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Discussion on Horses rolling in same spot?
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Member:
Quatro
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Posted on Monday, Nov 28, 2005 - 11:19 pm:
Hi all, does anyone else ever notice that their horses will all decide to roll at the same time, or is it just mine. It seems that if Cody paws the ground, lays down and rolls, gets up and shakes off a cloud of dust, before you know it the other 3 are either rolling in the same spot, or at least right after each other! Kind of like a yawn I guess. I just wondered if anyone else's horses did the same or are my boys just weird, and if so why do you suppose this behavior occurs? Just curious
suz
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 29, 2005 - 6:34 am:
Following a good ride in the mountains, rinse, and tie-dry I have 3 or 4 out of the 6 horses we usually take that wait in line for the same small dusty spot to roll in, the only dusty spot in the whole pasture. Which is why we leave them tied till they dry, otherwise it is a pasture full of mud bugs.
DrO
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 29, 2005 - 9:29 am:
Ours look for the one muddy spot in the field, or at least the bare spot. Failing that, they "settle" for the spot with the most fresh manure!
I think rolling is a grooming thing that all animals do. Even our cats roll in the dirt. I've seen chickens and birds fluff around in the dirt, too.
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Member:
Dtranch
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 29, 2005 - 10:00 am:
I have always been told that it is an instinct thing. The dirt and mud is a barrier to flys and insects, etc. The dirtier the horse, the happier the horse. Makes sense to me as all my horses roll in the muddiest or at least the dirtiest bare spot they can find. As Dr. O mentioned, after bath or grooming, they will head right to the dirt. We have a standing bet on our 20 yo quarterhorse gelding after riding on how many seconds it takes him to roll in the dirt after turned out. Quickest to date is 35 seconds.
DT
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Member:
Quatro
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 29, 2005 - 10:38 am:
We had our first real snow here in Iowa last night. I now have 4 happy "snow-ponies". The glee of children romping and rolling in the snow, even if they are fuzzy hooved beasts! 
suz
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Member:
Annes
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 29, 2005 - 10:45 am:
My horses do the same but my TB is the expert. He first goes in the pond to splash, and lays down in the mud several times. Then he goes to the rolling spot to get as much dry dirt on his muddy body as he can. At the racetrack he was referred to as the "pig in a horse suit" and I certainly know why!
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 29, 2005 - 12:06 pm:
Ann..
He'd make a good match for my mare aka "Miss Piggy"
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Member:
Dyduroc
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 29, 2005 - 12:13 pm:
Susan, interesting to watch them line up and wait their turn, isn't it? And I totally understand your description of 'snow-ponies'. It's a delight to watch them romping around and playing in the snow.
Dennis, can't believe you've actually timed your QH! Very funny!
Ann, is your TB part mud-bug? He must be a VERY happy horse!
D.
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 29, 2005 - 1:15 pm:
The "I'm going to roll the moment you turn me out after my bath" thing is the one reason I HATE owning a *sometimes* white horse.
Drives me absolutely nuts!
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Member:
Cpacer
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 30, 2005 - 9:26 am:
My horse tries to roll too close to the other horses after a ride. He wants to roll right where they are, right when they are--guess he wants to make sure he's not missing anything. I always have to pull him away to roll somewhere else, but then he loses interest.
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Member:
Dtranch
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 30, 2005 - 10:32 am:
My wife says you all should consider yourself lucky. Her mare wants to lay down and roll in the sandy areas ... with or without rider! Typical horse trainer, my horses are the ones not trained.
DT
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 30, 2005 - 12:14 pm:
I remember when, years ago, John Lyons used to teach the "DrOp your head" cue (a cue for keeping the horse relaxed) to the clinic horses . . . and the goal was to get your horse to keep his nose to the ground, on cue, for fifteen walking steps. Almost without fail, the horses would start going down into the sand of the arena, and John would advise, "If your horse goes down with you, just step off on the side his legs AREN'T."
I was on a three-year old mustang last Sunday, and took her on trail and to an outdoor sand arena in the equestrian park. She had gotten a little damp under the saddle, and that arena sand looked, oh, so good ;). . . and she went down and rolled . . . She gave warning by putting her nose down and one foot out to paw the sand.
I really don't think it is a lack of training, Dennis . . . I take it as a sign that the horse is totally relaxed with the rider (unless, of course, the horse is totally agitated with the rider and is going down to rid himself of the rider, and there would be some definite warning signs if the horse was unhappy). As prey animals, horses won't go down if they feel at all unsafe. Besides, I bet your horses will stay up if you catch them in time and ask.
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Member:
Dtranch
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 30, 2005 - 12:41 pm:
Yes Holly .... there is warning and when paying attention, she will not go down to roll. Definitely no agitation or intent to lose rider, she just loves to roll in the dirt. My wife says the problem is that on the trail, she is more interested in talking and enjoying the ride with others than paying attention to the horse. Imagine that ...
DT
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 30, 2005 - 1:19 pm:
LOL . . . . . . Good woman, Dennis. I'd like to ride with her sometime. Sounds like fun . . . LOL.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 30, 2005 - 5:29 pm:
At least your horses are going down in the sand! Years ago I had a horse that would try to roll whenever he was in the water. We'd be riding along (yes, talking!) come across a stream or be riding along the shore, and all of a sudden I'd notice my legs were feeling wet!
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 30, 2005 - 5:38 pm:
My last event horse liked to roll in the water. If the water was long he would start to slow down and reach down with his head. Talk about sitting up and riding to the next fence!
He almost got all the way down with me on a trail ride while I was trying a new saddle out (one that I decided I did not want to buy!). Never went down with me in the sand . . . only water . . . . deep water sometimes . . . . got it in his ears once.
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Member:
Qh4me
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 10:00 am:
My mare always rolls when out on a ride and unfortunately doesn't give much warning, makes it even harder, cause yes, I am usually talking!!
One day a friend of mine came riding with me. She was riding my old gelding, and we were gone for a long time. We came to a nice sandy field, and we started jogging and cantering. she yelled, are you sure they can handle this. I hope one of them doesn't take a heart attack! Within seconds of saying that, my mare went from a canter to a DrOp and roll. My poor friend thought she had died. I hopped off and let her roll and attempted to get back on after laughing my butt off at my friends reaction.
Funnier yet, there was a car driving past on the road, he stopped and yelled asking if everything was OK. I guess he thought she had died too!
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Member:
Dtranch
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 10:24 am:
Shawna ... sounds familiar
We were riding along a sandy trail ... I was on my wifes mare as she was still in training and my wife was riding my horse, along with other friends. Any way, my wife and I were right beside each other just riding along and having a conversation ... she looked at the rider on the other side then turned to me to say something, and I was gone. Her mare and I were laying back in the sand. My wife said it was like I just "disappeared". Needless to say, we all got a good laugh at that one.
DT
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Member:
Lilo
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 11:05 am:
Hi all,
My husband's Rocky Mountain Horse gelding cannot resist a sandy arena. Saddle or not - he wants to roll!. Tried it once during a clinic (I was on the ground at that time and got him back up with my Parelli stick, before he ruined the saddle).
Another time I was in the arena, my daughter riding the Rocky Mountain gelding, me on my mare. Without warning, he DrOpped down to roll. Now my daughter prefers to ride my mare!!!
I think if I ever want to work him in the arena, I will take the saddle off and let him have his roll. Then brush and saddle him and see if he can stay in a working mode.
Lilo
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Member:
Dsibley
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 12:10 pm:
I had a QH gelding who absolutely would not work unless he was free-lounged in the arena so he could roll. He would DrOp, roll to the right, stand & shake, DrOp, roll to the left, stand & shake, then run, buck & fart twice. That done, he would come back to me for the halter and would be a perfect angel. Any other routine and he would try to toss me. He is with a therapy program now (chronic lameness issue) and still does the same thing. Too funny!
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 1:31 pm:
Prior to purchasing my mare, I leased her for 3 months. The 1st time I rode after signing the lease, I tacked up and took her into the arena to warm up for a lesson. As I let down the stirrups, she calmly walked away, just fast enough to stay out of reach. Then, to my absolute horror, she went down & rolled with saddle on(not mine); reins and stirrup leathers flapping as she shook off the sand. Then, just to show me who was boss (we're still working THAT out!!), she trotted out of the arena, up a cement walkway, into the barn and out of sight. Now, I'm picturing in my mind first the worse case scenario (horse trips on loose reins, breaks leg) or a better scenario (I owe someone a new saddle as 1400 lbs just rolled over it twice.) By the time my shakey legs followed her, she was happily munching her hay in her stall and was pleased as punch with herself.
Fortunately, when my trainer - and owner of both horse & saddle- arrived to give me my lesson, neither horse nor saddle were worse for the wear. Only my heart & blood pressure experienced any damage!
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 1:57 pm:
LOL . . . how embarrassing, Fran . . . and you bought her anyway, huh?
When folks at John Lyon's clinics would panic about the horses going down and rolling on their saddles, John would say, "If your saddle won't stand up to a horse rolling on it, you shouldn't be riding in it."
Must have been a good saddle on your mare.
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Member:
Corinne
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 2:37 pm:
These postings are too much...I can't believe I never thought that a horse would roll with a rider on him. Forget about your friends reaction Shawna I think I would have a heart attack and might have to change my pants.
Reading someone's suggestion that they learned of in a John Lyon's clinic you are to step off the non leg side? What are you supposed to do? Do they gently go down or can they fall on you?
We went close to down once (for a different reason) at the bottom of a steep hill because his hind legs fell in a crevise that was covered with leaves on a guided trail ride....luckily we were walking. I thought it was over for us and wasn't sure if I should step off but it was so split second I didn't have chance to do anything before he climbed out with me still on him. He had a small bruise but was fine.
I have only ever seen my horse roll once..I don't think he likes to be dirty...he is a bit prissy.
Anyway, if anyone has any information on what you do if this occurs please let me know. I wouldn't want to get myself or him hurt.
Have a great day...and thankfully you are all okay! LOL.
Corinne
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 3:49 pm:
When horses get sweaty under saddle, and then step into sand or soft dirt, it is quite natural for them to want to roll . . . or as in the case of some horses, stepping into water will get them pawing and rolling.
If your horse starts to go down:
KICK FREE OF YOUR STIRRUPS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Keep one hand on the reins.
When he gets onto his belly, your feet will most likely land on the ground, and swing your leg over the horse so you are standing on the side his legs AREN'T . . .
Move to the front of the horse, keeping your reins off the ground . . .
When horses attempt to stand, they throw their feet out in front and lunge up onto their front feet, so watch yourself that you are far enough out in front and toward the side his legs AREN'T (which may have changed if the horse rolled all the way over) and wait for him to stand . . . and shake . . . and you will want to check under edges of the saddle pad for sand.
Usually, you can catch it before it happens . . . If you suspect it at all, keep one rein short with the horse's nose to the side and give him the "move" forward cue. I add a warning "ach, ach!" sound, too.
It's really not a big deal unless you can't get free of the stirrups. Don't panic.
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 3:55 pm:
Believe it or not, Hollywood, I did still buy the beast and don't regret a moment of it (well, most of the time, anyway... ). And, the saddle was a relatively inexpensive Wintec dressage saddle, so I guess that tells ya that you don't have to spend a small fortune for a good saddle!
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Member:
Dove2
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 5:03 pm:
I'm really surprised that so many folks will just step off and watch their horse (and saddle) roll. Can it not be dangerous, or at the very least, harmful to your saddle? Does it indicate disrespect? I always thought you should prevent your horse from rolling when he's tacked up. No?
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 1, 2005 - 5:50 pm:
Dove2 . . . it all depends on whether you are allowing it or not. If I tell my horse NOT to roll, then he'd better not roll . . . but I'd better have an effective strategy in mind before it happens . . . and I need to know the warning signs that most horses will give before going down. As I said earlier, it is a great sign of trust for a horse -- a prey animal -- to lay down among humans who are predators.
On the other hand, if a horse is laying down out of disrespect or out of rebellion, the rider will have had other warning signs beforehand, as well . . . The horse would have been resistant during grooming, leading, mounting and/or riding . . . and trying to unseat his rider by rolling on him would be no different from bucking or rearing or running away.
Believe me . . . we don't LOOK for it to happen unless, in training one might want it to happen as we did in the Lyons's clinic when we were looking for our horses to relax on cue by keeping their heads down for a certain period of time . . . We were expecting it to happen since most horses will step around with their noses to the ground before they lay down.
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 8:36 am:
Dove2, I think in a perfect world, most of us would prefer that our horses not go down and roll while tacked up. But, as the stories above illustrate, a moment's worth of distraction and the horse goes down. Once he's down, there's not much you can do. In my story above, the last thing I wanted to do to my mare as she was rolling was jump after her, startle her back up on her feet and increase the chance that she would get a leg caught in the stirrups or reins. For those out on the trail, I would imagine that the first thing they think of after getting off is to keep all gear out of the way of the rolling horse but keep a hand on the reins so that once the horse jumps back up, he can't trot off down the trail by himself.
So, the short answer is that we all need to be more diligent around our horses. Sounds easy, but it's really not. Speaking for myself, I know my mare so well now that my trust in her runs very deep and I've learned to recognize her "moods". So, it's easy for me to get too relaxed around her, more so than around other horses. I would guess that most, if not all of us on HA have developed this type of relationship with our horses and let down our guards probably more than we should.
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Member:
Shanson
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Posted on Friday, Dec 2, 2005 - 2:06 pm:
Me too, Dove2. If I get an inkling that a horse is even thinking about DrOpping, I pull its head up and kick him forward. A few years ago, I rode a horse I didn't know and discovered that he would DrOp with absolutely no warning whatsoever. Out of the blue, he DrOpped to his knees. I stepped off to the side (away from his feet) while holding on to the reins, made him get back up, and stepped back on as he rose. He never got a chance to roll and we were on our way again a jiffy. Dangerous habit, in my humble opinion. To each his own, though...
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Member:
Imogen
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 3, 2005 - 7:36 am:
Strangely we seem to have a different attitude to rolling with a rider on in Europe. WHACK them at the first sign... be especially wary when riding on beaches/dunes/paddling your horse in the sea.
I love letting my mare have a roll after a cross country competition like hunter trials (after I dismount and untack of course...). When the horse has cooled off and got their breath back number one priority is a serious roll! It's their reward even as you're thinking HOW am I going to get all that mud off!
All the best
Imogen
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Member:
Dove2
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 3, 2005 - 10:30 am:
Not to belabor the point, but........
HollyWood, You said, "If I tell my horse NOT to roll, then he'd better not roll . . . but I'd better have an effective strategy in mind before it happens . . . and I need to know the warning signs that most horses will give before going down." This may be confusing information to give to your horse. I understand what you're saying, but what message is your horse receiving? And who is in control? Horses do much better with consistency. Yes or no. Black and white. If you sometimes let him and sometimes not, the horse will take it upon himself to decide things. Ambiguity interferes with the confidence a horse wants to have knowing he's doing the right thing.
"if a horse is laying down out of disrespect or out of rebellion, the rider will have had other warning signs beforehand, as well"
Can you determine that there are times a roll is out of disrespect and times when they are not? When a horse decides (on its own) to take a roll instead of following your lead (i.e., carry you on his back and wait to take each and every instruction from you), then I would have to say that is quite disrespectful to the rider.
I must be of European influence, then, (except for the whack. Can you communicate any other way prior to a whack? ) because I believe the time to have a good roll is NOT when being ridden.
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Member:
Corinne
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 3, 2005 - 11:07 am:
Dove2,
I think Holly was answering a question of mine...What do you do if it happens?
I had never heard or seen of such a thing and wanted to be prepared if it did....so neither of us got injured.
What I got out of her post was that you should have control over the situation but if it goes array and they started to roll you had better know what to do.....sometimes horses have a mind of their own...no matter what you do to prevent that....lord knows that as a someone who has only been riding for two years...on a novice horse none the less...that my aides are not as strong enough as they should be at times...and he sometimes manipulates me.
I don't think she was encouraging the behavior...
She is a very knowledgable horse woman and was offering advice should I...and I hope I don't...ever run across the situation. Luckily we train in a sand and clay arena every day and have yet to run into that problem.
Have a great day!
Have a great day!
v/r
Corinne
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 3, 2005 - 11:20 am:
Dove2,
If I ALLOW my horse's nose to go down to soft ground (especially if my horse is sweaty under saddle) and see it put out a foot, then I am effectively telling the horse (whether I mean to tell him or not) it is okay to go down UNLESS I catch its head up quicklyand give it a strong "MOVE" cue. It is up to the rider to stay aware of everything his horse is thinking . . . so the rider can decide what he/she wants to allow from the horse. If I don't catch it in time, I have effectively allowed the horse to roll, in which case I have no right to get angry at the horse. If I even have a shade of anticipation that the horse is thinking of going down, I use a stern voice, lots of leg, an upward rein and urge my horse forward . . . after which I should reward him for moving forward.
An alert rider will tighten the reins and move the horse forward whenEVER he/she feels the horse is taking control of the situation, i.e., moving a part of its body without the rider giving the cue to move.
Sometimes, horses WON'T DrOp their noses first, and if we are standing in a soft place and not paying attention, the horse may just go down. We have all disciplined our horses AFTER they have done something "wrong," and if we show our displeasure within 3 seconds of the horse going down, then I expect the horse will think twice before going down with its rider the next time.
Yes . . . I believe we can tell if the roll is out of rebellion or out of relaxation . . . A rebellious horse will have been giving other resistant signs beforehand. It is up to us to listen to our horses the entire time we are in their presence. Otherwise, we are being inconsistent.
I am not advocating letting a horse roll with its rider. I AM saying that it can happen, . . . and if the rider is teaching relaxation training, it is the ultimate sign of comfort and relaxation for the horse to lay down in the presence of humans, and would be a sign that the horse has understood the training. If a horse DOES go down with the rider, and the rider hasn't effectively been paying attention and the horse isn't doing it out of nastiness, then it isn't a big deal . . . There is a way to keep both horse and rider safe.
Each of us has different expectations of our horses. There's nothing wrong with wanting our horses to stay on four legs when we are up on top ;) . . . You are right that we need to be consistent with our horses' training if we don't want them to be confused. Inconsistency is unfair to the horse. As long as we aren't rewarding resistant behaviour and disciplining allowed behaviour, we aren't confusing our horses.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 3, 2005 - 11:45 am:
Imogen, I don't think it's so much that over here we feel it's o.k. to roll while we are aboard, but it does happen from time to time. Whenever it's happened to me, I've "deserved it" as I've been paying no attention to my horse, but "lollygagging" down the trail, either off in dreamland, or talking away with a friend. By the time I've realized what is happening it's too late to pull the horse back up. They are amazingly smooth when they go down!
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Member:
Dove2
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 3, 2005 - 12:12 pm:
OK, I'm finally with the program. My misunderstanding, and I'm glad for the extra explanation. I certainly was not intending to offend anyone (and please forgive me if I did). I did, however, think it important to point out this is not something a rider would typically want to occur while riding. Thanks for taking the time, HollyWood, to explain it so well.
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 3, 2005 - 4:31 pm:
You are welcome, Dove2. There was no offense taken at all . . .
And, folks . . . you can just call me Holly . . . it's just that my last name really is Wood . . . The first time one of the HA members called me hollywood, I had to do a double take . . . LOL . . . Yes . . . my parents do have a sense of humor . . .
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Member:
Mwebster
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 3, 2005 - 7:27 pm:
Interesting thread... and I agree that the beach is a tempting place. I've taken my mare to the beach just 3 times. Once, after dismounting at the end of our ride to walk her through the dune in deep, warm dry sand (but with her tack still on), she started to DrOp. Fortunately, a good yank of the reins and she sprang back back up. This year, half way through a 2hr beach ride last month, my mare suddenly started to go down under me to roll in the wet sand by the sea! She's never tried rolling when I'm on her in 3 years of owning her, so I was quite surprised... I leapt free but yanked the rein to tell her no!! and she of course sprang back up before getting her roll.
She gets 24x7 turnout and plenty of time to play in the mud/snow/dirt/grass. There is no way I'm letting her develop this sort of habit!
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