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  Discussion on Standardbred vs Morab - Trail Horse
Author Message
Member:
leec

Posted on Monday, Apr 11, 2011 - 8:26 pm:

Hi all,

I’m just looking for some feedback on temperament and conformation of these two breeds. I have never owned either type, but we are going to look at both of these horses as a trail horse for my husband (western riding) who is a beginner rider. They look so different from the QH and QH crosses I’m used to seeing! However, both 'sound' like they could be what we’re looking for – they are the same price. These are the best pics I have.

The mare is a 15.2hh, 7 yr old Standardbred. I’m guessing she’s raced as she’s freeze branded and those marks on her cannons are from 'blistering/firing' or something, correct? What are some things to consider as a result of that? Conformation wise, the first thing I notice is her high wither, however I don’t think it should be a problem with a properly fitted saddle. Personally, I find her large head endearing

mare 1

mare 2

The gelding is a 15.3hh, 17 yr old Morab. He appears to be built downhill, maybe?? He's opposite in the wither area. From what the seller has described, he may be a little more energetic than the mare. However, he’s 10 years older, so that should balance out with life experience... He’s 'prettier', but that is at the bottom of the priority list, with safe and sound being at the top.

geld 1

geld 2

Any thoughts about these two horses would be greatly appreciated, especially any soundness issues they might be predisposed to re: their breeds. Oh, both of these horses are trained to drive, if that's useful...

Thank you,
Lee C
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 12, 2011 - 7:33 am:

Hi Lee,

Both these horses are very pretty, I like the standardbreds dapples and as I am partial to Standardbreds having ridden and raced them for much of my life. Do you know if the mare is a trotter or pacer and if she has been broken to ride at all three gaits. Usually Standardbreds are very well trained are very patient and can go forever depending on conditioning.

If you would like to send me her freeze brand I can find out her registered name for you. Or you can go to www.ustrotting.com and find it under horse/name tatoo.

Standardbreds are very versatile and learn quickly, plus you have the added benefit of being able to drive them as well.

Best of Luck with either of them, my vote is the mare. But, I am very biased.

Rachelle
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 12, 2011 - 8:03 am:

I am a bit partial to the Morab based on the breeds, but I think he has long pasterns, and stands under himself in front. This may be from being improperly trimmed for years. And being build downhill a bit does cause saddling issues. He may already have sore areas.

I'd vote for the Standardbred if I were getting a horse for my husband. I know only too well what happens when I pick a horse on pretty, and one who is light enough for MY standards and then expect hubby to ride the horse!

Has he rode both of them? He'll probably feel comfortable on one and not the other. Take your time. The first horse we got for my husband had more issues then we could deal with and turned him off to riding for a couple of years. She was my idea, being a Tenn Walker, no trot for him to learn. She was crazy to ride! He picked the next horse, and I almost died when he said he bought an Arabian mare. You've heard me mention Fancy maybe? Perfect horse for him. He still don't know how lucky he was to get her, and we both miss her; she was that one in a million horse that you meet once in a lifetime.

Good luck, and have fun shopping!
Member:
leec

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 12, 2011 - 11:58 am:

Hi Rachelle,
I believe her Reg'd name is Kipinator. We are in BC, Canada, but I'm not sure where she was foaled. I have a picture of her trotting under saddle - see below. My impression is that she's been ridden for awhile. She's apparently done some cattle penning/sorting in addition to being used on the trails.

Here are a couple more pics. Do the mare's heels look a little under-run here? Angie KJ, now that you mention pasterns, even though he has weight on him in the pic below, does that pastern look weaker than it should? The downhill-ness does concern me a bit. We do go up and down some pretty steep terrain - I'm envisioning the back of my hubbys head resting on the top of the horses bum We are trying the mare on Friday and the gelding is 6 hrs away, so we thought we'd see how it goes with the mare first. We definitely want to be thorough in our search, but of course we have to purchase within our means...
Thank you for your input,
Lee C

mare trot

mare side

geld walk
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 12, 2011 - 1:22 pm:

Hard to say without knowing what stage the hoof is in regarding trim schedule. A good trim may change things a bit. Just from the pictures so far, I'd go with the mare for hoofs and the rest of the horse. I've read that many think a more upright pastern is stronger the hoof is easier to maintain form. But of course that would mean an upright shoulder too perhaps?

Disposition first with feet an almost tie for first for what matters ;-).

Rachelle, what do you think of the mare's confirmation and hoofs?
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 12, 2011 - 7:59 pm:

Hi Lee,

Just in case your interested. I found some stats on her. Her registered name is Kipanator. Her sire is As Promised and her Dam's name is Sarah Pride.

She has 56 lifetime starts 4 wins 4 seconds and 10 3rds. She made $33,537 lifetime and she last raced in 2010. Her lifetime best record is 1:58 flat. Her real birthday is May 14, 2004.

As far as her feet go, she does look low in the heel and a little long in the toe, but like Angie said its hard to tell where she is in her trim cycle. I would also say since she recently raced, she was pretty much kept up to date on any required vaccinations necessary to race in Canada.

Standardbreds on the whole are pretty healthy, are very tough constitution wise, don't seem to suffer from most maladies that plague other horses(laminitis etc) are usually pretty stoic and can get used to just about anything.

My first racehorse, also doubled as my riding horse and we used to go for long trail rides in the state preserve that bordered the training farm where I used to keep him. So, they do make good trail horses. Brings back memories of the good old days.

Best of luck
Rachelle
Member:
leec

Posted on Thursday, Apr 14, 2011 - 10:36 am:

Thank you for the info, Rachelle – that is so cool! I love knowing a horse’s history! I looked into her sire and he was/is a bit of a big deal here in Canada. He was inducted in the Standardbred Hall of Fame in 2005.

I’m curious... if the mare had 56 starts over say 4 or 5 years, would that mean she was raced lightly, moderately or hard? I’ve also noticed that beside the names of horses who’ve raced there is a letter (p or t) I guess for pace or trot, then a number (2, 3 or 4) – what does the number stand for? Following that is a time and then a dollar amount, which I assume is the horse’s best time and earnings.

Will let you know how it goes tomorrow
Lee C
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Thursday, Apr 14, 2011 - 10:22 pm:

Hi Lee,

I would say raced lightly. Most Standardbreds that race weekly usually get between 35-45 starts a year. My mare who is 6 has about 65 starts and she started racing at 2 and gets the winters off.

When you see P,2,1:58, it means she took her record on the pace as a 2 year old.

Good Luck tomorrow
Rachelle
Member:
alden

Posted on Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 - 9:27 am:

Hi, just a couple observations.

Somebody may correct me if I'm mistaken because I don't have much experience with race horses. But I don't think they pinfire a horse's legs as a precautionary treatment, I would think the pinfiring indicates she has been lame racing. Now she might be just fine as a trail horse, that'd be a question for the vet during a purchase exam.

More importantly I agree with Angie, let your husband decide on a horse. What does beginning trail riding mean to him. A friend of my in California had just one criteria for a great trail horse, if his saddle bags of Bud light were shaken in the first mile the horse failed the test :-) And he wasn't a beginning rider, that was just his idea of a trail ride. He had a Quarter horse that was just fine sleeping under a shade tree with him as he was keeping up with the pack; a perfect fit!

The pictures you have posted have you riding both of these horses with an English saddle and rein contact. What is their attitude like with Western tack and a loose rein. One of my primary criteria for a trail horse is will they relax and travel on a loose rein? I hate having to constantly have rein contact with my horse, after six or seven hours of that and we are both on the verge of loosing it:-) But then I ride long distance trail competitively

I wouldn't rule out purebred Arabian, specially if there's any possibility your husband may want to do a long distance sport. Started right there's no reason an Arabian can't be soft and relaxed on the trail and they are very loyal once they take to a person.

Just a couple thoughts that I had reading the posts to your question.

Good day,
Alden
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 - 10:14 am:

Hi Alden,

I would say in most cases pin firing can be used as a precautionary measure, but it does not mean they were lame racing. The pin firing marks on this mare look to be in the splint area, if I am seeing these correctly, I can't tell if it involves the check ligament or not. Some trainers think if a horse pops a splint it needs to be blistered or pin fired as a matter of course. My experiences with them is that the more you aggravate it, the worse it tends to get. I also don't think it heals them any faster, than just leaving them alone and giving them time off to heal.

Also, these may freeze firing marks from a cryogenic pin firing machine and not the hot pin fining they used to do years ago.

My 3 year colt wound up with a splint, and it wasn't from training, since he was in the field turned out at the time it happened. I never did anything to it, just left him alone. It never bothered him and all it is now is an unsightly lump that is getting smaller on its own. And now he is in training.

These may have been field splints that she had as a young horse, just like my colts were and since this mare raced 56 times with a pretty good in the money percentage, I don't think lameness was the problem, lack of speed maybe for the higher classes where she would have had to race was probably more of a contributory factor to her being retired as a riding horse.

Rachelle
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 - 11:33 am:

Alden,

the Bud Light story cracked me up! The first time I took hubby riding, (25+ years ago) he a couple of them before he got on the horse, lol! Might be a good idea for all test rides? Have a drink first??

Now, on a more serious note, to this day my husband wants a horse that goes forward, right, left, and stops when he wants him to stop. And not a horse he has to constantly moniter as Alden says with a horse trained to ride on contact. A horse I would be bored to tears with. And we don't ride together much since I am constantly "tweaking" all our horses since my beliefs are the better trained a horse is, the safer s/he is.

Waiting for a report Lee.
Member:
leec

Posted on Saturday, Apr 16, 2011 - 3:59 pm:

Okay...

Well, she is a sweet little mare! We trail rode for 4 hours on mostly steep and very rough terrain. This mare barely broke a sweat. Enroute we passed a noisy tractor on the road, barking dogs, horses galloping along the fenceline, sheep etc. and she was not concerned about any of it. She is very quiet and, well lazy, my legs certainly got a workout with getting her to keep up to the other horse She is green under saddle in that she is not very responsive to leg aids and is just used to following the horse in front of her, so was a little hesitant to lead at first. You can ride her with contact or on a loose rein. After a canter, you can just DrOp the reins and she plods along again. The horse the seller rode had several 'issues' along the way and the mare was not bothered by the other horse’s drama, not even when she was backed into. The biggest negative about her is someone did not do a good job introducing her to the saddle She is not only girthy, she pins her ears when you throw the saddle blanket on and while you are working anywhere around the saddle area (adjusting stirrups etc.). She did not swing her head around and threaten me at any time, but the seller commented that she (the horse) ‘was very good with me'...She is also unhappy when you remove the saddle. With patience and understanding I think her attitude could be made better about this, but I would not have a beginner rider (my husband) saddle her at this time.

She fits perfect in that my husband only wants to plod along behind me and enjoy the scenery. Other than the saddling, her ground manners are excellent. She has great feet. We did a fairly hard ride over a lot of rocky ground and she is barefoot – she was not at all ouchy.

The negatives are the saddling issues. She is also underweight at this time - I’d say a b/s of 3-4. She was apparently in with 3 Warmblood mares up until a week ago and was not getting her share. There are a few other things I noticed which may or may not be a problem regarding soundness in the future. The skin over her left knee is loose, as if there was some swelling there at one time. Both her hocks have curbs and there is a thickening over the front of her right rear cannon. Given our ride, I think she is sound at this time, although I’m not seeing her today...

I researched what the average price is for Standardbreds off the track and going under saddle - the seller is asking double the amount on the high end of the average. If the seller is willing to negotiate considerably on the price, I think we will take her for a 2 week trial and my husband can be the final judge...

Lee C
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