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  Discussion on Martingale For Spooky Critter?
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Member:
equestra

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 25, 2010 - 9:24 pm:

Hello y'all,
I was away from riding after a back surgery, am just getting back into the groove now (successful disc replacement, yay!) and want to address something...

I have a Rocky Mountain gelding, 7, who is usually pretty unflappable and steady - the love of my life. Thankfully he lives at home so I've been spending time with him even when I wasn't out riding.

Before surgery, we had a scary trail experience where he wouldn't go behind a machinery building (even with 3 other horses who didn't notice it). A friend had given me a riding crop... so I spurred him and then one pop of the crop to the hindquarters... and he reared sky high on me.I stayed on, but I've heard too many stories of the horse that reared and fell on top of the rider! So mom learned that PATIENCE in discovering new scary things was in order.

Fast forward to two days ago... with my brace on and a little fear of falling now... we were riding on some neighborhood bridal trails and *everything* was spooking him. The most civilized place we've ever been and he was a jumping bean. I redirected his attention 100 times and talked to him and we quietly (albeit slowly) cruised thru most of it, but the storm drain with sprinkler combo nearly gave him heart failure. My husband was riding my horse's best buddy right ahead of me, so I tried to spur, spur, redirect, talk... I got that bouncy / prancy / momma I might rear feeling out of him... so after several soft attempts I took another route. We went back after in halter and I showed him these things (and walked him thru it 3 x with him balking thru the ordeal), he still wasn't buying the story. =P

So, my question is (sorry for the long lead up), what is the cutoff in your opinions of where to draw the line with "who wins"? I don't want to create a spoiled animal, but I don't want to cruelly push him into things that scare him. Then a friend of mine who I trust said, "That's easy, put a martingale on him!"... and that left me cold. It seems I should work with him and train him to trust me and not be freaky... not strap his poor head down! He's 99% a perfect trail horse!

Looking forward to your input. And also - if you ever know anyone who needs back surgery, DON'T let them get fused - get ADR. I started back in the saddle baby steps at 3 months post surgery, and now at 6 months I've ridden 6 days in a row walk / trot / canter with little issue!
Member:
juliem

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 25, 2010 - 11:48 pm:

Well, in my opinion, a martingale isn't going to fix or solve anything. I think this is a "training opportunity!" When a horse is scared, whips and spurs tend to tell them they're right to be scared. There are volumes written about fixing these kinds of problems and of the many I've read and the many videos I've watched, along with clinics etc., I've never heard anyone say anything about a martingale! I think you need the help of a trainer or at the least study some of the books and DVDs put out by any of the popular clinicians. Clinton Anderson, Pat Parellie, Chris Cox, Ryan Gingrich, John Lyons--the list is endless. They all approach this the same way more or less. The problem is probably not the spooky situation, but a general lack of respect or confidence since he probably senses you are a bit tentative. Enjoy the journey, you'll learn so much.
p.s. I had a friend get "fused" and she's not doing nearly as well as you after SIX months!
Member:
canter

Posted on Thursday, Aug 26, 2010 - 7:24 am:

I agree with Julie - using a martingale in this case is not the right thing to do.

Can you or your husband pony your horse, from a trusted and quiet companion, through the areas that worry him? Perhaps several trips through the area without a worried rider in the saddle might help him get less reactive to new things.

There are many things you can expose your horse to at home, from the ground, that will help build his confidence: tarps, cones, balloons, bikes, umbrellas...the list is endless and limited only to the imagination. And, as Julie mentioned, there a many books and videos available as well.

Good luck and very glad your surgery was a success!
Member:
lhenning

Posted on Thursday, Aug 26, 2010 - 10:28 am:

Hi Robin,

My horse is a big chicken too. I've found it essential for myself to be completely calm and not even look at the scarey thing. I focus on my breathing and take deep slow breaths. They pick up on our breathing very easily and if they hear us hold our breath or draw our breath in quickly, it makes them more afraid.

Sometimes if I notice he is looking at something and getting jumpy, I will serpentine near and away from the object, keeping his attention on the direction changes and gradually get closer to the object.

Pressure and release is what the clinicians teach in handling this. Pressure is when he is near the object, release him when he softens and relaxes. This can be done on the ground very effectively. The key is to release when he relaxes. If you take him away from the object when he is tense, you are rewarding him for that and it will escalate. Watch for his head to DrOp, his posture to relax, and his feet to stop moving. Reward the slightest try and he will soon give you more.

In the situation you describe where he reared, the correct method would have been to stop at the point where he became tense. He is not allowed to back up, or to turn, but must stand and face the object. When he relaxes, ask him to move forward. If he jumps sideways or backs up, move him right back to the spot he was in and stand again. When you used the crop and spurs, you increased his pressure to a point where he could not take it so instead of moving forward, he moved upward. Kind of like saying "OK, I'm moving but NO I will not move toward that scarey thing". So it might help you to relax by thinking this happened because you caused it. Simply learn from your mistake and don't do that again.

Put some time into just training him out of the spookiness rather than approaching your trail ride as getting from one place to another. Go only as far as the first spooky spot, and take as long as it takes. Just be calm and reward only the good behavior.

My horse is 9 now and he is much better about this, but he still spooks from time to time. What has changed is me. I always remind myself I am not afraid of machines, or whatever gets his attention, so I stay relaxed in the saddle and ride through the spook. Over time, it becomes more work for them to spook than not, so it diminishes if there is no reward for them.

Ditto what others are saying on the use of the martingale.

Good luck,
Linda
Member:
mrose

Posted on Thursday, Aug 26, 2010 - 11:26 am:

I would only add that if he hasn't been ridden in awhile, you might do some ground work with him for awhile, then progress to riding. A lot of times imo spooking is just a good excuse to try and run off some excitement and steam.
Member:
equestra

Posted on Thursday, Aug 26, 2010 - 12:22 pm:

Hey y'all,
Well I'm glad my thoughts on the martingale were correct - so many of my friends (who show horses and have far more exp) use them... but MOST of the time my horse is flawless, and even if he wasn't I think that's a horrid shortcut.

I have "sacked him out" quite well, for the record. And he's usually fearless! We even had an encounter with a rattlesnake where *I* got scared and he was like "oh mom pul-lease". We're planning on going back to the "scene of the spook" to ride with our friends who live that way, so I suppose we'll be sitting at all the scary stuff for a while. Also I was quite calm - curbs and sprinklers don't raise any anxiety in me, lol.

I was told letting a horse go away from a scary thing was "letting him win". But I think my instinct was correct... getting off and walking thru his fear area... so we'll get it. =)

And I am an Anderson/Parelli fan, I've studied horses far longer than I've actually had them. And I've got a lesson with a new trainer in a little while, yay!
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Thursday, Aug 26, 2010 - 7:28 pm:

I am a big fan of having a calm down cue. What I have done as I teach my horses ground work is I make a big deal of out letting me breath out, and make it a big "SSSHHHHHHH" that gets their attention. Transfer it to riding, and stopping my body movement "Stopping riding" along with "easy, shhhh" in the arena, helps on the trails IMO.

I also have started to use another technique of raising one rein UP that I jiggle, more like vibrate,1 rein back, as a head lowering calm down cue. My gelding, Cody, has been a bugger lately going into the woods, (mosquitoes I think are the issue) so I keep pointing him the direction I want to go, if he backs up I circle him by bringing his head around and applying my leg by his flank. If we need to walk a bit as we discuss this, I work with the jiggling rein/Ssshhhh as we walk back and forth and then try again.

A scared horse needs a calm leader rider. I am not fighting by circling, I am simply saying reverse is not an option. We end pointing the way I want to go. We sit a half minute, or more, depending on how he's acting. I ask again for a calm forward movement. If he were to really panic and bolt, I am not letting him "win" by letting him go away from what scares him (something he don't do really, but I could write a book on my Arab in her younger days!)but we stop and look at things from a distance he feels safe, and start again. The hardest part of all this is the rider sitting calm and centered! And just keep asking for more.

It's not a win/loose situation. If today your horse doesn't go by the scary stuff with flying colors, focuse on what he did do well, and he'll gain confidence.

NO NO NO martingale!!! If you are using a snaffle bit, maybe go to a kimberwickie if you need a bit of curb action, but keep in mind any changes will increase his fears possibly, and/or cause pain and thus more reasong for fear and anxiety.

I think you've got it figured out from your last post, so good luck, and stay safe.

I apologize for the spaces above, and missing words...I have no idea what is going on?
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Aug 26, 2010 - 10:25 pm:

Another thing that has worked well with my horses is approach and retreat.. again a matter of timing.

Approach the scary object, when you start to feel hesitation, yet the "spook" isn't quite there yet...retreat.. go do something else BY the scary thing then approach again.. rinse repeat.. soon they don't even notice the scary object and no fight to be won or lost. This can take a couple minutes to quite awhile but it has always worked. Usually the 3rd time is the charm
Member:
cometrdr

Posted on Thursday, Aug 26, 2010 - 11:29 pm:

when we first moved to Prescott there was a lot of new things here that were extremly scary, we have a windmill and it moves in the wind. it took us 30 minutes to get by it the first time. a lot of very slow movement. a lot of ok lets stand here and look at that horse eating thing. reassurance, stand, step one step forward - then run past. the second time it took 10 minutes, then 5 the a few sideways glances and now nothing.
but...... the good new is he approaches other scary things different now. We did it together, partnership thing, he learned when I urge him on that its ok, he trusts me. I never rush if I feel him begin to tense up with fear. I let him watch, sniff and then walk slowly by. nothing takes very long to get around now and spooks are in place not 180 vertical runs..... but who ever above said to read and enjoy the journey hit it on the head of the nail. read about how every one does it, take all that advice - put it in the blender and use what you want and what works for you and that particular horse. each horse id different too....
have fun with it!
Member:
equestra

Posted on Friday, Aug 27, 2010 - 1:30 pm:

LOL! Thanks so much y'all! I'm going back to the "scene of the spook" this weekend, so I'll be trying some of these things and proudly riding sans martingale! I've always hated the look of those things and considered them a band aid for not having a trained critter. =)

Had a great lesson yesterday, working on "finding my seat" again... post surgery I was riding a bit too forward from the pelvic bone, which made me feel pretty sketchy! So I'll be practicing my new position as well. I did a little trail after my lesson and felt so much more secure! What a difference an expert makes. =)

I really appreciate the comradarie (sp?) and feedback!
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