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  Discussion on Kicking the bucket (literally...)
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Member:
imogen

Posted on Sunday, Jan 10, 2010 - 5:48 am:

Dear all

I have an 18 month old that constantly knocks over the feed bucket kicking and pawing. I have tried standing with her and smacking the pawing leg but the moment I turn my back to do another chore she does it again.

It appears to be hunger/excitement as she is not a particularly aggressive animal. Her mother likes to pick up one front leg to show delight at food - this is just an unfortunately messy and wasteful version of the same thing.

Solutions? Bucket in tyre so it can't be knocked over? I've found using a light flexible two handled bucket is slightly less prone to upset because the feed tends to stay inside.

Thanks for any tips or hints!

Imogen
Member:
cheryl

Posted on Sunday, Jan 10, 2010 - 7:51 am:

Imogen I don't know if you can use this or not - when Robberman went to the trainer he had a horrible pawing habit. The lady who transported and boarded him when he was rescued thought pawing - among other really bad behaviors - was cute. He was pawing while Michelle was tacking him up - she hobbled him. I don't know how many times she had to use the hobbles but it worked. He will still paw when getting ready to eat but all I have to do is "ehhh" him and he stops. Before all he would do is switch feet and paw even faster.
Member:
mysi

Posted on Sunday, Jan 10, 2010 - 8:18 am:

Imogen, I have a friend who had a horse who pawed all the time and she hobbled her as well and it worked, it took about 3 months or so if I remember correctly. My neighbors horse that I keep here paws really bad at feeding time only. I usually feed in the stalls with a handing corner feeder and he can't knock that over. When I do feed him outside he will immediately knock over the bucket so I have to tie a flat back bucket to the fence for him and that solved the problem. I have mine tied on the gate because I have electric wire on the fence. I just disconnect the wire across the top of the gate until he's done.
Member:
maggienm

Posted on Sunday, Jan 10, 2010 - 8:29 am:

I think it will partly depend on your youngsters personality.

I had a mare who simply seemed to prefer the food out of the bucket. I never did cure her of it, just learned to manage it.
Attaching the bucket to something was about the only way I was able to prevent her from tipping it over.
Here are some of the solutions I tried during various situations:
fixing the bucket to the fence, one time with rope, didn't like that because I couldn't take the bucket down and clean it, not that there was ever any reason to clean it after her because she always polished the bucket clean.
one time I put a large metal clip through a large rubber pan and then clipped it to a rope I had fixed on a post near ground level,
if I fed her in a stall I used a bucket with a flat side and clipped it to the wall.

fed her out of a hay feeder,

Sometimes for one reason or another if I didn't have a tied down pan I would just pick a spot where the ground was clean and feed her there.
I mean they eat off the ground anyway....

I have one of those rubber feed pans, I screwed it to a length of 2x4, this greatly increased its stability but if she was persistent she could still tip it over.
This pan works great for the ones who have to share and like to pull the pan a bit closer to themselves. It is more likely to stay upright.

I have had limited results in actually teaching not to paw.
If I am present, like Cheryl, I can stop the behaviour with a growl, but it often resumes as soon as I am not looking or not in sight.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Sunday, Jan 10, 2010 - 10:00 am:

I've heard of putting a chain around the horses lower leg so that they snap themselves with it when they paw. Depending on the horse, it could be a good idea, or it may make the matter worse if it scares her. I would think a light chain if you did that. Like a small dogs choke chain.

If you have a lot of time and patience, plant yourself someplace and have a bunch of small pebbles ready. Paws, you toss a stone at her. Won't scare her much, but will get her attention and her mind off the pawing behavior.

The chain would "self train" the other method is more on you.

If you use a chain, I'd pad above the coronet band, and make sure it's only long enough to circle around the leg, and a short length left loose. I've never tried this method, just read about it, so error on the side of caution.

What a stinker huh??
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Sunday, Jan 10, 2010 - 2:12 pm:

Imogen,

I have had similar problems and have handled this differently in each case. It really depends on the feeding situation.

1. If horse is stalled- Either hang the feed tub higher, so the pawing foot can't knock the feed out of the bucket.
2. Feed in a water bucket or a feed tub and bungee it to the wall.
3. Feed outside the stall. As long as she can not bang her knees on the gate or get hung up in any webbing.

If fed outside, and you do not want to feed on the ground. Use a stall mat or a piece of old carpeting ( some horses are scared of the black mat) and don't use a feed tub, just dump the grain on the mat.

Feed her the grain on top of her hay.

I've also used a big rubber( very heavy tire) with a feed tub and a feed tub ring. If the tire gets flipped the feed remains in the tub because of the ring.

I know they make devices used to stop horses from kicking that have tennis balls attached to them. But they are for back legs. You might be able to make some like that for her front legs. I never really liked these things. A girl that used to work for me used to use a water pistol and sit across the way from the horse, the minute the horse went to paw, he'd get zapped with the water pistol( A big blaster). The horse never knew where it came from. It took a few days, but it did work.

Rachelle
Member:
imogen

Posted on Monday, Jan 11, 2010 - 2:47 am:

Thanks everyone!

I'm going to start with the easy option and hang a bucket over the stable door (my stables are in very old buildings and have solid 2 ft thick stone walls, so not a lot to tie too...

If that doesn't work I think I'll have a go at bucket in a tyre followed by the water pistol. Will report back. Glad to know I am not the only one with this problem and that it is quite intractable.

Did any of you notice whether the affected horse also had other training issues or is it just a daft habit some of them develop?

Imogen
Member:
maggienm

Posted on Monday, Jan 11, 2010 - 7:28 am:

Hanging a bucket didn't work with my mare, she would bump the bucket down before she was finished what was in it. That's when I tried tying the bucket, had to drill holes in the handles, once I got the bucket secured so she couldn't knock it down I couldn't get it down either. Didn't like that. If you have to tie your bucket hope you have better ideas.

Thinking about this I remembered something else I did with her.
To help her get over being nervous of tarps I fed her hay on a small piece, instead of giving her a bucket I would dump contents on the tarp.
She didn't mind that and the product stayed clean.

To answer your other question regarding training, this was the only 'issue' this mare had. She was an absolute doll.
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Monday, Jan 11, 2010 - 7:54 am:

Lori,

I've always had good luck securing buckets using bungee cords( the black rubber ones) with double end snaps. You can use as many as you want depending on how intent your horse is at knocking the bucket down and they are easy to release so you can clean your buckets.

Rachelle
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Monday, Jan 11, 2010 - 8:57 am:

"SRBH Bucket Hook $2.95 each

The SRBH Bucket Hooks are sold individually, or come in a counter top display of 25. They are simple to use and install. Animals cannot knock off bucket once attached. No springs or moving parts to jam or rust."

lancaster supply I think it was...

I did a google search for bucket hook and this was the first site that popped up with the bucket hooks I use. They are only $3. TSC, Rural King, Feed Store,...etc. should have them. Mine are powder coated black. The circle around the actual hook keeps the horse's eye safer in my opinion than a regular hook.

I screwed mine to the inside of the stall using a rounded head stainless steel screw with a counter sunk phillips thread so I there would be no sharp edges. I picked mine up at an industrial supply house for under a $1.

I use flat back rubber buckets with the upside down V notch in the handle. So far even the one "busy" Haflinger hasn't managed to knock it off and he can destroy, unhook, unlatch,...anything.

Perhaps it will work in your feeding situation?

If you are using five gallon buckets, do a search for bucket rings and there are several inexpensive rings. Some fold flat when not in use, some stick out always. Under $20. I would use the same type screws to mount them to minimize sharp edges.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Monday, Jan 11, 2010 - 9:01 am:

Imogene, I just reread your post and see that you have stone walls. You can use tapcon concrete screws to attach the bucket hooks. Of course you will need a hammer drill to bore the screw holes.

If you feel the stone is too crumbly and a screw will pull out, you can epoxy the screw in with some industrial quick set epoxy. I can look it up for you if you think it might work in your stall situation.
Member:
stek

Posted on Monday, Jan 11, 2010 - 12:45 pm:

UGH what an annoying habit! I have a couple that do the same thing. If you have trouble getting something attached to the wall I have had great luck with the heavy rubber feed tub inside a rubber tire. They are very hard to tip over. You can even partially fill the tire with concrete, rocks, sand etc to weight it down before inserting the feed tub.

You could also try a nose bag, that's the only thing that works for my mare who would otherwise take the largest bite possible, then spit it out on the ground, then eat from there.
Member:
simonem

Posted on Monday, Jan 11, 2010 - 7:51 pm:

My horse has this irritating habit too, and after a dozen or so attempts, we found the easiest way to keep him from tossing and pawing it in a 10 foot radius around him is to simply dump it straight on the ground. He seems to just not want to eat from a container. We feed hay in containers too, and his first move is to knock it over.

We sweep clean about a 4' long, 2' wide area in the front of his stall (there are rubber mats) and just lay his grain out in a 3' long line. It has worked remarkably well.

Also, this may not be feasible for everyone, but a friend of mine had a pretty good idea she used on one of her horses several years ago. She hung a bucket from a tree branch (I suppose the branch must have been taller than her horse's head) and fed the grain in there. That way they can toss the bucket all they want, but it is impossible to toss grain out or tip over.
Member:
erika

Posted on Monday, Jan 11, 2010 - 8:32 pm:

Annoying, yes. I had a half draft mare that knocked over buckets on the ground, and if the bucket was hung, she would swing her head through it and sweep the grain out all over the stall!

I finally gave up and did what Simc does. I swept a corner of the stall clean to the rubber mat and just let her eat it there. This horse was a stall-banger extraordinaire! Sometimes you just can't fight city hall! Ha ha!
Member:
juliem

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 12, 2010 - 12:03 am:

I've seen feeders advertised that consist of a heavy rubber mat with the feed tub (not a bucket) attached. They look to be about 3 to 4 feet square. The horse may be pawing with one foot, but the other is holding the whole thing down! Might be able to configure something similar--I know you're pretty creative and handy!
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