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  Discussion on One sided training?
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Member:
maggienm

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 9, 2009 - 1:37 am:

The new horse I have has only been handled on one side.
She actually would get quite upset if I tried to do more than brush her on the 'wrong' side.
So of course, I have spent quite a bit of time over there on the wrong side.
I have been doing a combination of round penning and lunging. (My round pen isn't quite finished so I have to keep the lunge line on)
It took one session just to convince her that the world wouldn't end if she walked around me the wrong way!!
She does get anxious and tries to run from her problems. I am trying to really break things down so she doesn't feel overwhelmed.
Shortly after I had brought her home she had a real melt down and flipped out, pulled back, ran away bucking.
She did it once again and then again tonight she had a melt down.
We were going the darn wrong way, we are still just walking, trying to stay calm. On the gate side she tried to speed up a bit, I asked her to slow, her response was to swing her butt out and go sideways, when I asked her to keep walking forward(voice cue, body language and gently raising the whip arm a few inches) she blew!!!
Ripping around the corral, bucking hard. When I tried to pull her up she would temporarily stop and take off again. She did this several times before she stopped her freak show.
She was wound up and anxious but after some reassurance I convinced her to walk off. It took several rounds (on a much shorter line) to get her walking calmly and somewhat relaxed.
In addition to pen work I have been doing much ground work as well.
I have been riding her at a walk only, her stop and go is there but not much else.
When I ride her she seems to think if she bends her neck she can't turn, esp on her stiff side.

My questionDo you think a horse could really only be broke on one side?? I truly don't know what set her off the very first time but every other time she has freaked or just gotten worried I am on her wrong side.
She isn't mean, although when she panicks(which is really how if appears-like she is overwhelmed and doesn't know how to cope- her brain shuts off and she would surely run right over me if I got in the way.
Part of what really bothers me is that we can go through a whole session and she seems fine, I can do quite a bit with her, like clip her bridle path, she is good with her feet, have ridden her several times. I try to stay very consistent and give lots of hand and voice encouragement to build her confidence.
Then she has a meltdown. If I had pushed or tried something really new then I would say it was my fault for pushing but tonight was really a review of what we have been doing. I had planned a short sweet session, ha.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 9, 2009 - 6:22 am:

Interesting Lori, when I started back working with Hank he was a freak going left. I did put it in out Liberty training thread how he seemed to panic..(it was in his eyes)and just totally loose it going left.

The way I got him over it (and it was one of my biggest challenges with him on the ground) was when I asked him to go left, even if he took off like a wild banshee, I would bring him in almost immediately, and praise him. Soon as I got a trot (2 steps) even tho it was a panicky trot, again I brought him in and praised him.

One baby try was immediately rewarded and then we did something else he enjoyed (going right) In other words approach and retreat worked very well with him. When we did our ground work I would have him go left twice during our session, half a circle...he chose the speed, he got praised and that was it!

This worked well for Hank, he goes left wonderfully now and actually seems to prefer it at this point. Go figure
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 9, 2009 - 8:47 am:

Lori,

Was she handled only on one side, or did she have some bad experience on the other side? I swear horses have memories that never, ever, forget.

For your safety, and hers, she's needs to overcome her insecurities on the wrong side.

Tango is like that, and I've always done everything from both sides since I got him as a yearling. I have no clue why he thinks everything on his right side is out to kill him, but it makes him a dangerous horse. Like your mare, he's not consistently "worried" on the "wrong" side, but when he is worried, it's a none thinking REaction...and it's all out!

If you get RFDTV, Julie Goodnight just had a wonderful episode on about saddling a fearful horse, doing advance and retreat. If you can find that show, her methods would be helpful; doesn't just apply to saddling. Baby BABY steps on the wrong side, advance, and retreat as soon as she shows any sign of doing what is correct, and if she over reacts, ignore it.

Hard to explain...Good luck.
Member:
maggienm

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 9, 2009 - 11:45 am:

Thanks for the thoughts. How is Tango when you ride him?
It is one thing to ride a green horse you know might come apart but to ride Jekyll and Hyde is quite another.
The thing is her background is sketchy. She was sold to me as a pretty solid riding horse.

I know a lot of people in my area don't spend any time on ground work, they just get the saddle on and ride.

Unfortunately I don't get RFDTV. I will check out her site, maybe I can stream it.

What really is bugging me is the inconsistency.
We have had two successful lessons going both ways. Even started going over ground poles.
Yesterday was going to be a short 20 min walk both ways, end happy, relaxed.
I am still just working at the walk to try to help her learn to work and relax; that she doens't have to be worried all the time.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 10, 2009 - 8:18 am:

Lori,

I'm not riding Tango right now. I had my first experience on him about 2 years ago, scared 10 years off my life he reacted so strongly. Been on him 3-4 more times since, he did much better, going along like an old plow horse at first, like he forgot I was on him. Then he reacted again, to my movement on his back, on his right side, and we were off to the rodeo again.

So, until I am feel 110% certian he calm & he is THINKING instead of reacting, I will not get back on him.

A couple of days ago, he freaked out because I had him tacked up, and the reins were looped over the saddle horn. He noticed the ends flapping on his right side, and I ended up diving out of the round pen to save my neck.

I am always starting over with this guy is seems...we get so far, and it's 2 steps back. Start over. Wait, and wait to see him relax & accept.

I hope you don't have such an extreme case on your hands. I would start all over like you've never saw this horse before, and she had NO training at all.

BTW, I believe it sometimes takes months for a horse to adjust to a new home, and new people. I'll never again buy a new horse, and ride that horse as soon as it comes home.

Good luck,
Stay safe
Always have your helmet on around this one!
Member:
stek

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 10, 2009 - 10:30 am:

Lori, the advice above is good (especially about always wearing your helmet .. you only get one brain!). In my experience it's absolutely possible for a horse to seem quite trained when handled from one side and not at all when handled from the other. Many people just don't think to put the effort into doing everything on both sides, and some horses are naturally very one-sided.

I'm curious what kind of training this mare has had? Casual riding or anything more formal? As Angie mentions above it's always a good idea to start with a new horse as though they don't know anything, and work them up through the levels as quickly or slowly as they are able. With a new horse I never make assumptions and like to test everything I intend to do with them right off the bat to look for weak points in their training. It's more than worth it to me to spend a week or so reviewing the remedial stuff, that way you aren't taken completely by surprise.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 10, 2009 - 11:42 am:

Horses have a two halved brain and must be taught the same thing from both sides. If they are taught something is safe or o.k. on one side they won't feel it is safe or o.k. on the other side until they learn that it is. Information isn't transfered or shared. Once the articles come back up on this site I think there are some articles or threads that talk about this and explain it better than I can.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 10, 2009 - 1:00 pm:

Just wanted to add I've had some hair raising experiences trying out horses to purchase, as well as some interesting things happening when first getting a new horse home.

It takes as much time as it takes for each individual horse to adjust to new people and places; IMHO there isn't a horse out there that I would ever hurry up and buy without seeing the horse many different times, and I prefer to purchase on a trail basis...hard to do, but nice if the seller agrees.

If you were buying a horse from me, I'd insist that you come back more than once to spend time with that horse.

I know that don't help you now, you have the new horse already, but just want to rehash the importance of taking as much time as it takes. Sometimes it helps to look through the horses eyes, ya know?

Can you give us some more feed back on her? How long have you had her, her age, did she come from a place with other horses, do you have other horses, etc...that kind of info. Maybe other members will see something to add with more backround.
Member:
lhenning

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 10, 2009 - 2:51 pm:

It sounds like the lack of ground work is showing. Steps have been skipped, like sacking out on both sides. I think when you are on her left and she puts up her fuss, she is telling you she doesn't trust you on her weaker side. She is also trying to dominate you so she doesn't have to do what she does not like doing. So trust and respect are the basic issues.

Trust takes time and as they say above, baby steps and consistency are key. Respect can be achieved with good groundwork. Do you have experience here? I also like Julie Goodnight but there are a lot of good teachers out there. The important thing is to have a program to follow that builds through lessons. Your body language tells them so much. Never move your feet, always make her move hers. Disengaging her hindquarters, and keeping her out of your space are also good ways to show your dominance. Too much to write here, but you get the gist.

I guess if this were my horse, (and I have one who's given me the same crap years ago), I would ask and if she throws her fit, let her. Always stay calm and assertive, but don't back down either. Keep asking for her to move left and when she does, release her, praise her. Timing the release is so important and we often push a little longer than we should.

Are you fearful? Does she sense she can dominate you because you are breathing quicker or moving differently? Horses are very perceptive of these signs and then take advantage of our vulnerable state. That can explain why the behavior keeps continuing, and it can escalate to where you are really afraid of her and she knows it. Bad place to get. Work on staying very, very calm all the time.

Last, be very careful of what you are inadvertently rewarding. Sometimes when horses react so powerfully they then get what they want from us and it only encourages them to try again. Think about what she wants. For example, she does not want you on her left so she throws her fit and you begin working her on the right, you have rewarded her behavior. I'm not saying this is what you are doing, only to think about it when you work her and make sure it doesn't happen. An easy mistake to make.

I have a feeling this horse just needs to learn manners and to know her place in her new home and she will become the nice riding horse you want.

Good luck,
Linda
Member:
lhenning

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 10, 2009 - 2:59 pm:

I just re-read your original post and one other thought came to me. This was told to me by a poster here on HA many years ago and it stuck.

You speak of her freaking out after doing the same routine, no real reason that set her off as far as you can tell.

All the things you are doing with her in the roundpen or whereever are asking something of her. She is being good and walking, she is standing still for grooming, she is moving and turning when you ask, then you ask for one more thing and she blows. This guys just said to remember that all these things we ask are making the horse do something they would rather not be doing. They would rather eat hay, right? So it's all pressure to them. Pressure needs release and if they don't get it from us, they take it. Perhaps shorter sessions would help?

Just a thought.

Linda
Member:
maggienm

Posted on Thursday, Jun 11, 2009 - 12:23 pm:

Linda, You are right about the pressure.

I have gotten the impression that she is feeling too much pressure.
let the horse guide you It isn't that I went to fast, just too fast/too much-not enough break for her at this/that time.

She is now much better on her right, interestingly she is almost better behaved and more flexible on her right (which was the 'wrong' side) than on the left/good side.

She was trained for the racetrack as a youngster but never actually raced.
Someone just told me that (at least around here)track horses are only handled on the left side, blankets, hoofs or course all tacking, is done from the left side.

One thing that is encouraging is she is staying friendly in fact getting more friendly even after the blow up sessions.
Member:
hollyw

Posted on Friday, Jun 12, 2009 - 10:16 am:

Lori, I tried to e-mail you privately yesterday and got a notice that the e-mail was delayed . . . then was told that it was undeliverable. Is the e-mail address in your profile correct?

I'll resend it if you send me your e-mail address. I had it in my address book at one time, but it got lost over the years, I think.
Thanks
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