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Discussion on "Guest Rider" Etiquette
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 3, 2009 - 9:04 am:
For the most part, I have stopped taking out guest riders on my horses for obvious reasons that most of you have experienced ("Been riding all my life"...then goes to get on the wrong side, etc.). But once in a while an experienced riding friend will come into town and I like to take them on a trail ride on my horses.
I have had people do things that they thought were the right thing, however, that I just don't do to my horses.
Quick example: Guest was on Cleo, my young, but very steady mare. We had to pass several utility vehicles that were cleaning up storm damage--wires, downed trees, etc. Cleo was a bit nervous and may have scooted a bit past a cherry-picker. Her rider then shouted "Whoa" and gave a couple of sharp jerks on the reins!
After I resisted the urge to yank her bodily from the saddle I explained that I find it more effective to bend the horse, or move her haunches to get her attention back on me, rather than punish and try to make her stand still when she is distracted. The guest said sorry, she understands, was just doing what she would have done to "punish" her own horse.
So, my question is, those of you who DO allow the occasional guest on your horses, what if any advance directives do you give? Or do you do as I did and wait for an incident before speaking up?
I guess I could do a quick session in the ring to demonstrate stopping without reins, showing response to voice, etc. before letting them on. But it seems like overkill for most good riders, not to mention the extra time it takes out of the trail ride.
So give me some ideas here, will you?
Erika
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 3, 2009 - 9:46 am:
Erika, I don't think it's unreasonable to outline your expectations to your guests while tacking up. Just conversationally say something lie, "if, while we're on the trail, Cleo spooks, here's how I handle it..."
As good as some of these riders may be, we all know that people have been taught different ways to handle different situations, some methods aren't agreeable to everyone. Since Cleo is a young horse, just explain that you are working on her training and want to be consistent.
I think any caring horse person would appreciate the insight into an animal they have never before ridden, and if they don't appreciate it...well, the ride ends there!
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Member:
pattyb
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 3, 2009 - 11:08 am:
If I were about to ride one of your horses, I would ask you to teach me about the specific horse, as they are alllll different. The one time I found myself in trouble was when I didn't ask and was unknowingly put on a former race horse who had never been trail ridden. Low and behold, when that horse heard a horse across the street galloping, the horse I was sitting on at a stand still shot out from under me and I laid on the ground wonder what the heck just happened. The reverse of your question is that I felt the owner should have told me before I got on........
I ride with very gently hands and would not appreciate anyone jerking a mouth for punishment. I personally think everyone benefits from a session of enlightenment before mounting a strange horse.
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New Member:
denitia
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 3, 2009 - 11:35 am:
Personally, I would review the basic cues for that horse with each new rider on her. Everyone trains a bit different just like each horse has different levels of sensitivity.
I would not put a guest rider that I didn't know well on a green horse...even if they were usually pretty steady. I put guest riders on my old tried and true horses that have seen a lot of miles.
My horses are taught to be mounted from each side.
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Member:
jojo15
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 3, 2009 - 11:56 am:
good thread  i've been on both sides of this coin. but then i'm more apt to ask what they want me to be like on their horse. what their horse is like. And i always would love to see the owner ride before me if they can.
Of course you shouldn't feel bad telling anyone EXACTLY what you want. and i've yanked people off before. from boyfriends to clients to bosses. And i don't care what they think, she is my horse and she needs to feel safe that i'm not putting any yahoo on her or guess what? soon she'll identify other riders as a potential hazard and be a pain the butt to ride.
The other thing is i don't tell them so much as i show them. Usually when they first get on. This is how much leg pressure you will need and i'll push their leg where and how much pressure into the horse to show them how little it takes to get her to move off.. I show them how i stop her with body rather than bit. Same with the bit and its needed pressure. never to kick or pump her and so on.. And i don't care how experienced the rider says they are, she gets saddled western when i put anyone else but me on her. what i find soft you might find hard and so on. I don't think anyone should be offended. I would rather do this prior to the ride rather than during.
It's your horse and you have her pliable to you. An experienced rider doesn't always mean they are as soft as you. I find i get on someone elses horses and i'm too wishwashy. and i need to ramp it up a bit to get them to work or behave for me. and of course everyones horse is unruly but mine.prolly goes back to my wishywashy-ness
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Member:
drlarry
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 3, 2009 - 12:27 pm:
Yup, I think this is one o' those, "My Barn, My Rules" things. I have a client who gives a little tutorial to everyone who handles on of her horses. She's particular about knots, and part of her deal is her knot. "We tie our horses like this, and only like this." While it sounds extreme, everyone always knows how to release every horse in an emergency.
If you want it done in a particular way, I think the FAIREST thing is to show-and-tell.
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 3, 2009 - 12:51 pm:
Great, you guys. You are backing up what my instincts are. After the incident I opened with, my sister came up for a visit. Instead of getting on right away I told her I wanted to "show her what Cleo and I have been working on." Now, my sister is the opposite of the rein-yanker, she lets Cleo get away with just about anything. So it was nice that she actually paid attention and was happy to be shown how to get good transitions, etc.
I wish I could put guests on my older, tried and true horse! Unfortunately, Sugar is like riding a sports car, and she is a real finesse ride. She is wonderful with me, but gets nervous with others, and they tend to get nervous with her. She has earned the right NOT to be put under anyone else's control as far as I'm concerned.
But isn't that always the way? The easygoing horse always ends up with the new rider!
I agree with all of you. If I am the guest, I always ask for information as to how to deal with the horse and what to expect from various situations. I just didn't know how much to offer when someone doesn't ask. I will be more assertive about it from now on. Cleo is too good a soul to let that happen to her again!
Thanks!
Erika
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 3, 2009 - 4:37 pm:
Erika,
I just had this conversation with Holly a couple of hours ago. As I was telling her, whenever I let someone ride one of our horses, something seems to happen.
Fancy, who was a sweetheart in all ways, ran home with an experienced rider after a rein broke, and dogs chased her. She stopped at the horse tank, after running wide open through a 4' gate!
She decided to roll with another rider.
Then there were a couple of tight fisted guys who I did not want riding her; but kept my mouth shut to keep peace. (Hubby's friends, long time ago)
On the other side of the coin, I've had accidents happen and close calls when riding other peoples horses. I think each one of us has a bond with each one of our horses, and it takes time to learn how to get along as horse & rider.
If you came to ride with me, I'd insist you ride in the arena, and I would watch and give pointers as to what s/he is used to. I don't ASSUME I have trained the horse the best, or in a manner you are used to, nor do I ASSUME you are an expert rider until I see you and the horse in action. Like others have said, what I call soft & you call soft, can be very different.
I would expect the same if I rode one of your horses. PLEASE tell me what the horse is used to, and what may cause a wild ride I don't want. (Oh, and please put on a western saddle, lol!)
I wouldn't be too upset though with a jerk on the reins and yelling WHOA. I think that is an honest reaction to a situation that the rider was nervous about. Not the best way to handle it, but did it really ruin the horse for life? Or is it something to ruin the friendship? Not meaning that it did, just thinking out loud here.
I agree with being more assertive; it's your horse. If someone don't like being told how you want them to ride your horse, walking works too, ha!
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 3, 2009 - 5:55 pm:
Oh, Angie, you know the type I've banned! Those tough guys with the fists....
But the jerking on Cleo's reins haunts me. She is not the kind of horse that needs that. I rarely use a bit, and I haven't had one on her since then. It was just so...not necessary! (Now maybe if it was a kick in the pants she needed...)
Yes, I can get tough after a horse if I think they need it, but I guess you are all correct that one person's "soft" is not the same as another's. Good to get perspective, isn't it?
I am very interested in how you all handle this. I know there are plenty of people who avoid the situation altogether and just don't put anyone on their horses. Trouble is, I ride by myself 90% of the time other than hunting and pacing. It is nice to have company once in a while.
Erika
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New Member:
denitia
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 3, 2009 - 6:44 pm:
I put a bitless bridle or a English style hackamore on my horse when I have a soft mouthed horse and a guest rider. That way I don't have to worry about my horse's tender mouth getting an unwarranted bump.
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Friday, Sep 4, 2009 - 6:24 am:
I wish I had done more to inform a neighbor of mine on how I ride my gelding. Having originally been taught by German instructors, I use more leg and weight aids than a western rider. My neighbor is actually experienced, and had ridden my gelding several times successfully. Fortunately I had talked her into getting a riding helmet! When we rode together last, we ended up in the arena because my mare was acting up a bit. My neighbor rode to the far end of the arena and the gelding got spooked by something, bucked her off and ran back to where the mare was. She was very sore, her helmet lining broke, but her head was OK!
I actually think the spook was kind of an excuse - he did not like to be separated from the mare.
I don't know what I would have done except yield the hindquarter, which might have avoided this incident.
Anyway - from now on, I will always demonstrate to guest riders how my horses respond. I am actually quite reluctant to use either of my horses as guest horses - the responsibility is just too great.
Lilo
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Member:
annes
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Posted on Friday, Sep 4, 2009 - 7:13 am:
I agree that the responsibility is too great. Also, I find that none of my horses ride or even remotely act like the same horse with other people. My horses have made me look like a liar when I say "this one is really laid-back and easy going". Then same horse acts like he has never been ridden before! Granted, this was not with experienced riders but I have decided not to let history repeat itself. I think it is great to have horses you can put other riders on but, unfortunately, it doesn't happen at my barn.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Sep 4, 2009 - 7:38 pm:
Erika, did you notice that no one rode while you were here? And, that I kept dragging people to local sights and events instead of to the barn to ride? There's a reason! I long ago quit letting people ride my horses, with the rare exception. I just had too many bad experiences, plus my mom had someone, supposidly a good friend, that taught me a hard lesson about loaning horses. This woman "had ridden for years" yet took a my mom's favorite horse out on the road after being told not to do so since the mare was afraid of the big construction trucks on the road. A truck came along, tooted it's horn (!) the mare bolted and ran, the woman let go of the reins and held on to the saddle horn with both hands. The horse tripped on a rein, fell into the ditch and broke it's neck. The woman was in a coma in the hospital for a couple of weeks. My mom, an RN, stayed by her side the entire time, concerned for her friend, in spite of the loss she felt for her horse. As soon as the woman was well enough, she turned around and sued my mother.
I am very relunctant to share my horses!
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Friday, Sep 4, 2009 - 10:16 pm:
Erika, I winced when I read about Cleo and her experience with jerk and WHOA! Your description of what "works better" for her suggests to me that she might be too nice, too tuned in, and too sensitive for an average rider.
IMHO pre-ride instructions help, but seasoned horse persons will never be able to anticipate all of the crazy, ill-conceived, unwise, and downright foolish actions that average riders might do! I think that we are accustomed to our tuned-in, sensitive, personal horses and forget how insensitive, over-controlling, and unaware some "experienced" riders can be.
I've sent thousands of riders on guided trail rides without serious injuries to horses or riders, but I just won't put my friends on my personal horses. It takes an unusually resilient horse to accommodate unfamiliar riders and tolerate the indignities involved. Many of the best horses for private ownership cannot do it. Horses that can take the stress and do their work generously and patiently are uncommon, and extremely valuable. Quality liveries take good care of them, and they earn their owners good, steady money.
This is my thinking. On a commercial, guided ride, the wrangler is "captain," and can monitor how things are going. The wrangler can insist that the riders stay in a safe, controlled formation, watch for signs of irritation in the horses, prevent the "go-fast" guys and "wannabe cowboys" from killing the horses, themselves, or both. If all else fails, the wrangler can take the horse and make them walk or put a lead-line on the horse.
Who wants to do that with friends?
My personal horses are my partners, my buddies, and I am not up to watching someone misuse them. The fact that they don't know better doesn't change that. Now, if I am paying someone to help my horse with skills better than mine, that's OK. But I don't have any top notch dude horses today, and I no longer carry insurance to protect myself from other people's poor judgment. I do have a few close relatives who I would allow on my horses, but they are family, and they solid horse people. Frankly, with friends I'd rather go riding at a livery stable and spare myself and my poor horses the aggravation. One more thing. I sustained a serious injury while riding with someone who did not know how to ride safely and appropriately in a group. This person owned her horse, and had other horses before that. I never anticipated that she would take off fast for the barn, past my very green 5-year old horse while I was looking the other way. People just do not know as much as they think they do.
I sympathize with your dilemma. It's natural to want to share something that we enjoy. I'm mindful of what a seasoned liveryman said, "If they knew twice what they think they know, they'd know about half of what they need to know."
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 - 4:38 am:
I never thought about being sued, and I am pretty sure our insurance covers someone getting hurt on our property, but I bet not out on a trail ride.
Good points and things to keep in mind.
I do understand where you are coming from Sara.
I wonder if without having a business, you could still have the rider sign something saying they won't sue if something happens? The only time I rented a horse to ride, I know we had to sign some papers. ( and it was a disaster of a ride, my horse keep trying to kick the horse my son was on, and he'd never been on a horse before!)
I ride alone all the time also, unless my teenaged daughter comes with. I can honestly name only 3 other people that I would put on our best horse, Cody.
Suzie, my horses are my buddies & partners too. Your post made me think.
I've personally don't enjoy riding in groups of more than 3; with the 3 being close friends or family. I always find someone being the know it all idiot, or someone who can't manage the horse they are on, which puts everyone else in danger.
Guess I am just an old unsociable woman, lol!
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Member:
terrido
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 - 7:09 am:
fwiw, yes you can always have them sign a liability release, copies of which can be found online in various places. I have always had people sign one. Anyone that might possibly put someone else up on their horse should have one ready to sign.
Now as to allowing people to ride my horses, mostly I don't. Simply put I only have 2 and one is an ex race horse that is completely intolerant of anything but a very experienced rider, so he never gets ridden by anyone (but myself maybe once in a blue moon). And then I have my mare who is a fabulous school master that I can put anyone on and often do. But I don't just let people get on and go off on their own. I want her ridden a certain way so if someone wants to ride her they certainly can, but I have a longe line on her at all times and I coach them. Now if it's a friend that I know can truly ride I let them get on her and go, while I watch and usually coach a bit because she is a perfect school master if you aren't correct she doesn't do it, and tbh most of my friends aren't really correct when they ride haha. As for the novice she is super tolerant - but she is also super sensitive and I wouldn't put it past her to feel an unusual pain a start bucking or protesting somehow - very loudly.
Course for me trails aren't part of it cause we are not near any and I am not a trail person. But if we could do trails around here I would allow certain people to take her out. I would have to know them and how they are with horses though.
It can be very difficult to control things if you just put a person on and off they go. So that decision would just need to be made by the individual, I think. If you aren't comfy with the idea of someone else possibly hurting your horse with bad hands or a bad seat then don't let them ride.
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 - 10:22 am:
Well, guys, a combination of what you all have said, and what I've experienced...I think I am joining the ranks of the "no guest riders" gang.
An old friend was here today and we took a trail ride, and even though everything went perfectly fine, I did notice that my horse was nervous with just the fact that she had a different rider. At this time, I just don't see the point of me worrying, the horse worrying, and the guest worrying. So for now, that is the end of that. It is supposed to be fun, isn't it?
Terrie, you are right, the correct cue must be given for the horse to understand, and no two people ride the same way, nor do most of them concentrate on doing it the right way. Pulling on Cleo's reins will most likely get a head toss instead of a speed check, but people just don't get it and I'm tired of seeing a good horse having a not-so-pleasant experience.
I have a built-in excuse, because my semi-retired older mare will now be completely retired--leaving me no extras to put anyone on anyway!
Erika
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 - 12:03 pm:
Erika,joining this discussion a bit late as my internet was down but just wanted to let you know that my neighbor let's me ride one of her QH geldings. With her to accompany me. And I get a detailed instruction on how to handle 'Dazzler'. And lessons in how to ride a 'western trained' horse although Diane[owner] and me agree that the base isn't different. I learn. And I enjoy, and I think[as she keeps asking me out] Diane and Dazzler enjoy.
So IF you have a guest rider I would say give detailed instructions on what to do and what NOT to do with YOUR horse. People who have there own horses and are careful with them will enjoy and understand that!
Jos
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 - 12:05 pm:
By the way if somebody yanked on the reigns no matter what they said: they would be on the ground in a second[horse or me] and I would probably have lost a friend
Jos
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 - 1:15 pm:
Yes, that's one of the reasons that I do not let friends ride my horses. I value them both too much to subject them to each other 
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Member:
dsibley
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 - 5:47 pm:
I have eleven horses (HOW DID THAT HAPPEN???) and so I am, of course, expected to offer free trail ride services periodically. We definitely start in the arena, and I give clear instruction as to how this horse is trained. I instruct on the 'one rein stop' and use of leg and voice. In theory, all of my horses are tuned in to "whoa, d@*&! it"
My problem is with the people who come to ride horses that I have for sale. Of course, you don't want to stifle a potential sale, but what kind of a home will my baby get with someone who knees him in the gut when she's saddling him (yes, I told her that I don't do that...she ignored me). He is trained to training level dressage, very light in the mouth and to aids. She got on him and fought, fought, fought. Finally she had me ride the horse, and determined that I didn't ride with much 'contact'. Meaning she hauled on the horse's face like she was trying to give him some kind of facelift.
I finally ended the session, and made up my mind that this horse was not suited to this 'lady'. She called and wanted to make an offer on the horse but I told her he was sold. Sorry.
So...I don't care if a horse is for sale, a trail horse, or my trained reining horse. If someone else rides them, it's my way or the highway. Much safer for both rider and horse.
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Member:
leilani
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 - 7:25 pm:
Great discussion. A couple of years ago I let a very good friend of mine and an excellent rider ride Anuhea, my now 8 yo QH.
First thing she did was adjust the bridle up higher. I told her no, Anuhea holds the bit where it is most comfortable for her. I let it go; mistake #1. The arena ride went well for about 2 minutes and then she started asking or should I say telling her to perform tasks she did not know. In a flash, she pulled Anuhea over on top of her. My friend wasn't hurt and neither was my mare. I think she asked/demanded a flying lead change and well they both ended up in the sand. Mistake #2.
Now I don't let anyone ride either of my mares. If I need help, I ask for it, but not on my mares.
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 6, 2009 - 6:26 am:
Oooh, Leilani, that is another thing that bugs me. People changing the tack on a horse that is used to, and doing fine with, a piece of equipment. Amazing, isn't it? I would never presume to change someone's tack setup, unless there was obvious danger--then I just wouldn't get on!
Boy! The more I read about all of your experiences, the more I am confirming to myself that Cleo will now be a one-woman horse! I suppose I will still let my sister on her, but her only vice is that she is simply too lenient...that I suppose I could live with. I think Cleo kind of likes being in charge once in a while !
Erika
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 6, 2009 - 7:11 am:
This thread is chock-full of excellent reasons to avoid mixing our friends and our horses. So many examples of behavior that I wouldn't anticipate from friends because I wouldn't dream of doing it myself. It sounds like we are pretty much in the same boat with that 
Yet, after reading what jos posted, I'll admit that I have accepted (and enjoyed) invitations to go riding with friends using their horses. I always ask them to tell me how they want their horse handled, AND I ask them to let me know DURING the ride if they want me to do (or stop doing) anything, and I mean ANYTHING.
So... after all I've said, I might consider sharing a horse with a friend IF I have ridden with them using THEIR horses, and that went well.
Still there ist he insurance issue. Even if my friend would never sue me if injured, THEIR insurance company would certainly try. For example, when my horse bucked me off during a ride with friends, my medical insurance company looked for someone to sue! I wrote to them saying, "I was riding MY horse, and I was on BLM land, I pay my premiums, things happen, pay up."
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Member:
dsibley
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 6, 2009 - 7:29 am:
I think people just try to impress others with their riding skills (or lack thereof...hehe). They watch RFD TV and see trainers who make this stuff look soooo easy, and wouldn't the owner be impressed if they could get this horse to do what the TV guy did?
Since we're venting, that's another of my pet peeves...trail riding with people who spend the entire ride training their horse. OK, if your horse acts up, definitely correct the behavior. But don't spend the whole ride behind MY horse moving your horse's hindquarters over, doing circles, stopping, making him stand while the others are way ahead, doing figure-8's, etc etc etc. It makes all the other horses jittery when they hear the fancy footwork and snorting. Train your horse in the comfort of your home, please!
Or, there's the one that wants to lead the trail ride, then says 'My horse likes to go real fast!" They do a Hi-ho Silver, and they're off! Trying to hold my horse back is nearly impossible, and the remainder of the ride is spent just trying to keep up. Yeah, I have pretty much limited my trail riding 'buddies' to those who have had the same experiences as me and who just want a nice, quiet ride. On their OWN horse, thank you.
And you are right, if something does happen, the insurance thing can be a nightmare.
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 6, 2009 - 8:18 am:
dieliz, I hear you. Riders who don't know their manners are a hazard to life and limb. I feel much more concern about riding with new companions than I do about riding a new horse.  I've had some good experiences riding with established trail clubs. Checking a club's riding rules helps inform whether the ride will be safe or sorry.
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Member:
hpyhaulr
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 6, 2009 - 8:50 am:
Challenge: explaining to people that if I had to name the best teachers I ever had, they would have to include a list of people I have never met. Thank you guys, you have once again reinforced my instincts and rules. Even more importantly, Tuffy, Sunshine, Mac and Bubba thank you. I absolutely hate when people show up here expecting me to tack up a horse for them and they are green as our grass!
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New Member:
denitia
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 6, 2009 - 8:59 am:
I certainly don't want a guest rider to mistreat my horse. However if we refuse to let others try our horses, what are we saying to the other people? That they are not good enough to sit on my horse? The horse is too precious or valuable for them to ride? The horse is so poorly trained than only an expert like me can ride it?
To you, it may not be important what message others get when you refuse them a chance to ride. I'm not saying to let any yahoo ride your horse. I think we need to be sensitive to the message that we may be sending them with our refusal to let others ride or try our horses.
Personally I screen the potential rider and horse and adjust matters as needed. I give a preride review of that horse's commands and quirks. I start them out in the round pen. I ride and demo the horse's handling before the guest rider mounts. After they mount, I observe the riding process and offer suggestions in a tactful manner. Of course if I feel that things are not right, I will stop the whole process.
I may be more motivated to demo my horses than others, since I ride, train and occasionally sell Peruvian horses for trail horses. Many people would like to try a Peruvian to experience the gait. To each his own, though however if you were never allowed to ride someone else's horse at some time, you probably would not be riding now.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 6, 2009 - 10:06 am:
A few things that came to my mind after reading the latest postings:
I would never dream of asking to ride someone's special horse and if they offered to let me ride him, I would decline most likely, and ask for a "good ol' boy" instead. By special I mean a horse only used to one rider and/or a very valuable horse as in $$$$. ( I rode a high dollar TW stallion one time, nervous as heck he'd get hurt some how with me on him!)
Another thing I do believe is that the more horses we ride, the better riders we become.
And if a horse is rode by others, I don't think it hurts the horse to have a different rider.
BUT...a horse is either brought UP or DOWN to the level of the person riding it. Not from one ride though.
I would love to see more experienced riders ride my horses and give me feedback as to what they think of the horses being I am the one who trained them.
There are many ways to look at this based on your specific situation. I am going to leave it at calling it as I see it at the time.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 6, 2009 - 10:30 am:
I'm with Denitia, I didn't know squat either when I first started riding, no lessons to be had in this area! If people hadn't shared their horses (ponies) with me I would have NEVER been able to ride. My parents couldn't afford a pony for me so MANY MANY other people let me borrow theirs...YES I yanked mouths....YES I made horrible mistakes, but due to the kindness of other people I did learn how to do things better...eventually!
I wouldn't let anyone ride Hank, because he is a handful....but my other good broke horses I used to have ....I shared with beginners and the like.. and helped them, as I was helped. None of the horses were any worse for wear, I could straighten them back up with a couple rides.
I think everyone that has a good broke horse should share the joy that horses can bring (especially if you don't own them)!!!
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Member:
jojo15
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 6, 2009 - 10:59 am:
Good pointss Denitia... be the ambassador when you can.
i've had brandy now for 20 years... she is a great ambassador for kids and parents to let their kids come and experience horses. She has taught not only me, but at least 10 kids over the years. and countless "pony rides".
I don't let people ride her anymore as she is getting a tad cranky and out of shape. but in our hey day, if we stayed in the ring, hell i'd put anyone on her. but like i said in previous post i wouldn't hesitate to yank their butts off if they got yahoo on me. And today, she gets bathed and pampered by any visitor to my house that wants that experience. Just no more riding i don't have the setup for that.
The horse in a ring is far different then a horse on a trail ride. And a horse with a young child is many, many times totally different then with a 200lb male on them. It does a horse good to get them to experience other riders. or styles. weights. Its just only something i would ever do in a ring. Closed. confined. contained.
My TB? forget it she was just a mess with new people i couldn't trust her and rarely took her out to meet and greet.
Some of my greatest joys come from old friends kids who still remember their "first ride" remember brandy's name. tell me explicitly what they did that day 10 years ago, etc. I think brandy loves it too.
this thread migrated from one what if? to something different. Never be afraid to allow someone to learn from your horse. And if you have the generally normal horse to put a novice on them with your instruction. I think this is far different then someone saddling up and both going for a "ride" out in the unknown, with a "rider" of mysterious capability. but needless, its your horse, your rules. like the poster way up top said.
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 6, 2009 - 11:08 am:
Recently, a 12-year old neighbor came by and asked if she could start riding my horse. She insisted that she was a good rider, that she barrel-raced in rodeos. When I said "no" she got her nose out of joint. The reality is that I do know better than she whether she can handle the horse, and the fact that she wants to ride him does not entitle her to him. If she got hurt, and believe me she could have, who's responsibility would it be?
Starting out, I cleaned stalls and did chores in exchange for rides, and later I worked summer jobs at camps and riding stables. I read every single book on horses in our town's public library too. When I got older and got my own horses, I learned from people who knew more than I do, and I paid them with money or work for sharing their knowledge. It helped me appreciate and value the horses and not just the riding.
I would be more inclined to help a kid with a passion for horses learn to ride than I would be to let someone ride my horse. Some of us have suitable horses for inexperienced or "experienced" riders (I prefer the inexperienced riders myself, and least they KNOW that they don't know everything), but I think many people have horses that are not desensitized enough for this purpose.
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 6, 2009 - 11:48 am:
As I am reading this thread, I see many different viewpoints. Yes, it is nice if you can share a horse with someone who has never experienced it. But, you have to have the right horse.
We had the perfect guest horse once - a well trained quarterhorse, retired from drill team because of navicular synDrOme. He belonged to my daughter and everyone in the family agrees that he was one in a million. We lost him at age 16 to cancer and still mourn his loss. We then had another quarterhorse who never became steady enough for a guest horse. We lost him to a broken leg. My mare (1/2 Arab/1/2 Saddlebred) was never suited to the guest horse role due to her temperament. So, we got the Rocky Mountain Horse who we hoped would turn into another guest horse. He is the one I discussed in the thread above - who dumped my friend and neighbor in the arena. Now I am the only one riding him.
So - just to reiterate - I am not trying to keep people from the enjoyment of horses. I would love a another perfect guest horse, but I can only afford two. When I put my grandson on the gelding, it is in a small corral, with me right there.
I have had friends offer me rides on their horses (some people wish they could get more saddle time on their horses) but I always said I would only ride their horse if they could come along on another of their horses so they would know exactly how I handled their horse. It never seemed to work out.
And - as a final comment: there just is no such thing as a totally bombproof horse, especially out on a trail. There is always a risk. Deer can be very scary if they suddenly and without warning come racing out of the oak brush. Rattlesnakes, mountain lions, bears - they have all been encountered on the trail by friends of mine.
Lilo
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 6, 2009 - 12:15 pm:
One thing I would like to add: A few very good friends and fi two of my best teachers/instructors, from time to time put me on their horses. All of the horses were exceptionally well trained horses[ranging from two International level dressage horses over high up national showjumpers to YES Sara's two 'Boys' whom by the way I enjoyed most because they were so kind and unfrightening]
I never asked, the owners offered out of their own free will, a few of them never having seen me on a horse but they all saw me handle/spoil horses. They ALWAYS stood next to me to see what was going on, it was very clear from the moment I put a foot in the stirrup I had to obey first owner then horse[or vice versa] and it gave me great pleasure even just to walk them after work. A well trained horse will always teach you something.
Also I have quite often put people on my horses. They usually had an ego that was able to handle most riders [believe me one of my favourite mares when offended sat on the ground until the rider would get off another one got mad during a 'parcours' of showjumping and lay down until I whistled and then got calmly up and walked towards the gate and me, leaving a crying would be 'Young Rider' behind. I think it was instructive for the riders. OFCOURSE I would not let someone I did not trust near the young ones. But on the whole most people I offered got along very well with the horses and it was a joy to see them go under the saddle [you cannot see yourself!] especially with a much better rider then myself.
So I would just say: go with your instinct, do the horse and friend seem a match? And ask the friend to stop if you disagree withwhatever goes on, anybody who doesn't understand I can afford
to loose as a friend.
I think if we do not share our 'prides and joy' we miss out on a lot too.
Jos
PS Oh and Erika I bet Cleo votes YES for occasionally taking your sister out, being leader for once in a while is fun too!
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 6, 2009 - 5:12 pm:
Denitia, aren't you the voice of reason coming back in here! Thanks for reminding us that not every horse is a hothouse flower suited only to our talents.
I have had horses that were well trained and dependable that I had no problem putting responsible guests on. In fact, at dinner tonight , several friends talked about their wild rides on Timmy, my little Morgan who passed away a couple of years ago at the ripe old age of 35. My kids learned to ride on him, and several friends did too. But tonight everyone had a story of the "time that Timmy took off" or "Timmy took a sharp right instead of following straight", or even when "Timmy jumped the coop he was supposed to go around. You told me Timmy WOULD NOT JUMP!" Ha ha!
Thank goodness nobody sued me! But I was reminded that one can get joy from riding as a guest sometimes, even if the experience comes with a few bruises.
I guess I started this as a result of not having that great old timer anymore. Sugar, the Saddlebred, is plainly not suited to just anyone riding her. She is very forward and sensitive. My teenage hunter pace partner is the only one who has ever gotten on her and understood what a magnificent ride she is. She loves riding Sugar as much as I do. Anyone else was very intimidated. So the teen rides her. Nobody else does. ( Although now, I don't think any of us will ride her much, I think she's earned retirement.)
Cleo is still young and not fully mission capable yet. I just don't like to see her confused and frustrated while she is still getting the nuts and bolts of riding under her girth. And I just don't need anyone else "training her for me". Nor do I ever want to see her dump someone out of misunderstanding.
But yes, if not for the kindness and generosity of many mentors, I would not be in the position I am now of deciding who gets to ride my fur-kids.
It's nice to hear how everyone handles this. And thank you all for weighing in. Boils down to some you can loan, some you can't....and when you do, make sure your instructions are clear, right?
Erika
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Monday, Sep 7, 2009 - 5:59 am:
Erika, I think that sums up quite nicely what most of us seem to think!
Jos
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 8, 2009 - 6:58 am:
Jos,as you noted, you were in an arena under close supervision when you were on Mikey and Waseem! I guess after my tirade above I should admit that I will let someone on some of my horses under a watchful eye and in the arena. I don't want people trying to "fix" or "train" my horses, however, no matter how good a rider they are; I want them to just sit there and ask the horse to do what he knows how to do, and I want them to ask in the same way I would ask. The exception might be if I was having a problem with a horse and I knew someone was a respected trainer, whose methods I was familiar with and approved of...then I might ask they to show me how to overcome a certain problem.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 8, 2009 - 7:47 am:
That was exactly what I was trying to get across Sara! Close supervision and agreeing that the 'guest' should listen to horse and owner is imo key[to learning for the guest and no problem to the owner]
The exception you mention is I think having a 'trainer' ride your horse, that's completely different from giving a friend the pleasure to 'feel' your horses.
Perhaps most of the problems arise when the invited rider wants to take the 'trainer' role instead of the offered 'guest'role.
Jos
PS Though it always gave me pleasure to sit/feel horses of friends afterwards it made me horribly nervous and uncomfortable DURING the ride, even on a bombproof guesthorse I will when not supervised usually end up with a horse asleep under me in a corner
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