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  Discussion on Tango: Progess Report Time and HELP Needed Again
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Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Monday, Sep 27, 2010 - 8:37 pm:

Well everyone, since my hubby, daughter, and son don't say boo when I get all excited about what happens with Tango, thought I'd share how things are going here with other horse nuts, lol!! And I must be nuts to keep trying with this horse; so maybe I am the only nut??

'Nways, we have been riding in the round pen which was getting boring. Working on lots of WHOA since he has lots of GOOOOO!! Doing lots of circles around cones, halting, backing, moving hindquarters over, moving side ways, head lowering.

He's been a slug with some of the moving off my leg, so I got the spurs out! No no no I didn't wear them on my boots (I do have some sanity yet!) but held them in my hand to use after the bump with a stirrup. He's a sticky bugger on the right side about everything it seems. That helped after on session.

Today was sunny and mild, light wind, perfect! So we did everything I could think of from the ground:

All the safety checks, moving all his body part, and...this was fun...I took one of those foam "noodles" that kids use in the swimming pools and flapped it all around him. He still wanted to do his butt scooting boogy when it was slapping on the right side of the saddle, but he got over pretty quick for him.

Next I put the noodle on the saddle. I have a bucking strap (strap from some piece of tack) and I centered this noodle on that. So it bounced around on each side, sticking out about 30" too.

Walked, trotted, and cantered. NO blow ups, no butt scooting...YAY!!!

This was all in the arena.

Moment of trust had arrived: Eased into the saddle, asked for relaxation FIRST with head lowering. Rubbed ALL over his neck and rump, adjusted me and the saddle...and...and...wait for it...we walked off!!

First arena ride!!

Mindless walking around for the first 5 minutes. Then I started asking for turning. Halting, head lowering, yadda yadda just like in the round pen. Only advantage here have straight fence lines to work off of as needed.

NOTHING MAJOR HAPPENED!

He was super responsive to leg aids, and pretty light with everything. He should be of course, we've done this from the ground for how many YEARS???

I do have one teeny tiny issue though that I need help with: (is it possible for it to be a tiny issue with Tango????)

Tango walks SUPER FAST!!! I don't think he was nervous really, but I was. I've rode plenty of fast horses, plenty of super quick responsive horses but no BIG super sensitive over reactive horses. I know what kind of power he has packed in the big ol' neck of his, and I know he CAN MOVE if he has to.

I don't want to ruin his forward movement which I could feel happening in the round pen. Yet I know we have a long ways to go yet before I just jump on and off we go.

Any suggestions on how to proceed from here? I think I have to start asking a lot more from him. And keep him calm.

I have to admit, this is one horse that I find intimidating to be astride! NEVER thought I'd say that about any horse in my lifetime, but there it is! (must be getting old)
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Sep 27, 2010 - 9:52 pm:

LOL Angie, I do believe Tango is Hanks long lost brother. When I had Hank at the Parelli trainers I started riding him in his last week so the trainer could help me. My hubby and Todd (the trainer) and few other people went on a trail ride. I was on Hank, and boy were we booging along, very fast walk...BUT A WALK. Everyone else was way behind me and I kept trying to slow Hank down to a slower a walk and I couldn't... finally Todd yelled from behind me WHAT are you doing???? I said trying to slow down his walk so I can ride with you guys!!! Todd said he is walking and that is the speed you want don't fight it or you will get a different speed and a confused horse..HMMMM
Unfortunately that didn't stick in my brain...wish it had!!

THIS was the beginning of the long fight with Hank and his prancing and dancing. You see in a green horse if they are doing the gait you ask for you reward it, it is much too early for refinement within the gaits.... that comes much later. The next trainer I took him to because I was having problems with UMMMM dancing and prancing and a VERY confused horse told me the same thing...NEVER fight forward motion with in a gait... Still didn't believe it, I had never had this problem with any other horse! And unfortunately Hank intimidated me and I didn't want any fast forward motion from him...even at a walk LOL. In retrospect these guys were SOOOOOOO right! Hank has a big motor and holding that motor back is not good! If he stays within the asked gait don't fight it, if the gait changes...check him and go back to a fast walk...refinement within the gaits will come later I PROMISE.

Another thing that really blew my mind with Hank and curious if Tango does it, is he would blow and snort all the while we were going, now I was always taught that means a horse is wound up and is about to blow his top... it scared the crap out of me The 2nd trainer I had him at told me that was Hank trying to relax, I said sure don't sound like it, and when he would start that I would get stiff as a board and just wait for something to happen. In retrospect again he was right on, now when Hank does that I know he is trying to go right brained and actually like it when he does it LOL.

And Angie the biggest and hardest part of this, especially for those of us that have past bad experiences on a horse is to let go of the past and learn to trust...do not anticipate a problem or it WILL happen. Hank and Tango are very much a like personality wise, I finally trust and love him as a riding partner...he's not boring believe me, but he is a pretty steady mount now and FOREVER teaching me!

Glad you are getting back to Tangos training, I think you will learn to love the "special one" once you click...beautiful weather too! I took a couple vacation days to ride my "special one" this week and he was wonderful tonight.

Good Luck and keep us updated on your progress, sounds like you are really coming along now
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 28, 2010 - 12:15 am:

Ha ha, with all your experience I sure wish you could be bop over and show me some of your tricks for riding Hank's brother, lol!!

He was zipping along, chomping on the bit, ears flopping, and blowing as you described. He seemed relaxed but I never thought of it as him trying to go "right brained." I like that! I know he does try. I have no doubt about that. I just can't figure out these last lingering issues with him getting startled yet and trying to bolt. Seems he's trying to correct himself quicker whether I am on board or on the ground. So that's a good sign.

I know he'd love to go exploring in the woods. We'd definately cover ground, lol! But with him I want all 3 gaits under control before we venture out into the open spaces. Well, maybe I'll settle for walk/trot going well. I can't imagine what he's going to do when he trots for the first time with me on him!!

He did get light in front today a few times as I asked for a halt and stand still. I was very glad to have the fence there, and ask for sideways movement a few times too. He never attempted to trot, just forgot what whoa meant. He needs to be kept occupied! Or he forgets I am up there, and then something sets him off...like "Oh oh, where'd that leg come from?" Or "What's that? Oh, just the end of the rein...phew."

I mean it's just ridiculous that things like that still bother him which still bother me!

Is it possible to have an ADHD horse? Or one who is Bi-Polar??? He should be long past all these silliness.

I am thinking more cone work, laying some RR ties out, and alternating between rail work, and then back to the cones, the RR ties. All at a walk for now, not trying to hold him back, loose reins except for contact to turn. Or ask for head lowering. There will be a bolt outa him yet no doubt. Something like a leaf landing on his rump, or a cat coming out of the cornstalks...oh he'll notice something.

I do love this special one. It's just that I feel like I am sitting on the very thin fence being some days he's so good, and I feel like we've got a life time ahead, and then there are days where I don't stay on him for 5 minutes even because he's wound tight. Those days I question why I am still trying with him?

Thanks for sharing the adventures you had with Hank.

I hope to have some pictures of our progress before snow flies!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 28, 2010 - 12:28 am:

Angie hank is 13 and I would say last year was the first year I actually relaxed on him and he quit acting like a 2 yr. old with no experience. My friends arab mare can be a bolter and a spooker. She has done a good job with her, but it is always there. She does well with Hank along, he isn't much of a spook, just a little nuts.

I wonder how Tango would go with a steady eddy with him?
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 28, 2010 - 7:42 am:

Oh great, 4 more years til Tango quits acting like a 2 year old, lol!

When Willow was younger, she was the spookiest horse ever! She'd spook and bolt, or jump sideways from one side of the road to the other side in a nano second. Many times I stayed on the side we started from, sitting on the ground wondering what happened? I learned to keep a tight grip on at least one rein so I didn't have to walk home!

But unlike Tango, she was very easy to reel in. She's more rubber necked, and he's more wood necked, lol!

At 21 though, she has lost many of the silly Arab shyster stuff. My daughter rides her occasionally out alone, and as long as she understands how to keep her calm (love those head lowering calm down cues!) she is safe on her. She might get dancing & prancing on the way home, but it's all about how her rider responds and sits that keeps her walking.

If...no, WHEN I ride out with someone, it will be with Willow. Problem is she is very content to plug along like a snail if she is following another horse. She don't have to think so she just turns into a ol' plug. Tango will be miles ahead of her in no time. Plus they don't like each other. It will be interesting. Hopefully we have a very long dry fall and we do get out of the arena.

Of course bow hunting starts Friday...then it's rifle season...then I think bow again, then black powder.

Looks like I have 3 days to get in the woods, lol!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 28, 2010 - 10:27 am:

Yea and when they get past the terrible twos' they move on to 3 YO. If you are anything like me Hank really scared the crap out of me and he knew it, that was another of our downfalls, but with a history like ours anyone in their right mind would be scared of Hank LOL...I was NOT a beginner, had broke out many horses with no problems, I was the come to person when a friend had a horse problem...

Hank was/is just a handful, VERY smart, and sensitive. Our history is a very long one and would fill a book, you guys have only heard a very small part of it, and most of it is NOT good.

I almost gave up on him, I didn't see him ever being a trustworthy ride. He is still a handful, but I have learned to work with his energy rather than fight it( a BIGGIE). I don't think he will ever be a quiet mount, but that is OK for me, I get bored easily with the compliant ones We still have some rides that just make me want to cry, but they are far and few in between anymore.

I went back to our liberty training and he really is awesome at it, it has made him way better under saddle and I really love riding him now, but he can still be difficult at times. The other night he was up and very responsive, I never thought this would come out of my mouth, but I said to my friend this is my perfect horse...finally. I am totally relaxed on him now and that in itself is a big thing.

Relax and enjoy, look forward to pics Our hunting seasons start this weekend too
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 28, 2010 - 11:53 am:

It's funny reading your post. I've started a few horses too; love doing that. Someone got a challenging horse? Oh oh can I help? Let me see what I can do. (I want to get a mustang next...hubby is having a cow over that idea! He canNOT understand why we can't have horses that go from point A to point B, and back again, calmly.)

I get bored riding Willow now, and she used to be my spaz! I keep asking DD if we can sell her so I can get another project,lol!

I don't know how to go about doing more with liberty training. Could you give me some tips? I've dabbled with it, but not sure about the techniques. I guess just keep him joined up with me? I've never really looked into it. I will say what I've done has helped. My biggest problem after that was keeping him from walking on my heels as I was his new best friend!!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 28, 2010 - 1:22 pm:

Angie, like riding, once you have the basics down, refinement comes into play at liberty, it does get harder the more complicated you get. Teaching Hank to jump cross rails with me and then we moved on to I point he jumps, turns on the haunches and jumps again. Rather than following me he goes where I point instead, we are still in the infancy, but he is very focused on me. Right now I have taught him to stay where I put him and not move a foot until signaled NO MATTER WHAT!, I had so much fun with that, he is great at it and it has taught him to control himself!!! I walked all the way to the house and back last night, he stood with his leg cocked watching me...didn't move a hoof, until I went back down and said TROT and he trotted right up to me.

I still have run offs when teaching something new, but he does come right back, can't help but laugh, he'll loose his mind and go nuts then stop and look at me like where'd you go mom LOL.

You really have to watch your body language, usually when Hank doesn't do what I asked...I asked wrong and said something else with my body...he is very cued into that.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 28, 2010 - 4:55 pm:

O.k., most of my horses know that when I point they are supposed to go. I can see a bit clearer now how to work more at liberty.

Today after I did my safety checks with Tango, I walked to the arena gate to put the lunge line down, and pick up the reins. Since he followed like a big puppy, I decided to see how he would do around the cones. I have 4 set up in a square, plus my mounting stump is another obstacle to work around.

He stayed at my shoulder easily on left turns, stepped on the cones twice on the right turns, but he got it. Stopped great, backed with voice and my body.

I also tested him as I got to the stump. I stood up on it, attached both reins, and waited to see what he would do. He wasn't positioned correctly for me to get on and he could leave. I turned away from him, and he moved as if to say "HEY, you're not looking at me!" He then moved back in front of me, perfect for getting on him!

I was laughing thinking about what you said about the snorting and blowing. He really was noisy! Knowing why he was doing it really helped me to stay relaxed.

What wasn't so funny is I took Cody out in the woods and fields after, and he all fired up about something!

I can't believe I had a better ride on Tango today than Cody! Granted I didn't ask much of Tango, just content yet to let him cruise around and not get in his way. But still...whoda thunk it?

There's always tomorrow.
Member:
dustee

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 28, 2010 - 5:16 pm:

I have one of those horses - and the best way I found to be careful about what you are saying to your horse - is dont have a tight butt!!! They feel everything in your butt right through the saddle. It also crawls down your leg and they feel that too. You need to learn to exhale when you get nervous. The physical act of exhaling relaxes a lot of muscles. You can work on this when you are not on a horse - tighten butt - loosen butt - - so you know what it feels like - and then when you are on the horse, you just need to push your mental exhale button and loosen things up. Smile when you are on them - it lightens your heart. They feel your smile - - small love touches - not slaps - those are good too. Smile, love, relax!!! And, enjoy...Good luck!!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 28, 2010 - 5:32 pm:

Glad it went well Angie! When I was having problems with Hank I read and read books ect. I got the book centered riding (the first one), it helped very much. One thing Sally Swift stated in that book was if you have a bad day don't dwell on it, forget it and move on...for some reason that stuck in my mind and I try to do that, if we have a bad ride we had a bad ride!! Tomorrow is another day don't over think it, horses have bad days too. I do believe in consistency tho, everyday work is the best way to "bond" with the special ones, even if it is a 5 minute at liberty session.... kind of keep them tuned it

Look forward to more reports, it's so exciting when you start to click and those non-horsey hubby's just don't get it!!
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 28, 2010 - 7:01 pm:

Well Dustylin, considering the only saddle I have that fits him is a treeless western, there is not much between my cheeks and his back! Leather, fleecy bottom, and 1" thick wool pad. Yup, have to remember to smile with all 4 cheeks, lol!

For some reason today my right leg kept feeling weird...like it was out of place. It was like tense and I couldn't seem to get it to relax. Only one leg though. Never thought of it on Cody so it must have been a tension thing about riding one Tango.

I was humming and singing as we walked around.
"Hey hey hey it's a beautiful day" interspersed with "You are sooo Beautiful...good boy, good boy!"

I think the only songs I know all the words to are: Silent Night, If I had a Hammer, and Take me Home, Country Roads. I wonder if he has a preference? Gwad, I hope he don't want rap songs!

Non-horsey hubby is busy building another deer blind. Sigh. Don't know what was wrong with last years model? Or the one we have in our woods?
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 28, 2010 - 10:14 pm:

Angie you need to move to Il. I thought of you tonight when my friend and I went for a ride, both of our horses started out snorting and blowing, we got to the top of the driveway and "E"'s horse quit and Hank blew and snorted half way up the road and quit, we laughed and said her horse found her brain with 2 snorts and blows and it took Hank about 20 LOL. When he's done tho he definitely is "right brained" had a wonderful ride.

Sounds like you really need to try to calm your nervousness down around him, which believe me I completely understand!!!! I had stiff legs for years on Hank! The one thing that has really helped me with that is my soft saddle...you can't sit stiff in it! I refuse to ride in a saddle anymore... I let my friend use it all the time as her saddle didn't fit her horse, I will never go back to a "real saddle".

I think we touched on this on someone elses thread about backing. Hank has one cue I taught him that I can count on, that is putting my legs/feet forward to make him stop. The head down cue is good, but in a pinch when you are on their back it doesn't always work or isn't real convenient/possible to do. The Parelli guy taught me this and I just started using it this year it is a wonderful tool and if you would like the explanation of it I would be glad to explain it... rather lengthy, but if you get this down I will guarantee it will bring Tango to a stop with no reins, it works 100% of the time for Hank to calm down when I am on his back.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 29, 2010 - 8:11 am:

HA HA HA!! I think Tango had lots more than 20 snorts! O.k., today I will add counting number of snorts to things to do while riding Tango, lol!

I am always nervous when I am ready to get on. I can feel the tension in my whole body, and legs are little bit weak. I take some deep breaths and stroke his neck. I do listen to my body and ask myself if today is a good day to ride Tango! The one time I got seriously hurt my body & brain were screaming at me not to get on the horse I was going to ride. I figured my brain could overrule my body, gave myself a pep talk, got on, and had to be rescued from way back in the boonies!!

Once I am in the saddle, we sit a bit, and as soon as we start moving, I am fine. A month or so ago, if I got on and didn't feel right about being on him, I just got off immediately.

Believe me, I HAVE NO DESIRE to do any rodeo riding! I take every precaution and consider every tidbit of advice everyone gives me (thanks everyone) concerning this challenging critter of mine. He is NOT normal, lol! I hope that there will be a point where he has 100% faith in me, and me in him, and we become a team. I really am not looking forward to another 4 1/2 years (since age 13 seems to be the magic number when these kind settle down)of this kind of stress, lol!

If you care to explain the Parelli stop, I'd be interested in reading about it. If it don't confuse him with what I am doing now, it may be another tool I can add to my work with him.

My current method is, (think I explained this in that other thread too) I just exhale loudly while saying "shhh" and stop riding. On Willow and Cody, I can DrOp the reins, and put my hand on their withers. My cowboy mentor taught me that putting your hand on their withers is what cowboys do when they rope cattle.

If the whoa don't come with that, then I use the reins as follows: One rein is straight back at my hip, the other is lifted up a bit along his neck. If on a circle, the inside rein is the one on the neck. I alternate reins, and pressure increases until feet stop moving. That is also the head down cue except the feet can keep moving if my body is still riding.

He's actually doing whoa really well. Not necessarily standing stopped as well as I would like yet, but he stands for mounting, and don't move off until I ask. The real test of whoa will of course be if he gets scared. Willow used to bolt, and she'd whoa pretty quick, and I could feel her shaking, and her heart just pounding! For many years a 2nd bolt would follow...not fun.

Tango tends to bolt and keep going! If we can get that out of his system, we can ride any place under any conditions.
Member:
lilo

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 29, 2010 - 10:33 am:

Angie, great to hear about all the progress you are making. And all the good advice you are getting.

Personally, I am always thrilled when my horse has a long, ground covering stride at the walk. My biggest problem was the rushing home at the end of the ride (buddy sour to a major degree). I have to say the deep breathing is the biggest help in that regard.

I am voting for "Take me home,Country roads" and "Silent Night" as songs for Tango - but I don't think it makes a difference which song. The idea is that one has to breathe when singing.

Good luck,
Lilo
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 29, 2010 - 10:59 am:

I won't add further things to confuse It's very hard to explain anyway!

I think you and Tango will become a team and he will become one of your favorite horses. Hank is not right in the head either, but he is very talented and smart. Consistency is the name of the game with these guys, I can't believe I can finally ride Hank and relax, never thought it would happen! Riding him like he is "normal" helps too. (even tho he is a bit of a nut case) wouldn't have it any other way tho!

Keep up the progress reports, love to hear them
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Thursday, Sep 30, 2010 - 6:48 am:

I hope I can do a photo story for Tango's next progress reports. I have some things in mind to keep things interesting for him. If I can end the year with him trotting calmly with me onboard, I will call it a totally successful year! If he don't freak with me flopping around up there, we've got it made!

And I can't wait to venture out in the woods. Over logs, in and out of little dips in the ground, around trees; that's sooo good for a young horse. As long as I remember how tall he is and duck under tree branches, we should be fine!

Ya'all pray some cowgirl prayer for me that I don't end up hospitalized yet, lol!
Member:
sross

Posted on Sunday, Oct 3, 2010 - 8:49 pm:

This morning I trailered with a friend to a nearby park, riding there for the first time. Horses were pretty frisky, especially mine. He started out tense and spooky, lots of snort and blow, so I just focused on my breathing, relaxation, singing, staying close to our trusty lead horse (his best friend). About half way through the ride, his brain kicked in. All of a sudden he was taking the lead voluntarily, wanting to go over here, look at that, but in a very interested, curious fashion. Here was the horse I wanted to ride! By the end of our ride, he had the most amazing forward swingy walk, not dancy or bowing up like the beginning of the ride. I was thinking about this thread and your discussion of how the snorting helped your horses to find their brain. Sure did feel like that today.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Oct 3, 2010 - 9:54 pm:

Sandra, I wish someone would have told me long ago that meant a horse was "trying to find his brain/relax" LOL. Would have saved me a lot of gray hairs, but it is very true.

Our beans fields got picked and they go on for WIDE open miles. My friend couldn't go for a ride so I took Hank out by himself, he blew and snorted, bowed up and I worked with the energy, once the "sneezing" stopped we had a wonderful ride galloping the bean fields, he definitely found his brain....strange animals huh
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Sunday, Oct 3, 2010 - 9:57 pm:

I am glad you had a wonderful ride Sandra! I don't think I will ever hear a horse snort & blow again without thinking "he's just trying to find his brain." Of course one little snort or bit of blowing don't always mean that, ha ha.

Our weather has been wet and blustery so I haven't rode much. Today was perfect: Pure sunshine and NO wind! Plus I was actually allowed to be home today, that always helps.

So I thought it would be a good day to see if I could just get on Tango and ride, kinda skip all the "let's see what he's going do stuff."

I guess it was a big day for us in one way; no halter on him, no lead rope or lunge line. He was totally tacked up strictly for riding. What a concept, huh?!

But I did walk around the arena, and gave him his choice of sticking by me or running off. He did decide to lunge himself for a few laps after I asked him to walk with me over a RR tie and a fence post I had laid out. Pretty soon he stopped trotting and came ambling over to visit. He still did his weird "back humping butt scooting thingy" that he's always done. I just ignored that except for the one time my foot twisted a bit in a dip in the ground. We both jumped that time.

I went and stood on my mounting block and asked for both sides so I could put the reins on the bit. A little bit slower than I would have liked but we got it.

It did seem to take him longer to "snort, snuff, and blow" but I think I was worried since normally I ask for walk, trot, and brief canter on the lunge line to get the snot outa him and then do some more safely checks.

I also thought of this discussion as I was riding, thinking "come on Tango, relax, do the noisy stuff already!" Took me a few minutes to figure out I HAD TO RELAX more and trust him. It was my goal to trust him enough to skip his mini workout, and now I was blowing it!

We were successful over all. I really am tempted to ride around the farm and in the woods. He's actually fun when we practice moving sideways, and backs well too. I just can't decide how bad a scared bolt can get yet with him. There is still that chance he forgets I am up there and freaks out, but I am not sure if it will balance out with his curiosity if we go exploring? He is so darn curious about every thing! He's so funny to watch when he sees something...this HUGE horse who is not sure if he should run or go closer so it's quite the dance when he's checking out something new.

Probably be pushing it; still a lot I can do in the arena! Just me getting bored.
Member:
sross

Posted on Monday, Oct 4, 2010 - 7:41 am:

Luckily for me, Pacino isn't much of a bolter. He's a stop and stare kind of guy. Then if he can tiptoe up to the scary item and touch it, all is fine. My barn owner thinks he's ADD. I just think he's Curious George.
Member:
dustee

Posted on Monday, Oct 4, 2010 - 7:45 am:

Angie you need to look at horses in the middle of one of their "explosions", and go - one-one thousand, two - one thousand, three one-thousand, etc....and actually count the length of the explosion. Most of them are between three and seven seconds. So, the question is - can you/we keep ourselves together for three to seven seconds.....and frankly, unless they are doing complete cartwheels, yes, is the answer.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Monday, Oct 4, 2010 - 8:16 am:

My Curious George would benefit from ear plugs. It seems to be noise from the saddle or from me that freaks him out.

He will wear the foam noodle thing flopping around on both sides of the saddle, at walk, trot, and canter. But rub it against the saddle, especially right side, and he gets tense, sometimes spooks. So riding in the woods, tree branches making noise as we go under them; might be interesting. Or those dang turkeys!

Diane,

OH BEAN FIELDS!!! BEAN FIELDS!! I haven't rode in miles of bean fields for I bet 30 years! As lovely as the woods are here, I do miss those wide open fields that went on forever!

Take a few laps for me please! (We do need to swap houses & horses. I won't even make you ride Tango if we do that!)
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Monday, Oct 4, 2010 - 8:20 am:

Three to seven seconds is more than enough time to hit the ground! But you are right, those spooks are short lived. And it's been months since Tango really bolted about something and kept going. I just need to put that behind me and focus on NOW.

You are all such a great source of support and ideas!
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Monday, Oct 4, 2010 - 8:00 pm:

I thought it was interesting how today went.

One very major spook in the arena. My silly boy seemed to forget that when I am riding him I do have legs, and those legs may touch his sides...geez already huh?

After arena time I decided to take a walk with him in the woods, thinking maybe I would hop on and ride back. I didn't do that due to my back having a major sore spot that was getting worse as the day progressed. And it was a perfect fall day for a woods walk.

What was amazing was how he walked. Calm and cool, and at MY speed. Taking Tango for walk or ground driving always meant me jogging to keep up! Apparently our bond is getting stronger and all that ground work, and liberty training, and ALL the rest really combines to make for a wonderful NEW horse.

(and I tell him, "Hank figured it out ya know, your turn now" lol!)
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Oct 4, 2010 - 9:22 pm:

Angie it is funny you are going through most things with Tango that I did with Hank

The leg thing, when I would touch Hanks sides with leg we were off like a shot, 2nd trainer again...he really helped me so much with Hank... He told me I trained Hank to do that....sigh. I listened intently to that guy, but it took years for me to finally understand it all and piece the puzzle together. How did I train Hank to do that??? I rode with my leg off and stiff, he rode Hank with leg on (as you should) and had no problems. I made Hank over responsive to leg, because I never used them!!! Of course there is a fine line there, the trainer and I went round and round about this, and a good many of my lessons were based on it. You don't constantly squeeze but your leg should always rest lightly on their sides. The guy finally took a video of me and showed me what I looked like, WOW a video is worth a 1000 words! I NEVER rested my legs they were stiff and away from Hanks body, because of my nervousness...YES I trained Hank to act like that, and to this day I still have to concentrate to keep leg "on" with him...old habits die hard!

#2 lesson from the Parelli trainer the horse should always move at your speed when being led not vice versa, IOW Tango should not be making you trot to keep up with him, but sounds like you have that under control

I'm glad you guys are finally clicking...Unfortunately Hank didn't finally get it...I did Hank is a difficult/smart/very trainable horse horse, most of it was my fault, once we clicked and I stopped fighting the fight and understanding the things I was doing was actually making him act that way things turned around quickly.

If tango bolts/spooks from legs, keep your legs on soon as you hit the saddle, he will quickly get over it.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Monday, Oct 4, 2010 - 10:35 pm:

You are 110% correct, my legs were stiff today. I knew it too, and for some reason didn't change and relax. See, I keep changing saddles as (and this is a big issue) I am not crazy about how either of my saddles fit on him. So today was the treed saddle...no side to side worries, but not as comfy for me. Treeless more comfy, but a bit slickery as he is so round in his barrel yet flat on top. I have 2 saddles up for sale on boards at the feed stores in hopes of them selling and me getting one that fits both of us better.

I guess I always start out thinking he needs to walk for him to relax, need to think about who is really needing to relax here! AND, ride him like I ride Cody or Willow for pete's sake! If I could only erase all the previous memories of what he's done in the past, lol!

My bad.

Maybe instead of all the walking freely with some head lowering I'll try some moving away from the legs first and see how much snorting and blowing he does. Maybe his brain will engage quicker that way?!

What a challenging bugger he is!

Thanks for sharing your challenges with Hank over the years and trainer tips, really a big help for me!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Oct 4, 2010 - 11:21 pm:

Well one more trainer lesson, I'm sure you may have seen me put it elsewhere, but you need to learn to trust. I could not, would not trust Hank...he tried to kill me more than once!! Trainer said until I learn to trust him and give him the opportunity to do the right thing....instead of anticipating and correcting things that I THOUGHT were going to happen we would never get a long... again he was right, but this one was easier said then done!!! Took a long time to get through that obstacle.

I still don't trust the little bugger 100%, but I DO give him the opportunity to do the right thing without getting in his way and 99% of the time he does.

My journey with Hank which included broken ribs, 2 concussions, broken back (or at least it felt broke) The fear of god put in me daily, backing off cliffs, rearing, bucking, refusal to go forward, dancing and prancing, leaping through the air out of the blue and much much more has been very educational, I did almost give up like you and Tango. Like most horses Hank needs a strong leader, if I'm a coward he's a coward, if I doubt myself he will try to take advantage of that. He made me learn how to be an in tune, brave owner. I really thank him for the lessons he has taught me through the years. He is as good as riding partner I can ask for now...he has his moments, but not many. We took a gallop around the bean field tonight it's my birthday today and I was hoping we could have a wonderful ride (started out with NO blowing or snorting) I think he started with a brain and didn't have to find it!!, it was so nice to know I was not going to end up on the ground and enjoy the horned one...he really is a special horse and I think once you learn to trust you will think Tango is too
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 5, 2010 - 7:37 am:

Happy Birthday a few hours late, Diane! I am happy you had a great birthday ride with Hank. I hope you had some special gifts or memories besides horsey ones; cake or wine??

I tell ya, if I had broken ribs or concussions from ANY horse I don't know if I would ever ride that horse again. I can only imagine the fear that would creep into my brain, and into every cell in my body at the thought of riding. No wonder it was such a long challenging journey for you and Hank. Your persistence is admirable, brave lady! (and you lived long enough to have another birthday, lol!)

I haven't been on Tango when he's bucked, reared, or near any cliffs. And his bolts, which I've seen turn into bucking & rearing 100's of times, have been mild with me on board.

One very encouraging thing I've been noticing is he sure is light. Not just when my legs touch him, but he's fairly light in the mouth too. I've had a few spells of a dancing, prancing, Tango especially going sideways along the fence line! Fun to ride! I was actually laughing a few times, thinking what a good boy he was, how "neat" all that power under me felt! I think if I can get the right side of his brain to work, we will have 99% of our problems licked. He's stiff on the right side going around cones, he has trouble moving to the right, and that's his "Oh crap I am outa here" side if he spooks!

Four more days til family comes for hunting, and four more beautiful fall riding days. Armed with new ideas, and confidence, I think it's going to be a great week for Tango and I.

Thanks Diane
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Monday, Nov 8, 2010 - 5:22 pm:

Since my last update my horse time has been very limited. Family here, an out of state funeral, waiting to go to another out of state funeral, and all the last minute things that need to be done before winter sets in. So what I am about to type here really amazes me!

I have had about 6 times that I could work with Tango since my last update. And I don't think he's ever going to be one of those horses who can be ignored for weeks and be expected to be the same ol' same ol' calm good old boy.

Yesterday I spent time grooming him, and saddled him in his stall, did some plastic bag spooky stuff just in case. Moved to the round pen and did some more. He was very calm! Put my foot in the stirrup and thought he was going to run laps but he seemed to catch himself acting silly and stopped. Ended up having a very nice workout with him. In fact, I'd have to say the best ride to date.

Even moved on his sticky side, side passed both directions! Light, lip smacking, ears relaxed, WA HOO!

Today I had a huge piece of that white foam padding stuff from between pieces of siding boards. Rubbed him all over with it, and he ended up wearing it attached to the saddle horn. Looked like he was in a wedding, lol! He wasn't crazy about it especially when it got around his legs, or over his face, but NO MAJOR SPOOKS!

I was sooo proud of him! And I thought o.k., today we will TROT!!! He is as ready as he is ever going to be, so we need to just DO IT.

But, it was not meant to be. He started doing some head flipping thing and our ride was cut short. He was doing that last night too I noticed, so I suspect he either has a weed seed up his nose, or something prickly in his mouth. Some of the hay has had a few weird weeds in it, and he's done this before. It went away on it's own last time, so I will just watch him and see how he acts. I am pretty sure it's not a bit/teeth thing, but just in case...

Wish I could have got pictures today! I am still in disbelief that this jump out of his skin over everything horse was trotting around with this white gauzy stuff billowing out all around him! Heck, he even canter a few strides!

I am pretty darn happy as you can all probably tell!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Nov 8, 2010 - 7:37 pm:

YEA!!! Glad to hear you are progressing and Tango is "retaining". I know how you feel when your hard work finally starts paying off.. It's so exciting!! Here's hoping for a nice trot before the snow flies
Member:
lhenning

Posted on Monday, Nov 8, 2010 - 10:22 pm:

They never cease to amaze, hey? It's what keeps the whole training thing so dag-gone interesting. Kudos to you. I think you're on to something.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 9, 2010 - 7:36 am:

Remember that saying? "When the student is ready, the teacher shall appear." Or something like that!

After spending years watching all the great horse trainers on tv, and reading a slew of books, and of course getting advice on here (very helpful and much appreciated!) I feel like I made a full circle applying all the different methods. Then I happen to see a few DVR'd shows: Some Parelli, some Gingerich, and I read an article by the Dances with Horses guy, Hempfling is it? I got my Dances with Horses book back out, and a few things seemed to really stand out from all:

Horses need a leader.

Taking walks with your horse following behind is GOOD, never mind the "experts" say the horse should walk at your shoulder or where ever.

Waving something scary at your horse to desensitize is just plain dumb! Rub him with it first, keep asking for head lowering. (Worked with the "wedding veil" yesterday, lol!)

Trust your horse, trust your instincts.

And now that I have soo much new found wisdom, I am thinking about adopting a mustang, lol! But I will probably have to wait til Tango and I canter,;-) and of course it all depends on the economic mess too.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 9, 2010 - 9:46 am:

Oh darn! I think Tango may have some teeth issues after all that are causing the nose flipping. I just gave him a good going over and definitely something going on with his right side. Very sharp points way back there! I am going to give his mouth a good rinsing later and see if I can grab his tongue and really look inside his checks for sores.

It is NOT in the budget for the only vet in the area (and that area is not close to me) that does teeth to make a visit! Hopefully a friend of mine still has her dental tools and we can do enough to make him comfortable.

What is it with this horse that we keep hitting road blocks?!?!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 9, 2010 - 1:01 pm:

Angie do you have a bosal or a sidepull you could use? Heck even a halter with ropes worked on Hank.. he actually goes better without a bit then with one.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 9, 2010 - 4:46 pm:

I have both Diane, neither fit his big head.

It has been one of those days! Earlier I fell over something in my daughters room and banged my knee hard enough I had tears in my eyes. Lots of cussing and I managed to not sniffle too much.

Out in the barn, I carefully and lovingly rinsed Tango's mouth, grabbed his tongue, looked for sores or anything that might be bothering him. He has sharp edges, but so do the other horses and I know from past experiences many times these things come and go, and don't bother every horse every time. So no clear answer on his nose flipping issue. I think mouth, could be ear or nostril too.

I was determined to TROT him today. He was determined to test me! We no more and got in the round pen, and he did his stupid back humping butt scooting jump that he has perfected so well and stamped on my right foot! (Remember a few years ago he did that to my LEFT FOOT??)

More cussing from me!

I decided that was enough of that! So he worked, and he worked some more. I very seldom do that method to a horse, but enough is enough. 'Nways, my foot was throbbing and I wasn't about to let him go back to his stall so I could doctor my foot. If I was in pain, he was going to work!

I did get on him, and he did trot a few strides. Nothing to brag about, I think he was wondering IF he could trot with me on him, lol! Nothing done in anger, but he did work for me.

My cell rang while I was on him, and I got the anticipated message my gramma had passed away.
Makes me wonder if the foot stamping was a message from my gramma? It would be just like her, lol!

So my bugger boy will have 3 days off to "think"(ya right) about his actions. And then it will be rifle season Monday; and probably snow after that.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 9, 2010 - 7:54 pm:

Sorry to hear about your grandmother's passing. And the knee and the stomped foot don't sound like fun at all. Stinking trickster!
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 - 12:25 am:

HA HA, Tango the Trickster! I like that. Thank you for your kind words. I am supposed to be sleeping in preparation for the 8 hr drive tomorrow...oops, today, but my foot is hurting. I am pretty lucky that both times I've just got a huge bruise and pain, nothing broken.

Two feet stomped on in 2 years was it? Maybe the trickster is working his way up til he hits my head and I should pay attention.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 - 6:47 am:

What a bad day!!! condolences on grandma

Angie this is speaking from My experience with Hank, so may not be applicable. I always held Hank tighter than I should, and the head flipping and refusals started. I was not a beginner rider, he just made me very nervous. I did NOT think I held him to tight...he DID. If you have an enclosed area, try trotting him with no rein pressure " a passenger ride" I did the passenger rides with Hank and helped me learn to trust and leave his mouth alone....was a great leap of faith to do that!!! but it worked out great.

These "horned ones" can bring out some bad riding habits, that we don't normally have.
Member:
lilo

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 - 9:44 am:

Angie, my condolences on the passing of your grandmother.
So sorry you had a bad day on all fronts. I second Diane's suggestion - a passenger ride in the round pen should be pretty safe. I have to add - if a horse is used to a bridle and bit, and is having no issues with it, a passenger ride in a halter can be confusing for them. My mare thought it was really weird that she was not getting any guidance from me.
Take care, and do be careful,
Lilo
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Friday, Nov 12, 2010 - 1:25 pm:

Thank you Diane and Lilo for your kind words and suggestions.

Just to clarify, Tango is shaking his head out in the pasture too, it's not a riding/biting issue. I don't ride with tight reins, and NO NO NO I am NOT riding him in just a halter. I believe in riding as naturally as possible meaning without using the reins to apply bit pressure. I love trying to see how little it takes to get a horse to change gaits, or direction change; using weight shifts, breathing etc. I am not great at what I do, but enjoy the journey. I do believe in having a bit in the horses mouth though!

As for my foot getting stamped on, my fault. I had a weird nervous feeling all day and thought I probably shouldn't work with him. I have no doubt he picked up on the vibes coming from his leader and he felt insecure. It's the kind of horse he is!

Look for my "traveling with that darn cat" story in the lounge section in a day or two.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, Nov 12, 2010 - 4:04 pm:

AHHH gotcha, LOL to not riding with a bit, I never thought I would be brave enough to ride Hank without one either, he hasn't seen a bit for a year, I actually think he is better without one, he has a weird shaped mouth and a bit doesn't fit him well.

Cats are so much fun to travel with!!!
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