|
|
Discussion on Possible to alter urination behavior?
|
| Author |
Message |
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 11:29 am:
Is is possible to change where a mare pees? Or to train her to pee in another spot?
We have two mares that share a pen and they have made a really bad mess in one corner of their pen. There used to be a gelding in the pen who started peeing and pooping in one corner and made a big, smelly hole. When he was gone we filled in the hole and spread sand across the stop thinking the problem was over.
Now, the two mares both pee in this spot and it is a yucky mess once again. To make matters worse, one mare seems to prefer to stand in the spot, and from the looks of her has even lain in it. The pen is cleaned at least once a day, and I've filled it in several times, covered it with cat litter, stall freshner, etc. all to no avail. Do other people have this problem and if so, how do you get them to stop and get rid of the mess? Fly season is going to be starting and will be a real attractant for them. In all my years of horse-keeping, I've never had this problem.
|
Member:
hollyw
|
Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 12:29 pm:
Sara, there are different ways of looking at this problem.
One of the ways to look at it is, when fly season starts, you'll know where most of them are and can use insecticide in that corner (or automatic fly swatters, or fly bottles, or caged birds, or neighborhood children who are desperate to earn spending money . . .).
I thought we had a discussion, once, in which we posted different ways to attract horses to pee in one spot. I think one of the ways was to pile shavings outside the stall in one place . . . and I don't know if that is what you are looking for (because they you'd just have another soft, wet spot in a different area), but maybe you can put some kind of odoriferous deterrent in the mushy spot and provide a different, more attractive place for the mares to relieve themselves.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 1:46 pm:
Maybe I can dump some of those fly parasites in that area?
My biggest concern is the mare that keeps standing in it! I hate to say this, but she's not the sharpest tack in the box, or at least she under utilizes her brain. she has deep cravaces (bars) and I'm afraid of her getting thrush. I clean her feet out once a day, but no one does it when I'm not home for up to a week at a time.
I've thought of digging the area out and filling with DG then sand on top, or digging it out and putting in a little septic tank there with a grate on top covered by heavy mesh screening, then course gravel on top. Wasn't there an article somewhere once about someone who had horses trained to urinate in something like that? Of course, if I go to all that work, I want to be darn sure the horses used the thing!
|
Member:
dres
|
Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 2:39 pm:
Sara simple answer .. MOVE THEM.. 
no really i am battling the same problem with my 3 year old that pee's in one spot near the WELL! I have not been able to move HIS spot other then to put him out in pasture...soon he will be out there 24/7... now he is on it 6 hours... which does help the pee spot..
Good luck.. 
On the first day God created horses , on the second day he painted them with spots..
|
Member:
stek
|
Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 2:46 pm:
Sara, my guess is that if you are topping the spot with sand or something else soft, the mares are choosing this as the least splashy area on which to pee; one of ours if confined in a stall will pile up her hay to pee on so she doesn't get her legs wet. Ugh, annoying, but I can't say I blame her!
If your main concern is the nasty factor of standing around in pee, you might try adding some sweet pdz or other kind of lime to the area, the sweet pdz comes in large gravel-sized particles that last a long time and depending on the size of the spot and how much you use might even provide an elevated surface for the pee to drain through. I have to say though I love your idea for a mini-septic area in that spot!! If you try it I'd love to hear how it works out...
|
Member:
annes
|
Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 3:25 pm:
Sara, how about parking a wheel barrow there and see what happens?? That would be easy cleanup! (grin) I am the one who posted that my gelding frequently backs up to the wheelbarrow and poops....but I've never found pee in it.
|
Member:
lilo
|
Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 6:03 pm:
Sara - my mare has a favorite pee spot in her corral. I use the stove pellets there, but after some time it gets very smelly (I have also thought of doing a "mini septic tank", but have not figured out how). Periodically I dig out all the urine soaked pellets and remove them, use lime or PDZ and put fresh pellets down. In fact - that job is overdue right now.
In the summer, however, she frequently urinates in the stall and I really hate that - because then the gelding imitates her. I put in rubber mats and don't use bedding in the stalls because I want to discourage urinating in there. Seems to work better in the winter.
Good luck,
Lilo
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 6:27 pm:
Lilo, if I can still find stove pellets this time of year, that might be a good idea. At least they'd absorb the urine and I could dig them out easily and replace them.
Shannon, the entire pen is soft sand! They have made a hole in this spot and actually I don't think there's much sand left there, or it's all become compacted due to all the urine. Logically, it seems almost any other spot would be better to use. I have tried PDZ. I use the stuff in my stalls on top of the mats and under the shavings. I love the stuff. However, it doesn't help this situation.
Moving them would be good, Ann! Maybe down the road to the farrier's barn! Wheelbarrow? One of them would probably manage to cut her leg off in it somehow!
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2009 - 8:02 am:
Hello Sara, I have heard of folks training their horses to pee on command, whistling I believe. I have not actually seen the process but believe it to be a "shaped associative" behavior. It starts with identifying typical times the horse urinates so you can be around at that time. You then begin whistling in anticipation of the horse urinating and stop once he starts or perhaps when he is done. In time the horse associates the whistle with urinating and you can induce urination by whistling. Sara, I have to say I don't know if this stuff is true or not.
DrO
|
Member:
ajudson1
|
Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2009 - 8:30 am:
I posted this before; about knowing of a place where there were tractor tires in the ground, and the horses were trained to go there. I think the owner started from day one, leading them to that as soon as she thought they were going to go. Mares and geldings, always walked to the tires to go, it was amazing I thought.
So, what if you buried a tire there, let it remain their "toilet" and maybe the tire would discourage them from laying there? Might be less of a headache than trying to train them to go some place else.
Just curious, what type of personality does Little Miss Piggy have?
I have a mare who turns her stall into a pig pen within hours. She is young and has an anxious personality. I let them in every afternoon to have their midday feed, and she pees on her hay no matter where I put it, and walks around so much that everything is soaked. The wasted hay makes me want to cry, and she is the one who needs the extra hay. Short of building a manger...
And if I leave the 2 stalls open to the dry lot, she goes in them too!
Extra large pampers perhaps?
I suppose for your mare, maybe putting shock collars on them; I've actually heard of people doing that to fix undesirble behaviors. Not my cup of tea though.
|
Member:
cheryl
|
Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2009 - 9:35 am:
The whistling works. An instructor I had in Wa State had me whistle in 4 descending notes - over and over and over - when Fox was getting ready to urinate - when she was through - praise - used it before going on a trail ride - loading into a trailer and before putting her in her stall in the evening - never spent enough time trying to fix her on a spot to use but I'm sure it could be done - if you just want to eliminate the odor I would dig hole - deep - fill it with large rock and cover the top with small gravel - then wash it with a good soaking once or twice a week - Course there is always the probability that as soon as you do that - they will pick another spot to use 
Cheryl
|
Member:
erika
|
Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2009 - 9:55 am:
Sorry, no pee answers, but for you Angie, when I was a kid and boarded my horse, the BO used plastic laundry baskets that he fastened to the stall wall to hold hay. You can keep the hay corralled and there is less waste. Get the kind with lots of holes so in case of dust, or God forbid--pee, it doesn't trap it all.
|
Member:
jjrichar
|
Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2009 - 10:23 am:
I have a gelding that pees in the same spot of his stall and it creates a nasty, smelly hole just like you described. I tried everything like you.... Filling it in, sweet pdz, etc. I use pelleted bedding (like Equine Fresh from Tractor Supply Co) which helps absorb and cut down the smell but eventually I had to put rubber mats in his stall. At least now I can easily scoop up all the mess and not dig a huge hole doing so. I do know that horses (esp. mares) love to pee in loose soil where they don't get splashed. If you put a mat over that area I have a feeling they may move to another spot or at least it would keep the one from laying in it.
And as a side note... all of my horses, without fail, pee in unison every time I walk into the barn to feed them their dinner. It's crazy. LOL
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2009 - 10:40 am:
Jennifer finally, someone whose horses are crazier than mine!
I like the mat idea,mainly because I happen to have some old ones lying around. I'm going to try that first, then I'll try the tire. I've got to leave town for a few days. As soon as I get back I'll dig out the smelly stuff, scrape some clean sand in there and put a mat on top.
I have a friend who does endurance riding and her horses pee on command,so I know it can be done. I'm afraid I just don't have the time to stand out there and wait, and knowing one of those mares she's try and out wait me! Thanks for the ideas!
Angie, Beaulimazar, aka Miss Piggy, is very dominant, even in old age, but usually behaves beautifully for me to the point of obey like a dog would to stay, stop, come, etc. She gets absolute obedience from the rest of the animals with just giving them "the look."
She isn't messy in her stall, except for always trying to pee the instant you put new shavings in. She can barely wait for you to open the bag! I have to trick her by cleaning then putting in shavings while she is distracted by eating her Senior, and even then, if she's almost done with it she'll stop eating to pee on the shavings. I have two really messy horses, both on the younger side, who manage to strew manure all over their stalls. The rest seem to like to poop more or less in one location, or at least don't spread each individual ball around so it take half an hour to find them all when you're cleaning.
|
Member:
stek
|
Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2009 - 10:50 am:
Mats sound like a good idea Jennifer!
I can also attest to the whistling to pee thing, and you're right Dr. O it does start as an associative thing. I have seen it on the track, after a race horses are walked till they pee to collect urine for drug tests, and the whistling is associated.
Angie for my mare that is a hay pee-er the only thing that works (a little) is giving her hay in a net. She still pulls as much out to pee on as she can but it's not quite as much waste that way.
|
Member:
vickiann
|
Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2009 - 11:57 am:
A friend of mine has trained hers to pee on command but I also recall a friend who improved a similar situation by digging a hole plus kind of a drainage ditch away from the constantly wet area.
Then she filled the entire drainage area with small/medium-sized rocks before re-filling the wet area of the stall.
This served to carry the urine out and away.
The soil she started with was also primarily sand.
|
Member:
paardex
|
Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2009 - 5:34 pm:
I used the mats, it splashed and most of them don't like that but if they still pee and stand there the trush risk will be less I think.
Jos
|
Member:
cgby1
|
Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2009 - 8:26 pm:
Sara,
You could rent an auger and dig it out as deep as possible then fill it with 3/4" rock. If you put sand over it you might want to put landscape cloth over it first or the sand will fill in between the rock and it won't drain. You can also remove the contaminated soil with clean soil, then put several inches of sand all over the pen. if you do I recommend that you feed out of a manger. I made feeders over 15 years ago that work great to keep hay off the ground. They are made out of plastic barrels and I sold them to a lot of people. My vet even sent a lady to buy one because her horse was eating off the ground and he was treating it for colic. They have drain holes in each end. I do need to clean it, I hadn't noticed how dirty it had gotten.
Cynthia
 
|
|
|
