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  Discussion on Cribbing
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Member:
Sr26953

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 20, 2005 - 8:01 pm:

HELP, My new horse is starting to crib. I just brought him home two weeks ago. I know he didn't crib before. He is an off the track TB, but has not raced since 2003. I've only seen him myself a few times, he is mouthing the top rail of his pipe corral and sliding his teeth along it. However, today I found a series of bite marks all along the top rail of the gate and also on the back rail. When I am around he is usually just paying attention to me or I have him out.

Is there a way I can nip this in the bud? Do you think turning him out into the pasture will help or should I put a collar on him right away. Do you think that Quit supplement would help at this stage? I looker for months for this horse and had a couple of rejects and one that didn't make it through the vet check. There are no others cribbers at our barn. This is so disappointing. He is only 5. I don't want to put up with this for the rest of his life. Any help anyone can offer will be greatly appreciated.

Suzanne
Member:
Brandi

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 20, 2005 - 10:15 pm:

Suzanne, absolutely...as much turnout as possible will help, as will a continuous supply of hay (if he's overweight use lower-quality), but are you sure he's actually cribbing? I have 2 horses that slide their teeth along the metal top rail (one even will do it on a flat wood or metal wall), but neither of them cribs. It's just an impatient behavior done at feeding time or out of boredom. I acquired a confirmed cribber 5 months ago who still invests hours in the behavior regardless of 24-hour turnout on great irrigated pasture and 5x/week riding schedule. I choose not to use a collar because at this point (she's 11 and began doing it at 3 when laid up for 1 year due to an injury), I feel it would be inhumane. If yours is truly cribbing, obviously you want to do anything you can, management-wise, to reduce his desire to start/continue this behavior, and in your shoes, if I had one who was just beginning, I would consider using a collar, if the management alone did not work, in hopes that it would interrupt the formation of the habit and he could at some point, lose the desire to do it, if that is possible.
Even if it's just sliding the teeth, wood chewing or cribbing, 24-hour turn-out, plenty of roughage and lots of exercise are the keys to reducing or eliminating the behavior. Good luck.
Member:
Sr26953

Posted on Thursday, Jul 21, 2005 - 12:20 am:

Thanks, I am going to turn him out tomorrow. I gave him extra hay before I left tonight. My filly who is in the pasture now is good in the corral. Unfortunately, he had thrown a shoe when I picked him up. I had to keep him pretty quiet for a week until I could get the shoer out and then she ended up hot nailing him. She pulled it right out but he is still sore on that foot so I can't work him much.

I'll put him out and work the filly and we should be OK. I hope this goes away quickly, because he really is a pretty laid back horse. I think its just a transition thing, but I want to get it managed and under control.

Thanks again,

Suzanne
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Jul 21, 2005 - 6:39 am:

Hello Suzanne,
See the article Training Horses » Behavioral Problems » Stable Vices: Cribbing, Weaving, and Others for more. I don't think Quit is likely to help if this is really cribbing but agree with Brandi, this may just be in the range of normal.
DrO
Member:
Sureed

Posted on Sunday, Feb 26, 2006 - 9:14 pm:

Well, it is now almost March, 2006. I moved Alex to a training barn last August where he can be worked or turned out daily. The trainer doesn't particularly advocate collars so I never put one on him. I got him a jolly ball with a lickit treat attachment to help keep him busy and he is fed three times a day. He still rubs his teeth along the top of his window sill (he is in a metal stall) and he will suck wind while doing it sometimes, but it is not constant. So I am living with it. Something tells me that putting the collar on him may stress him more. He's a pretty sensitive OTTTB. He seems to do it when he thinks something is expected of him. We've been working through a Winter of whirling and bucking, but he has improved and now that we are having some warmer weather, he is settling down somewhat. I have asked my trainer to add a supplement that addresses ulcers to his Smart Pak and so we will see if that helps him more. I'm taking him to a bombproof clinic the first week in April. So I'm hoping as he becomes more confident and more relaxed some of these behaviors will disappear.

Thanks,

Suzanne
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Feb 27, 2006 - 7:19 am:

Thanks Suzanne,
Have you seen the post about using non-glass mirrors in stalls? Concerning antiulcer meds what in particular will you be using?
DrO
Member:
Sureed

Posted on Monday, Feb 27, 2006 - 7:56 pm:

Thanks DrO,

He might like mirrors. Anything to keep him occupied. I'll check it out.

I am adding Neigh-Lox to his Smart-Pak to see if it helps his crankiness. In his worst period he would buck or kick out when leg or especially spur were applied. I also found him a little tacky to touch (not profusely sweating) with obvious signs of having gotten up and down regularly a couple of times over the last three months when I arrived to tack him up for my lesson. This never developed into full blown colic. He is also a little girthy although this is also getting better.

He is a Storm Cat grandson and Storm Cat has a reputation of being somewhat difficult, so some of this might just be personality. And like I said, he is much much better lately. I think he had kicked around from trainer to trainer for a while before I bought him and that consistency with one owner and one trainer and a steady routine is helping him settle.

I just decided to try the Neigh-Lox for a few months to see if it helped rather than get a scope and diagnosis, on the "it can't hurt" theory.

There is a picture of Alex on my profile. All advice is appreciated.

Suzanne
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 - 8:31 am:

The problem is Neigh-Lox does not help and in fact with rebound acidity may be worse. The problem with stomach acidity in horses is entirely different than with humans. For more helpful suggestions see our article Equine Diseases » Colic and GI Diseases » Gastric Ulcers.
DrO
Member:
Sureed

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 - 3:13 pm:

Thanks DrO. I should have checked with you first. I'll read the article and then confer with my trainer.

Suzanne
Member:
Sureed

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 28, 2006 - 4:42 pm:

So, DrO, I've read these articles and it appears that GastroGurad is the only thing the research says works on ulcers. Of course, that is quite expensive to use on a horse when you are not even sure he has ulcers, and frankly, his symptoms are not screaming "ulcers". If I was going to go that route then I would want it to be based on a vet exam and without anything but a hunch, knowing this horse was a race horse (though with a very short career), and some cranky behavior, I'm not sure it makes sense to put him through it. There are several other horses in the barn that I would say are better candidates for an exam than Alex.

Isn't there a middle ground of "bad stomach" or "digestive upset" short of ulcers and colic, and a supplement that can keep the stomach acids balanced?

The range of supplements offered by SmartPak include Gastro Care, G.U.T., Neigh Lox, Pro CMC, Succeed, U-Gard 2X, U-7, and Ulcer Guard.

I am referring to SmartPak because he is already on it and the horse is in training, so having anything administered other than that, such as via syringe, would be another extra charge.

SmartPak also carries Pro-biotics, but that is another one I understand to be controversial. My old vet who teaches at UC Davis, says there is no evidence they do any good whatsoever because they never reach where they need to be in the digestive system to have a positive effect. What do you think?

Alex is not on grain. He is fed Alfalfa hay twice a day and pellets at mid-day. He is a good keeper and has gained at least 150 pounds since coming to the barn.

Besides the behaviors I have described before, the only other thing I notice is that his stools do not seem really moist, they are sort of on the dry side and crumble fairly easily.

Once again, any advice is welcome. I've already emailed my trainer not to put him on Neigh-Lox.

Thanks,

Suzanne
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 1, 2006 - 6:41 am:

Hello Suzanne,
Cribbing can be a difficult to understand behavior that best responds to the recommendations we make in the article on cribbing.

If you still think this may be do to ulcers, I have used the ranitidine for 5 days to see if the horse's abnormal findings would improve. Though it does not heal up ulcers as well as the Gastrogard it will relieve symptoms when given at adequate dosages and frequency. Dosages are in the article. The veterinarian can usually order this fairly cheaply.
DrO
Member:
Sureed

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 1, 2006 - 2:15 pm:

Great DrO.

At least that gives me something to go on that won't cost a fortune. My trainer had not ordered the Neigh-Lox yet, so we are all square on that.

Thanks,

Suzanne
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