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Discussion on Retrain or Ignore
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Member:
Melis
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 9, 2005 - 1:42 pm:
Hi, I have a 6 yo TWH gelding that I've owned for 3 yrs. When I first aquired him, he had a bad habit of pulling back when tied and would occasionally pull back on the lead rope with ground training. I started working with him using the natural horsemanship methods (Anderson and Parelli) and I thought we were past all that since it hasn't been an issue for over a year or so I thought.
Last night I felt like we were in a time warp. I had gone out to the pasture with the intention of doing just a little halter/lead rope /bareback riding in the arena...nothing stressful. I tied him, loosely to the post and turned to get the brush. In a split second he spooked and went pulling back. The rope loosened and he went running off. Ok, now I'm annoyed so I feed my other two horses and wait for him to settle down. I admit it, I was not happy and it probably showed in my body language. He stood still and grabbed his lead line but as I turned to head back to the barn he half reared and went flying backwards pulling me on to my face and of course took off running. Mistake number two.
Now I'm beyond annoyed. I know, in retrospect, I should have just dusted myself off and gone back into the house to cool off but I didn't. Instead I DrOve him around until he was ready to join up and then we worked on tying (and not pulling back) but I still in a bad mood. I didn't feed him. I went back into the house, drank an adult beverage and took some Motrin and mulled over the situation. An hour later I returned to the barn and fed him.
Now I'm wondering how much damage I did to our relationship. He definitely knows he's stronger than I am and I know that's not a good thing. I'm not sure what the next step should be...do I start over from the beginning (work from the ground work up)or is it possible he was just having a bad day? (Sigh)I wish I knew how NOT to get so emotional when things aren't going right. Most of the time I can keep my feelings in check and not take "bad" behavior personally but I was really angry with him last night. Any suggestions?
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 9, 2005 - 2:35 pm:
Melissa . . . don't worry . . . it's just another opportunity to reinforce what he needs to know.
Get a Blocker Tie Ring (from either Clinton Anderson's site, Blocker's site, or maybe some of the horse equipment catalogs carry it now) and a loooong, smooth lead . . . and tie him to it whenever . . .
Things will improve . . . just a relapse and a chance for him to get SOLID on tying.
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Member:
Leilani
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 9, 2005 - 3:24 pm:
I agree with Holly. Just the other day my 12 yo mare decided that she did not know how (or want) to get in the trailer for a dental appt. I took a deep breath and started to ask her again what I wanted. She basically ignored me. I never lost my temper, but kept asking her. After awhile I was so sweaty, I just sat down in the back of the trailer and she hopped in. Mares...
Don't give up. Leilani
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Member:
Warwick
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 9, 2005 - 3:44 pm:
Melissa, I find that Motrin works best when washed down with a glass or two of wine...a good merlot or pinot gris generally does the trick.
Don't worry - tomorrow is another day and I very much doubt you've done any damage. We're all emotional beings and entitled to an off day - both us and the horses.
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Member:
Kckohles
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 9, 2005 - 4:29 pm:
Melissa,
Once a horse has learned to set back that will always be in there, and you should handle and tie him knowing this. Work on brushing and getting your horse ready untied. Helping your horse learn to be still and let down while you get him ready will do more for your training than anything else.
Try and take the approach that your horse pulled away for a reason, and believe me it wasn't to be "bad." Horses are not devious creatures, they respond to their environment and what they have learned. They are not like humans so their behavior isn't motivated by revenge or to make us look bad, it is in response to something that happened or is going to happen.
I wouldn't consider what happened as mistakes I think they are opportunities to look at what is going on in your relationship with your horse.
Is your horse enjoying the training programs as much as you are? You might be able to make your horse do some new things but are you really building up your relationship with your horse? Feedback like tail swishing, ear pinning, and running away are indicators that a horse might not be responding well to the things you are offering.
The other thing to know is to stay away from your horse when he is pulling back, do not try and step in and release any thing and stay away from the front. Many people are seriously injured by getting in front of their horse when they set back and when the horse jumps forward, (which will eventually happen if something doesn't break first) and get crushed.
Give your horse a big kiss and thank him for being in your life.
KIM
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Member:
Chohler
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 9, 2005 - 5:38 pm:
Melisa clinton anderson's tie ring is a good idea, but it won't stop the pulling back. I never leave a horse that pulls back by itself, assume they will do it. If I need to do something I have someone watch the horse for me.
Never leave a horse that pulls back tied to a trailer, especially unattended. And yes definitly don't stand in front or go to their face, they will come down on you, even if you need to cut the rope use extreme caution. I watched a horse pull a parked trailer and truck backwards for several feet and the horse was freaked because of course it was following him. The other thing is never leave your horse tied to objects that aren't anchored securely by that I mean sturdy posts that are deeply set. We had an emergency at the vets office where a guy tied a horse to a stop sign, and the horse spooked uprooting the sign and severely damaging itself. We couldn't count the stitches. She survived the whole ordeal but the guy did the same damn thing again and she didn't make that one.
I don't mean to intimidate you. You can effectively alter this behavior.
With these horses I use a poll halter from parker halters, it has an extra loop that goes from the clip ring around the poll, it puts the pressure on the poll instead of everywhere else. Once they feel the extra pressure they come forward. They are sometimes called pull back halters. You could even make one using a regular halter. I am having a hard time finding parker halters they might even be called parker enterprises but I am not for sure I ordered it through my tack store. I did find a link for one just like it though.
https://www.chicksaddlery.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CH5 3&Category_Code=2000&Product_Count=7
When dealing with a horse that pulls back I make sure they understand go forward cues, with a whip, I don't whip them I tap them rythmically on the rump above the tail till they move forward away from the pressure. When they definitly get that then I will tie them and sit and watch if they pull back I use the whip to cue forward, this allows me to stay out of danger. They get it after a few times. For those that are persistent I increase the pressure to go forward.
At the ranch I worked at we would leave horses tied to what some call a patience pole. it is a tall sturdy pole that we tie the horse to and leave them for an hour or longer, they can paw and do all their little stupid stuff. They stoped pulling back and learned to be patient. Accidents can happen but very rarely. We made sure they were alone but we could see what they were doing. Most them time the obstinant ones just ended up with a sore head but they figured it out.
You didn't damage your relationship by working him after rearing. You reafirmed that he needs to listen. Putting him away and cooling off was a good thing. He got to think about it and you got to chill. Do a search and there is a good discussion here on what to do with horses that want to run off.
Even though you have done groundwork and your horse did good they need to be remided on a regular basis. They aren't like a car you parked in the garage and when you take it out again it will be the same as last time, they have bad days and moments also. As clinton anderson says horses are just maintenance with legs.
Your boy sounds like he is a good one just having a moment you shouldn't have no trouble teaching him to stop inappropriate behavior.
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Member:
Melis
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 9, 2005 - 6:30 pm:
Thanks for the advice. I actually am using the Aussie tie ring. I hooked him to it the loose way since I hadn't had any problems with tying for such a long time. I live in FL and it's now very hot and humid,there wasn't even a breeze yesterday...I just wasn't anticipating any spooking.
He and I have come a long way. He's out 24/7 with 2 other horses on 6 acres of pasture and is only worked 4-5 hours a week (trail and arena stuff). Our relationship has been one of trust but I have to say that I'm the one that felt let down yesterday. I know now that in his mind he thought he should pull back or else he'd be killed but the second time he pulled back it seemed like he was telling me he didn't want to be with me at that moment. Just wished he had picked an easier way, my body doesn't take abuse like it used to  .
Sue, I chose an icy cold Miller lite to wash the Motrin down with...after pulling back the long hair that was hanging freely to start with but then was a big frizz ball mixed with grass after we were finished. I had planned to just pull it up and put my helmet on but that plan was foiled!
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Member:
Jojo15
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 9, 2005 - 11:34 pm:
I think you are reading too much into it. I think he got spooked and that's that.
Just a thought: I live in florida too. The heat like you said was awful, and there was ZERO wind. which means bugs, flies, horseflies, etc. They are at astronomic proportions.
HE might have spooked for a really good reason. Did you check his halter area for any kinds of bites, stings, etc? Your story reads to me that you tied him loosely, putting some pressure on the halter. Then when you caught him, again some pressure was put on the halter.
You never know there might have been something between him and the halter.
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Jun 10, 2005 - 10:23 am:
Melissa,
I don't drink, but there are times I can see the need to have a cold one after dealing with horses, or maybe before, ;-)
I have a Freisian mix that likes to sit down alot when tied. A few weeks ago I was putting the surcingle on him, forgetting he's only been saddled a few times. I tightened it up, and he freaked out. He was cross tied and broke the sidepull he had on. I was going to handwalk him as he was on stall rest for his (ongoing) lameness problem(s). Once we got over the scare, I thought he was pretty silly looking sitting with his butt against the barn doors. I've tried "be good" halters on him in the past, the kind that tighten across his nose. He sat down with that on too, and I thought he'd pass out from lack of oxygen before he got it figured out, and got up. He was tied to 2 strong poles that time.
Point is, ALWAYS have a HELMET on when working around horses. Don't just wear it for riding. I am glad you didn't get hurt. I know I am guilty of not following that advice myself, but we are all getting better around here. Even a foals little hoofy hurts on the noggin if they rear up and hit your head!!
Another thought: We had a wonderful gentle mare who was just about perfect. But she would spook and pull when tied. Seems she saw her shadow or the lead ropes and would panick. It was never serious, but just goes to show that ya never know with these critters.
I am sure you 2 will be fine in the future. It was just one of those days.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Jun 10, 2005 - 11:19 am:
When I get angry like that I always stop and remember I am the idiot choosing to continue to work with these large, reactive, and dangerous critters. I am the idiot, I am the idiot, over and over till I can laugh at myself for being such an idiot. I don't know...it helps me more than counting to 10 or any other rationalization I have yet come up with.
I must interject the equivalent dose is 2 Miller Lights (must be kept very refrigerated) to one large glass of Merlot. Small breeds can half this dose and is not suitable for individuals still growing. I have little to add to the excellent advice given above but do have an article explaining various tie out procedures for teaching tying but since you are in the right topic, it is the article associated with this section, you may already read it?
DrO
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Member:
Melis
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Posted on Friday, Jun 10, 2005 - 12:45 pm:
Dr. O,
I like your mantra! I'll try to remember it the next time I need it. Yes, I have read the article but since it had been such a long time between episodes, I wasn't anticipating any more tying problems.
Actually, I tried to get Brody to pull back when I first got the Aussie Tie Ring (about a year ago)but he just stood there with one leg cocked looking at me like I was crazy. Back then I didn't have any neighbors. Now I have three families living within view of the barn. Geez, first they got to watch me get pulled off my feet onto my face, then they got to hear me yelling some choice words while at the same time flapping my arms at the running horse with his rope hackamore dangling around his neck and lastly they for sure must have been wondering what I was doing by tying the horse to the pole and then jumping up and down, flicking me fingers at his face while hooting and kissing at him. Yup, they must think I'm nuts! Oh well...I'm sure it was good entertainment. 
Once again, thanks everyone, for the advice and words of encouragement.
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Friday, Jun 10, 2005 - 1:37 pm:
Melissa,
After my first horse once made a complete fool of me in front of an audience (actually, it happened more than once...) a wise horse woman said to me: "Nothing will keep you humble like small children and horses..." Ain't THAT the truth!
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Friday, Jun 10, 2005 - 1:38 pm:
PS...DrO...above is my first post since you added the spell-checker...LOVE IT! My spelling is also something that will keep me humble...
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Friday, Jun 10, 2005 - 2:16 pm:
All good advice above, but I would like to say that I particularly agree with Joj and DrO.
No matter what level or amount of training, a horse is still a horse. Thank God.
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Jun 10, 2005 - 5:54 pm:
Sounds like you would of had a winner for "Funniest Home Videos" had you filmed it. I think all non-horsey neighbors think we are nuts. My first attempt at ground driving years back had me going across the corral on my back, lunge line wrapped around my foot....thank God there was snow on the ground at the time!!! Of course this was right after my husband said "Do you know the line is around your foot?" Of course I did, right?? This was before I wearing a helmet was the in thing to do; I was lucky I didn't get hurt.
Love the "I am an idiot" chant. Don't care for the spell checker, was wondering where that came from!!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Jun 10, 2005 - 6:05 pm:
Angie, concerning the spell checker, it makes me look so much smarter. I am convinced many others beside myself have thought I was a idiot from my spelling or my miss-typing as I liked to call it. If that bright yellow really bugs you, you can turn it off by going to your profile and de-selecting the preview screen.
DrO
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Jun 10, 2005 - 9:18 pm:
So the horses AND spelling make you look like an idiot?? Geez, you are being pretty hard on yourself today!!!
Now if you'd just look at this from a woman's perspective: the reason I spell wrong (or throw in extra words like I did in the post above) is because my brain works so fast that my fingers just can't keep up. Or sometimes my mouth can't keep up and my twonge gets all wapped around my theeth.....LOL!!!
Seriously, as long as you know your vet stuff, we can forgive any "miss-typing".
Now, no more negative talk, and have a good weekend!!!
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Member:
Alden
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Posted on Friday, Jun 10, 2005 - 11:55 pm:
Melissa,
There is good advice given here, but I haven't seen this; so I'll add it. I desensitize my horses much the way Clinton does in the a round pen on a lead rope, but what I wasn't doing (I do it now) was the the same desensitizing when they were tied. It's different when they are tie, a horse that will ignore a lot in the round pen will often react strongly when their head is restricted.
Use the blocker ring or something else that will slip but not release totally and go through all the scary stuff you can find until he as that, “that the best you can do look". I believe it is the rare horse that can not be taught to tie and not pull.
If you don't have a blocker and can tie a rope between to poles or trees that have enough space between them a horse can turn 360 degrees, you can tie them high overhead. I use this also and a horse can get just as silly as they want and can't get loose or easily hurt themselves. I get all my horses used to being tied high so I get a good nights rest while camping.
Good day,
Alden
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Member:
Green007
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Posted on Monday, Jun 13, 2005 - 10:12 am:
Spell check can take things in an all new direction if you are not careful. I know. One time I sent an email to a client telling them that something that happened with their account was a very good thing. It was a short and sweet email. I just typed "That's good!" and that was the extent of the email. Spellcheck happily agreed with my statement and sent the email on its merry way to the Very Important Client. Of course, what I had really typed was "That's God!" Spellcheck had even capitalized the "God" for me!
The Very Important Client didn't understand at first, but luckily had a sense of humor.
Don't even get me started on the word "public." I have seen resumes and bios for people who have worked in "pubic services" more often than you could believe.
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