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Discussion on Cantering to a different drummer?
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Member:
36541
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Posted on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 - 3:37 pm:
Hi all,
I have a 6yo Connemara who is well under saddle except for at the canter. She switches in and out of cross-canter at all speeds. She even does it in the pasture when cantering with the herd, and has done so for a few years. She doesn't seem uncomfortable with it at all, but if you've ever ridden the cross, you can believe that I am! She is a little croup high, but this inclination has persisted during all of her growth phases. I had thought she would grow out of it as she got stronger and more mature, but it is really limiting my options for enjoying her, no matter what the discipline. Is this what they mean when a horse is advertised as "perfect for driving"!! Any ideas or exercises to suggest? Thanks, Stacy
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 - 5:15 pm:
Hi Stacy,
Ugh that cross canter business is such a pain, so uncomfortable to ride. I've seen it on young horses that were having trouble staying round and balanced, but seems to me when they do it at liberty it's more to do with how they are built and much harder to fix.
The only think I can think that would help would be lots and lots and lots and lots of ground work at the canter, correcting each time she cross canters, to try and build up that muscle memory, doing big circles on level ground.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 - 7:16 pm:
Hi Stacey! Our black stallion used to do this. Boy, is it weird feeling to ride! After ruling out any medical conditions we started working him a lot over ground poles, trot poles, and other work where he had to really work his hind end. Once he gained a lot of strength in the rear, he stopped doing this.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Wednesday, May 6, 2009 - 10:45 am:
Crosscanter in pasture often has to do with the way the horse is build. Apart from the advices above I lunged a lot in slow canter opening and closing circles to teach them.
Or breed her to a TB Stacey! That will give a nice eventer!
Jos
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Member:
jjrichar
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Posted on Wednesday, May 6, 2009 - 2:24 pm:
Stacy,
Is it possible for you to post some pics of her standing from the side and/or a video of her cantering? Just to be clear, because my terminology may be different, is she Counter-cantering or Cross-firing? Does she do it more one direction than the other? Does she take off wrong or does she start off right and then switch over at some point?
If you are referring to crossfiring (being on the right lead in the front and the wrong lead in the back)... I have seen young horses do this as well as more mature horses, but it was something that pretty much passed as they became more athletic and muscled up as their training progressed. Usually it is the result of a less than athletic back end. Could be confirmation or it could just be her being a little lazy and having worked into bit of a habit. Lots of yielding hindquarters and bending exercises may help her wake her back end up. At the stop pivot her around her front end both directions, then yield at the walk, trot and then eventually at the canter. Also when picking up the canter, yield her hindquarters inside first then ask for the canter. That way she is almost forced to take the right lead in the rear. When she does crossfire, I would say do some sort of correction immediately... yield her hindquarters again and bend her front towards the outside so that it becomes really uncomfortable for her to continue to crossfire. You may need to use a crop to tap her on the flank or rear to say, 'Hey wake that up back there!' If she doesn't switch back then bring her to a stop and possibly back and then start her again. As with all training, make what you don't want uncomfortable and what you do want easy, and persistence is the key. At some point, I would think she will have to get the idea.
Good luck!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, May 7, 2009 - 8:27 am:
Hello Stacy,
Having owned TWH and Paso's for decades I am well acquainted with the cross canter in the green horse. The normal foot fall of a canter, essentially a broken diagonal gait, can be quite challenging to horses with naturally occurring lateral gaits.
It can be overcome but it requires patience and time. I think you will have a little easier time with a trotting horse assuming no lameness. I showed this to Janette who has spent last year training a PF out of this problem. She will post when she sits down at her computer later.
DrO
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Member:
36541
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Posted on Thursday, May 7, 2009 - 8:43 am:
Thanks everyone for your feedback. I have tried the big circles and some various corrections, but as Riley is a hot-headed gurl, the problem accelerates if she gets feisty or worried. I likely have not done enough trot poles in sequence of more than three or four, so will restart that exercise. I thought long slow canters on the grass runway(1/2 mile) would be the answer, but she doesn't have a natural long slow gait, so I have to either take back or turn to slow her, and again the inclination reappears.
The first pic is recent, the next is at two months I think. As you can see, she has a shorter than desirable neck, and a fairly upright shoulder. She is croup high by an inch - the line apparently can finish very late even in front. I owned the mare and saw the stallion and both had balanced frames. I love her personality, and want to find a way for us to be a successful team. I bred her for eventing, but we've got to have a canter! BTW, she has many speeds of trot, including a horrible "tolt" if she is overexcited!
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Thursday, May 7, 2009 - 10:10 am:
She's cute Stacey, I bet she will even out more over time, she's only 6. And I wouldn't worry about her neck, she carries it well.
One thing to think about with your canter work on the ground, if you are working her on a lunge line, sometimes horses that are hotter as you describe get discombobulated on a lunge line and drift out behind then half change leads to cross canter. A round pen if you have one can be very helpful so they can work loose and find their own balance.
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Member:
jjrichar
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Posted on Thursday, May 7, 2009 - 10:53 am:
Wow Stacy, she looks like a nice mare to me. I really wouldn't consider her being a small amount higher in the hind a big deal as it is barely noticeable and a pretty common trait in a lot of horses. Yes in a perfect world, the neck could stand to be a tad longer, but it's by no means a bad neck and she looks as though she has a strong front end and nice shoulders to support it. The only thing that I could maybe attribute to your problem (and that's a big maybe) is she looks as though her underline may be a tiny bit longer than her topline. It could just be the pictures but in any case, I don't think it is enough to cause a problem. All in all, I don't think you have a confirmation problem to blame as she looks like a pretty correct, well balanced mare. 
I think you just need to get her using that hind end. If you do the exercises mentioned above, persistently, I think you will see a big improvement.
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Member:
realtor
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Posted on Thursday, May 7, 2009 - 11:03 am:
Hi,
I did have an Arab who had the same problem! I found cantering her in two point helped the most. I rode her for a couple months like that and then slowly started to increase the pressure on her back. It worked for me but as everyone knows all horses are different!!
LeeAnn
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Thursday, May 7, 2009 - 11:37 pm:
Lots of good advice here. A couple additional thoughts: make absolutely sure that your balance in the canter is steady-- on hot horses, or those who haven't developed good rhythm, it's easy to find yourself out of position (weight shifting to the outside, or inside leg coming back), and it may contribute to the tendency to crossfire.
I would tend to do shorter periods of canter and bring her back to a balanced trot every time she cross fires-- re-balance yourself and the mare, and ask again. Make sure that she is positioning herself correctly (not throwing her haunches out, for example), and only ride as many steps as she can do. Transitions are great for strengthening, and she will improve.
Very few horses will cross-fire when jumping, so some small obstacles may help her manage her own balance.
I would not suggest more than 3-4 trot poles in sequence-- they are very hard work, especially for a horse who is displaying some green tendencies.
The cross-firing is likely a symptom of a lack of strength, balance, and straightness, and should resolve as you slowly and correctly build her up.
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Friday, May 8, 2009 - 9:41 am:
May I add that you can help the canter by working at the trot.. Like Elk said, she needs strength conditioning first.. Work on the trot for a couple of weeks/ months .. Transitions/ Transitions/ TRANSITIONS.. ground poles but again never more then 3-4 .. Halts / Walk / back up / trot on.. Strengthen her hind end THEN work on the canter..
Good luck... this takes time and patience..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
36541
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Posted on Friday, May 8, 2009 - 7:26 pm:
Well, an interesting ride with Riley this evening. With all of your comments in mind, I chose to ride her in my dressage saddle, and did a lot of leg yield and turn on the forehand in warmup. When we began the canter, I started with a big 40m circle in the open, then decided to take her on a canter tour of the 50 acres. She did a little cross-cantering, but was more interested in where we might be going next and the gait was much more consistent, though still quick. I'm not sure why I hadn't done this before. The new thing today was that whenever I would look toward the new direction of travel, she would immediately change the lead without being asked, getting it on the back as well 80% of the time. Hmmmm, sensitizing the hind end certainly perked things up - you have to be four steps ahead of this mare in your training plans!! Thanks for all the thoughtful feedback - I'll keep the thread updated...Stacy
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Member:
jjrichar
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Posted on Saturday, May 9, 2009 - 10:51 am:
Wow Stacy that's great! Congrats! Keep up the good work and keep us posted. Oh and thanks for introducing me to the Connemara... what a wonderful breed of horse!
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