CC Saddlery here in Indiana (long defunct) has a 26" single skirt/14" on the side, and I THINK a 6 1/2" gullet. It might be a 7", depending upon where it's measured, but 7" is so big, I'm thinking it's a 6 1/2". Anyway, the sweat mark left is even when she wears it. When I put the saddle on her w/o the pad, I can run my hand under the skirt from the shoulder to the back. I THINK it's a good fit although I really think a 25" skirt would be even better. Unless of course...I had the saddle too far back... I could put two fingers between her shoulder and the skirt...?
The Martin was a 27" skirt and it looked stupid on her. The end of it was past her flank.
And, if you much more experienced horse people think the WP gaits are a little artificial, then I don't feel so bad. It's been YEARS since I had watched a WP class, but I was shocked. I had thought I might take an interest in WP, but I don't think so if that's what I have to make DIVA horse do.
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Wednesday, May 6, 2009 - 11:06 pm:
I just got the Sedona (see post above) on my horse, put my foot in the stirrup and the sky opened up on me! But wow, it sits nice and he offered a lope so nice I am hoping it's the saddle and not just a fluke! I still haven't really ridden in it, but I'm looking forward to it and hoping I like it as much as I did for those few minutes!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, May 7, 2009 - 7:04 pm:
Nancy, not the heads as low as QH but much lower than norma carriage and the reall slow gaits, even "four beating" at the lope.
Vickie, they will guide you through how to do measurements and pictures so they get the right fit. My sister-law had one done and it fit both her and her horse beautifully. I bought one from them they had already made that just happened to be exactly right.
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Member:
dsibley
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Posted on Friday, May 8, 2009 - 9:40 am:
If I can interject one additional word of advice: be careful of older saddles put back into use. A friend of mine won a saddle as a teenager. Life happened, she quit riding for almost twenty years, and the saddle was stored in her father's barn. She recently started riding again, and took the saddle back. Her mare was an idiot each time she was ridden. It was finally determined that the old wood tree had suffered dry rot and had broken probably the first time she put the saddle on the horse. No wonder the poor thing was crazy. So, a good saddle maker can replace the old tree with a new one and check wear on all the leather. It would be a very good investment for those who still want to use their old saddles. (that was more than 'a word', wasn't it?)
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Friday, May 8, 2009 - 12:18 pm:
good advice dliz!
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Member:
lilcrow
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Posted on Friday, May 8, 2009 - 1:11 pm:
Sara,
Thank God for small favors, specifically that they're not dragging their heads, but I'm very sorry to hear about the four beat "crippled" lope. Talk to the judges, they are the ones that have control over this. If they don't put it up, people will quit showing it! God I HATE the stupid, unnatural stuff that people do to horses in the name of style.
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Member:
lilcrow
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Posted on Friday, May 8, 2009 - 1:35 pm:
Vicki,
Why don't you check out some "Ranch Horse" shows. The classes are MUCH more natural and you don't even need a registered Quarter Horse to participate. Quarters and Paints can earn points toward specific type titles. I'm not totally up on the point system, but one of my girlfriends earned numerous Championships and ROM's in a bunch of classes and ended up earning a Versatility Championship because of the variety of the classes he won. There is no Western Pleasure class, it is called Ranch Riding and it is much more FUN and realistic than a WP class. The reining classes aren't dominated by trainers and amateurs actually stand a chance of placing or winning.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Friday, May 8, 2009 - 3:21 pm:
Nancy, I didn't think the WP looked "stylish" at all. It's not what I remembered from so long ago. I remembered it being graceful. The lope looks stilted and so many of them teeter totter their front ends and back ends which makes them look like an awkward hobby horse. But I'm of course, NO EXPERT. It just looked awkward.
Newbie here never heard of a Ranch Horse Show. Not sure if corn country (not that we have a single seed in the ground with this darned wet spring) here has such a thing! Diva horse is a registered Paint. Sounds like something I need to Google. No wonder those Google boys made a fortune. Thanks for the info; it does sound interesting.
Which reminds me of a story. When the web really started "happening", I tried to explain a search engine to my elderly grandmother. She didn't get it. Finally i said a search engine is like a super fast librarian on a caffeine high on turbo roller skates searching the stacks for what you need...times a million zillion. That didn't work either. She thought there REALLY WAS A PERSON doing the looking... Rest her soul.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Friday, May 8, 2009 - 3:24 pm:
Sara, it's so tempting...but if I buy a 1500 $ Crates for now...then I have "go" money to run around the country...maybe to Utah!
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Friday, May 8, 2009 - 9:53 pm:
Vicki, I know that quality is important to you, so here is a dandy. I aspire to have a saddle from this maker some day 
Here are two links one to the website home, and the other to the saddle's page.
https://www.jjmaxwell.com/trail_reiner.htm
https://www.jjmaxwell.com/Hope%20Saddles.htm
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 8:06 am:
Thanks Susie! I'll look it up pronto. Been busy the past few days here on the farm and haven't been back online to search. The saddle you posted is beautiful.
Love your horse's portrait on your profile page!
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 7:47 pm:
Update on the saddle search. Had a bit of a stall for several reasons. Weather got in the way with spring planting, and we were far behind. It's been dry five days and we have been burning the midnight oil. Corn is in. Working on beans now. Trying to beat the rain forecasted for tomorrow and Tuesday; however, that probably won't be enough time either--need about four more days.
So. Weather and life duties aside from horses was an interruption.
Second big stall was I hurt myself on May 12. Tore the LCL on my left knee stepping down off a tractor step onto uneven ground. Saw the bone doc yesterday (took that long to get an appt...) He said to continue rest, elevation, compression, and ice...see me in two weeks. Sigh.
Of course no arena work started, so that slows down any arena riding LOL.
After I hurt myself, I started obssessing over the proper riding position. I don't want to get a saddle that puts me in a "chair" position. I don't want to torque my knee...
So here's the question for you experts...Anyone have an opinion about the Ladies Crates Reiner #4517 with regard to proper position?
Second question: Anyone have an opinion about the most comfortable stirrup for an old lady of 49 with two bum ankles full of screws and plates?
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 8:13 pm:
I forgot to update on the Continental Sedona Ladies Reiner. I LOVE it! It is the most comfortable saddle I've ever ridden in. Doesn't ride like a new saddle at all! And I've even been on a couple of trail rides on it and no knee or ankle discomfort. No uneven sweat marks on any of the three horses I've had it on. I do think they have something with this flexible tree. Every horse was moving well. Vicki, I have MANY years on you and whatever saddle you buy, be sure the stirrups are already turned and wrapped into position.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 9:04 pm:
Vicki sorry about your knee, I am just back to normal after a ACL and meniscus tear. I opted for no surgery, but it definitely was a long haul and PAINFUL.
You might want to wait until your injury is healed, when mine was healing (It took OVER a year) no saddle felt good! I am back to riding in my CircleY...which killed my knee for quite awhile, but is now fine. I don't think you'll be able to judge until you are healed. 6 - 8 mos. post injury it still hurt my knee to ride.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 9:16 pm:
Ow, Vickie! I sympathize regarding your knee. I've had three knee surgeries, two of them ACLs, and I had a plate and pins in one of my ankles for a a couple of years. Do you have to leave your plate and pins in or do you have the option of getting them out? Mine became so painful, esp. when I rode, I had them out and my ankle is 100% better without them.
I've wondered about those stirrups that have springs (I think) in them so they have some give and absorb jolts and bumps. I've forgotten what they are called. Springers?? My last knee surgery was 5 or 6 yrs. ago and my knee still gets sore with a lot of riding. I ride with my stirrups a little longer than I should and kick my foot out of the stirrup for a minute or two now and then.
I have an endurance riding friend who swears by those extra wide stirrups. She says they give a lot more support, but I haven't tried them.
Do follow your doctor's orders. If you don't, it will take much longer to heal up. Hope you get better soon! Can you rest your leg while driving the tractor? Or do you get to lie around and eat bonbons while shoping for a new saddle?
Julie, I thought I was the oldest "old lady" here! btw, LOVE the pinto in your profile!
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 10:09 pm:
Sara, you and I may be the "dowagers!" The paint is "Elvis Left the Buildin" born on the kings birthday!
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Member:
lilcrow
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Posted on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 10:10 pm:
Vicki, whatever saddle you end up with, I suggest that it have pre-twisted stirrups. I've got Rheumatoid Arthritis, I've broken a hip, an ankle, a knee and generally just had too much fun(???). It has been very hard for me to get comfortable in a saddle, but the pre-twisted leathers have helped the most in giving me the best relief from knee and ankle discomfort.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 8:27 am:
Julie, Glad you like your Sedona!
Diane, Sara W, and Nancy: Were all of these busted, broken, torn injuries due to riding?
Good thing I have a plug ride. Actually she has a lot of gas when the pedal is pushed. She would prefer however, not to use it if at all possible. She is light on the leg aids; maybe my knee won't get a work out. LOL. When I tried her out before purchase, I got on, adjusted myself, and squeezed a bit too hard and she took off like a cannon. From a standstill to a run like she was headed for home after the third barrel! I almost got left behind.
Sara W, I was told I could have the plate taken out after a year. It's been two. Just didn't want to have more surgery just yet even though it will just be the wound healing, not the bone! Nothing was said about the 9 screws being taken out. ? The plate is on the outside of my right ankle and it does rub in some boots. Would be nicer if it was out. Maybe this winter. My insurance ran out in Feb. Need to find some since my teaching Cobra expired. Ick.
Did you ladies ride in a knee brace of any kind or did you stay on the ground until you were healed? I'm betting you all didn't stay on the ground.
Supposedly the TexTan that came with the horse had pretwisted stirrups, but if so, it didn't seem like it to me. I keep a weighted broom stick through the turned stirrups on the saddle rack.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 9:16 am:
Vicki, like you I stepped off a ladder wrong. I don't know how serious an lcl injury is, but I couldn't ride or walk comfortably for a LONG time. My right lead still isn't very good.
I have no pain riding anymore finally. I did ride for some very short jaunts, but that was about all I could take...then broke my ribs (riding accident) so I haven't been in the saddle much the last couple years either..
Glad you have a trusty steed that will help! My saddle is broke in, but it still hurt and had to be very careful mounting and dismounting.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 11:20 am:
My knees were due to running on uneven sand, and not having sense enough to slow down when skiing over moguls. My neck was also a ski accident; took a bad fall when racing. My ankle was from a hiking accident - yes, I'm unable to walk and look a scenery at the same time!
I highly recommend getting the plate out. I can't tell you how much better my ankle feels since mine was taking out. I had one screw that kept jabbing me which was very painful. I think if they feel good about taking the plate out, they'll take out the screws also.
While you are "under" to get the plate and screws out, the recovery is very short. My doctor told me just to let pain be my guide, the bone was healed and to treat the ankle after removal like just a regular open wound. I had to keep it covered and clean, but after a day just took tylenol and limped around until it healed, which really didn't take very long.
With my knees I DrOve the doctor crazy. Thankfully, he was a sports med guy who was used to people that wanted to be active. I kept a brace on, but did everything I normally did. When riding I kept my leg out of the stirrups so I didn't put pressure on my knee.
My first knee was years ago and they did a tendon graft from my upper leg, which took a long time to heal. They put one of those braces that go from hip to ankle on me. That was a major pain in the neck, but I got really good on crutches, hiked all over Bryce Canyon and rode a mule down the Grand Canyon. The second knee was much more recent and they doc used cadaver tendon, so the healing time was much quicker.
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 12:43 pm:
((Giggle)) Sorry you guys, I can't help but chuckle about all the injuries we are nursing! At least they're not ALL from horse adventures. If they were, Dr. O would have to censor us--we'd scare away all potential riders!
I have to second what Sara says about the screws and plates. They always tell you that you can leave them in, but virtually everyone i know that had them continued to have discomfort until they were removed. Since you are laid up anyway, Vicki, you might consider getting them out and only go through one recovery.
Sara, I am so jealous that you did the Grand Canyon mule thing!! I have wanted to do that my whole life. But unfortunately when I actually got to the Grande Canyon, I was too terrified to do it. I couldn't even come close to handling the fear of that first step down the trail with the shear cliff down the left! I guess I will only see Phantom Ranch in my dreams...
Erika
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Member:
lilcrow
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 3:14 pm:
Vicki, my hip was from acting foolish and running downhill - in gravel. That doesn't work very well, at least not for me at age 55. The ankle and knee were a carriage accident. I was a driver in downtown Cincinnati and a taxi rear-ended my horse and me one night. It totaled the carriage, didn't hurt the passengers, knocked my horse down and cut him up a bit thank God, not seriously, and I guess I got the worse of the deal. Sitting up that high, it's a long way to the ground and nothing to break the fall.
Your mare sounds like she is highly trained, not a slug at all.
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Member:
lilcrow
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 3:19 pm:
By the way, those pre-twisted stirrups should look like the stirrups on my saddle and the 3rd saddle posted on here. You shouldn't have to put a broom stick in them to train them around.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 7:28 pm:
Erika, the canyon ride is fantastic; I want to do it again. Lonnie hiked down, but it was too much for me on crutches, so I did a lot of "sweet talking" and convinced the mule wrangler to let me ride down. I learned that the mules make a couple of "dry runs" up and down, then are used for a year or two hauling supplies, then for body recovery and aren't used for live people until they've gone up and down for at least 3 years. I felt safer on the mule than I would have walking.
It's a way off the topic of saddles, but since Vickie needs entertaining I'll tell you about the ride. The ride down was pretty uneventful; I rode near the wrangler and we talked a lot about mules, then canyon and tourists. On the way back the wrangler asked me to ride as the last mule to kind of make sure everyone was doing o.k. He said for some reason people go down better than they ride up. Sure enough, about half way up this woman started shrieking. There is one place where the trail passed under some overhanging rock, like half a tunnel. This woman had grabbed hold of the rock wall and was quite hysterical. The poor mule she was on didn't know what to do; he tried going forward and she just clung harder to the rock, so he backed up and just stood there.
The wrangler asked my to come up and hold his mule and place my mule across the trail so no one would go past, and he walked back and took the woman's hands from the rock and put them around her saddle horn and told her to just hang on to it, and tried to reassure her about the mules, etc. She calmed down a little, and we continued on to the top without further problems.
There was this big heavy guy on a mule named Jake in front of me. Jake had a real sense of humor. This guy was pretty nervous to start with; ol' Jake sensed this and thought it would be fun to play it up a bit. Everytime the trial would bend around a corner, Jake would drag a toe and knock a rock or two off the ledge. Each time he did this, his rider would turn a little paler green. Sometimes Jake would kind of swing a hip out when he kicked the rock off. I was laughing so hard at him tears were running down my cheeks! Jake wasn't about to fall or leap off the edge of the trail, but he sure made the rider feel like he might! Finally the wrangler caught on to what Jake was doing and yelled at him to quit and he did; but you could tell he was laughing all the way back to the top!
The scenery is undescribably beautiful! I prefer the north rim to the south rim; it is higher up and more forested than the north rim. We stopped at a beautiful falls and pool for our lunch - a little mini ecosystem with trees, fern, birds, etc. Lion tracks, too. It's an experience I highly recommend to everyone. Yes, you go along a rim that DrOps several thousand feet straight down in places, but it is so pretty you don't really think about the DrOp.
Nancy, you DrOve a carriage downtown!?? Wow! YOU are brave!
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Member:
lilcrow
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 7:11 am:
Yeah? Well, I guess I've got the war wounds to go with that. I'm not sure if I'd call it brave, more like uninformed. There are so many things, in retrospect, that I know this company came up short on regarding safety. I have since then talked with the owner of another carriage company and found that it is possible to run one of these rides - in a downtown area - safely.
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 7:30 am:
Love the story about Jake the mule, Sara! The ride down in to the Grand Canyon is very high on my "must do" list...just have to wait for my daughter to get a little older before I risk it with her. I did see a documentary on how they trained the mules - fascinating and quite reassuring as well!
...Someday....
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 8:29 am:
The mule story is a hoot. Mules are smart aren't they?
Don't know if this is entertaining, but it's a fond memory for me. I worked the summer of 1980 at a dude ranch in Colorado near Rocky Mtn National Park and I'd be willing to bet the nose to tail horses for rent weren't as well trained as the mules at the Grand Canyon... In 2000 my husband and I returned to the area and rented some mounts from Allenspark Livery. The wrangler had some fun with us and gave us some quirky horses--quirky if you ask me to rent to tourists. My mare reared every time she left the barn. Of course they didn't mention that until after she did it. Startling but no damage. Husband's horse was named Sir Richard (Dick being the name usually used for him; and of course they told us that AFTER the ride.) Poor husband. That horse jigged I think for two hours. I don't think he ever just WALKED. Anyway after we survived the two hours without a guide and made it back to the livery the head wrangler said we could ride all week for free if we wanted. We did.
We wound up taking seven brothers and sisters (ages 10-16) on a nine hour mtn ride up the mtn because no wranglers at the livery wanted to mess with a "kid ride" because there probably wouldn't be a tip. What an experience. Can't believe the livery folks turned us loose like that on their liability. The stinker boy on the trip was 12 and he really didn't want to walk in the mtns, he wanted to rodeo even though he had never been on a horse before. We were on a trail on the side of the mtn at one point which was a "burn out". All of the trees on both sides of the trail were burnt down to two to four feet and looked like sharp stockade poles...No vegetation except for scrub grass. The view was incredibile;however, it was a pretty sheer DrOp of about 1500 ft which could be seen quite clearly since there were no trees! Not to mention skewering oneself if she/he fell off! Darling 12 year old decided that would be a good spot to stop his horse, DrOP the reins, and take a photo. He DrOpped his lens cap which caused a mild panic because I wouldn't unsaddle the horse to "look for it." Egads. I had put this little stinker behind me (I have taught 7/8th grade for years, so I know a busy, busy boy when I see one.) Luckily the wonderful horse they had given me to lead was a gem. He turned expertly on that narrow trail so I could face the little stinker's horse and pick up the reins. I retied a knot in the split reins so he wouldn't DrOp them again... Darling boy had untied the knot because he was "bored" walking in the Rocky Mtns with unbelieveable scenery. Then later one of the girls had altitude sickness and vomited all over her horse's neck rather than lean to the side...and of course now it was mentioned that she is susceptible to migraines... We started at about 7200 ft I think and went up to 9500 ft if I remember correctly. I'll have to check my facts with Google! And then of course it rained as it often does in the mtns and we had the poncho attire to don on the trail. Luckily we were in a flatter, forested area to do this! The stinker continued to be a stinker and by midafternoon husband had seen enough of junior holding his horse back and then kicking it to make it trot down the trail to catch up with me. He whizzed up the line and grabbed the stinker's reins and handed them to me and I ponied the kid the rest of the way while he held the horn. The trail horses may not have been polished, but they knew their jobs and tolerated idiot tourists well. None had the sense of humor the mule displayed however! Probably a good thing with kids aboard.
We arrived safely. The wranglers were amazed we didn't turn around and come back after the vomiting. And no there wasn't a tip although we would have given it to the wranglers--we got to ride for free all week!
My husband's uncle is, I have been told, the oldest man to ride a mule to the bottom of the Grand Canyon. He was 87 when he did. He is 94 now and still going strong. Nerves of steel from being a fighter pilot in WWII!
I'd like to do the canyon ride. Isn't there a wait list of two+ years or something like that?
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 8:35 am:
Sara, you sound like a dare devil. Downhill skiing would not be for me. Tried it once on some bunny hills and decided I valued my life too much to keep trying.
Nancy, you are a dare devil to drive a carriage in downtown any place. People are nuts. Pedestrians and Drivers. I have taken a couple rides and marvel that more accidents don't happen. Definitely pretwisted stirrups!
Diane, I won't be such a whiner after I read you had the knee injury and then turned around and broke your ribs. I must be more patient. But it feels like I have been patient!!!! For 20 years!!! Waiting for time, $, and opportunity to own and ride MY horse.
So, I'll remember Erika's cautionary tale and try to quit fuming...
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 9:10 am:
Gee, I haven't been opening these Reining Saddle posts because I'm not looking for a reining saddle, but I opened them this a.m. and see that somewhere along the way, the discussion took a couple of turns.
Can't believe the dude ranch wranglers let non-employees take tourists on a ride! Yikes . . .
Is there really a 2 year wait on the Canyon ride? I would love to visit there and ride down . . . sometime before I die.
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 9:34 am:
Hi Vicki, What a story! I worked for a very good livery that took rides into Rocky Mountain National Park. The liveries run by Sombrero (Allenspark is one of those) were notorious for their terrible safety record, and it sounds like things haven't changed. Whenever dudes gave us a bad time, we'd recommend they try Sombrero
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 10:11 am:
Susie, I would agree whole heartedly with you about Sombrero. I worked at a Dude Ranch near Allenspark Livery back in 1980. The Dude Ranch would NEVER have allowed a nonemployee to take a ride out. We used to joke back then about "Rent A Wreck" from Sombrero...(at Allenspark). So in 2000 when we were in the area, we headed to the Livery figuring we could walk in and rent two horses with no problem. We did. I knew Roosevelt Forest fairly well from my work back in 1980--the trails hadn't changed. I would bet that my husband (trained EMT and former 25 year fire chief) and I were TONS safer than the teenage/early 20 somethings wranglers working at the livery. I had many years managing "troublesome" kids in the public schools. I was by no means a skilled, competitive rider but I wasn't an total idiot either. The children were a well behaved group except for the stinker and he wasn't mean--just a typical 12 year old BUSY boy who had no business on such a long ride. Their dad was a wealthy neurosurgeon in St. Louis. The family had 11 kids with another on the way. Large strict Mormon family. Expectant mom, dad, and the youngest child stayed at the lodge (somewhere near Estes Park) while the kids took their "Long Awaited" ride. Estes Park didn't have enough horses/guides or something, so the kids were driven from Estes to Allenspark. Apparently no one clued dad in about the miserable safety at Sombrero facilities. I truly felt we were a better pair to take the ride from that barn---and they were only going to send a single wrangler--no one to ride drag and monitor from behind. And they were going to send the YOUNGEST wrangler because no one wanted to take the ride! The barn rules stated no one under 14 but they let the 10 and 12 year old go and no parent or adult over 18! My husband spoke up and said we'd take them. And "Bucky" the head wrangler said sure. Brother. He goofed up a couple weeks later and let two people go alone up the mtn to Finch Lake for an overnight camp and one of the horses managed to kick one person in the face. The man was life lined by helicopter to Denver. He made it. Bucky lost his job I suspect. And rightly so.
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 10:27 am:
Wow! That is crazy. Imagine how that ride might have gone without you and your husband there. As to the awful overnight story, I'm not so sure about Bucky. He might still be there.
You might enjoy this Wranglers Lament song, let's see if I can type it out fast enough before I go to work. Sung to Ghost Riders in the Sky: (you gotta sing it for full effect) enjoy....
An old cowpoke went ridin on a dark and windy day,
Upon a ridge he rested as he went along his way,
When all at once a mighty herd of gunsels he did see
A comin down the wagon trail, and bouncin off the trees
Their boots were new, their nails were done, their shirts were neatly pressed,
They all had on designer jeans and cameras on their chests
Their butts were all a-swollen from a-bouncin on a horse,
And as to ridin ability...
They were all experts of course
CHORUS:
We wanna go faaaaaaast,
We're goin to Slo-o=o=o=ow...
Gunsel riders in the sky!
As the riders bounced on by him, he heard one call his name,
"Hey buddy can you spare a pill to ease this awful pain?"
He heard them all a moanin as they bounced on down the trail
A-fallen off to left and right, and settin up a wail
We wanna go faaaaast!
We're goin too slo-o-o-o-ow,
Gunsel riders in the sky!
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 10:30 am:
Gulp, Sara, I have finally caught my breath enough to answer about your mule ride. I swear I had vertigo while I read it!!
I have always had a pretty good fear of heights, and I have hiked in some pretty crazy places. But something about the sheer magnitude of the Grand Canyon did me in on first sight.
The only way to get me down there would be to sedate me so much that I would be liable to fall right off my mule!
Just so you don't think I'm a total wimp, here's us in Hunan a few years ago trying to conquer fear:
https://lh6.ggpht.com/_PkUJ1WKY2FE/RfraEvlhadI/AAAAAAAAAjo/21AsttWrzd4/s720/DSCF0 928.JPG
Sorry for the link. I have a new iMac, and the posting window is blank. Anyone know how to post with mac?
But all of you and your "tales of the cliffs" are scaring the cr*p out of me!
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 11:25 am:
What was this discussion about again?Getting confused between the ball & injuries, and knees, and ankles...and saddle fit?
Beautiful picture, Erika! Not sure if I'd like being up that high, but I could make myself go just for the view.
My biggest fear is water...I hate being over a big body of water. Love canoeing, in a fast moving river, but afraid to go on cruise ship.
My worst experience with a water related/horses accident was crossing a river and loosing the horse out from under me! she went back to the side we had just come from, I had a looong walk, minus shoes, to get back to the road and back to the horses. This happened on the property of the (at that time)Gainey Arabian Farm, and the workers who caught & tied our horses, had a lot of fun with 2 wet girls who came looking for their steeds!
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 11:25 am:
Susie that song is hilarious! Thanks for taking the time to type the lyrics. I dunno if "Bucky" still had a job or not. He was about 50 I'd reckon in 2000 but he didn't own a thing and didn't care. He had the most devil may care, shrug his shoulders attitude I had ever seen. He proudly told us that he had "The fifth most important day of my life" coming up that summer. He was getting married for the FIFTH time...to a 22 year old starry eyed wrangler who thought Bucky was the greatest... I cannot imagine what her parents back home in Ohio thought of the match. Wonder if the marriage ever happened. It is interesting to take a peek how others live. Certainly was different that's for sure.
One of the best memories of the staff was a staff only ride on a Sunday when the guest turnover happened such that no one needed us for a few hours. We played hide and seek in two mounted teams in Roosevelt National Forest. It began to rain in the sunshine, a rainbow appeared over the "Sleeping Indian" mountain and we all stopped in a meadow and sang America The Beautiful. 20 staff ages 16-25 who thought they had the greatest life ever at that moment in time! I'm sure we did some stupid stuff. One day we got back from a ride and someone asked where we went...we replied Box Canyon innocently. The head wrangler looked at the two of us and said, "WHAT!!?!" Apparently no one had ridden up box canyon before. It was a little steep.
Good thing it's 29 years later and I'm not quite so daringly stupid.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 11:27 am:
And now that it's 29 years later, I am buying my first NEW saddle and would like it to fit my horse...and I'd like to do things the RIGHT way, the safe way, for all concerned!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 2:00 pm:
It depends when you do the Canyon ride and from which rim as to wait list. I went about a week before the lodge at the north rim closed, in mid-October, and rode the same day or next day that I asked about it. I don't think there are as many people at the North Rim, most people seem to go to the South Rim. Imo, the North Rim is the prettiest.
Holly (and anyone) if you come out in August I can take you to the North Rim, it's only 3 hrs away and a beautiful drive. We sometimes just go there for the day.
Erika, beautiful picture! My son was in Hunan area a couple of years ago. He also hiked in Tiger Canyon, or something like that, which look dangerously beautiful. I'd love to see those places someday.
Love the wrangler stories...and the cowboy poetry was hilarious!!
Angie, I used to love rafting and canoeing. We used to run the Middle Fork of the Salmon in ID every summer. Great fun! I "DrOwned" on my last trip; got knocked out of a paddle boat and got stuck under a small falls...I was under water for over 10 mins. before they got me out. That kind of put a damper on my rafting. I still like canoes and water...but no rapids! I've always wanted to canoe the inland water ways in the MI area. Maybe someday...
Vickie, hope you're feeling better. At least you've had some good entertainment.
I hope you're spending some of your down time researching saddles!
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 7:02 pm:
Ja Angie....my posts do not follow protocol...I just don't seem to think in a straight line...more like a tree branch. One thing leads to another and...Dr. O, sorry.
Sara W, I have been looking and looking. I have some help coming next Monday to make sure I have the fit/measurements/etc. correct before I decide.
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Member:
amara
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Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 5:01 pm:
Nancy EC
I DrOve carriage horses for a company in downtown Fort Worth, Texas for several years. Still pinch hit when she's in a bind. Made TONS of money doing it. I could make my living on 10 hrs a week.
We had great horses, and my boss very safety conscious. Well, we had great horses after my boss and I got them going right!. But both of us very experienced drivers. We mostly used Percherons, although my first draft love is Belgians (and I have a Haflinger that I used to drive). Never had a vehicle wreck, tho a couple of close calls from bad (motor vehicle) drivers. We didnt let a driver out on the street who wasnt safe and responsible and properly trained by both of us. We've taken dignitaries thru festivals, tons of weddings, small and large, with sparklers/fireworks, you name it, etc.. We even got a bit part in the Broadway musical "Oklahoma". That part at the end where the couple leaves in the "surrey with the fringe on top".. well, they decided they wanted the real thing for that. And this was done in a major performance hall!... HUGE crowd!..FUN! (and looks great on a resume *LOL*)..
Nerves of steel?...well, I'm a cop now..so maybe?..its definately a different experience!
Vicki
ever heard of Live Oak saddles? I tried one when I rode with a reining guy when i first moved to Texas. I am a dressage rider mostly, and this was the first western saddle that felt like I really felt my horse. And very secure. To me, it was like "coming home". If i ever have a lot of discretionary income (*LOL*!!!!!!!) I'll buy one, even though I dont ride western a whole lot. But I have a bad back and bad knees, etc.. and that saddle didnt seem to bother any of that.. But of course we're all fit differently.
mel
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 6:33 pm:
Thanks Mel! I googled Live Oak and I didn't have much luck. TexTan has a "Live Oak" Trail saddle. And I found a couple of saddle shops which carry the Live Oak brand, but none could be seen online. I didn't find a website for Live Oak Saddlery. Hmmm. Is Live Oak a brand or a line within a particular brand?
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 6, 2009 - 9:37 am:
Phooey. My "help" who was supposed to be here Monday to help with the saddle fit didn't show. And then didn't show yesterday. He's my farrier. I had asked if I could buy an hour of his time after he is finished with my horses to help me with the saddle fit. Anyway, I'm going to have to change farriers. He appears to be highly qualified (according to his website credentials and word of mouth around here), but very undependable. In 12 months he has only shown up on the scheduled day once. More often than not he reschedules TWICE before he makes an appt. I am a decent customer I think. During one visit I told him I had joined HA to learn and he said he knew Dr. O and was involved with HA back in the early days of the site. ? I didn't know if he was pulling my leg or not. Anyway, another delay on saddle fit. The knee is better, but I wouldn't chance it just yet to ride. I may be posting to this thread for several years at this rate...
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 6, 2009 - 9:57 am:
Vicki I had a farrier like that too..he DrOve me nuts, BUT he was such a good farrier. I finally quit having him as did everyone else around here.
Really was a shame because he was excellent as far as shoeing and trimming a horse, he could do wonders for Hank right now.
Do you have any saddle shops around you. We have one about 20 mi from us that will let you trailer your horse in, try saddles on them and help you fit them.. You don't have to buy from them and you get an idea what size would fit well.
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Member:
lilcrow
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 6, 2009 - 12:37 pm:
Vicki, be careful about firing your farrier until you know you have one that is dependable AND good. Farriers are notorious for being late, not showing up, rescheduling, etc., so I'm afraid your guy isn't that unusual.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 7, 2009 - 11:38 am:
Re: Farriers
We've had four over the past ten years. All were tardy which I never ever groused about. I always likened my farrier to my ob/gyn...always a wait due to some emergency. No problem.
This fellow pales in comparison to anyone I know who is supposed to be a "businessman". When he is late it is because he is still at another farm/stable. That I understand. When he doesn't show up at all, it's always some life excuse that doesn't always ring true although I have never questioned him. I have never complained about MY wasted time. When I burn a day waiting on him, I'm not tending to my business which isn't the horse business, so it costs me $ and time to wait...) I don't think he really cares if people don't call back. He's just a poor planner. I wouldn't think it's me as a customer who he is trying to avoid. I am not demanding. I never try to tell him how to do his job. I always bow to his expertise--he is highly credentialed. I pay cash. I tip. My horses are always clean and ready to go, fly spray, etc. There are no annoying people around. The work area is clean, dust free, has large fans, etc. I have cold beverages of his choice. I give a generous Christmas cash gift. I offer to pay travel/fuel expenses which he declines--he drives 30 miles one way sometimes w/ no other farm along the route. I am a good audience and listen; he usually talks the entire time. I figure I can learn something! I am definitely not a "Know It All" customer who annoys the professionals who service my animals. I always offer to clean up and tell him now to worry about it (he swept up the first time he came). The Hafies have wonderful feet. They are not a chore. Once in awhile they will aggravate him being stubborn, but he explains it away as "They're Haflingers." The mare is hot shoed and never flinches. The Haflingers would let an army of insects sting them before they would ever lift a foot to kick/swat if someone is working on them. I don't think he wants to avoid my horses.
His son and my son have been in the baseball programs in our town. We know each other. Sigh. Don't know what else I could do to be a better customer. I have never called with an "emergency" and said come now!
Perhaps Denny shoes! Maybe I can pay him to travel the 2 hour round trip to do my horses. It would be well worth the extra $ in the $aved time...
The worst example of no shows was over the winter. Due Dec. 5. Rescheduled several times and finally showed up the middle of February. ! And it wasn't weather related.
Diane, I may just have to trailer the horse somewhere. It just wasn't logistically convenient this spring as the farm and business was way too busy to burn a day...
Now if I could have back some of the "burned" days I've spent waiting on the farrier...hahaha!
Well, there. I got that off my chest. I think I will email Denny and see if he shoes and/or if he can recommend a farrier a bit more dependable.
This is where it would be wonderful if I was a life time horse person and I could shoe my own. That will never happen. I am totally dependent on others for foot care.
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 7, 2009 - 12:43 pm:
KaSheeessh Vikki
Can I be your farrier? Sounds like thats the cushy-est job to be had! You tip, clean up and give Christmas gifts??
try the AFA sight. I had trouble atfirst but found the nearest CJF and called and asked him if he knew anyone and gave me the guy Im with now (of whom I really love)
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 7, 2009 - 4:17 pm:
Well Leslie, that's what I think! I'm not a bad customer. I emailed you, so if you get a strange email from Indiana Vicki, that's me!
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 9, 2009 - 9:06 pm:
Bummer, no show May 27, June 1, June 5, and didn't return the msg I left June 7. ? So no saddle fit yet.
I did check Denny's site out again and it does list saddle fitting. yay for that. However, we need to get on Denny's case, because his 2009 clinic schedule is not posted--or if it is I didnt' find it, just the 2008.
Too bad farrier work wasn't listed on Denny's site!
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 14, 2010 - 8:39 pm:
Update on Saddle Shopping:
I followed HA advice and put off buying a new saddle since my knee was fouled up among other things. Diva mare had a couple lame issues in spring and summer 09 and I just used the saddle I have which fit.
So, fast forward to early spring 2010. I tried unsuccessfully to get two more folks here to saddle fit. No show. Cancellations. Third person I contacted was Meleta Brown, barrel racer, saddle fitter, and former owner of Brown's Speed and Action (or something like that)--a tack shop in northern Indiana. She designed a barrel tree that Crates picked up and it's the Meleta Brown Freedom series which also has a trail saddle model. Well, she was set up to come in early March and she had to cancel. I emailed about getting a Loaner Saddle shipping, but it never has arrived. So, looks like I struck out for the third time on saddle fitters. I made up my mind in March to attend the April Equine Affaire in Ohio and bring a trail saddle home from the trade show and to try and not make A FEDERAL CASE out of it. I attended a saddle fitting clinic in March and at least felt a wee bit smarter.
Stagecoach West tack out of New York always has a big booth with lots of saddles. And of course there were several other tack shops there: Rod's from Ohio, Keith Saddlery, and maybe four other smaller ones. Anyway. I bought a Circle Y Trail saddle "Omaha" model which is on a Flex 2 Tree. I got what they call Wide which should be Full Quarter Horse Bars. Of course, there is no one universal measurement for saddlery so who knows. For $1500 I got the saddle, headstall, reins, and breast collar including tax. ANd brought it home. I haven't tried it on Diva Mare yet believe it or not, I have been too busy and it is sitting here in the kitchen on a bar between two bar stools at the kitchen counter. I'm a hillbilly. I have 15 days to return it if it doesn't fit. It is lightweight 28 lbs--which wasn't really a consideration; I just wanted a safe, sturdy construction that is comfortable for Diva mare and me. So we'll see if it turns out to be TOO light. I am not doing competitive trail so I didn't need a 35-50 lb saddle to drag logs or anything. And I have heard good and bad about the Flex 2 Tree concept. But I gave it a shot.
If and when I can ever book a trainer/lesson giver, I'll worry about other saddlery. But for my limited purposes at this point, a trail saddle is sufficient. I did get a model that has a short, rounded skirt in the back for Diva's short back...hope it's short enough. I tried to find a "butterfly" skirt on a trail, but found only 3 and didn't like other things about those saddles so I wound up with the Circle Y Omaha Trail saddle.
That's the update ladies.
I'd still like to sit in a Ladies Crates Reiner with a narrow twist. Someday.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 14, 2010 - 10:44 pm:
Vicki, I was saddle shopping online...dreaming again and I really liked the looks of that one, I wish I were rich somedays!!
I have one of the first flex lite trail saddles Circle Y came out with and have Been VERY happy with it. It has held up well and fits just about any horse I use it on. I have a 16 in. seat and would really prefer a 15 in. I have way to much wiggle room in a 16 in. I also prefer a roughout seat and mine is slick. The saddle itself is great. Let me know how you like this one, I have been trying to save up.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 15, 2010 - 3:06 pm:
I'm glad you thought the saddle looked alright Diane. It is walnut oil which is pretty dark (my other two are lighter and I wanted a dark one!) and the seat is slick but not as slick as most. I thought it was rough out at first but it isn't. "Apache" seat is what CY calls it. I think it's between slick and roughout? Anyway. Mine is a 16". I think my 15" days are long gone. I'm jealous you have wiggle room.
I am also glad to hear you have been happy with yours and have gotten good use out of it. Sure wish you lived next door and you could tell me if it fits or not...
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Thursday, May 6, 2010 - 10:10 am:
My barefoot trimmer was here yesterday. She kindly checked the saddle fit and pad fit and said she thought they were good.
first pad I bought was way, way too long. this pad is a barrel pad and seems to fit the round, short skirt on the trail saddle and Diva mare's short back.
Hope when i'm actually IN the saddle and have put some time on it, that it "still" fits.
So, It was almost a year after I started looking, that I wound up with a new saddle.
I'm slow. Learning curve is very large.
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Member:
dsibley
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Posted on Thursday, May 6, 2010 - 1:48 pm:
I think you'll be very happy with the CY trail saddle. I have three, and am looking at a fourth...one for the draft cross who just keeps growing and growing. Do you know if they come with extension ladders? She's three years old and already 16.3". Yikes!!
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Friday, May 7, 2010 - 10:53 am:
Holy smokes! 16.3 and 3? We once had a leggy, long necked QH who was 16.2 and I thought he was a giant! I think Diva Mare is tall at 15.2 15 would probably be more my speed!
Glad you like your CYs. Hope I do after I've been in it many hours.
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