This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Training, Behavior, & Conditioning Horses » Basic Riding Skills » Help with the Canter »
  Discussion on REALLY basic--help me sit to the canter!
Author Message

Posted on Saturday, Jan 8, 2000 - 6:35 pm:

A problem that has plagued me ever since I got back into riding two years ago after a 17-year hiatus! My mare is pretty green and in training with an excellent trainer; she has very rounded gaits and whenever I canter her I bounce up and down like a rubber ball and this does her NO good--makes her speed up, I lose whatever rhythm I have, etc etc. Any hints would be much appreciated--she goes away for two months in a week or so, but I might be able to take lessons in the meanwhile...what's worked for those of you who've been there, done that....?? THANKS!

Posted on Sunday, Jan 9, 2000 - 5:08 am:

Hi Zoe,
I'm in the begining stages of working on this with my 5yr. old gelding. After a 20 some year break, got back into riding three years ago.

What I've learned is to find the best instructor you can for yourself. 90% percent of my problems have come from my own lack of knowledge and ability, so an instructor working with me and my horse together is necessary.
With this horse, we have spent the last four months teaching me and him to collect in the slower gaits. His canter has been very rough, so he needed to learn collection and use of the back end before working on the canter. I needed to learn how to sit deep,relax my thighs and stay out of his mouth. We are starting the canter with me riding him while on a lunge line. This way I can learn proper balance, my instructor can tell me what I'm doing right/wrong and the horse isn't going to run off anywhere. Also no reins, so not using them to balance myself or jerking his mouth.
When you get it right, it's awesome. But for me, takes lots and lots of practice to sit right.(my age?)If you tense up, you can't sit deep, so you bounce.
My older horse and I cantered (he is very smooth), but even with him, I used to find myself leaning forward-goes back to not sitting right. So, lessons, lessons, lessons!
I'm not in any rush, I still want to be riding this horse 10 years from now to the best of my ability!
Good luck,
Liz

Posted on Sunday, Jan 9, 2000 - 6:59 am:

I agree, find a good instructor, but more importantly, find a good instructor who can put you on a beautifully schooled horse. The easiest way to learn is to feel how it SHOULD feel on a schooled horse. If one only rides green horses, even if they are your own and are being brought on, you never really know how various movements should feel when they are correct. The difference is enormous - and then you know what you are working towards.

For me, if I am tensing at the canter and inclined to bounce, the best exercise is to canter slowly without stirrups. You then get your body and legs into the right position, with a long, low and relaxed knee, a full and open chest, relaxed buttocks and hips and a deep seat. It is actually much easier than with stirrups. Obviously, you need a safe horse, but with a good instructor and a schooled horse, it is safe.

Cheers.

Posted on Sunday, Jan 9, 2000 - 7:38 pm:

Thank you so much Liz and Alexa; your comments are very helpful. Today I nearly DrOve my mare nuts by holding her in too tightly and bending her too much to the inside while asking for the canter--she finally just lit out from under me, bucking and leaping, and I honestly couldn't blame her--so my instructor had me just do walk/trot/halt transitions for twenty minutes while she finished schooling my daughter on her schoolmaster horse (!) and then got us calmed down and into a couple of nice easy uncollected canter departs. But I still bounce like the dickens and she still just wants to gallop on the forehand most of the time. As I mentioned before, the mare and the trainer are leaving for Florida for two months this week, but I will have my daughter's horse I could school on, with a friend of my trainer's who's equally good, and he (the gelding) is a real pro--he's seventeen and has evented to Prelim level and is safe and steady, which is why I bought him for my daughter.
Still--DR. O, READ THIS!!--I don't know how much schooling on the longe a seventeen year old can take(he's in superb condition, but has some of the stiffness you'd expect from a trooper his age). Say twenty minute to half hour sessions--how many per week would be safe? I've heard it's hard on a horse's hocks to go round in circles, and I worry about his back with me bouncing on it. If I wreck my daughter's horse, believe me, I will NEVER hear the end of it. Life with teenagers is no picnic anyway.

(Liz--it sounds like we have parallel lives. Dare I ask how old you are? I bet I'm older! Hang in there, my peers are few and far between..)

Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2000 - 12:08 pm:

Hi Zoe, don't despair, lots of people suffer from exactly the same problem. Your hips and lower back have to learn to absorb the rocking motion of the horse so really, like a swan, you look as though you are doing very little whereas secretly you are working pretty hard!
I agree with everything that everone else has said so far, especially work on the lunge and/or without stirrups. The latter just encourage you to stand up and if you haven't got them you won't have to worry about losing them either!
Here's a trick I used to use with children I was teaching - stick a riding glove under your backside and aim to keep it there while you are cantering. It gives you something else to concentrate on and it really works. Another trick would be to hold onto the front of the saddle and lean back quite a bit. It may feel really weird at first but that's just your brain adjusting to be being forward of the vertical normally. Think what a tiny hole in your tooth feels like to your tongue - massive!! Its all about persistance.

Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2000 - 12:23 pm:

Liza & Zoe - Off topic, but can y'all remember when thirty was OLD and fifty was inconceivable?
This year, seventy has become MIDDLE AGED for me.
I'm also a late bloomer - involved with horses thru my "late fig" baby boy who is now eight and a much better ( and smug about it) rider than mom.Since I ride a TWH it's been pretty easy so far - yes, it doesn't just LOOK easy on them, it IS!But now I also want to canter and am rotten at it. I agree with a trainer being the answer - and we have a great one.It's funny though, the new gelding we have canters beautifully and I've ridden him in the arena at the canter without trouble.So maybe I need help with my horse, too. He gets real excited and sort of bounds like a gazelle - I'd need a parachute if I came off. Know the feeling? Practice, pracice - right?
Sharon

Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2000 - 3:07 pm:

There can be lots of reasons one might "make pancakes" with his/her bottom at the canter - slapping the saddle with your butt is quite common.

Visually, one can help by imagining the horse's neck rising up to meet the rider each stride and trying to maintain loose, unlocked hips while keeping legs long and quiet.

Sometimes specific horses are much harder to sit comfortably - either they've rather big gaits, or the are green and going a little inverted. Or they can be traveling a bit crooked, pitching the rider to one side or the other.

Other times the stirrups are not absolutely even, or too long/short, making rider balance issues.

The saddle could be uncomfortable to the rider, causing the rider to involuntarily hide seatbones and grip with thighs/legs.

Many times it is rider fitness/skill/coordination that is yet to be developed.

All this can take some time to overcome even if you have a good ground person/instructor helping you correct your position, etc.

I'd encourage lunging lessons. If the 17 year old hasn't been lunged recently, I've first work on developing his fitness on the lung for several weeks and see how he tolerates it, gradually building time, perhaps up to 30 minutes. Then I'd add a rider for a few minutes several times a week, building up to 30 minutes. Be sure to use a nice long lunge line so the circle is large and adjust the work to meet the horse's tolerance. I would use a lunging cavesson and side reins attached to the bit to encourage the horse to round, too.

Some horses haven't been taught to lunge, or don't do it well with a rider. Approach this cautiously and methodically so as not to overface the horse and cause an accident, unless you know for sure the horse is trained to lunge with a rider.

Once up on the lunging horse, work on correct position at walk, trot canter. Hold the grab strap and ride a little with your eyes shut, concentrating on the horse's movement. Correct leg position constantly. Focus on unlocking your hips. Try deeping your seat by lengthening your legs through lowering the heel (this is NOT the old "heels down" adage, but a way to find seat bones).

Just this past spring, I had my instructor lunge me on my horse for about 4 lessons. My mare is 17 this summer and she handled it fine.

But, she is taught to lunge with a rider and even then was a little fractious at the canter when lunging with a rider at the beginning.

Good luck. It will come with focus, time and practice.

Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2000 - 3:31 pm:

I agree practice, practice, practice. I also bounced at the canter and my horse was green. So he was taught to be more collected as he was off the track and had that horrible strung out canter that they all have. You also want to keep weight in your heels and not be rigid through the legs as this will make you bounce.

Yeah, I know easier said than done when it all start to fall apart.

A good instructor is a must who will work on your position incrementally will help a lot.

I also find it is easier to think of what you want to do in a positive way. Such as don't think "Don't bounce etc" but think "smooth or rhythm" or what ever you think is appropriate or works for you.

Unfortuantely, a bounce-less canter will not happen overnight but lots of practice will produce the results you want.

Good luck
Carol

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 11, 2000 - 1:26 pm:

Riding a horse that is very experienced can very much help one to feel the ride better, what it should or can feel like. It is very enjoyable to ride an extremely well trained horse. Something I am reading right now that I find very helpful is a book called "Endurance Riding and Competition". Author is Donna Snyder-Smith. This lady has an awesome ability of explaining detailed riding ability, and how to get it. Even if Endurance Riding isn't in your future...it is very valuable to any rider, whether pleasure, trail, or competition. She details how to master riding in every way, conditioning of the horse, feeding, tack and equip. Really important the mental prep of horse and rider. I just found it right up my alley in ability to understand and get what she is saying. I am a hands on learner. I have to be able to really 'picture' it or feel it. I bought this book not really knowing what it was going to be like, and I love it. You might take a look and see if it is anything that could help you.
Have Fun!
Melissa

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 12, 2000 - 10:19 am:

Hi all,

I've been there done that! I hadn't ridden in over 15 years also, but didn't remember bouncing as being a problem before!

What has helped me is improving my own flexability. Upper back as well as pelvis. Stretches for the chest muscles will relax your midback which can be transmitted to your low back. We've all been using our bodies for other things these past years and the spine and trunk flexability is not what it use to be. For anyone that is interested I can e-mail you some basic stretches (they can't hurt if done gentlly and can only help if you are truely tight) I actually needed to see a chriropractor to help regain some flexability. (Being a physical therapist-chiropractors have always been thought of as taboo, but it did wonders for me)

Just some food for thought. Having someone on the ground to give you feedback is a must but it will be frustrating if you body is fighting you every step of the way!
Kim

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 12, 2000 - 1:10 pm:

Hi Kim,
I started riding my new horse last week, after nearly 3 years of not riding after retiring my TB. The horses I’ve been involved with in the 3 years were Friesians which
- deliberately reared over backwards with me, hoof missed my face by 2 inches [Horse 1] – he was a carriage horse who hated riders, but the dealer who sold him to me forgot to mention it ;
- bucked me off whilst riding with no stirrups on a shiny new saddle, whilst the saddler was here fitting him, and kicked me in the spine as I landed, fracturing a vertebrae [the 3rd fracture!] and fracturing 6 ribs [Horse 2]
- bucked me off again on starting to ride him again by doing screw bucks at high speed round the exercise track, with head between knees, fractured my pelvis and fractured 3 ribs [still Horse 2, more fool me]
- Guess who hasn’t got a Friesian on the place anymore!

Horse 3 was the most exquisite 12 year old TB, the most marvellous ride, but I was foolish and desperately wanting a TB, and I bought him from a yard known to not look after its horses. But he was vetted. However, in 9 months of excessive veterinary and farrier attention, we could not get his thrush/sheared heels/tendons better, the whole situation got worse and worse, and in the end the only humane thing to do was to put him to sleep. I rode him perhaps 6 times when he first came here, before I realised just how bad the problem was.

So – I have now ridden new horse 3 times, and boy am I stiff and sore afterwards, particularly my hip joints. I have been to the physio regularly since the above two accidents, and have exercises to do [when I remember!], but any more stretching ones would be most welcome as maybe I don’t have them.

I don’t have a problem with sitting to the canter, even though it makes my back ache – I know this because I had 2 lessons on a schoolmaster to get my confidence back before getting on my new horse – but I certainly do not want to do a sitting trot, it is extremely uncomfortable. That is MUCH worse than the canter! Not that I shall be doing that for some months on my new green horse, but the time will come, and I would like to get my lower body and hips more flexible before then. My e-mail address is ahc@mweb.co.za. Many thanks.
Alexa

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 12, 2000 - 9:05 pm:

Alexa,

All I can say is..... OUCH! I can't believe you still ride horses!!! I hope new horse is really kind (have you had a good conversation with him/her?)to you since your body probably isn't real thrilled to be back in the saddle again...

Sheila

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 20, 2002 - 10:41 am:

Hi all,
I'm looking for someone who had e-mailed be in reply to my post about riding exercises/stretches. I have have since lost my e-mail address and saved mail. I have the program ready to mail to you if you want to e-mail me again! Sorry for all the delay and hope you see this post!

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 20, 2002 - 11:09 am:

Hi Kim,
That was me. I will send you another e-mail.
Thanks,
Cheryl
Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC