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  Discussion on Next step after bad weekend?
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Member:
heidim

Posted on Sunday, May 26, 2013 - 4:32 pm:

Help please. I bought a teenage 13.2 mule gelding about a year ago. I trail rode him a handful of times last year, and he'd behaved well. He does need some ground work (standing still while mounting, moving away from pressure, CATCHING better), so I've been spending time with him on the ground this rainy spring. However, I had yet to get on his back before I took him to a large organized trail ride this weekend. When I went to get him for the ride, the mule became difficult to catch again...a step backward. I was only able to catch him once the horse left the corral, at which time the mule always becomes easy to catch. To our knowledge, this was the first organized ride both equines had been on. They were a little on edge, but nothing out of the ordinary. The next day, my daughter and I took a short ride on mostly flat ground. Unfortunately, I have yet to find a britchen, but he'd done okay on much smaller group trail rides up and down hills and so I wasn't concerned. As soon as I tacked up and got on, though, I saw he was putting his head down. Hard to tell if it was to buck but the whole fit seemed off, so I got off and changed to what I hoped was a better fitting saddle. That seemed to do the trick for the first 15 minutes. Both equines were anxious but settled into a nice pace...until we started back to the campground and rode down a slight incline. The saddle slid forward and he went bucking. We parted company. He then ambled off on his own for a few minutes before getting tangled in his reins. Then he stopped, turned around, and walked right back to me. That made me really glad we'd been working on his being caught! At this point, I was between a rock and a hard place...I know it's important to get back on after his bucking me off, but the tack was clearly a problem. So I opted to walk him back to camp and work him on the ground in the campground arena before tying him back up at the trailer. I figured this was the best I could do to keep from rewarding him entirely for bucking me off.

Both equines stayed the night at the campground, and in the morning we headed home. Before putting them away, we decided to worm them. The horse did fine as always. The mule didn't like my worming him a few months ago...he fussed until I repeatedly worked my finger into the corner of his mouth and then inserted the wormer...but that seemed to do the trick. This time, he struck out at me repeatedly and threatened to kick, too. I was able to finish the job by standing on the other side of the hitching post, which happens to have a sturdy crossbar halfway between the rail and the ground. Every time he struck out, his leg hit the crossbar and I reprimanded him with my voice. I slowly kept up rubbing the side of his mouth with my finger and then the tip of the paste wormer...thankfully, it was apple flavored...until he quit striking and eventually quieted enough to passively accept the wormer.

Okay, I'm baffled. Why does he seem to be going backwards in progress? Was it the stress of the organized ride? Or is he upping the testing now that he knows me a little better?

Just so you know, I am teaching him to be caught by making him run every time he darts away from me or shows his rump in the corral. When he faces me, I am all peaches and cream. It's worked the last three times until, of course, I really needed to catch him for this weekend's ride. Even then, though, I was able to catch him...just not by the way I'd been doing.

Guess I'd like suggestions on what to do with him next. I admit to having concerns about him potentially having "won" and so trying to buck me off even when I have a better saddle setup. I'm also not sure what to think about that worming episode. Just so you know, I have no round pen, so I work him in our large hilly corral area and in a flatter pasture. I know none of his background...he was purchased from a private owner who sold him to a dealer. I'm aware his issues come from previous mishandling, but I'm willing to work with him if I can find ways to stay reasonably safe (let's face it...no horse is 100% safe).

Thanks,

Heidi
Member:
heidim

Posted on Monday, May 27, 2013 - 10:22 am:

Just read the excellent article about aggression in horses. Forgot to mention the mule has been nipping, too, but I'd attributed that to my rewarding him with a carrot after I'd haltered him (but not as a lure to catching him). Not that I think nipping is okay...I just now realize it's more aggression and I'm going to be ready for it. I like, too, that I can continue with the carrots and still reprimand for the nipping. Now that I've got a little more knowledge, I've got some specific questions related to my first posting in this discussion:

1) I do use a tough voice ("Here!") when my equine's misbehave, and I have cropped the mule one when I first got him and he tried to crowd and kick me during grooming. Should I DrOp the "Here!" all together? A mare sometimes squeals when reprimanding her foal, so it's seems that should be okay. I've seen people yelling and screaming at their horses, and do understand the difference.

2) An article I read on catching horses says to get them to face you but to zigzag and to avoid looking them in the eye when approaching. Does this sound right? If so, then do I only look him in the eye when he's trying to actually dominate me, so that I show him I plan on becoming the dominator? In other words, how do I draw the line between non threatening body language and submissive body language?

3) Was the latest worming fiasco possibly due to his bucking me off and my not getting back on? I'm looking for an explanation, seeing as our previous worming ended up on a positive note and he appeared to escalate out of nowhere the second time around. I realize there's no way to psychoanalyze here...just looking for possible insights.

4) If he kicks at me, there's the possibility that he'll escalate and try to kick me again. Any tips on staying safe while maintaining dominance?

5) The mule shows signs of both good handling and bad handling. For example, he is excellent on the trail...steps over logs, goes through rivers, very little shying. He was lousy at picking up his feet, but now he's pretty good all the way around. He's obviously been trailered...but only goes in when I lace the lead under his chin and then he gives up almost immediately. I don't believe in using grain to catch a horse, but the one time he escaped into the yard I gave it a try...trust me, he's experienced at lipping over a feed pan to snatch a bit of grain and run. At other times, the mule acts fearful...the worming seemed one of those times. I truly couldn't tell if he was scared or surly. Is there a handy way to differentiate between fear aggression (one being pushed too soon and/or too quickly) and anger aggression?

Truth be told, I'm not thrilled I've landed yet another problem equine but neither do I want to give in. He's what I'm looking for in most every way once I get the message across who's in charge. The aggression article implied getting through this could be very rewarding and I'd sure like to give it my best shot. I also want to everything I can to keep from getting hurt.
Member:
kathleen

Posted on Monday, May 27, 2013 - 12:55 pm:

I can't really help you with training issues with mules except to say that it is my understanding that a lot of techniques used with horses don't work with mules. You might research Meredith Hodges. She had a program on RFD-TV and I remember hearing her mention the differences in training between horses and mules. That may be where you are running into trouble with your mule.
Member:
heidim

Posted on Monday, May 27, 2013 - 5:29 pm:

There are more similarities between horses and mules than dissimilarities. I've owned both, so I can pretty much tell if an idea has merit or not. I have a book by MH, and it's pretty much John Lyons' training techniques. Thanks all the same for the thought. I'd still like to hear ideas from both horse and mule people.
Member:
heidim

Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2013 - 8:23 am:

Feel funny posting on my own discussion again, but I contacted a mule guy I know and he believes the mule was ridden hard before I bought him and so is only now showing his true self. He believes the bucking incident won't necessarily repeat itself as long as the saddle setup is fixed. Sounds like I did okay on most fronts, and he offered a few extra tips for the future. Go ahead and post if you have any other ideas. I'm feeling a whole lot better about Zeke, but it never hurts to get other opinions.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2013 - 7:11 pm:

Hello Heidi,
When I read the above I see much rationalizing of your thoughts and emotions into the mule's actions. We often do not know what is really going on in their minds at it is often best just to react to the behavior: reward good behavior, ignore questionable behavior, correct overtly aggressive behavior. A big trail ride might result in a equine without a lot of recent exposure to such conditions acting up.

The worming problem seems separate to me. For this and other specific training goals consider the points in HorseAdvice.com » Training & Conditioning Horses » Behavioral Problems » Behavior Modification, Conditioning, Desensitization, and Counterconditioning.
DrO
Member:
heidim

Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2013 - 8:21 pm:

Great article, Dr. O. I will try breaking down the worming into steps next time I worm. Good to point out not everything is interconnected...seems working on the behavioral "symptoms" is a better bet.

Heidi
Member:
lrhughes

Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2013 - 10:19 pm:

Though I'm not very experienced handling mules, we had two pack mules for many years and I did ride one occasionally in the first years we had her. The bigger (giant) of the two (male) had a sweet disposition and never minded shots or worming in spite of only being used about three times a year. The little mule, a Jenny, was fine to be around unless she wanted something (she'd become pushy & respond to a sharp swat ) or thought she'd get a shot. It was dangerous for years watching others try both of those. Eventually I was the person treating her and after trying snubbing her to a solid oak tree (it worked if one was quick), I found the easy way. I'd give her some sweet feed by hand as I gave the apple flavored wormer...she ate it right up...and the same for shots. My husband would have a bucket of feed and I'd give her a shot (in the neck). She'd flinch a bit, but keep on eating. The sweet feed wasn't something they got often and she loved it. She died at 31+ Years of age. Her companion died at 30. Both were in apparent good health except for age.
Member:
heidim

Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - 7:23 am:

That's a great story, LHR. The article Dr. O recommends uses a similar approach. Due to the bucking incident, I was concerned my mule had "won" and so was upping the ante as equines often do when testing a newer owner. It's more likely the worming incident is isolated, though, and desensitization will help next time. I'm feeling a lot more hopeful about Zeke. Thanks for helping that feeling along.
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