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  Discussion on Head snaking/tossing
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Member:
Gillb

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 7, 2005 - 10:01 am:

I have a 3 year old pony on trial who is great in all ways except he is frequently tossing/snaking his head, not like the head tossing you see in an uncomfortable horse or one with allergies, but more like he is showing off! He was a stallion up until a couple of months ago so I don't know whether the behaviour relates to that. He's recently been backed but I have seen this behaviour in all situations; in the field, stable, on the lunge and under saddle and even loose schooling.

He's had his wolf teeth removed, but his owners say he only did it a little at their yard. However on my yard he seems to do it much of the time (I've only had him since Saturday). He is rather an attention seeker as well, bangs the stable door if he sees me but I totally ignore it and only go to him if he is quiet.

Could the head tossing be to do with stress, as he is probably a bit unsettled, or is it another attention seeking behaviour? Will it improve with time, as he is a very nice pony otherwise.
Member:
Kckohles

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 7, 2005 - 10:51 am:

Gill,

Does he do it at night too? Sometimes they are photosensitive which can cause head tossing. Does he have any nasal discharge? The fact that it is worse at your place could mean stress, (I think it's unlikely but definitely possible) or it could be more shady at the other place, or there is more of whatever is bugging him.
I have an allergy head shaker and can say that it was not a fun road to find a cure, but I am happy to say that we did finally find one!
KIM
Member:
Kckohles

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 7, 2005 - 10:52 am:

Correction, we finally found a successful way to manage it not cure it, my mistake.
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 7, 2005 - 11:14 am:

Kim,
What did you find? My first horse, who I bred and now ride the son of, had head shakers synDrOme. We ended up finding that only a nose net managed her. Now, for the first time, her son, my current baby, who is now 9, shook his head. This is breaking my heart. I am going to try whatever new stuff has come out since I retired his mom. What do you use?
Alicia
Member:
Gillb

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 7, 2005 - 11:14 am:

Hi Kim, I haven't noticed any nasal discharge or seen him do it at night. I've watched him from my house and if he is quiet and there is nothing going on then he doesn't seem to do it. I've also watched him grazing and if he is occupied with eating he also doesn't do it, I would have thought if it was an allergy he would do it all the time, especially at grass? If I appear on the yard then it starts again, which is why I thought it may be to do with attention seeking.

Where I have seen him do it at grass, is when he is trotting off to see if he can find another equine friend, and there is a lot of head tossing while he is trotting.

I'll watch more carefully when he goes out today!
Member:
Kckohles

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 7, 2005 - 11:35 am:

Alicia,
I use a couple of things that manage it really well. I use a homeopathic product called Allium Cepa 30x (I think that is the spelling, pretty sure). I also use a nasal spray by Zicam, for allergies. Dosage, I use about 6-10 pills (1 or 2 a day depending on how bad she is), and three sprays in each nostril. I don't always use them together, sometimes I am out of the pills and just use the spray and sometimes not the spray. The good thing about the homeopathic is you can re-dose in 15 minutes if there isn't improvement. You also don't have to give it everyday all year, what has been amazing is how much improvement my mare has had with inconsistent use.
My mare is a pretty severe case of basically hay fever. Spring and fall are the worst times for her, she shakes and sneezes she's just plain miserable.
I have tried every thing under the sun to help her and this has finally done the trick. It seems like a miracle to have found something that works so well and isn't that expensive.
KIM
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 7, 2005 - 11:48 am:

Kim,
I just started looking and one company has a homeopathic remedy specifically designed for head tossers, but it is expensive. Seems a bit easier than your plan. I am glad there are new therapies available. I am going to compile everything and try to eliminate therapies from the easiest to administer to the hardest. I also intend on showing, so homeopathy would be better than drugs.
Alicia
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 7, 2005 - 6:43 pm:

As is my responsibility here I must post that such homeopathic remedies are nothing more than water with an incredible dilute (gone for all practical purposes) solution of "something" and that it does not possess any known medical qualities or any other known physical property other than the water itself. But it does have the ability to drain your wallet needlessly.

I am uncertain what is in the Zicam remedy.
DrO
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 8, 2005 - 11:03 am:

Dr. O.,
Yeah, I tend to agree with you about homeopathy (haven't completely given up on the whole idea yet, though). Guinness did NOT shake yesterday. Not sure what is up with the whole thing. It was just as hot and humid yesterday and nothing else had changed. Maybe the fact that a storm was looming changed the pressure in his head the day he did it? I have no idea. I do want to keep abreast of any management ideas for the future in case this becomes more common with him. On another list I frequent, a person doing the 3'6" hunters (on a lovely horse) uses a hairnet on her horse's nose to prevent the shaking, and you can't even see it. Hairnets are a neat idea because they come in so many colors. It is funny that they work at all, but if the "cure" has something to do with nerves as opposed to breathing in pollen, I guess it wouldn't matter what you put on their nose.
Member:
Kckohles

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 8, 2005 - 11:29 am:

Alicia & Dr. O,

I can understand that it seems like "hocus pocus" but the thousands of dollars I spent with the vet and on medications and vitamins drained my wallet faster than the $6.99 for 250 count homeopathic pills. All I was after was results, and thankfully (it's a miracle to me) its working. I can enjoy riding my horse, and she can enjoy it too, anytime of year without the frustrating head shaking.
An interesting side discussion related to this would be the power of water. There is a book The Hidden Messages In Water by Dr. Masuru Emoto that is really amazing. He has a web site so you can look at samples of what his work is about but I recommend getting the book.
KIM
P.S. Love the spelling help!
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 8, 2005 - 12:01 pm:

Kim,
Note I said I am not totally sure it is hocus pocus. I have never seen it work on a horse, but my dog just started on tuberulinum and it seemed to have helped him the first day. He has no appetite and eats very little. We are working around with the dosage, but it does seem to be helping him eat more. Not sure if he just cured himself, but he ate every meal for a week (which he hasn't done since we've owned him, 8 months) before he stopped again. The vet told us to stop it, and he ate again after we stopped it. It seems he needs just a little in his system, or he just decided to eat and it has nothing to do with the medicine. Still not sure, but I am going to continue as directed. This dog is 11 months old and went from 60 to 55 pounds over the last month.
Alicia
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