This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Training, Behavior, & Conditioning Horses » Musculoskeletal Conditioning » Training Your Horse's Body topics not covered by the above »
  Discussion on Tying horse's head around
Author Message
Member:
Julieh

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 21, 2005 - 4:50 pm:

I am fairly new to showing horses and my knowledge of the tips and tricks of trainers are limited. Does anyone know anything about tying a horse's head around to aid them in keeping their head down while showing? The sound of this makes me hurt and the sight is even worse. From what I see, the horse is saddled and bridled, one rein is tied to the back of the saddle somehow where the horse's head is turned to the side. The other rein is loose, tied to the saddle horn. He is made to stand that way for an hour or maybe longer. All he is able to do is either stand still with his head bent, or walk around in a small circle. I know this is not allowed at horse shows because I have heard this. Does anyone have any experience with this and what is the damage that this can cause?
Member:
Pbauer

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 21, 2005 - 5:16 pm:

Julie,

It sounds wicked. Is this being done by a
trainer?
Member:
Christos

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 21, 2005 - 5:35 pm:

I agree with your feelings, Julie, this practice is medieval.
Yes, a horse can not lift it's head when it is bent like this, so some "trainers" use it to teach low head carriage.
The truth is this trick teaches the horse nothing, it only makes the neck so sore that the horse is reluctant to lift it's head for the rest of the day.
This is no training trick, it is pure abuse, rightfully forbidden.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 21, 2005 - 5:47 pm:

Next time you see this being done, you should report it to the show management as abuse, which I believe it is.

I, too, have seen this done, usually in a stall. It is right up there with some of the other "training shortcuts" that are abusive and accomplish nothing in the long run as far as being "trained" goes.
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 21, 2005 - 6:52 pm:

Julie,
I agree totally with everyone else here. I, too have seen this done and consider it abuse, though I have seen much worse. Just curious, what kind of show was it and what breed of horse?
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 21, 2005 - 7:04 pm:

We had a problem with a woman who would do this after barrel racing shows. like the horse didn't have enough stress after a show. or a bad day of training. she would do this and tie him, place him in the stall. And leave him there for hours. I remember goiung out and untieing him. (i lived at the stables) And leaving a note that this is cruel and in humane. and if she ever did it again we would call ASPCA... it caused a huge fight. But ultimately, its a cowboy practice. And some yeehaw trainers still do this.
Her reasoning was to make the horse more supple in the turns. In reality all it did was make the horse sore and sour.
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 21, 2005 - 7:19 pm:

Julie, this is a common practice among many trainers, and you can find it explained in many horse-training books, but . . . it DOES make the horse sore. You can get better results by training from the ground with a bridle or lead-rope and halter, or from the horse's back with a snaffle bit. Many more gentle training techniques are being taught today, but there are still many trainers who use this as a "short-cut." When a trainer ties a horse's head around, he/she doesn't have to BE there or teach the horse to be responsive to a cue to DrOp its head. Short-cuts are dangerous; good training takes time, time, time, time, and energy and focus and consistent communication between the horse and handler, not between the horse and some inanimate object that CANNOT praise the horse and give the horse the release cue that says, "Good job . . . you did it correctly." Please read some John Lyons, Julie Goodnight, and Clinton Anderson . . . I know there are others, too. The "DrOp your head" cue is something that we can teach by communicating with the horse through the reins without causing confusion, resistance and painful, tired muscles.
Member:
Julieh

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 21, 2005 - 10:18 pm:

My horse is a QH and this practice is being done at the trainers barn. At one of the shows, he did not do very well in the ring (raising his head) and throwing his head when I tried to slow his lope. When we took him back to his stall, he was "tied around" and I was told to "watch and make sure no one saw". If someone was to walk up, I was to untie him. As soon as he walked off, I untied him. I was so upset with the whole deal. I told my husband then that if this is what showing was all about, I wanted no part. I have been told I have "too much heart" and I have to get tough to this. I don't believe that. I believe that love and trust go so much further than abuse and torture. I am new at showing and new at riding other than for pure pleasure riding at the barn. I think I need to go back to what I love most. My horses at my barn are not treated this way and I cannot treat the show horses this way. I appreciate all the input I have gotten. I am glad my thinking is in line with everyone elses.
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 21, 2005 - 10:58 pm:

Julie,
If you really want to show, there are many trainers out there who do not resort to "shortcuts" such as this. Maybe someone on this site could help you find someone in your area. Showing can be a lot of fun and you can meet many good people. It is unfortunate that your first experience was so unpleasant (understatement). Congratulations to you for questioning what you saw and for caring more for your horses than for showing. That said, I still believe that there are many more good people who show and don't resort to abuse to win. Good luck with whatever way you go.
Kathleen
Member:
Leilani

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 21, 2005 - 11:43 pm:

Wow, I am always amazed that this sort of thing is still going on. The ranch I boarded at sometime ago, had a big name trainer from Texas give us a clinic and he had one lady use a wire hanger on her horse. I forfeited my fees and didn't ride in the 2nd half.

There is so much information out there now about horse training. I recommend that everyone read the book about the "Revolution in Horsemanship" by Rick Lamb and Dr. Miller. It does mention that a lot of regions have superb riders (Hawaii included), but at best they are crude horseman.

I would rather be remembered as a good horsewoman than a good rider. When I have a gut feeling, I follow it. Better to err on the side of the horse (credit to Mark Rashid).

Leilani
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 22, 2005 - 12:14 am:

We've shown for a lot of years and have done a lot of winning, and our horses have never been abused by us or by trainers. You don't have to stay with an abusive trainer to win. Any trainer who resorts to such practices is showing his own lack of knowledge or ability. I think I am right in saying that all the breed and show organizations are doing all they can to fight abuse of show horses, and there are organizations whose sole purpose is to stop horse abuse. However, it is up to other horse owners to report any abuse they see by either trainer or owners.
Member:
Green007

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 22, 2005 - 9:23 am:

I agree with all sentiments above. Good training takes time. If the horse can't hold a "frame" he is not strong enough in his topline to do so and just needs more time under saddle.

Forcing the head down in a stall for hours on end will only make a horse sore and miserable. It is a cruel practice and should be reported to show authorities. If the trainer does this at a recognized show (including AQHA shows) he or she could be fined and suspended from showing the circuit in the future. Get out your rulebook for your respective show circuit (or download it online) and READ the rules to see what is allowed and what is not allowed. Some trainers deserve to be suspended, as the only way they will even consider making a change is when it affects their livelihood.

Just remember, it is fairly easy for you to leave the trainer and find a better one that doesn't use such methods, but please keep in mind the horses that are left behind. Be an advocate for these horses, too. They need you.
Member:
Chohler

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 22, 2005 - 2:18 pm:

Wow! I can't believe people still do this. You should find yourself a trainer that can help you teach your horse to be soft. Or attend a clinic of a good trainer if you think you can put the time into teaching your horse yourself. And I would definitly report the trainer.

I just attended a Bryan Nuebert Clinic in Wyoming he learned from Tom Dorrance, while still cowboy ways I learned a lot about getting my horse to soften especially when asking for changes in speed and direction. Most people force to much at a time and don't recognize when the horse tries, it's all baby steps but each step leads to the next.

Remember if you are uncomfortable with what is being done, your horse sure the heck is even more upset about the ordeal and not understand what is being forced out of him.
Member:
Julieh

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 22, 2005 - 4:04 pm:

I think my biggest worry right now is what damage has been done and how affected is he by the treatment he has received thus far. I have a horse right now who was mistreated in training and I have been working with her for several months and have sent her to a natural horsemanship trainer for 60 days and I am not sure that she will ever trust again. I am keeping hope that it will happen, but she absolutely does not trust the human race. I am definitely bringing him home and what we have in store for the future is unknown right now. I would love to continue showing, but truth be known, the whole ordeal has left a bad taste!!!
Member:
Green007

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 22, 2005 - 4:29 pm:

Your horse has suffered abuse but be careful as there is also such thing as being too soft and letting a horse get away with things because you don't want to "hurt" him, especially if he has been handled harshly in the past. Don't fall into this trap either! Both extremes are just that, extremes.

Horses are fairly resilient creatures. With time, patience and good training (kind, but firm), your horse will be back in synch before you know it.
Member:
Julieh

Posted on Friday, Jul 15, 2005 - 10:07 am:

Hello everyone! I just wanted to tell everyone I brought my horse home on July 1st. He had some pretty nasty marks beside his mouth from the incident but they have healed and so have we. He is doing great and seems to be enjoying humane treatment! I wanted to thank everyone again for your help and support!
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Friday, Jul 15, 2005 - 10:29 am:

So glad to hear it, Julie. Happy horses with happy horse owners . . . That's the way it should be.
Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC