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Discussion on Head Tossing With and With OUT Bit
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 14, 2009 - 9:00 am:
My mare Willow, 20 year Arab, has started severely tossing her head. I tried a regular snaffle, and a side pull, no bit, and the behavior was the same. On a loose rein she will flip her head so much that the right rein ends up on the left side of her head!
Now, she's always been sensitive to everything, but this is really extreme.
I grabbed her tongue, and checked her teeth. Before her last float, last summer, she had razor sharp edges along her molars, and sores in her cheeks. At that time, she was avoiding the bit by running sideways. From what I could see/feel, I'd say she could use having her teeth done, but I don't notice anything serious in her mouth.
No response to my poking and probing along her outer cheeks, jaw, etc.
My question is:
If she's acting the same with the side pull as the bit, what should I be considering to be the problem? If teeth, a serious issue with teeth way in the back?
No DrOpping of food, or any signs of discomfort when eating.
I have a friend who may still have dental equipment, hoping she can stop in and we can really check her teeth good. Equine dentists show up here twice a year, so I have a looong wait if I need one.
Thanks for any thoughts; I know this head tossing subject shows up a lot on here.
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 14, 2009 - 9:32 am:
Hey, Angie,
Sometimes, in the other posts, I think the head tossing has turned out to be a light sensitivity.
Maggie does it constantly all during fly season. Even if a fly threatens to land on her nose, her head tosses violently. Several times, the reins have ended up on the wrong side of her neck, or she has worn the lead line between her ears.
I would try lots of fly spray on her nose and face to see if that will stop the problem today.
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 14, 2009 - 10:06 am:
Angie, have you checked her ears? I'm wondering if there is something lodged in one, or a bug or bug bite that is causing her irritation.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 14, 2009 - 10:11 am:
Hmmm...I saw the posts about allergies, not light. I'll try riding her with the fly mask on, that should address bugs and light. I have noticed she's really touchy on her right ear also, and the right side seems to be the problem. Ear, eye, teeth...there is some pain issue some wheres! It came on suddenly it what I can't figure out. Teeth, in my experience, seems to start with a mild problem, and then gets worse, at least with her.
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 14, 2009 - 11:15 am:
Good call, Fran. I was thinking "tick." Eeyore had one in her right ear last year, and it took weeks for her to let me touch her ears again after killing the tick with bug/tick spray.
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Member:
jjrichar
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 14, 2009 - 11:30 am:
Definitely check her ears... ticks, debris, etc. may be the culprit. This may require a vet coming out to sedate and looking and cleaning way down in her ears too.
If that is ruled out, you might look into head shaker synDrOme. I believe there are articles on this site discussing it.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 14, 2009 - 2:10 pm:
Angie does she wear a fly mask during the day??
The reason I ask is Hank is a notorious head shaker/tosser as Holly describes, if a fly even comes close to him the head tossing starts (even butterflies ) they don't even have to land on him. The reins were on the wrong side more then where they belonged! He started this a few years ago and it literally drives me nuts.
2 things have helped. The first you have heard me speak of ...the quiet ride mask...helped a lot
The second thing cured him this year, as much as I hate to do it we are taking the get over it route...he never gets a fly mask on...he is learning to deal with it. Since I got tough the head tossing has completely disappeared and the reins stay where they should
I'm sure I'll cave in later in the summer, the flies aren't bad right now, but it has done wonders for the head toss!
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 14, 2009 - 2:11 pm:
Haven't got to her yet today, but as I said above, she is really touchy around that ear. If I work it, eventually she wraps her head around me and lets me rub inside it.
What I am also going to check for is just playing with the bit, without the head stall on...wondering if some pressure from the headstall is causing pain?
Would a bug in the ear not also cause head tossing at other times? I mean, since birth she's done the "Arab head flip" thing...but it's not that right now. In fact, her eyes look a little puffy also, like allergies. Only she looks that way, other 3 are fine.
Thanks everyone for the ideas. The local large animal vet is not real good at diagnosing equine issues; o.k. for obvious wounds, but not teeth, and not ears...unless she's improved tremendously in her knowledge since I last had her out!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 14, 2009 - 5:50 pm:
Hello Angie,
for a complete list of possibilities including information on light sensitivity see Training & Conditioning Horses » Behavioral Problems » Head Shaking. I don't really think we can make much of the fact she does it with and without a bit and yes teeth further back in the mouth may cause problems.
DrO
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 14, 2009 - 6:51 pm:
Thanks DrO,
Diane,
Well, I checked everything with the bit in her mouth, and headstall off her head..no reaction except her wondering what I was doing!
So, I put a thick rubber snaffle on her headstall, and the bareback pad on her. Other than her HATING that thick rubber bit in her little mouth, and me not riding too well on the pad, she didn't do any head tossing.
So it may be as simple as a bitting issue, or maybe I did apply fly stuff to her ears and that irritated her? I don't use bug spray much unless trimming or riding. Or the bit she's had in her mouth just rubs her wrong all of a sudden.
Geez, I feel silly now wasting everyones time with something that may be nothing.
Of course, there's always tomorrow!
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 14, 2009 - 8:00 pm:
Angie,
Something in your last post caught my eye. The fact that you rode her in a bareback pad and not a saddle. Perhaps the head shaking has nothing to do with mouth or ears, could the saddle be rubbling her or annoying her somehow.
Horses are very strange creatures sometimes and sometimes they act up because something is bothering them. To test the saddle theory, I would put the other bridle back on and ride her with the bareback pad and see if that makes a difference.
Rachelle
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 14, 2009 - 9:26 pm:
Angie, I hope the problem is gone. But the latest issue of Equus said that virtually EVERY horse that wears a bit gets sores in their mouth! They suggested switching between two different ones to minimize irritation. Don't know if that's the prob, but maybe the other bit wasn't pressing in the same spot as the old one?
Just a thought.
Erika
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 14, 2009 - 11:38 pm:
I had the same thought after I was in tonight; maybe the saddle was pinching. I always rig up something with a blanket under the saddle and between the pad to keep the tree off her shoulders/withers...another post I had on her sway back we tried to solve...yet she's not really sway backed.
Try the saddle tomorrow and rubber bit.
Although come to think of it, last time her back was sore she just flat out refused to MOVE even one step! Flattened her ears and said NO loud and clear!
Erika,
I just let my Equus subscription run out. But I can believe that. It don't take much to hurt a mouth IMHO.
I actually do switch between 3 bits with her: a regular snaffle, a 3 part (with the thick middle piece) and a Myler bit that has a port, and swivels with slight curb action.
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Member:
gramsey1
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 14, 2009 - 11:58 pm:
I started the "Nose Flip" discussion.
Our boy has been on an antihistamine for two weeks. It clearly helped. He still does toss his head once in awhile. Not as much and not enough to inhibit training. There is some sensitivity to light. And, I believe, some habit.
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