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Discussion on Bitting Advice
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New Member:
rackn1
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 27, 2010 - 11:34 am:
I have an almost 6 year old walking horse gelding that I have been riding for 3 years. He had 2 weeks of 'starting'under saddle by a trainer with a bosal and then I took over. I am a lifelong self taught rider and unfortunately my horses have had to suffer with my learning.  I was raised in the old school walking horse thought of starting off in a Tom Thumb and then moving up to a straight, long shanked curb and never looking back. So I started this horse that way. I never had any serious problems but I also never felt that he really was accepting the bit and enjoying the ride.
So I started reading and discovered that ignorance really is bliss. I am so worried about what I am doing to my horse's mouth that I cannot enjoy the ride!
The first thing I bought was an Imus bit (after reading all these wonderful testimonials). The bit was way too big for him and slid around in his mouth and he didn't really respond at all in it. I just think the whole thing confused him. The one thing he did seem to like about that bit is the way it sat in his mouth at a rest. Maybe the tongue room?
Then I tried a standard walking horse bit and then a curb with a 5" shank and low wide port. Again, not serious issues with either one, but he doesn't seem to really 'like' them. He resists the bit. When I gently pull, I can feel him pulling back. If he is feeling lazy and not moving out correctly and I ask him to bring his head back up collect himself and get going, he will do it, but he I can feel him gently resist. For the most part he performs well so I think that is why these bits are 'getting me by'.
Recently I have been having problems with him in groups. He can't stand being behind the group and wants to charge forward. I have been working on settling him down and teaching him that he can't barrel forward and while he is improving, I have had to consistently be asking him to slow down and I can really feel that resistance. He is grabbing at the bit with his lips and pulling on me.
I trail ride and to be a better rider is a personal goal for the love of horses, not for any sort of competition. I genuinely want my horse to be comfortable. I am not trying to find a 'fix it' bit. I am trying to find a bit that he is comfortable in and responsive to.
So I guess my question is, where do I start? Do you think he is resisting to the action on the bars of his mouth and needs something with more tongue pressure? Or does he need more tongue relief. I keep wondering that since he did seem to like the way the Imus bit rested in his mouth.
All this reading I have done and these conflicting schools of thought has really confused me. I am now so overwhelmed that I don't know where to turn. I even called Mylers and they recommended a combination bit. I took one look at that contraption online and doubted my ability to properly use it. Any advice will be appreciated.
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Member:
boots
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 27, 2010 - 1:44 pm:
Joanie - Do you dare try a bitless bridle? My walking horse came with a contraption for a bridle and bit that you would not believe. I put him in a bitless (Dr. Cook's) bridle and he is fine. He is 14, and aside from the fact that I can't get used to walking horse gaits (my quarter horse paint is what I am used to)I plan to stick with the bitless. I use one exclusivly on the paint as well. Do be careful and try this in a safe place.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 27, 2010 - 1:49 pm:
Joanie I can commiserate. Going from a bosal to a tom thumb is quite a rude awakening
Things I have learned with this problem...look to the hands controlling the bit.
Does your horse know leg and seat aids... work on them.
I have gone to the bitless bridle and for my horse that has worked wonderfully, his resistance is gone.
Have you considered going back to a bosal, sidepull, bitless bridle, and see what his response is?
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New Member:
rackn1
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 27, 2010 - 3:37 pm:
How funny that you all suggest the bitless bridle b/c I had never heard of one until today and I just bought one!
After posting this morning, I spent the majority of the day researching this website and found a post on Dr. Cook's bridle. After reading the post I went to the website and spent several hours researching. I finally decided that my horse's happiness was worth the money spent on buying it for a trial.
I then came back here to check the forum and see it has been suggested! I
I have been working on leg and seat aids and am conscious of my hands. This is not to say that I am always sending the right signal, but I am trying!
I am not afraid of going bitless. My concerns with a bosal or a hackamore were concerning my own ignorance in using them and I did not want to do any damage. 85% of the time I don't worry about control with my boy - he is willing and calm. I just don't feel that he is comfortable in the bits I have used.
My only concern will be when I get in the group situation and he gets keyed up and wants to charge to the front of the group. Will I be able to control him with the bitless? Countless testimonials of riders with the same issues claim that their horses responded beautifully - better.
So we shall see.
I am a bit confused about using the bridle, but I see it comes with an instruction manual. Any advice that you all have to offer on the use of this bridle will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 27, 2010 - 4:20 pm:
Joanie you use it like any bitted bridle, if you neck rein that takes a little practice, but as far as direct reining nothing is different
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 27, 2010 - 4:49 pm:
Having had a couple of walkers years back, we got caught up in the "special bits for TWers." If I had known then what I know now, they would have been rode in a snaffle. My motto is when in doubt about bits, go back to a snaffle..2 or 3 part.
When having issues, go back to a snaffle and work on basics. When the horse isn't comfortable, check teeth, and..go back to a snaffle.
I have the famous Imus bit, and am not impressed. The selling point it fits all sizes of mouths is bull. Once in awhile I use it just for a change as I think that's a good thing for horses, but I always go back to a snaffle.
I hope you like the bitless bridle but it sounds to me like you are spending alot of money collecting bits there!
Best of luck!
I miss my TW btw, just had him at the wrong time in my life. His momma was a nut case, but he was sweet.
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Member:
cheryl
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 28, 2010 - 9:19 am:
Joanie - I have a 10 yo TW gelding - "GO" seems to be hard wired in his head. The only thing I use on him is the bitless - I use it exactly the same way I use a snaffle. When I first started riding him with it I was a little concerned about being able to control him - Not a problem - The bits people put on Walkers are just mind boggling - Try riding in an enclosed area first - think you'll find he responds just fine - Have fun
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New Member:
rackn1
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 28, 2010 - 9:28 am:
Thanks to everyone for responding. I have spent several hours researching the bitless bridle online and the funny thing is that I haven't been able to find many negative reviews. I guess this is a good thing.
I will anxiously await its arrival and report on how it works for us.
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New Member:
rackn1
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 28, 2010 - 11:02 am:
Ok, after a bit more researching I did find some negative feedback
One big concern is runaway horse. I see a few people on this site have commented that unruly horses were able to 'run away' with them.
While my horse has never 'run away' with me in the bit I have on a couple of occasions had him fight me pretty hard to try and run up another horse's butt.
Now I realize that this is a training problem and there is no tool out there that is going to fix it and we are working on the issue. In the meantime I do not want to get run away with.
Any feedback?
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 28, 2010 - 12:10 pm:
Make sure your horse knows how to move off pressure and learn the one rein stop .
My horse is the dancing, prancing idiot, with a mind of his own. I was worried about this also, but he has never even tried to run through the bitless...In the snaffles he was very resistant. I find he has a BETTER stop in the bitless bridle.
All horses are different so of course you should experiment in a safe place until you feel confident, if you are not confident it may show up as bad behavior... or testing.
I think you'll like it and yes let us know how it goes.
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Member:
cheryl
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Posted on Monday, Mar 1, 2010 - 9:04 am:
Joanie - do you have anything resembling a round pen/arena? When you get your bitless do a bunch of pressure/release training. Lowering his head to pressure should be repeated and repeated and repeated - and then repeated some more - do a lot of transitions - I've used my bitless on both my horses - have never had a problem with either one. Just remember that horses are very perceptive - if you are envisioning a wild-eyed runaway ride - that is what you might get Think quite - think responsive - and smile - It's hard to be worried when you are smiling.
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Member:
rackn1
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Posted on Monday, Mar 1, 2010 - 9:44 am:
Cheryl - I do have a round pen. I agree that pressure/release training is a good idea. When you say 'lowering' the head to pressure, do you mean in the BB? Would you mind elaborating on that one?
Thanks for the advice.
I am not afraid of this horse or of his running away with me in the BB and I obviously don't plan on taking him out on a 20 mile group trail ride immediately I just want to make sure that I cover all the bases and get as much feedback as possible.
I think I need to learn some more about ground work exercises. I am hoping to start getting together with a trainer once a week this spring to learn more.
Thank you all for all the advice!! This is a great forum!
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Member:
cheryl
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Posted on Monday, Mar 1, 2010 - 10:15 am:
Lowering the head is just giving the head to pressure - both to the sides and lowering the head - Yes in the BB - It should be done until it's almost you think it and he does it - Can't wait for you to get your BB and try it out - Be sure to let us know how it works - I would be willing to bet that both you and your horse will love it.
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Member:
cometrdr
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Posted on Monday, Mar 1, 2010 - 11:07 am:
I have a 10 yr old TWH/QH cross. when I first got him he hated bits and would chew, pull shake his head all kinds of stuff. His teeth were fine too - it was the bit. I put him in an english Hackamore instead - just a simple rolled leather nose peice - and it works fantastic. he collects now minds does all the good things horses are supposed to do. we have a BB too (like that Joanie a BB for Bitless Bridle!) we like if fine - its made small for my arab's head so I never used it on my TWH head (which is HUGE btw) its ok. I'm not entirely sold on it - as its a wee bit difficult to get on the arabs head. hes real good with bridling but you have to pull here and adjust there - I ride him with just a halter anyway so I never use it any more. - When my hubbie rides with me we ususally use the bitless. You will like it. But I am sold on the English Hack. Love it - Bought it from Stateline Tack when they were in Petsmart a long time ago. very sturdy peice of equipment.
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Member:
rackn1
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 9, 2010 - 7:56 pm:
Bitless Bridle - so far so good.
I rode my gelding in the bitless Saturday and today. We worked in the round pen on Saturday for about 30 minutes before I went out on the trail. He responded very well. Honestly, better than in a bit. I do not feel that I have any less control than with a bit. On Saturday's ride we rode past a field of horses that ran up to us and caused him to become agitated and today he tried to speed up to head back to the barn. I never felt out of control in either circumstance.
He does not pull back on me nearly as much as with a bit. However, a couple times when I have asked him to halt he has stretched his head out and down as if trying to evade some contact/pressure which leads me to wonder if I have the bridle fitted correctly. I am going to email customer service about that. The 'one finger under the noseband' seems a bit vague. I have it pretty snug, not cutting off circulation, but snug. I can def. put one finger under at the chin b/c there is a cleft there. The top of the nose has room too but the sides are pretty snug.
I think both of us are trying to figure out how this is going to work gaiting. He used to lean on the bit when I collected him up to gait. He wants to do the same in this bridle and when I give him more of his head he breaks out of his gait into a long extended trot and then back into a rack and then proceeds to go back and forth.
This is a horse that gaits naturally in the field so I know it is 'natural' for him to gait.
I am not 'fighting' my horse when I ride in this bridle. So far I am very pleased. We need to continue to expand our experiences in the bitless before I can give 100% feedback. I have yet to ride out in a group for one thing.
However, so far I am impressed and really like what I see.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 9, 2010 - 9:12 pm:
Sounds like it is going well Joanie. I didn't get a real good feel for mine until we had many rides under our belt in it. This spring for our first ride ( I don't ride in the winter) and Hank is usually quite fresh. I debated putting a bit on, I guess old habits die hard, I put the bitless in and we had a wonderful first spring ride.
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 - 9:40 am:
I am interested in your experience, Joanie. I have a Rocky Mountain gelding who is not naturally gaited, and I am riding him "like a quarterhorse" right now, which he seems to prefer.
Not wanting to spend the money on a Dr Cooks bridle, I got a synthetic, braided bitless. I have only tried it once, in a confined area. I would like to work with it more this summer - I like the idea of bitless, although he is doing quite well in a walking horse, shanked bit that has short shanks and a very slight port.
If nothing else, I might put it on when my grandson rides so he can't pull on the horse's mouth - that would be in a confined area.
I am interested in your updates.
Good luck,
Lilo
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Member:
rackn1
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Posted on Friday, Mar 19, 2010 - 8:12 pm:
Another update.
Today I went to a public trail with a friend. It was our first ride out together since this awful winter.
At first both of our horses were a bit rusty and we had a few minor spooks, etc.
My friend's horse in particular was not collecting and he would sort of run ahead causing my horse to get agitated. This is a problem in general that I am working on with him so I was thinking no big deal. I am used to the fight and we were doing well last fall and making huge improvements before I had to lay off riding for a while due to winter weather. I know he needs refresher work and he needs work in the bitless.
He was responding well as far as bending/turning/halt go at a calm pace and even when my friend's horse ran ahead I didn't feel out of control but he did feel that he was still sticking his nose out in the air and charging forward trying to evade me when he wanted to catch up.
He definitely isn't collecting and gaiting out consistently but I am in the process of trying to figure out if that is a lameness issue or a training/control issue. - so more on that later.
Then we had a problem. We were heading back to the trailers at this point, but still several miles out and decided to pick up the pace for a bit.
My friend started to canter and her horse still wasn't collected and was really covering some ground leaving me behind. My horse naturally wanted to keep up. Usually he keeps up really well with a fast rack and I don't have any problems. Today we had problems (see my other post on stifle issues) and I was really having to work to keep him from running off with me. He was ignoring the bridle as much as he could and I was holding on for my life. Then my friend's horse spooked and she came off. My horse spooked in turn and as I had no control so I did the best I could to collect the reins and keep my seat. I ended up jumping off to save myself and in the end all horses and riders were fine
But the bottom line is I had little control for about 15 seconds.
I don't know..I am not giving u[ on this bridle yet. I didn't ever really feel that I had NO control whatsover... just not much.
Who is to say that the same thing wouldn't have happened in a bit. And this is obviously a training issue and my horse needs to figure out that he cannot always have his way and run to keep up.
If I can hold him with a curb chain and a bit, yes i am holding him, but am I really fixing the problem? No.
He was very well behaved on the rest of the way back (and yes we did move out some to end on a good note) and although a few times I was holding him pretty tight, I take comfort in knowing I was not damaging his mouth in doing so.
I am going to give him a break tomorrow due to some minor stifle lameness but am going to try and take him out for a short ride on Sunday.
Will let everyone know how it goes.
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Friday, Mar 19, 2010 - 10:39 pm:
Find a new riding partner!! And I don't mean a different horse--I'm talking about the rider you were with. Seriously!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 20, 2010 - 12:27 pm:
Julie you have a way with words . I would have to agree. When hank was a young one I went riding with a "friend" who had no common courtesy, one day we were going up a hill and Hank was getting riled up, what does she do but go blasting past me.. that was the last straw and I ended up on the ground with a concussion.. in bed for a week..thankfully I had a helmet on.
I have always been taught not to run back to the trailer or home, OR ever go faster when there is a wound up or nervous horse with me... I always hang behind. Hank is not allowed anything faster than a brisk walk within 500 yds. of home or the trailer.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 20, 2010 - 1:13 pm:
Before you go on the trails next, work in an enclosed area. Practice lots and lots of walk, whoa. If no whoa within 3 steps, back 3-5 steps. Halt, walk forward again. Advance to your next gait, go few steps, whoa. No whoa? Back again.
How I do this is walk is on a loose rein, I just lift my body/energy forward an up, lifting reins, and if needed, legs last. Whoa is very noticeable breath out as I say "WHOA" and I stop riding. If I need to use the reins, it's one rein, then the other, never both at the same time.
The back is also one rein starting with the leg that is most forward...look at the shoulder. Alternate reins, and my body goes in time with the back, then again the "WHOAaaaa" breath out.
I find this method just amazing! Pretty soon they are paying attention to you because they don't know how fast they dare go because it may mean whoa and backing is hard work!
My first ride out on my spunky Arab last week was all on a loose rein using those methods. That's a first for her, I never thought we could ride on a loose rein out alone.
Best of luck, be careful.
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 24, 2010 - 10:06 am:
Work more on controlling with your seat and breathing, not using the bit/ bridle for control. The more nervous a horse is, the looser the reins should be. (Tight reins make him feel restricted from fleeing and escalates his anxiety). You must force yourself to sit deep and breath deep relaxed breaths, especially when faced with something that makes you nervous. Horses pick up everything from hearing our breathing so we can communicate speed up or slow down just by breathing differently. We can also communicate "spook" or "don't spook". Think of how we breath when we are spooked ourselves? We draw in a quick, short breath, sometimes say "Huh?". We have sent the message "spook".
Your horse sounds like he needs more time just walking around on a loose rein, feeling the love. You can get up to faster gaits quicker by slowing down. Sounds funny, but it's true. Give him time to get used to the area and to trails again. Let him tell you when he is ready to trot or canter. Make it a fun and relaxing day for both of you.
As you walk along, take a mental inventory of your own level of anxiety. If you are riding deep, relaxed, breathing slow and even, then you are also ready for the next higher gait. If you have butterflies or are worried he will spook, then keep walking until you get past that feeling.
Another trick I use is to leave the spooking to my horse. When I ride past a tree, I know it is just a tree. They can't hurt us, I know that. A spooking horse might hurt me but a tree cannot. So if I know that by breathing and sitting deep I can keep my horse from spooking, then that is what I have to think about and not the tree. Focus on your riding and leave the spooking to him.
I also have been taught not to increase the gait until my horse and all other horses on the trail are calm. Then move up to a trot and back to walk. Do that over and over. When you canter do the same thing, ask for canter then back to walk or trot. Both of you being relaxed is the goal. And ditto what others have said about running toward the trailer or barn. If you are more than half-way through the trail then you are officially "on your way back".
Find a riding partner that is behind the program, who understands what you want to accomplish and that will be a big help. I too have been on rides where others took off running before my horse was ready for it and everything went sour as a result. However, I really think your horse needs to see you as leader and not the other horse and that might be easier for you to accomplish by riding alone. I know some people don't like to do that and it must be done safely, but it is a better way to get him focusing on you.
Good luck,
Linda
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