|
|
Discussion on Biting
|
| Author |
Message |
Member:
Sylvy
|
Posted on Thursday, Jul 14, 2005 - 10:35 pm:
I purchased two registered fillies from an auction and they are now three and four. I just sent the four year old to be broke. I have two older mares and a pony mare as well. I was feeding pellets and went to put the pony in a paddock ahead of this youngster when she came up behind me and bit my arm. It hurt!! When I came out of shock, I hit her with the bucket. I need advice as to how to handle her now. Is this a pecking order thing, a mare hormonal thing or what? This was very unlike her. I had people interested in her as a companion horse, but now I'm having second thoughts. ( she has a crooked leg) She had her hooves trimmed to short about two weeks ago, so I could understand her being grouchy then but after all this time I don't think it was due to that. Any advice?
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Friday, Jul 15, 2005 - 6:50 am:
Sylvia, I am trying to understand this a bit better, your back was turned to the mare you were getting? Were you handling or feeding another horse? What had been in the bucket? I have seen horses bite not out of aggression so much as what may better be termed impatience or frustration.
I think your response, if done within seconds of the event, was appropriate.
DrO
|
Member:
Canter
|
Posted on Friday, Jul 15, 2005 - 8:37 am:
Sylvia,
I wouldn't worry too much about what appears to be a one time incident. If the mare continues to show aggression, then you may have a problem that needs to be dealt with via some training "reminders". But I'd bet she got the message when you bonked her with the bucket.
This winter, my mare bit me hard out of what I think was frustration or irritation at me. I too was shocked, and as soon as I snapped out of it, I made sure she knew it was unacceptable--and then moved on as I would normally do. She has not bitten me again nor has she shown any sign of aggression towards me or anyone else.
I think our horses have "bad moments" as we do. As long as she doesn't have a pattern of bad behavior, she's not likely to do it again
|
Member:
Rhondal
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 - 2:14 pm:
I was wondering what to do if your horse gets in between two other horses (all are stalled)and they start biting each other and in turn bite you because you just happen to be there.
|
New Member:
Lorid
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 - 4:20 pm:
This may sound funny, but I have heard conflicting things on how to handle a horse that bites. One person says to NEVER hit a horse and another says that you must do it appropriately. What exactly is the appropriate way to handle such a biting incident?
|
Member:
Vickiann
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 - 6:29 pm:
You do it in a manner in which they think the retaliation came out of nowhere -- suddenly, IMMEDIATELY and unexpectedly-- because they invaded your space. The point is to make them respect your space unless invited into it. I've seen it demonstrated, and the person's fist kind of came up and whacked the horse under the chin in a manner that almost made the fist and arm appear unconnected to the person's body. There was no yelling or ugliness on the human's part. Then there is another train of thought that for 3 seconds only you retaliate very hard; enough to frighten the horse and make him think you might kill him. Then there are horses who want to do a tiny nip (usually younger horses) and grab just a bit of skin in the process. This is a playful bite. I think it was from John Lyons I learned that the response for this is to spend more time rubbing on the horses face -- rub and rub and rub until they have had enough. Sometimes this stops the behaviour because they didn't really want that much attention on their face, or in other instances it satisfies what they wanted -- ATTENTION to their face. I have a horse like this and nipping was all a game for him. If you rub and love on his face, he won't bite and is satisfied. If you try to hit him after a nip, he will make a game of it. I've also got a horse that was handled in a rather rough "cowboy" way. With him I tried the "I'm gonna kill you" retaliation. He had an aggressive streak because of mishandling, but he has responded to kindness, is a sweet horse, and respects me as an alpha mare. I won't let anyone else groom him unless he is tied, however, because if something doesn't feel good he might start to threaten, and if that is allowed and ignored the day WILL come when a bad bite is given. I can make him back up by just shaking my finger at him but, I stay alert when my back is turned and put a halt to any threatening body language on his part in case that old, "mean streak" resurfaces. When a horse is not respecting a person's space, Parelli uses a small, thin bit of rope and spins it at the horses face, allowing it to hit the horse gently, but increasingly harder if the horse does not back away and respect the gentler tap. There is no show of anger -- just an insistence about whose space is whose. Hope some of this helps . . .
|
Member:
Anta
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 - 6:38 pm:
Sorry Rhonda, I answered to Sylvias first post,I must add that my old grandpa said, That when you ask a horse to do anything, think of a scale of 1-10, ask nicely first and if they dont respond turn up the volume, ie, I advocated slapping coat and sending them out of your space. I am sure you get the picture, not all guns blazing at first, especially if they really dont know whats going on. If they are older and do know, you are quite entitled to ask a little louder, remember its not a lot to ask for that they dont maul or walk all over you.
Anita
|
Member:
Jojo15
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 - 6:52 pm:
agression is aggression. and they should stop and respect your space. what if they are out in pasture you don't have the luxury of a wall between you. running you over to get to the other horse will kill you, therefore i would do whatever necessary in that circumstance to STOP the fighting... They should have their focus on you. at all times. If not they aren't respecting you. Same would be said what if they are fighting thru the stall wall and you walk in..
|
New Member:
Lorid
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 19, 2006 - 7:45 pm:
Thanks Vickie for your detailed answer. It is very helpful and I will remember that.
|
Member:
Rhondal
|
Posted on Monday, Feb 20, 2006 - 9:33 am:
I would have posted mine separate but I'm still trying to figure out the whole process of this forum.
As far as reprimanding the horses for biting I guess I'm still a little confused I did smack him in the mouth once for it mainly just reflex and he was mad at me for about 4 days. Is it better to smack them in the neck or like was said underneath the jaw.
And as for the horses they are all stalled separat but they can reach each other when there heads are in the isle it's just sometimes we are in the isle also. I know he's not directing it towards us but it could be a very dangerous situation if it got out of hand.
Sometimes I think he would be better by himself and that's what will be happening if I can get everything done on my own property when spring comes.
I have another question when it is feeding time he gets a little testy when it comes to getting to close, so what I have been doing is petting him just to let him know that I don't want his food I just want his company is this a good way or should I just leave him alone?
Thank You
|
Member:
Sunny66
|
Posted on Monday, Feb 20, 2006 - 10:51 am:
Hi Rhonda, my two cents...
I never hit my horse on his head, I do the 3 second drill and it works very well...I usually don't have to lay a hand on him. In your situation, carry a crop with the large flat end...makes more noise  ... and get him on his chest, shoulder or neck.
On the food issue... my horse was pulling that on me. I just give it to him, if he gives me attitude, I take it away...works for me every time. I get that sweet face with the ears forward and he gets it back. Holding the food/grain bucket also makes it clear that I am the one who controls it and he'd better be nice...it's also a bonding thing.
That said, I have a very good boy. I know he would never hurt me. Just some thoughts for you to consider for perhaps the future.
Lastly...work him in hand a LOT. You want to decide first off how far away you want him to be from you at all times... 1 foot, 2 feet or 3 feet. Once you've decided you must not let him within that area at ALL. You cannot change your mind about how far he must stay away or he will get confused. Use a crop, your voice, etc. Others can help with the how to do this.
|
Member:
Hwood
|
Posted on Monday, Feb 20, 2006 - 11:17 am:
Rhonda, by petting and reassuring him when he comes into your space when he's getting pushy and "ugly" about his food, you are actually rewarding him for being rude . . . and I think he will become more and more rude.
As Aileen has said, your horse needs to respect your space, and before you even enter the stall he should go stand by his bucket and wait for you. You can get him to do this by using some sharp ugly sounds whenever you have a feed bucket and he approaches you. Ask him to move over and stand, and don't reward him with feed in the bucket until he is in the correct position. This is a safety issue. Just don't reward him with pats and coos and feed if he enters your space with a pushy attitude.
Now . . . if you are ASKING the horse to approach you for haltering or grooming or for giving a treat, that is an entirely different thing.
As to the biting, I like Anita's response because it means that the handler is very cued in to the horse's intent. On the other hand, the horse HAS to recognize when people are around and needs to respect people when they are in his space. If you entered his space while he was playing with another horse, and if you didn't get his attention before you entered his space, then I think it is your fault for interrupting the horses' game . . . and it's like running onto an ice rink during a hockey game without calling "TIME!" You were bound to get slammed. Not a good thing, and not really the horse's fault. If the horse KNEW you were there and decided to include you in the biting game, then he deserves discipline, and any kind of ugly sound and physical discipline you give is warranted. (My understanding of John Lyons's instruction on biting: Horses are never allowed to open their lips at humans . . . For 3 seconds make the horse think he is going to die . . . use yelling and hitting, and hit anywhere on the horse's body, but you aren't allowed to use anything sharp . . . The rubbing the face activity is used when the horse is being pesty with his nose coming into your space and is nudging; looking for attention at inappropriate times . . . not for biting.)
|
Member:
Canter
|
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 - 10:40 am:
Holly, you are correct: I think John Lyons calls it the "3 second kill". You can hit the horse anywhere except the head and again, nothing sharp. Then you act as if nothing has ever happened when it's over.
I like the bonk under the chin with your fist as a punishment. As soon as the bite or nip, come up under his chin with your fist, doesn't need to be hard. The horse can't see your hand so doesn't associate it with you and as soon as you bonk him, then act surprised yourself and comfort the horse. I've had to use this once on each of the two horses I've owned and never needed to repeat it. (I think I learned this from Richard Shrake)
|
Member:
Rhondal
|
Posted on Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 - 10:37 am:
Well I've been slapping Valentine on the neck and telling him STOP!! every time he tries to bite the other horse when I'm close to him, it was kinda funny because he would keep doing it over and over and then I would slap him over and over for the first 15 min and then he would just rest his mouth on the other horses neck like see I can be nice lol he seems to be curbing it so I just have to keep after him till he quits all together when we are close to them.
I see allot of intelligence in him and that's one of the big reasons for buying him he's such a sweet boy. I just think he needs to relearn some manners. I can't wait till spring when we can really get things rolling.
|
Member:
Alden
|
Posted on Friday, Feb 24, 2006 - 11:52 pm:
Sorry Rhonda, but if you let him crowd you at feeding time you're in for big problems. I'd get between him and the food and keep him away until I see a softening of his attitude, then immediately turn and leave. You don't have to drive a horse away from his food too many times and he'll wait patiently and approach when you're done.
If he showed any tendency to get physical then carry a big stick, and use it. I love to be around my horses at feeding time, but I can't stand one that's pushy; it just take the pleasure out of feeding time.
Good day,
Alden
|
New Member:
bgsu
|
Posted on Saturday, May 5, 2007 - 6:16 pm:
________________________________________
Hi, I am new to this forum, this is my first post,really hoping someone can give me some advise.
I live in Bulgaria, , and have been here fourteen months.
I could be so happy, surrounded by my Mare two week foal, five dogs and my pregnant cat, BUT my mare wont let me near her or foal since day one
She has attacked me twice, including my chest which is still black and extremely sore
I feel very alone with this situation, I am the only speaking english here in the village, this is not why I feel alone, as I have learnt quickly to speak Bgn.
But here the animals are not seen in the same light as us, they are simply beasts of burden.and no-one understands my perseverence
My mare I fell in love with from the first time I saw her, grazing at the roadside, She is chestnut, nine years, with remarkably strong Arab features.
She was not originally for sale, she was used to drive carts as all horses and donkeys do here, a step back in time.
The small closed in pen, with no light and maybe two years crap on ground was enough to make you want to heave
Anyway, cut a long story short, had her seen by vet, apart from severe thrush and slight cataracts forming, which he said was a long time away, not affecting her now, I brought her home where I had prepared a stable with lots ventilation, which steps out onto a sand area. She now has a field with direct access from her sand pen, spoilt indeed
We bonded well her feet are barefoot and clean, and up till Jan when I stopped she was very good to ride, we used to do an hour and half each day, nothing strenious tho.
I have lost a lot of confidence, can not even put a halter on for fear she will attack again.
The people in this village just say, shes nasty evil and I am a fool, that I should sell her and baby, they only advice, well, let me hit her with a stick and you wont get any more problems
I think I have just about summed up the situation, has any one else been in my shoes?
Really need some good advice here, as time goes on my little colt is begining to think I am rejecting him as I cant get near cos of mum,
Thanks for reading all this please help if you can,
________________________________________
Forgot to say, she was with a very old couple for eight of her nine years.
She has thrown two colts b4, last was two years ago.
I and my vet seriously think she went straight to driving leaving the foal alone and just popping back to nurse occassionaly, therefore this could explain why she is so screwed up now, but how can I make her trust me with this foal.
Think I will get some blood work done also for hormones check no ovarion cysts.
look fwd to any advise,
Susana.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Saturday, May 5, 2007 - 10:24 pm:
Hi Susana. Getting her hormone levels checked, imo, is a good idea. However, quite a few mares are really over protective of their foals, especially if they haven't been in a good situation and don't totally trust humans.
You have to go very slowly and be very careful you don't get hurt. Does she charge at you? Or does she only act aggressive when you get near her and the foal?
|
Member:
imogen
|
Posted on Sunday, May 6, 2007 - 6:25 am:
How old is the foal? Most mares are very protective for the first week or so and however kind temperedthe mare was in the past, extreme care should be taken entering a confined space with a mare and very young offspring.
Did you accidentally get between the mare and foal? That is a big no-no...
All the best
Imogen
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Sunday, May 6, 2007 - 8:41 am:
Hello bgsu,
Have you had an opportunity to read the article associated with this forum? It discusses in detail principles of dealing with aggression in horses. To get to it click on "Aggression in Horses". Once reading it if you will post your problem in a new post with any further questions we will try and help as best we can.
DrO
|
New Member:
bgsu
|
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 1:58 am:
Hi everyone and many thanks for your advice re my mare.
Happy to say she has settled down a lot, and now when I am cleaning the field she comes over and brings babe too! ears foward all the way, And they follow me around I have never enjoyed poop picking as much as now lol.
Still going to be a very long road, think that she may let me groom her and stroke her a bit more in the next week or so.
She now wanders off and doesn’t mind when Spice comes over to me, and yes I spend all my free time, just pottering about near them dishing out carrots and chatting away to her, so she knows there isn’t any threat.I must say the Bulgarians are amazed at her trust as many know she had a dreadfull nine years.
Must rush now but will put some pics up later,
Once again many thanks
Susana
|
Member:
muffi
|
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 10:58 pm:
Susana - Definiatly want Pictures! yes please. Sounds like your have your horse. or should I say sounds like your horse has you....
|
|
|
