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  Discussion on Hard to catch and aggressive
Author Message
Member:
heidim

Posted on Monday, Jun 20, 2011 - 6:34 pm:

Hi. I purchased a yearling mini mule that had been used in a petting zoo as a foal. Her owner "taught" him to load and tie but all she did when we took her home was pull and pull. I kept her in a stall for a month and handled her daily. She never really liked it much but gave in to some degree. I finally let her out with our herd, and she's gone back to being wild. Whenever I try to get near her, she kicks out at me. If I reprimand her, she runs off and I can't even get close to her. Right now, I've got her sniffing my hand through the fence again but as soon as that fence disappears between me and her, she's gone. How do I gain her trust without getting kicked in the process?
Member:
heidim

Posted on Monday, Jun 20, 2011 - 8:00 pm:

I decided to elaborate. When I first tried to approach the mule, she kicked at me. I had a small rock hidden in my hand and caught her mid action. I'd tried a whip earlier but then she'd bolt away at the sight of it. When I say she wasn't real responsive to handling in the stall, that's my way of saying that in some ways it felt like starting all over with her every day. The other day, I got her to smell my hand through the fence; then, when I stepped into the paddock to catch her stablemate, the mule wheeled and kicked at me. I'm really starting to wonder if this is worth it. When I first went to get her, the owner said the mule had been fighting the rope for a whole hour. It seems she'd have given up sooner than that, wouldn't you think? How does one tell if the problem requires additional patience and training or if behavior is hard wired and beyond fixing? Thanks for letting me write all that's on my mind.
Member:
canter

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 21, 2011 - 7:21 am:

Hi Heidi,

It seems to me that you will have to start completely from the beginning with your little mule. Pretend she is a wild mustang fresh caught off the range, her only interaction with humans having been negative. It will take a lot of time and patience, but given her age, it's likely you can over come this. I wouldn't push her, let her come to you. Show her you are not a threat. That said, kicking out is unacceptable.

I've never dealt with mules, but assume they live up to their reputation of being stubborn, so she may take a bit longer to accept you than the average horse? I don't know.

We do have a member on HA that runs a mule/donkey rescue. I hope she sees your post and can provide much more insight and help. Good luck!
Member:
heidim

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 21, 2011 - 9:24 am:

Okay, so just letting her smell my hand through the fence is a good start then, right?
Member:
canter

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 21, 2011 - 10:06 am:

I would think so, Heidi. If you have her in an open space, where she can choose to approach you (with no danger to you, a place where you wouldn't be cornered) or move away, I would also consider getting a stool or bucket and just sit out in that area with her, doing nothing. If she gets close, maybe offer her a treat or a little hay. the goal is to build trust, without her establishing dominence over you.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 21, 2011 - 11:53 am:

I think Fran gives good advice Heidi. You will have to shape positive behavior a little bit at a time. Be careful, there is a tendency to reward bad behavior with the idea to make friends. Offering treats to try to tempt a standoffish horse to come to you is an example. The treat is offered once the horse makes a positive step in your direction. At this stage I would avoid negative reinforcement if at all possible. Once you do get your hands on the little fellow better would be placement in a smaller enclosure like a round pen.
DrO
Member:
heidim

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 21, 2011 - 9:11 pm:

Okay, I'm confused: is it good to lure a standoff horse or is that rewarding bad behavior?
Member:
juliem

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 21, 2011 - 9:23 pm:

I agree you need to start with this mule as if she's never been handled. Dr. O is right, move her into a smaller area like a small round pen, but bigger than a stall to keep yourself safe and her from feeling trapped. Last fall I had a weanling that had never been handled. Since several people had asked me how I'd approach such a situation, I wrote a blog. It's long and wordy, but it describes in great detail each step. The format of the blog puts the very first entry clear to the bottom of the page. So you need to scroll down to start reading. The last post is the one at the top of the page. The filly is now a well behaved yearling with all the fundamental skills. Here's the link: https://aweanlingsjourney.blogspot.com/ If you stick with it and read, it will answer a lot of your questions. You've got quite a project on your hands, but it can be extremely rewarding and gratifying. Good luck, Julie
Member:
heidim

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 22, 2011 - 10:41 am:

The other day, I noticed Peggy Sue walk toward me (and away from her herd mates) when I approached the corral. She looked more curious than anything. Maybe that's a good sign, though. Her only job is lawn ornament, so I have plenty of time to take all your good advice. Many thanks for sharing...I feel more hopeful.
Member:
canter

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 22, 2011 - 4:24 pm:

Heidi, to answer your question, I believe DrO meant this: don't "bribe' the horse (or in this case, the mule) to come to you with a treat. Wait til she comes to you of her own free will,because she's curious or wants a scratch, or any reason other than the treat in your hand and then reward. There's a difference.
Member:
heidim

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 22, 2011 - 9:46 pm:

That makes sense. Thanks for the tip and clarification, Fran. I could easily see myself tripping up on that point.
Member:
annimule

Posted on Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 - 12:13 pm:

Mules take more patience than you can imagine. They are much smarter and much more sensitive than either horses or donkeys. They do not forget. By throwing a stone at her she now knows she cant trust you.... I would use clicker training to gain her confidence. Be prepared to work at behaviors for a while. It takes as long as it takes. We use clicker training for all the animals that come into the rescue and have great success with it. You are dealing with an animal unlike any other. I love them and they have taught me a lot. Patience is one of the many things they have taught me. In my opinion very few people know how to "successfully" and humanely deal with mules.
Member:
heidim

Posted on Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 - 3:45 pm:

Ann, I trained my dog with a clicker, and it worked great. That's something I hadn't thought of for the mule. It will be tough to offer treat her (after a click) if she won't freely approach me, though. Or do you have another way to do it?
Member:
annimule

Posted on Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 - 6:10 pm:

Heidi, The clicker training you did with your dog is the same thing you will do with your mule. I would start with teaching your mule to target an object while in a stall with you on the outside. Have a pan set up in the stall so you can toss a treat, we use hay stretcher pellets one at a time, into the pan after you click. Feel free to email me privately if you would like help. awfirestone@gmail.com

Good luck! Mules are so much fun to clicker train cause they get it so fast! We do 15 minute sessions at least three times a day and training usually goes pretty quickly. Have fun.
Member:
heidim

Posted on Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 - 8:33 pm:

That sounds doable enough. Thanks for the tip. If I was feeling hopeful before, I'm feeling even more so now.

Thanks to everyone for the excellent feedback. HA comes through once again!
Member:
cmatexas

Posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2011 - 5:16 pm:

We have a 2 yo that was a total poot as a weanling and yearling, very aggressive at feeding time. He had been fed in his stall, without a human or other horse around him to establish a boss a feeding time. He would really get you in the stall.

Anyway, we started feeding him in a small turnout area, about the size of a round pen. I simply took a chair, and small crop to keep him away, and a book. Sat there and chilled until he finally got bored and had to come eat next to me. Of course, he was corrected if he was aggressive, and it doesn't sound like you have that problem. But it was a way to teach him to accept humans in his area, to calm down, and food/hunger is a great motivator! lol So, if you're going to have to sit and be patient with him, this is just a suggestion to get him used to being in your area without having a battle, and without having to give a treat from your hand.
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