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  Discussion on Kicking Stall Walls
Author Message
Member:
Dsibley

Posted on Tuesday, Dec 6, 2005 - 11:47 pm:

Oh, boy, am I in trouble. My three-year-old QH gelding is kicking holes thru the walls in his stall. And it is not HIS stall...I board him at a beautiful barn. He has geldings on either side of him, with 1/2 walls and grills. Mister is pretty near the bottom of the pecking order, and gets real anxious in the stall at times. He was a weaver when I bought him, but he only does it when he gets nervous...or feels claustrophobic. Not really a problem. They had plenty of turnout thru the summer, and only recently have been inside at night due to weather. He has been in the pasture with both of the neighboring geldings. HELP PLEASE. He's going to tear the place down. I have Quietex...should I put him on that 24/7 until my barn is ready? He's going to be in a lean-to with doors when my place is ready, but I can't have him tear this one apart on the way out.
Member:
Miamoo

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 7, 2005 - 7:35 am:

Can you find him a different spot with a run in while you are waiting for your barn? In my mind breaking up the stall is bad but the damage he can do to himself is worse. Even if you don't get immediate, obvious injury, he can be creating the beginnings of bone spurs or other things in his hocks with the repeated concussion.

Ella
Member:
Skye

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 7, 2005 - 8:06 am:

I don't know about stopping the behavior if the circumstances remain the same, but some people affix stall mats to the walls to minimize the problems for the stall and the horse, too.
Member:
Dsibley

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 7, 2005 - 8:45 am:

Yes, we're going to put up mats to help alleviate the stress on his legs. I know I sounded like I'm more worried about the barn than him. He's such a sweetie that I am just really shocked about this 'Dr. Jeckyll/Mr. Hyde behavior. And he goes at the horses on both sides of him. There are no run-in stalls...only thing we might be able to do is change one of the geldings with my mare. He seems to tolerate her better. I think I'll also start using a feed pan on the floor rather than the ones hanging on the wall so he doesn't think someone else is going to get his food. I have him fed quite a bit of hay so he has something to do most of the evening, and he kinda stretches the eating thing out, takes his time, so I think he's comfortable with the surroundings. This is driving me nuts.
Member:
Miamoo

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 7, 2005 - 8:55 am:

What would happen if you put up something so that he can't see the horses on the two sides of him? Plywood or something?

Ella :-)
Member:
Dsibley

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 7, 2005 - 9:29 am:

See why I love this site? Because some people can think 'outside the box'. Yes, that is a great idea...might not be too good for his claustrophobia, but I think I can use his Quietex and he'll be OK. He has a window so I think that helps. Good idea, and I will let you know how it all works out. We might be standing along the road with our little bandanas over our shoulders...
Member:
Dtranch

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 7, 2005 - 10:19 am:

Diane ... you said he was a "weaver" which would indicate that at one time he was stalled (probably 24/7) with little or no turnout. If that is the case, and he is no longer "weaving" he may be gradually getting over it. The mats are a good idea and may need to be just temporary as he continues to improve. Did the kicking just start out of the blue, or has it been an everyday event when he is stalled? In my experience, if he can come in to eat and be groomed, etc. and learn that he is not "trapped" in there forever, he will gradually get over the kicking. The important thing is to protect him in the mean time, and it sounds like you are doing that. Try to make his stall experience as pleasant as possible with grooming and loving etc.
If you have been stalling him for a while, and the kicking has just started, you may be looking at something else. In my experience, a horse who has been stalled excessively with no turn out or exercise needs to be reassured he is not "trapped" again. Feed and pamper him in the stall, take him out for a short walk, and pamper again when you put him back in the stall. Good Luck
DT
Member:
Dsibley

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 7, 2005 - 10:52 am:

You are 100% correct. He was stalled 24/7 as a youngster, and I was told he couldn't even be sent to a trainer as a young 3-y/o because he got so worked up in the stall. However, I saw a real good horse down deep, and didn't think the habit was as bad as all that. I have been taking it slow with him, and yes, the weaving has almost stopped. He just does it when he gets anxious...like when he's the last being fed, or if he thinks he's going to get a shot. I think that's a good idea, to go back to the basics. I will also try the wood on the sides. I know the one gelding is a cranky, 28-y/o retired guy who loves to stand and make ugly faces at others. He might be taking pleasure in stirring up trouble. Still doesn't help my problem.
Thanks.
Member:
Dtranch

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 7, 2005 - 11:48 am:

Diana ... I train a lot of horses that the owner brings out because of one bad behaviour problem or another. I always start at ground work basics regardless of how well schooled the horse is otherwise. More times than not, when I have finished these exercises to establish a bond and a trust with the horse, I find the original problem no longer exists. I highly recommend back to basics with this horse and I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
DT
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 7, 2005 - 11:53 am:

Hello Diane,
I just wanted to be sure, is he always kicking at adjacent horses or does the kicking behavior ever occur for unexplained reasons. Is he always focused on what he is kicking at or does sometime it appear unexplained. Certainly for what we understand at this time solid walls on the side of a corner stall, and rubber mats on the walls will help stop the damage to the walls and help protect your horse.
DrO
Member:
Dsibley

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 7, 2005 - 12:35 pm:

This is a new behavior. He has always been the 'underdog', even to the point of mouthing when he was introduced to the herd of 14 after appropriate over-the-fence time. During a recent trail ride, he very suddenly kicked another strange gelding. Stall time has been minimal since I bought him in May, as the weather was fine for them to be in outdoor pens most of the summer and fall. There is no indication that he has been kicking the stall other than the last week or so. This just started. And when I say 'kick', he broke thru one-inch tongue & groove. Do you think it's physical? (I know it's going to be if I don't get the pads up...I'm on my way!!)
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 7, 2005 - 12:54 pm:

Some people put a chain around the hock with a long enough length hanging down that it bangs the back of the horse's leg when he kicks. I've heard this works well, but I've never had a need to try it. Maybe someone else knows a little more about it.
Member:
Miamoo

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 7, 2005 - 1:28 pm:

If you do put up wood on the sides so he can't see the other horses then you might want to get a stall guard rigged up on the door. Then during the day when people are about you could leave his door open so he can stick his head out. This way he won't feel so trapped. I wouldn't leave the stall guard up at night when the door is closed for safety reasons. They clip on and off easily.

Ella :-)
Member:
Sarahb47

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 7, 2005 - 2:14 pm:

Sounds like his ulcers are kicking up, so he's kicking the walls. And I'll bet he's had ulcers most of his life, with that history.

I'd put him on either Gastroguard or an over-the-counter (less expensive) ulcer-medication program immediately. It's expensive to definitely diagnose ulcers, but since so many research studies have shown that large numbers of our domesticated horses (up to 95% of all racehorses, for instance) have ulcers, I'd put him on the meds right away -- it certainly won't hurt.

Dr O has a good article on gastric ulcers here, and it explains the OTC meds you can use, like generic ranitidine and others. It takes a bit of pill-crushing (buy at your local drugstore, crush, mix with applesauce to make it palatable) but is way less expensive than the gastroguard and other meds the vets can provide.

I've had really good results with treating rehabilitating racehorses and others, using ranitidine 2-3 x a day for a month. We also bought generic peppermint-flavored tums and gave those as treats before/during riding and work in hand. Generic mylanta or maalox also works nicely short-term (just before trailering, for example).

Sounds like your fellow is a poster boy for anxiety and ulcer symptoms. Install the padding, but get him on ulcer meds right away, also! Then take a look at other possible behavioral issues.

Sarah
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Dec 8, 2005 - 11:12 am:

Sarah could be right but I can't tell from your post. If the kicking is solely aimed at other horses it makes it less likely but if there are unexplained kicks especially around meal time it is more likely to be ulcer related. The article on ulcers will give you other tips on when to suspect and how to diagnose ulcers.
DrO
Member:
Dsibley

Posted on Friday, Dec 9, 2005 - 10:31 am:

OK...now I think we might be getting somewhere. I read the articles, and something hit home! Mr. Accident-prone cut his foot, and I had started him on Bute the day he started the kicking. That might have been enough to kick up an underlying ulcer. Bute has stopped, and so has the kicking (I hope). We still need to replace boards in the stall, and I'm going to put up rubber mats this weekend just to be on the safe side.
Thanks so much for your help. I think you all have helped me hit on the problem.
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