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Discussion on Bucking, stop and DrOp
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New Member:
equidae
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2009 - 9:10 pm:
I recently acquired a two year old quarter horse filly and with her a set of problems. I have not ridden her because she is just too young and I do not want to damage her bones, which are still soft and growing. The previous owner advised that she had acquired the filly from a lady who stated that all that been done to her (training wise) was to halter her. The previous owner did not believe her and found some saddle issues.
The person that I acquired her from stated that the filly was pushy, but would walk, trot and gallop forward under saddle. She stated that the filly would crow-hop going into a gallop. When her boyfriend rode the filly she would buck, bolt and otherwise react unfavorably. The last time this happened they took the filly to a round pen and when the boyfriend got on her she immediately collapsed on the ground without even a step forward. As she got up the boyfriend got back on her as she was rising and this scenario was repeated a number of times. The last time she got up with the boyfriend on her back she just stood still.
Right now I am thinking, youth and girth problems and would appreciate any input that anyone has as to why she keeps falling down at a stop. Vet check did not provide any insight into behavior of the filly.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2009 - 8:34 am:
Hello Frank I have seen horses that responded to things they disliked (tying, saddling, even injections in a mini) by throwing themselves to the ground. The dislike in some cases could be associated with pain but often it seemed to a dislike of a nonpainful event, like restraint.
There are also potential medical causes of such a collapse as narcolepsy or other type procedure. These are not uncommon problems in the horse and one of the activating factors has been associated with saddling. For more on this see, Diseases of Horses » Nervous System » Seizures & Fainting.
DrO
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2009 - 10:14 am:
Hi Frank and welcome to HA. I am sure many others will respond, but here is my two cents worth. This horse is very young and has been given too much for her young mind and body to handle. She is falling as a means of resisting. Step way back with her. Give her some time to grow up a little. Go back to the basics of haltering, leading, picking up hooves . . . all the groundwork. Take your time, build her trust. When she is old enough and seems ready, begin introducing tack. Let her tell you when she is ready for the next steps. I am not sure what your background is as far as training a youngster, but if you don't have the experience, then seek help from a qualified trainer. I highly recommend using Natural Horsemanship techniques as they are very good for horses with "issues". One of my favorite web pages for NH training with a youngster is https://www.kbrhorse.net/pag/train.html
I also like Clinton Anderson a lot, but there are numerous people out there teaching this type of training.
Good luck and let us know how things go.
Linda
P.S. You have made a very wise choice in joining HA. Good people with oodles of knowledge.
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Member:
terrido
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2009 - 11:20 am:
Hi Frank, and also welcome! fwiw, I agree 100% with Linda. Let this little girl grow up, and work on the relationship.
I cannot think of anything more frightening than to see a horse throw itself to the ground to get away from whatever. It's as if the horse is saying, ok, I give up, kill me now please, and probably a last resort action. Very sad.
Hopefully she won't want to do that in future, but only time will tell of course. Best of luck!
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2009 - 1:09 pm:
Hate to restate what has already been said, but I have to agree with the others. Sounds like this young filly needs time to grow up, a chance to learn manners (from the ground) and most importantly, a chance to learn to trust.
I'd start her completely from scratch - forget that she has any training, and start completely fresh and very slowly. Again, I'm only refering to basic handling and ground work.
Good luck to you and keep us posted.
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Member:
liliana
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Posted on Friday, Oct 2, 2009 - 2:39 pm:
Ditto to all above, time heals all wounds, she will forget the bad experience of being pushed too soon.
And starting from scratch will also create a bond between the two of you and when that happens...the miracle of becoming one with your horse begins!
Welcome to this great site, you will love it as much as we do!
Liliana
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 3, 2009 - 2:18 pm:
Some of us already know that I am opinionated, so let me preface this comment with my acknowledgment that this is my opinion, and though I believe it, I know that it's not likely that I'm 100% right. With that caveat read on.
We have majority agreement here that this problem most likely has roots in primitive, provocative handling.In my opinion, some horses react this way from being terribly anxious and restrained or confined at the same time. Sometimes their reaction is out of proportion to the circumstances as we see them, but we need to understand that they don't know what's going to actually happen and we do.
We can't know for certain, but the comments from those previous owners suggest that they were rough, abrupt, and perhaps even cruel with your filly (not necessarily intentional). Perhaps they believed that "pushy" meant aggressive rather than anxious/distracted, and they reacted primitively.
We know that horses are prey animals, and Peter Levine describes prey animal fear reactions: fight, flight, and freeze. In reference to "freeze," he states, "Prey animals are immobilized in a sustained (cataleptic-catatonic) pattern of neuromuscular activity and high autonomic and brain wave activity. Sympathetic and parasympathetic responses are also concurrently activated, like brake and accelerator, working against each other."
IMO, she'll carry those experiences with her for life, and that doesn't mean that she's ruined. It will take attentive, clear, and patient handling especially at first, and later when she's feeling pressure and is uncertain what is wanted from her. To start, she'll learn that she can succeed with you in numerous small, easy lessons. Hopefully, she'll learn to look to you for direction and support rather than go to extreme fear reactions. Since these fear memories have roots in her her experiences under saddle, she'll need to learn to manage her anxiety by looking to you for direction.
I think that this is one lucky filly to get another chance in life. You clearly care about working with her in a helpful way. I hope that the two of you have a rich, interesting, and safe journey together.
Temple Grandin discusses this from her thought provoking perspective in in Animals Make Us Human: Creating the Best Life for Animals (2009).
Grandin, T. (2009). Animals make us human: Creating the best life for animals. Orlando, FL: Houghton Mifflin Harcourt.
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New Member:
equidae
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 6, 2009 - 2:45 pm:
Hi everyone, thanks for the responses
After reading several articles about diseases, fainting and nerve disorders, I wonder if my horse problem of "stop and DrOp" could be a case of narcolepsy. I understand that it can be induced in horses prone to having narcolepsy by rough handling and restraining the horse too much. I read in one article that if the stop and DrOp activity occurred two or three times it could possibly be learned behavior. However, this horse stopped and DrOpped over ten times in a short period which seems a bit much. All responses appreciated.
Frank
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 7:01 am:
The difference should be clear looking at the horse Frank, the resistant or painful horse will be awake while the other asleep. Does the horse "throw" himself down or does he collapse?
DrO
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