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Discussion on Believing In My Horse
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Friday, Mar 26, 2010 - 11:18 am:
Hi,
I am starting this thread after coming to a realization. Some of you know this, but I will give some history of myself and my horse.
I bought Cutter seven years ago (holy cow, can't believe its been that long). Cutter was a 2 year old baby back then and I had one year of riding lessons. Green on green. We had our share of problems through the years, but have worked through so much and we are soooo close to being truly past all the bad stuff. Each year has been a better one than the one before.
So now, thanks to Terrie, I am seeing that I need to believe and trust in my horse. One thing that holds me back is not really understanding, due to my inexperience with never owning a horse before, exactly what a horse can do.
I know that sounds strange because I know they can do dressage, and jump, and race, and trail ride. I don't mean the sectors they can do, but inwardly what can they do? For instance, my reluctance to take my horse in the woods is because I am afraid he is afraid of being in such a closed area. I don't have any reality to base that on, I just think it. Are horses afraid of the woods typically?
I also don't know how much I can push him. Lets say we are walking in an area and I feel comfortable but he seems nervous. Is it better to stop and let him relax or keep going because I am feeling confident and want to impress that upon him?
If I can ride him with confidence in an arena and he does as I ask, does it really matter where we are as long as I am riding with the same confidence? Should I try to do less in a new place to give him time to get used to it or should I do more to keep his mind busier? Or neither, just do what we do indoors?
I also get worried I am going to hurt him, so please tell me that is dumb. I don't mean hurt him with my riding skills, I mean hurt him by making him walk on asphalt which he has to walk on to get to the trails. His feet are fine.
I think I am a worrier by nature, but these are all things that go through my mind and block me from doing anything new with my horse. Yet I see people enjoying their horses all around me doing all these things I keep stopping myself from doing. My horse is a really good boy and anyone else would probably have him going all over the place by now. It is me. We were in a clinic last year and the cowboy instructor said Cutter would be a "great ranch horse". He rode Cutter and he said that like he really meant it. Made me realize that I am the one holding Cutter back and I am determined to change that. This trust issue is a big hurdle for me to overcome and making some of these demons go away would be a big step in that direction.
Thanks as always for your help.
Linda
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Friday, Mar 26, 2010 - 12:02 pm:
Linda, I love your instincts to protect your horse; I think you will find as you go along that horses are quite tough and very little babying is required.
If possible I would recommend that you ride with a mentor, a horse/rider team that has been there, done that and can give you pointers and lead by example. Can be greatly beneficial both to you and your horse. Many young, inexperienced mounts are only as brave as the horse in front of them =)
If you do find a good mentor, let them know what you feel comfortable with and make sure they are OK with riding at your pace. When I ride with a group, the group always goes at the pace of the least experienced individual. We always check with each other before increasing speed. Also let your mentor know that you are open to advice/pointers and don't be afraid to expressly ask for help when you need it.
To answer your specific questions, while there are more potential boogers in the woods, I would not say horses are all afraid of the woods. As with anything, increased exposure leads to increased confidence and comfort. A great way to start is to take your horse on a walk (in hand) in the woods and see how he behaves.
Re: riding with confidence in a new area, that is a tougher question, especially when aboard a 3 year old. When I am starting a colt, I let them take in new things in their own time. The biggest advice I can give you is to take your time with everything. I don't ever pick a fight with a youngster, when putting them in a new situation it's all about taking our time and enjoying learning. Diane's description of getting a nervous horse to cross water is an excellent example of this in practice.
The caveat I should add is that I go slower overall than some people. I do not believe in starting a horse in a set amount of time, each horse progresses at their own pace. Some can accomplish in 30 days what it takes others a year to get, and to me that's just fine.
Re: walking on asphalt, yes, your horse can walk on asphalt. I would caution you if he has shoes on that it can be slippery for a shod horse. Mostly you need to be careful going up and down hills, otherwise he should be OK.
Again, above all else take your time. Make progress by setting goals, and do one SMALL thing outside your comfort level each day. Try keeping a journal of your experiences, you will be amazed a year from now the things that worried you that don't any more. And, of course, enjoy the ride!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Mar 26, 2010 - 4:48 pm:
Linda you are doing very well...Hank is going to be 13 this year and I have owned horses for about 40! At least you have an excuse .
As I said we all have to have at least one "special" horse in our lifetimes...they will teach you things you never knew possible.
I think baby steps could help you ex. go to the woods edge, pet and love on him and go home or do something you are comfortable with.. Gives you time to relax near the woods without entering and him time to take it all in.
Next time go 10 ft into the woods and keep repeating. I don't know if you saw my dancing prancing idiot thread, but going out in our pasture with Hank was a total nightmare. That is how we resolved it. 1st ride was to the gate, 2nd ride was through the gate a few yards...when I felt I was going to get nervous...back home we went. We went about 50 yds everyday and since we were working slow at it I was able to trust and believe that maybe he wasn't going to kill me in there. Our 3rd ride this year we went up there with confidence and had a nice (no fake spooking, no prancing ride)
I agree with Terrie as far as believing in your horse BUT I also think you have to have confidence and trust before you can believe in them...I know I did, but we are all different and so are our mounts. Some seem to be able to read our minds and some could really care less what we are thinking!
You will believe in Cutter with each extra step you take into the woods. be it one step or 100...you go with the flow of the day. Last year it took me a good 2 weeks to get about 200yds into our pasture, when my signals started getting mixed and my leg came off it was time to go back. Don't push it let it happen.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Mar 26, 2010 - 5:05 pm:
Linda,
I have found that once that horses get used to any routine, including being rode out and about, they look forward to it. No matter what I am doing in the arena for the days training, I try to end it by leaving the arena. Think of any place new as an adventure and don't be nervous. For example here I might just ride at a walk to the deer blind and back, staying on the trail. That's about 1/2 mile. Or depending on the season, I might stay in the woods totally and make it a game of crossing downed logs, weaving amongst trees.
In short, everything you do like that, it's teaching the horse to think. Where is he putting his feet? Can you weave between 2 trees without loosing a kneecap? You have trust him to know how to work his way through the woods! Don't over steer, or over think, try like was said in the other thread-mentally steer towards your destination.
My only advice for your safety: If you are in a large wooded area, don't get lost! Stay within sight of the trail. If you do get turned around, remember where the sun was, and trust your horse to know where home is. Sorry, didn't mean to add to your fears, I don't know if you are talking about riding in a 1000 acre forest or a few trees in your back yard. And I have gotten lost and have had a horse (twice) get me back home.
As you do more, you will gain confidence as will Cutter. The more you can think of to do with your horse, on and off the ground, the better your relationship will be. As simple as can you chew gum and crack bubbles? Or can you drag a huge scary tarp beside him? Will he walk over a tarp, a piece of plastic on the ground? Do 100's of different things to see if/how he reacts, and stay positive and brave no matter what he does. Make it as silly and interesting as you can.
Something I've been thinking about lately: When I sent out pictures of my slow feeders (From Shannon's thread) I got some emails back worrying that the horses would get hurt on them.
My question back was: Honestly, how did horses ever survive this long on Earth before we babied them so much? We all tend to think their feet can't handle anything, and they need padded cells for their protection, and we can't work them too much because they'll be lame/sore, whatever.
Anyone of our powder puff pasture pets can outlast us any day! In your mind, think of them as the magnificent animal they are if left to be a horse. Not only can he can take of himself, he can take care of you if he sees you as a member of his herd. I think our horses want us to be their partners, not necessarily their leaders like so many say. Think of it as a marriage (Hopefully that is a good comparison, lol!) sometimes one leads or gives 80%, the other 20%. On a good day, it is 50/50, but it's not always 50/50. It may seem it's better for a relationship to be 50/50 to be in harmony, but again, I don't think that applies in real life. Some days your horse needs you to be the leader, some days he wants to lead. It's knowing when to lead and when to trust him to lead that takes courage and understanding.
We think and over think too much. Learning to listen to your inner voice, and you might find your horse butting in on that conversation! Gut feelings can tell us a lot. If you don't think you should be doing something, don't do it. If your horse seems to saying it's o.k. silly human, take a big breath and carry on.
BTW, one of the times I get hurt the worst I was sick to my stomach and shaking while getting on a youngster. I wasn't afraid of him, so I pushed those feelings/symptoms aside. I didn't get hurt by him; I got kicked by our sweetheart mare because he was nervous and kept riding to close to her! He didn't get hurt at all either, but I had to be "rescued" in the woods.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Friday, Mar 26, 2010 - 10:12 pm:
So much advice good has been given by others.
It sounds as though you are on the right track. Don't second guess your instincts.
While Cutter may be ready to move forward more confidently, perhaps you are not quite there yet.
The two of you make a team and time in the saddle and on a trail is not all that matters.
Try to relax and trust but don't push things too fast either.
Be patient with yourself and Cutter.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 27, 2010 - 10:15 am:
Linda I'm curious do you curl your toes sometimes when you ride Cutter?
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 27, 2010 - 10:33 am:
I will 'second' Diane's methodology above...When I bought Sparkles, she pretty much never saw anything but her pasture, stall and arenas. I needed to get her out and about to build my confidence, particularly in prep for showing, and as a mental and physical break for both of us.
I did pretty much exactly as Diane describes...I would hand walk her out into the fields past the barn, a little further each time. She behaved, I gave her a few minutes to graze and we went back. Next time, we hand walked a little further...and further until we eventually got to the woods where there is a trail. Each subsequent time, we went deeper into the trail. When this got to the point where it was a non -issue for both of us (and it never really was an issue for HER, just me...)I started riding out there, farther and farther each time and then finally into the woods. When we were comfortable with this, I started schooling in the field, walk, trot and eventually canter. It's literally taken me years and there was only twice that I can think of where she got excited enough that I felt the need to get off. The first time I got off, I was to nervous to get back on and we just hand walked. The second time, I knew I could ride through it and within minutes, she settled.
Last night was the second time this year we've been out in the field (too wet yet to hit the trails)..it was cold and windy but that never crossed my mind as a problem (3 or 4 years ago, I would have used that as an excuse not to do it). My confidence is up and she has responded to it. She strides out beautifully, listens well and is relaxed an happy. Even as we came back and three of the horses in the back pastures started rushing the fence line, all excited, neither Sparkles nor I reacted and we walked calmly back to the barn.
I think the key was those baby steps...getting just out of the comfort zone to cause "unease" but not panic. Eventually that step out of the comfort zone becomes the comfortable norm, and then you take one more step outside of that, building upon each success only when both horse and rider are completely at ease. It takes stepping out of that comfort zone to grow, but finding the balance of just how much is enough to not cause a physical and mental reaction that can't be controlled. It's tricky...but we all have to remember too that those of us that have not ridden all our lives, and even some that have, have the same issues and we are not alone.
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Sunday, Mar 28, 2010 - 9:13 am:
Do I curl my toes? Hmmm. I know not to do that and I try to post the trot by thinking of my toes being soft and open. However, I do curl my leg due to tension. I will ride along and do my mental inventory and notice my leg is curled upwards at the heel. So then I correct it and get that long, relaxed leg, as it should be. Tension has been my nemesis for a long time. This year I have been doing relaxation exercises when I am not at the stable and that has helped a great deal.
Fran, I really appreciate your story. That sounds a lot like the situation I am in. I took Cutter on trails when he was two and three, but last year was the first time he was out there since. It is good to hear that others had horses that weren't doing trails for a long time and still worked up to being on them successfully.
Cutter is calmer with other horses around, no doubt, but I have a hard time finding people to ride with. No mentors either. I live 40 minutes from the stable and have to fit my riding time into my schedule, so I don't see the people I would prefer to ride with very often. I would be limited to an occasional Saturday ride and that does not seem enough consistency to me. The method of making bigger circles sounds perfect. I like the thinking process too since it is only a little more out of my comfort zone each time. That is something I feel ready for.
The woods (not a forest, but a large wooded area), is not the only trail. The farm has trails all around the perimeter of the pasture, plus we can ride the perimeter of the farm across the road. Then there is a woods on 600 acres next door that goes down to a small lake. There are several lovely trails in that wooded area and most of the riders at the ranch choose those trails, for obvious reasons. For now, I will just concentrate on the farm trails that are more in the open.
I think I will try hand walking into the woods though. I was afraid of doing that because I thought he would spook and step on me. Now I don't think that would be likely and that is because something Terrie said really hit home. She was talking about Cutter taking care of me, looking out for me. One day there was a woman sitting quietly in a corner of the arena, waiting for her daughter to finish her riding lesson. It was cold in the barn so this woman had a heavy horse blanket, (the winter kind of covers, can't think of what they are called). Anyway she had it draped over herself and Cutter was tied to the arena wall and I was grooming him. I was standing on the far side so he was between me and this woman. Well, she suddenly stood up and shook the horse coat loudly. Cutter totally spooked from what probably appeared to be a ghost coming to life. Of course he went to move his rear away from the woman. When he normally spooks, he jumps from here to there in 1/10th of a second. That day, he pushed me over quickly. Of course I was moving my feet and backing away from him, but at the time it almost felt like slow motion because it took more like 3 seconds for him to get his rear away from her. Now I believe that he was pushing me, just like he pushes another horse away from harm. It has given me a whole new look at his relationship with me and I do feel more confident to try walking him in the woods. I do think I'll circle in and out though, and work farther in a little at a time.
These are all very good stories. It is nice to see I am not the only one. Husband keeps saying I should get rid of Cutter and get a quiet horse that already does trails. He thinks all this arena stuff must be so boring. I think I am just like Diane though. I really do like the challenge and climbing the mountain seems more exciting than just being at the top.
Thanks for you help.
Linda
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Mar 28, 2010 - 10:43 am:
Linda climbing the mountain is much more educational anyway. I know most agree with Terrie about believing, and I think it does help in as far as our body language, relaxation, and visualizations. That's about as far as I would go with it though. Horses are big flight animals, and believing they won't run you over when they are in a state of panic is dangerous IMHO. Teaching him to respect your space, learning to relax, and you are to be trusted to take the leadership role in times of conflict works better...FME
Hank will do everything in his power not to run me over if something spooks him, he has been taught not to evade my space, but I have ended up on the ground a few times and lived through it.
I hope you enjoy your journey to the top of the mountain it is quite educational and never ending.
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Sunday, Mar 28, 2010 - 1:42 pm:
Diane, I get that. I totally agree and in all things i do with Cutter I have a humble respect for his size and power. My problem is I take it to the other extreme where I am too nervous. I feel the need to bring my emotions down and thinking of him taking care of me, even in his own horsey way, helps with that. I would not want anyone reading this to think I'd let my guard down completely. I try to do things safely and sensibly. Thanks for your "grounding" point of view.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Mar 29, 2010 - 7:41 am:
Linda IMHO the baby steps will bring your emotions down. I know when slowly leaving the comfort zone with Hank and seeing I could survive it and he was fine my nervousness and emotions began to wane quickly. Even at just one step out. These emotions leave with experience and trust... not horse experience per se, but the experience of learning that they are OK out of the comfort zone.
I understand your emotions and I can still feel mine bubble up occasionally on Hank, but he is proving to be a trustworthy horse given the chance and every ride now they are less and less.
You will do fine with Cutter, try not to believe things are going to happen that won't. Perception in that case is good, when we think something is going to happen our bodies tell the horse that..telling them to stop when we mean go. I was a good one for that!!! You seem to be very aware of your emotions and short comings with Cutter, working through them isn't easy I know and what ever helps you accomplish that whether it be believing or perception or reality that is what you go with
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Member:
terrido
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Posted on Monday, Mar 29, 2010 - 6:00 pm:
Diane ("I know most agree with Terrie about believing, and I think it does help in as far as our body language, relaxation, and visualizations. That's about as far as I would go with it though. Horses are big flight animals, and believing they won't run you over when they are in a state of panic is dangerous IMHO.") I would NEVER have anyone try to just go through all things with horses just "believing all will be well". obviously.
It plays a huge part though. But yes all the other normal things of training and working with them should be done too. I also don't drive my car by believing I am safe. I drive defensively. With my horses I train them.
It's just another piece of my overall working with horses (animals) puzzle, that's all.
I just don't want anyone having the wrong impression of the intent of the original thread. What I believe of my horse, what I intend and expect of my horse (for me) is always a part of the interaction equation, but it is not the only thing.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Mar 29, 2010 - 7:01 pm:
Terrie I know, I really do understand where you are coming from. I did want to point out it was just PART of the equation tho. I also get what you mean by perception is reality, but that statement point blank is just wrong IMHO.
We can help ourselves by believing in our horse, there is nothing greater than finally "getting it" and understanding what our horse is trying to tell us. They ARE big flight animals tho, and to stay safe we must stay in touch with a horse is a horse, as majestic as they are and no matter how much they like us, they are about the here and now and keeping themselves safe, their butts are more important to them than ours. We must learn to help them trust us and believe IN US to keep them safe.. not vice versa again MHO.
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Member:
cometrdr
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Posted on Monday, Mar 29, 2010 - 8:08 pm:
hey Linda - you sound so much like me.
I know where you're coming from totally on the its a big animal thing too. I can tell you my experience and maybe you can apply peices of wahat I had to either help your or make you feel less like there is something wrong but more over something normal with you.
When I first started riding Comet my then 5 year old at 16.3 1300 pounds. I was very Intimidated by him. No scared down right scared - but the thrill of managing that fear kept me riding. weird I know - but it did. then i got to thinking why? why be afaid when so many people talk of the bond, the love, the fun, the relaxation. So I sought them all out. First by winning the leader role with him on the ground. then in the saddle.
I couldn't walk him int the early days because of the lack of respect. He walked over me - came in to my space, basically ignored me. I made him notice me, (nicely) and taught him by a reward pricipal. You get a peice of Carrot ( I call them Nickels cause that's the size of them) if you do the right thing. If you walk politely beside me at the right distance at the right pace for say 10 feet - you get a nickel. for 30 feet, another nickel, if you turn and don't crowd my space you get one.
He started getting mouthy all over me for those nickels... so I started training that out of him. If he got mouthy I would take my crop and tap his nose - but if he's good I would scratch him all over with the crop (he likes that too). see where I am going here. Once we had the Ground working well my confidance soared. I continue to do it today.
I keep on it, keep reminding him, in a very loving partnership way that I am the Alpha in this relationship.
I believe I am now too. Comet senses that Confidance and it makes him calmer - knowing where he stands. It's all geometric from there. A calm person makes a calm rider makes a calm horse makes a GREAT FUN RIDE. when something gets my goat up when we are on the trail alone - I think wet noodle - I make sure I can bring my heart rate to normal, sit relaxed like a wet noodle, slow down and let the horse take it all in. Relax, have fun. Like the woods. yea I firmly believe if a horse had a choice they would only go in areas where they can see for ever and easily flee. that is their DNA. But in building that trust relationship - Your trust in him and his trust in you and he will consider and mostlikely do what ever it is you ask of him.
I say most likely - because in that trust - you have to trust him too some times, they have instincts that we don't, they know when the stream is just water over quick sand (I have seen it!!!believe them) most of the time we can reason it out better than them and push them past their comfort levels.
so your path of going in larger and larger concentric circles on the Farm into the woods is GREAT. Build that confidence between the two of you, it is so amazing to have that bond.
Yea, Comet is my first horse, my love, my life. we have the relationship every little girl dreams of - a true partnership, he does stuff cause he knows I want him to - I trust his judgement. Some times we go his way - if its ok. but that took 5 years to get there - riding at least 4 times a week and playing wth him daily.
That is my fortune to have them in the back yard. I can be there several times a day - and I still love it!!!! go forth have fun. HAVE FUN... that is the key
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 30, 2010 - 12:04 pm:
Muffi, your situation does sound similar. I am three years into my "four days a week plus playing with him {almost} daily". In those three years we have built a good foundation and now it is time for me to "slowly" step out of my comfort zone.
Last night I worked on trusting him more. He started going faster than I wanted and rather than trying to draw him back, I decided to just let go of my fears and enjoy the ride. I trusted him. It was a glorious feeling and I can't wait to go back to the stable tonight.
I know there are always readers on this forum that never write and so we need to be careful how we word things. No one wants someone to do something foolish just because they read "believe in your horse" on HA. I think most of us that write on here have at least a modicum of sense and realize training is the basis of any good relationship with a horse. It is that next level we seek where images and feelings communicate as well as pressure and release. Everyone in the face of life and death, looks out for their own skin. That is why us human riders get scared to begin with. If we use our thoughts to speak to our horse and in the process our breathing relaxes or our shoulders DrOp a bit, then what we thought was a telepathic communication might actually have been physical and we didn't even realize it. The horse does. He is that sensitive. If it brings the desired result of calming ourselves and then calming our horses, then it seems a good approach to me.
I will report back in fall and let you know what progress we made.
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