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Discussion on Horses receptiveness to rider nervousness
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 5, 2009 - 2:04 pm:
Rider fear has always seemed to me to be a danger that influences a horse's performance so the results of this experiment do not surprise me:
Horses React to Human Heart Rates, Study Finds
by: Nancy Zacks
July 01 2009, Article # 14464
(from "The Horse")
An increase in a human's heart rate affects the heart rate of the horse they are leading or riding, researchers at the Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences recently reported.
Linda Keeling, PhD, and colleagues tested horses and riders to see if humans inadvertently communicate fear and anxiety to horses. Using heart rate as a fear indicator, the researchers asked 20 people with varying levels of horse experience to walk and ride 10 horses from Point A to Point B four times. The researchers told participants an umbrella would open as they rode or led the horse on the fourth pass. The umbrella never opened, but heart rates in both horses and humans increased during the fourth trip between the points, when the human expected the umbrella to open.
"The increase in the horses' heart rates probably means that they are more alert and prepared to react to any potential danger," Keeling said. "In the wild, horses are adapted to respond to other animals in their group. A startle reaction is more likely when the horse is very alert."
If you are a nervous person leading or riding a horse, your nervousness might increase the likelihood of the "spook" that you are anxious to avoid.
The study, "Investigating horse-human interactions: the effect of a nervous human," was published in the July 2009 issue of The Veterinary Journal. The abstract is available on PubMed.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 5, 2009 - 7:32 pm:
My husband is a better natural rider than I but he is nervous, altho he says not, and our reactive horse responds in kind to him.My one great gift is calm and this same horse relaxes to the point of closed eyes and an occasional snore around me. Have seen this several times with many rider horse combos you can really see the problem even in the best! Good study.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 5, 2009 - 9:25 pm:
Yes that has definitely been a well known fact. Interesting study
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Monday, Jul 6, 2009 - 7:05 am:
Thanks for posting, Vicki, although I didn't need the study to tell me this is true. Anyone with eyes can see the difference in the way my mare goes 5 minutes before I enter a show ring and the moment we go in. The only difference from one moment to the next is, unfortunately, me and my increased nerves.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 7, 2009 - 10:39 am:
I think they respond to more than the increase in heartbeat. I think smell plays into it also. I've seen horses react to people just coming up to pet them. The dogs they use at the Mexican border are very good at sniffing out criminals. The criminals are nervous and although they can be very good at covering their nervousness up, they give off a different odor than people who aren't trying to hide anything.
I know there are days when I just know I shouldn't be handling anything but a very well trained horse, so I don't. Stallions are particularly sensitive to emotions, illness, etc. One of mine will be extra sweet and easy to work with, the other will try and take advantage of me if I don't feel good.
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 7, 2009 - 10:40 am:
What I always wonder is if my horse can hear my heartbeat? Do you think their hearing is that good? I know they pick up our nervousness from other influences like breathing and posture, but we can control those yet still have a fearful horse under us.
Interesting study. It's always nice to see science back up what we know through experience.
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 8, 2009 - 12:51 am:
All this puts the "don't let 'em know yer' scared" thing into question. They know anyway!
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 8, 2009 - 5:30 pm:
It certainly behoves us to learn how to relax into the saddle for a better and safer ride and not over-react to stimuli that scares them lest we teach them fear.
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New Member:
monstruo
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 4, 2009 - 7:05 am:
wow... last summer I rode in an indoor arena during the hottest week of the year - an evening thunderstorm blew in, and the rain was coming in the windows sideways. I was apprehensive, with the thunder and all, and every time I passed a window the stalwart paint I rode shied from the windows.
So, I tried this... every time I passed a window, I consciously relaxed my muscles, and said aloud, "Man, that feels so good! Doesn't that nice cool rain feel good? Boy, I love this... etc etc, sotto voce so my instructor didn't think I am even loopier than he already thinks I am.
So the horse just stopped shying, did one of those wonderful contented snorts, and we had a good lesson, despite the thunder and lightening and rain beating down on the roof.
Sometimes whistling in the dark is a real good idea ;).
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 4, 2009 - 7:33 am:
Alma,
Singing works too, all though everyone on my farm thinks I'm loopy anyway. I sing Camptown races to the beat of the horses hoofbeats.It relaxes me and the horse.
Rachelle
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 4, 2009 - 9:28 am:
I sing or hum too, especially when riding out alone. Sometimes the song is like "Cody, don't be goofy that _____ won't hurt you, do da do da...you can do it, let's go now." I think adding the horses name to the song helps keep him focused, 
Also up here in the fall, making noise, which is what my singing is, lets the hunters know it's not a deer coming out!
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 4, 2009 - 1:07 pm:
For walking along I use, "if you go out in the woods tonight, you better not go alone. Tonight's the night the teddybears have their pick...nic." Singing is a great way to keep breathing, and as Rachelle notes, if it works, what does it matter if people think you're odd?
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 4, 2009 - 2:10 pm:
Hi Alma and welcome to HA,
I have a similar situation with a window in our indoor arena. The trees blowing used to shy my horse as I rode past, so now I think "they are just trees, I KNOW they can't hurt us" and I believe it because I know it is true. That helps me relax and my horse no longer shies from them.
The problem I had with singing was that my body was not relaxed and soon my horse associated the singing with my being nervous. So while it is a useful tool, it is important to relax and think about the song and not the scarey thing your horse is worried about.
Linda
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Member:
dustee
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 4, 2009 - 8:00 pm:
If you use a song that has repetitive phrases in it - like - Oh, Suzannah - - or You are my sunshine..something along those lines, your brain doesn't have to get too involved because you know what is coming next in the song, and your muscles start to release and relax. I suppose you could also use Ninety nine bottles of beer on the wall, but, me - I would lose my place.
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Monday, Oct 5, 2009 - 9:21 am:
Singing works great for us, too. But so does "yoga breathing" and visualization, surprisingly!
I used to have a problem with Cleo jumping from side to side at things she would look at while cantering/galloping if she was leading. Believe it or not, I have begun getting a mental image of a nice, straight, and easy line to where we are headed and it works like MAGIC! Go figure...got that from Jane Savoie, she is a big believer in breathing and visualizing.
Erika
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 6, 2009 - 11:19 am:
Seems like we had a discussion on this a few years ago and it turned out a lot of us hum, whistle and sing when we ride and work with our horses. I'm another one that does. If a horse is nervous I always hum or sing whether I'm on the trail or on the ground. I hum, sing or talk when I'm cleaning their stalls, also. I've always thought it calmed the horses and that they enjoyed it. Of course the cruel truth might be that they've figured out that if they behave, I'll be quiet!
Susie, the Teddy Bear's Picnic was my all time favorite song when I was young. We had a record with that on one side and This Old House on the other; my brother loved This Old House. We totally wore the record hole out of the record!
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 6, 2009 - 12:59 pm:
Too funny, Sara, I tend to sing songs I used to sing to my sons when they were little. Baby Beluga is a good one to go with the rhythm of my horse, but I still choke up a little when I sing it, missing those little babies who are men now, Ha ha!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 6, 2009 - 2:12 pm:
Guess I never learned Baby Beluga. The all time favorite lullaby for both babies and horses was/is "Sail Bonnie Boat" also called, I think, Skye lullaby. Now that we've established that evidently all of us old nickersisters sing and hum to our horses, I wonder if anyone younger does? Or is it just a trait of old age?
At any rate, I'm glad to read that our instincts are good, and that for whatever reason, it seems to help calm us all down, horses included.
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 6, 2009 - 3:28 pm:
I think at 35 I'm straddling the line between old and young, but I sing to my horses too. Lately the song of choice has been Ballad of a Runaway Horse by Emmy Lou Harris. Maybe that's counter productive...? 
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 6, 2009 - 3:43 pm:
Shannon, you are but a baby, LOL!!
great song choice, however.
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 6, 2009 - 4:38 pm:
Hmmm...you are all so "refined" in your song choices! Despite my age (or maybe because of it), I tend to sing Pink Floyd's "Comfortably Numb", Simon & Garfunkels' "The Boxer" and hum Beethoven's 5th (or is the 9th? Not the Ode to Joy, the other one)...very weird choices but for the past several years they are the songs that seem to pop into my head right before entering the show ring.
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Member:
boots
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 6, 2009 - 8:24 pm:
OK guys. The only song that I can come up with when riding is "Bury Me Not on the Lone Prairie" Yes, I sing it, my horse likes it, but does this have any deep seated ( play on words) meaning? I will work hard to train myself in another song. "99 Bottles of Beer", as suggested, might work. The horse can't count, and you can't lose the melody. I qualify for 'older rider'. I'm 73.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 6, 2009 - 8:52 pm:
boots,
Love to hear you are still riding at 73! I just turned 49, thinking I was old, lol!! Not as brave as I once was around horses, but that might be a good thing.
Hmmm..if I am going to sing, I like a song I know all the words to. That leaves "If I had A Hammer" and "Take me Home, County Roads."
I try to avoid getting going with "Another Bites the Dust"  which used to my "Work song" for getting jobs done.
I think I need some culture, I have no idea what songs some of you are talking about!
I wonder, if I were to buy a um, "sophisticated equine" would s/he be insulted with my song choices??
(Question: I wonder what song Tango needs for me to successfully ride him safely?)
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 6, 2009 - 10:50 pm:
"Ba-by be-luga in the deep blue sea, you swim so wild and you swim so free". Very rhythmic! I don't know how you guys sing those other songs....
Angie, "Another One Bites the Dust" would work for me! The other day I sang "Over the River and Through the Woods" as I did my Jane Savoie visualization. What the heck...whatever works!
Erika
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 6, 2009 - 10:55 pm:
BTW, Boots, I am proud that you are riding at 73. Wishing you at least 73 more. Hey, it could happen!
And i admire you for spelling "lose" correctly! Ha ha! One of my biggest bugs here! "Don't be a loser, spell looser only when you are...."
Tee hee.
Erika
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 6, 2009 - 10:56 pm:
Angie, I'd try humming a nice slow waltz with Tango, or maybe sing him a lullabye. Poor guy, with a name like Tango he's handicapped in the easy rider department. I'm sure he feels a need to dance with that name! And...I can't believe you think you are old! Shame on you!! Jeesh, how do you think that makes some of the rest of us feel (me for example!) I love that Boots spoke up. I nominate her for nickersisterhood.
Erika, the breathing and visualization bit really works. I think there have been several book written on the subject and techniques to use. I know many western trainers use versions of this technique and teach it to their students. I know my friend Ellen's jumping coach also teaches this. Another thing that works is the old "what is the worst thing that can happen?" I ask myself this before going into a class. Obviously, the worst thing is I won't get a ribbon. I'm not going to loose my horse, etc. This calms me down, which probably helps calm my horse down also.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 1:29 am:
I was dancing with my darling to the Tennessee Waltz...
Or:
Oh please don't squeeze my Charmin, don't hold her too tight, you best take my warning, it's the last one tonight.
(My gramma used to play her harmonica and sing when I was a child. Maybe I should have get some of her tunes on tape for the barn!)
Now, a lullaby to put me to sleep, it's 1:30 in the morning darn near...sigh.
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 10:06 am:
I sing "On Top of Spaghetti". Always makes me laugh and that is the best way to relax.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 10:38 am:
For your giggles today, here's a link to Charlie Walker singing "Don't squeeze my Sharmom" from 1967.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgmLd20_PaU&feature=related
Our horses are very lucky we are such a talented bunch of horse moms! ( and dads )
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 11:30 am:
"Talented" might be stretching it!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 7:47 pm:
I like to sing Aye yai yai yai I am the frito bandito...., am I showing my age?
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 8:20 pm:
Well, this will probably really date me, but when I am enjoying the beauty of a day in the saddle my song very often is an old hymn that we used to sing when I was in the children's choir:
This is my Father's world, and to my listening ears all nature sings, and round me rings the music of the sphere.
This is my Father's world: I rest me in the thought of rocks and trees, of skies and seas; his hand the wonders wrought.
This is my Father's world, the birds their carols raise, the morning light, the lily white, declare their maker's praise.
This is my Father's world, he shines in all that's fair; in the rustling grass I hear him pass; he speaks to me everywhere.
This is my Father's world. O let me ne'er forget that though the wrong seems oft so strong, God is the ruler yet.
This is my Father's world: why should my heart be sad? The Lord is King; let the heavens ring! God reigns; let the earth be glad!
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Member:
boots
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 10:25 pm:
Another comment from this ancient one: We need to make a combined CD of all of these 'riding songs' mentioned here. What a hit that would be!! Our horses will order ear plugs.
BTW I love the term nickersisterhood. Who thought that up? I am proud to be considered a candidate.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 11:06 pm:
There are quite a few of us that are "older" and somewhere along the line we dubbed ourselves the "nickersisters." I don't remember who came up with the name. I think you have to be over 50 to be considered a full "nickersister," but there are several who are "in training" for full "sisterhood."
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 11:14 pm:
Vicki, that's a lovely hymn. Very apropos for a nice trail ride.
Diane, you're not the only one that has spelling problems here. I used to love English and was a spelling whiz; as I get older I find I've forgotten how to spell even simple words sometimes. I think my mind just goes so fast my spelling doesn't keep up; also, I'm often in a hurry when I post on HA - just "stealing" a cup of coffee or taking a break from work. And, sometimes I'm just not awake; it's either too early or too late. Maybe too our brains have just gotten lazy since we all have spell checkers on email and word processors. So long as we can figure out what you mean, I wouldn't worry about it; no one's grading you!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 11:18 pm:
Oh, duh, of course...."chute." Jeeze....glad I'm not the only one!
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Member:
hpyhaulr
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 5:27 am:
Sara,
If I remember correctly it was the Saddlebags one needed an AARP card to get into (I could make a career of shooting myself in the foot!) Nickersisters, heck, we even roped Denny in that one 'Nickers sisters and their white-hatted cowboy brother!'
Caffeine also helps my grammar and spelling, but there are times.....our most universal all inclusive was Corinne's Surrogate Family. I'm on the first cup, let me know if I've left anyone out here...
Sign me up for a CD folks! Then Tuffy would not have to suffer MY singing, I could play yours!
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 6:49 am:
I love sharing that first cup of coffee with you all, whether we are saddlebags, or nickersisters. There are times I think about cancelling my membership but I know I would miss so many folks on here! And of course about that time one of the horses would get sick, or hurt, and I'd be back on here anyhow.
Kinda like Ghost Busters...who ya gonna call? DrO & the HA members!!
Sara,
So, have to be 50 to become a "nickersister" huh?
Thank you for giving me something to look forward to, lol!
Today I will have the Frito Bandito song stuck in my head, and "Who ya gonna call?" I hope it helps me get a lot done!!
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 9:43 am:
If memory serves me, and at this point that is pretty "iffy", Saddlebags are the over 50 crowd. Nickersisters originated through kind-hearted acts toward fellow HA'ers in need. We have a few of those under our collective hats. I am proud to be a member of both groups.
I like that Frito Bandito song. Got to use that in the future. It will make me laugh for sure.
Linda
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 9:51 am:
I guess I have been thinking about this thread - while I am riding my gelding.
First off - I can't sing, can't hum, can't hold a tune. But, the songs with the best beat to match a horse's walk or trot are the hiking and riding songs I sang as a kid in school (they are in German, and at least no one knows them, so they can't tell that I can't carry a tune ....well, maybe they can).
But - I realized that a lot of the songs are having to do with riders riding into battle - not really what you want to think about when going out on a trail. So - I will try to focus on the hiking songs instead from now on.
Happy trails, everyone!
Lilo
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 11:01 am:
Linda and Cyndy, I guess you're right. It's that memory thing again. 
Having a CD wouldn't be a bad idea; my horses would probably appreciate something new. Sometimes I sound like a stuck record!
I'm sure there are times that the good Dr.O wonders what he's created here on the internet. At times it seems like a social site rather than a equine vet site. Some of us have been on here for quite a few years and have formed good friendships; several of us have been fortunate enough to meet in person. We get chatty (like now) and stray from the topic, I'm sure much to the frustration of others,including Dr.O.
However, there is such a wealth of combined years of horse ownership and care; so much combined knowledge, and everyone here is willing to share. It's one of the few sites where people seem to be able to offer advice and discuss the best way of doing things without throwing "hissy fits" and figuratively stompping off. I've logged on in the middle of the night and the wee hours of the morning when I've been up worrying over and caring for an ill or injured horse. And always there is someone, in some part of the world, that can offer advice, and if not advice, at least sympathy and understanding. So, if you're a "newby" here, don't get put off by us "old timers!"
Geesh; how'd I get going? All that's on just 1/2 a cup of coffee,too!
Back to subject at hand: Lilo, you bring up a point. I've always hummed/sang lullabyes because I thought there were more soothing to the horse. Having read the article on horses responding to breathing, I guess it doesn't matter what we sing/hum as long as it evens out our breathing and calms US down, because the horse is probably responding more to our even breathing than to our great voices.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 11:55 am:
The sharing and caring is a very nice part of this site, and somehow I'll bet that Dr. O doesn't mind when what we share and learn goes beyond the subject at hand.
Count me in on the Nickersisters as I definitely qualify.
Sara, you are right about the spelling skills declining somewhat over time. My husband is (always has been) a horrible speller who is always asking me how to spell something, so I am often reminded that the task has become more difficult -- especially if I cannot write the word down on paper but instead am forced to recite the answer! I love the spell check feature.
Songs with rhythm are great for team riding. The horses get into the beat. It is fun to watch jumping or dressage U-tubes of horses where the song matches the horse's action.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 12:16 pm:
On the subject of spelling and spell checkers. The best spell checker in the world will not pick up a correctly spelled word that's used in the wrong context ( i.e. chute vs. shoot).
I think I need to be relaxed, not necessarily my horse, because it seems he can read my mind. He might be going along very nicely and the minute I think he's going to screw up he does, I anticipate it, he does it. I need to learn how to zone myself out and not think when I'm jogging. Maybe I need an MP3 player plugged into my ears!
Rachelle
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Member:
boots
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 12:47 pm:
Spelin erers - not me!
Anyway, I think that this site is wonderful.You are there for each other in tough times with advise, sympathy, and togetherness. Dr. O, you step in whenever needed. Thanks. But the humor and stories shared makes a great balance and adds fun to it all. Isn't that what horse life is all about? We love our horses, care for them well, and need our friends.
And, yes, I think it is our breathing in the singing that relaxes the horse. Good thinking.
I talk to my mare a lot when riding, even if its nonsense. She seems to like it. At least I do. Same idea.I keep the REQUESTS a little louder and avoid words like "Home", which she understands!
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 3:25 pm:
Rachelle,
Many times I have thought that my horses can and do read my mind.
And it seems as they know about things happening in the other stalls of the barn without actually having to see the action.
They are very, very intuitive.
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Member:
hpyhaulr
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Posted on Friday, Oct 9, 2009 - 8:31 pm:
GUYS .. WE ARE SOOOO MISSING THE OBVIOUS!!!!
"Happy trails to you..
Until we meet again...
Happy trails to you....
Keep smiling until then....."
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 10, 2009 - 12:24 am:
Aaahhem....I believe it's "keep smiling ON 'till then.." I don't sing that one because I don't remember the words! LOL. I do sing "Don't Fence Me In" and parts of "Ride the Hulahan."
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