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Discussion on Training horses to drive
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Member:
9193
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 11, 2005 - 1:30 am:
Hi All,
What is involved to teach a horse to drive?
How do you find someone qualified to teach/train horse and driver?
What characteristics/temperament should a horse posess for consideration of driving?
Would pulling a cart put more or less strain on hocks than trail riding or pleasure riding?
Can older horses (15 years or older) be trained to drive as an alternative to riding?
Thanks for your time,
Debra
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 11, 2005 - 11:33 am:
IMO it's a lot less work and less stressful on joints for the horse to drive than it is to be ridden. A lot of old-timers in New England and the South taught horses to drive even as yearlings.
For pleasure driving (not high stepping show driving) a calm, sensible disposition is a real plus.
When I've taught a horse to drive, I've started with a lot of ground work using double reins and working up to ground driving the horse while walking behind it. Then, using a surcingle and two soft cotton lines, I've used a little rig made from PVC piping to fit through the surcingle - a little drag with shafts so the horse gets used to the shafts and all. Then, I use a log for the horse to pull with the little drag rig so it gets used to pulling weight. I wait until the horse is used to all this before ever hitching it up to a jog cart. I also walk the horse around the neighborhood when ground driving to get it used all the noise, etc. before it's hooked up to the cart.
There are some excellent books on teaching a horse to drive.
Also, as a precaution, I always wrap the horses legs in polo wraps to protect them when the inevitable kicking starts.
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 11, 2005 - 12:16 pm:
I will agree with Sara on less stressful to the joints IF being driven on softer ground.... I know out here in Calif.. the only place to drive is on hard ground... and with a nice clip to the trot I would think that would cause some pretty good impact on the joints...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS..
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 11, 2005 - 2:27 pm:
If I'm going to be driving a horse on hard ground or pavement, I have rubber rim pads put on the horse under the shoes to help absorb shock.
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 11, 2005 - 3:01 pm:
Debra,
I have only driven a few times, and I once lived at a farm at which the owner is an experienced driver. I know I am not the best person to answer this question, but I will give you the information I know.
Number one . . . teach the horse how to give to the bit . . . 100 percent of the time. If you have an experienced horse who all ready understands giving to the bit, then put him in longlines and go for some walks around your property and down the road. (Lots of good books on this.)
If your horse knows how to give to pressure on his body, then you will have to retrain him to PUSH into pressure on his chest, something a horse all ready knows how to do, but we train him out of it when we teach him to move away from us on the ground.
Always have at least one other person with you (three is better) when you first hook up your horse to a cart, and I would drive in an arena first if I have one, but when that time comes, if you have done your research and proper training, it should be a breeze.
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Member:
9193
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Posted on Friday, Aug 12, 2005 - 12:55 pm:
Thank you to all three of you for your helpful suggestions and insightful ideas.
Do you have the titles of two or three particular books that you would recommend? Also would there be a driving magazine that might offer the dates of any seminars or trainers that I might contact here in the Bay Area?
Sara, I would love to see a picture of your PVC rig! Did you create that yourself?
Holly, I found your tidbits very interesting, especially about the part where horses are taught to move away from us, but they need to push with their chest when driving. Not ever thought of those angles before...
To explain my interest... I am trying to think of different low impact exercise that I can do with our horse Justin (he'll be 16 in October and is rehabbing with tendon/ligament injury in his front legs) that would keep him moving, keep his brain engaged and be something fun for the two of us to learn together. The two ideas I came up with were trail obstacle course events and driving. He was doing Training level dressage, but I don't see him being ridden as intensely in dressage as he has been the last two years..
We have a trail obstacle course at our barn that I can practice in and there is a trainer I can work with, but the driving was something that really intrigued me since years ago I had a Shetland/Welch pony cross that my sisters and I DrOve when he got too old to ride anymore. That was 35 plus years ago.
I want to do a LOT of research regarding the feasability of driving as I have no desire to recreate an equine version of Toad's Wild Ride any too soon!!
Another question just popped into my head..Would ground driving a horse have any benefits in regards to the type of riding I want to do with him? ie. giving to the bit, keeping in frame, focus ect?
Many thanks!
Debra
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Friday, Aug 12, 2005 - 3:52 pm:
Debra, if you look on Amazon.com for the author, Marilyn Childs, a neighbor from Chelsea, Vermont, you should find one or two books on driving. If you are looking for some good exercise for yourself and for your horse, you can do long walks while ground driving. That will help you get a feel for what the horse will do with a spook or whether he will slow down from a trot on a light rein, or whether he will back up straight when you rein back. Mostly, you want a calm, unruffled horse who is very sensitive to verbal and light rein cues. It makes driving much less nerve-wracking. Nothing scarier than driving a runaway horse. I'd MUCH rather be on the back of an unruly horse than under him or behind him. When driving, you can't put a runaway on a small circle because you'll tip the cart, so the only thing you can do is steer him and let him tire out and then ask for "WHOA" when you can FEEL him starting to slow.
A friend of mine, an old trainer of driving horses in Calais, Vermont, told me that when he started his horses with a cart, he always used a heavy hay wagon with rubber tires, and always DrOve in a BIG level field. That way, if the horses got running, he could steer them around the field on wide curves and wait until they tired out. If your horse is trained to listen and respond to your verbal cues and light pressure of the bit, you will have 95% of the training under your belt.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Friday, Aug 12, 2005 - 8:59 pm:
Holly is right on re: the ground driving. And, imo it is benificial regardless of the discipline you eventually go into. I sometimes ground drive even tho' the horse is well trained. It is a good way to "get back to basics" and to teach new things, get used to new equipment, etc.
I no longer have my PVC rig; I pulled it apart and used the pipe for ground poles. But you just get 4our 2" pieces of PVC about 5' long, and another about 3' long, plus four connecting pieces. I started with two pieces joined on each side, with the cross piece holding them together behind the horse and quite a ways from it's rump. The front ends of the pipe stick through the loops on the surcingle. This is to get the horse used to the feel of shafts next to him. Once he doesn't mind that, you can shorten the PVC shafts by removing one length of pipe on each side, and get him used to having the cross piece (Holly, what's that piece called? It's usually two pieces with the top one swinging loose?) Do lots of ground work getting the horse used to all this, then add a drag with some weight so he gets used to pulling a weight. This is where the training Holly was talking about comes in. Getting him to pull against the weight. You do all this before you hook up a jog cart.
You can get a little jog car new for about $800 or so. Maybe even less. Be sure and get one that doesn't have enclosed sides so you can make a quick escape if need be.
When first driving with the cart, I had my husband ride with us on his bicycle so he could rescue me if need be. (He also did this the first few times I took a young horse out on the trail. Our horses think bikes are just weird looking horses. They even whinny when he gets out of sight.)
Holly is wrong about not being able to go in tight circles with a cart. I'm here to tell you that you can, at least with a jog cart. We were at a show once where there were lions (I kid you not!) in cages that you had to pass by on the way to the arena (there was a circus in town and some idiot had let them keep the lions, tigers and elephants at the show grounds!) A lion roared just as I was about the enter the arena. The only thing I could do to keep my horse from running totally out of control was to pull her around in a small circle. We were flying. I was literally flying! I know the cart didn't touch the ground for at least 3 or 4 circles! I finally got into the arena and my husband says I ribboned only because my horse didn't kill the judge entering the arena! Good luck with your driving!
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Member:
9193
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Posted on Friday, Aug 12, 2005 - 11:20 pm:
Oh my gosh Sara!! Talk about making an entrance!! I am so glad you are OK so that you can share a laugh!! If I ever get as far as hooking on to a jog cart I will definitely check for the location of the nearest circus!!
I just ordered a couple of books from Amazon. (Thank you Holly) One authored by Marilyn Childs on Driving and another one on ground working your horse. I have no idea how many miles I walked beside our horse in eleven weeks of 40 minutes a day of ground walking (we called it power walking! head up and stepping out lively, no dragging)..I figure I have quite a few more miles in me watching his tail!
Justin did four minutes of trotting today and he was so light, springy and energetic! My daughter was so excited I had tears in my eyes..
Thank you both for sharing your amazing knowlege.. I learn so much from this site.
Smiles,
Debra
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Friday, Aug 12, 2005 - 11:46 pm:
YIKES!!!, Sara! . . .
I know there are carts that "bend" (the front wheels turn with the shafts . . . sorry, don't know all the correct terms) and are used for combined driving events. Those can be turned in a very tight area and remain stable. I have flipped a cart before with a runaway pony. Flying in a cart would have been much more fun  . As far as the name of the part . . . maybe you are thinking of the whiffletree? I don't know.
I DO know that it is critical to have the harness fitting correctly and the britching snug so that the cart won't hit the horse when going down hill, but by the time you are ready to hitch up your horse for the first real drive, you should have someone more experienced with you to make sure everything is fitting, tightened, wrapped and buckled correctly.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 13, 2005 - 12:34 am:
Yes, Holly. It's really important that everything fit correctly. If too loose, a horse can get a leg caught, or if the shafts are too long they can catch in parts of the harness, or poke the horse in the sides; the cart can hit the horse in the rear...you get the idea. But, having things too tight is no good either and can cause chaffing, sores, etc. Then there's the question of whether to use blinders or not, a check rein and how tight to adjust if you use one (I use both blinders and check rein, but depends on the horse)
The books you mentioned should help, and by all means, try and find someone experienced to give some pointers. Even with a book to guide you, all that harness is confusing to hook up.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 13, 2005 - 12:38 am:
Oh, I forgot, with the PVC pipe rig, use that plumbers glue in the can (I forget correct name for it, but it's made for PVC) to hold the pieces together.
And, I think you're right, Holly, it's a wiffletree, I think. I need to get one of my books out!
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Member:
9193
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 13, 2005 - 1:26 pm:
I will take my time researching, learning all I can and taking my time with Justin to carefully evaluate his suitability to my idea here. I definitely want to find someone with experience to guide me thru this idea.. I know of a woman in the Sierra foothills that teaches driving not far from where my dad lives, so I will ask her for any references here in the Bay Area. I very much appreciate your cautions about not jumping into this too fast!
I figure it will be a good winter project with the ground work and introducing the PVC rig (if I get that far.) Sara.. How did you fasten the shafts to the surcingle rings? How heavy was the item you used as a drag? Did you just use ropes to tie to the PVC rig? And lastly, can I do all this with the bridle I use now for riding or should I get a different bridle/bit combo for the groundwork/driving training? Right now I am using a dressage bridle with a flash and a Balkenhol bit.
No matter how far I get with this, I have been learning lots and am eager to learn more. Thanks to both of you for your time...
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Member:
9193
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 13, 2005 - 1:30 pm:
I will take my time researching, learning all I can and taking my time with Justin to carefully evaluate his suitability to my idea here. I definitely want to find someone with experience to guide me thru this idea.. I know of a woman in the Sierra foothills that teaches driving not far from where my dad lives, so I will ask her for any references here in the Bay Area. I very much appreciate your cautions about not jumping into this too fast!
I figure it will be a good winter project with the ground work and introducing the PVC rig (if I get that far.) Sara.. How did you fasten the shafts to the surcingle rings? How heavy was the item you used as a drag? Did you just use ropes to tie to the PVC rig? And lastly, can I do all this with the bridle I use now for riding or should I get a different bridle/bit combo for the groundwork/driving training? Right now I am using a dressage bridle with a flash and a Balkenhol bit.
No matter how far I get with this, I have been learning lots and am eager to learn more. Thanks to both of you for your time...
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 13, 2005 - 1:41 pm:
Debra,
I'm not familiar with a Balkenhol bit . . . is it a snaffle? Are you asking about just ground driving? As long as it's a snaffle, I don't see a problem, but when you get to actually driving the horse with a cart/carriage, I would use a driving bit or a ring snaffle . . . and you will have a driving harness with a bridle that may have blinders on it, and a place to attach the check rein if you think you'll need it. If your horse tends to DrOp his head to the ground and go for grass while you are ground driving, you ma want to rig a check rein to the surcingle as it can be difficult to give a "keep your head up" cue when you are walking more than 10 feet behind your horse and the reins are in the rings of the surcingle . . . but it depends on the sensitivity of your horse to give to bit pressure.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 13, 2005 - 1:51 pm:
I would work in a snaffle bit and simple bridle, at least at first for the ground driving. But, you may want blinders/half blinders, in which case you will need a driving bridle. I use a full harness, which comes with a driving bridle complete with check rein option. Once your horse gets used to the idea, you will probably switch to a driving bit. I use one that looks like a broken snaffle that has a little bit of a shank on the bottom.
The surcingle on a driving harness has loops for the shafts to fit through, and leather wraps you kind of figure-eight around the shaft ends to hold them in place. I used an old tire tied to the PVC rig, and then used a heavier log. You don't need anything too heavy, just something to pull against and get used to the feel of something dragging behind them. Then hook up the cart, but ground drive next to the horse (stay up close to his shoulder) while he gets used to the cart. You should have a helper when you first start driving the cart. It will squeak and rattle and sound very scary at first.
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Member:
9193
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 13, 2005 - 11:49 pm:
The Balkenhol bit is a loose ring snaffle with a curved mouthpiece that our trainer recommended a couple of years ago..
Thanks for the clarification regarding the difference between a riding bridle and a driving bridle. I am looking forward to reading those books!
It sounds like there are differences in surcingles too. Can I use my lunging surcingle for the ground driving work? Am I understanding correctly you then use a driving surcingle for the PVC rig and pulling part?
Is there a difference between the terms "ground training" and "ground driving"?
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New Member:
Sean
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 - 8:44 am:
Hi All
Just a small questions, I have both a riding horse and a trotting horse but have not crossed the abilities on either of them. My girlfriends pony is very out of shape, been grazing for too long. she only rides him once a week but will begin to ride him 3-4 times a week in the summer. I was thinking of driving him to get him fit & keep the excess weight off that he tents to gain in the summer months. Is this a good idea as he's a riding pony of about 12 years.
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Member:
Sean
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 - 8:55 am:
Hi all,
This site is great, i'm learning so much. Thank you everyone for all the advise.
I drive my trotting horse on the road, where would i get the rubber pads mentioned above for him, would my farrier know about them ?
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 - 11:02 am:
Yes, your farrier would either have them or be able to get them.
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Member:
Sean
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006 - 11:27 am:
thank you, i'll give him a call before he comes next to ask him about them.
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