|
|
Discussion on Need help with cues
|
| Author |
Message |
Member:
Cpacer
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 21, 2005 - 1:10 pm:
My latest point of confusion is in regards to using leg cues and rein signals and which one would be considered an escalation. Now that my horse and I are finally communicating practically w/o bridle, John Lyon’s latest PF issue came out with an article about old vs. new ways of doing things. I read the article as stating it’s actually easier for the horse if you can communicate with lighter use of reins instead of points on the body, that horses may be happier to comply. I’m not really sure how to interpret this into our training. We have been using leg first, then if needed rein as a reminder. Should I switch this? Last night I couldn’t commit to one or the other and ended up using both at the same time.
Of course the article ended by saying if you’re happy with what you’re doing and it’s working then continue, but we’re in the early stages of our training and could switch if it will make for better communication down the road, and a happier horse! What are the thoughts out there?
|
Member:
Hwood
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 21, 2005 - 1:40 pm:
If you are familiar with JL's training, then you know that the point isn't WHICH cues you use WHERE, but how consistent you are with whatever cues you choose, and how consistent you are to give immediate release and/or praise when the horse gives you what you are asking.
Of course, the more cues we add to our training, the longer it will take for our horses to learn them . . . some horses learn faster than others, but we are increasing their "vocabulary" whenever we add another cue . . . and we just need to be certain we are making the cues as simple as possible and are asking consistently and being patient with our teaching. Horses become unhappy when they are insecure, and one of the ways to make our horses insecure is to be inconsistent or to rush their training. If our horses become proficient at understanding one cue, we may tend to rush through subsequent cues . . . because we are impatient. If we are training our horses for ourselves and look at horse ownership as a lifetime commitment, then there is no reason to rush. If we are training horses for sale or for other horse owners, then we can't spend a lifetime training, and will do better to train the owners how to train.
John said that he believed Zip was a tail-wringer because he had trained Zip without a bridle and had taught him too many cues (8 different heel and spur cues, I believe), but it is my understanding that John has stopped riding bridleless, and some of his other horses are tail-wringers, too.
If your horse is coming along well, and you are working together as a team, then go ahead and add leg cues to your repertoire. Just be sure to give the horse 100s and 1000s of chances to learn them . . . start with one step. To quote John (and maybe others, too) "The slower we go, the faster we get."
|
Member:
Cpacer
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 21, 2005 - 2:24 pm:
Holly, I was hoping you'd respond since I know you've mentioned JL before.
So you think it's okay to continue with focusing mostly on leg cues as the primary, then maybe down the road working on the light rein cues in addition? I guess I'm still confused in thinking about pre-cues, the cue, and the escalation (was thinking if leg or rein didn't work then you used the other as a back-up, but then which should be the back-up?).
I want him to be as soft as possible and want to use whatever is the lightest touch. He's done incredibly learning to maneuver from the leg--only takes him one time to get it (much smarter than me), but I guess I got confused on which I should focus on now.
btw -- he is a lifer, so no rushing here, just want to make sure I get it right (and my trainer’s on vacation so I can’t talk to her about it).
|
Member:
Hwood
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 21, 2005 - 3:10 pm:
What is it that you want your horse to be able to do that he isn't doing now?
How do you get your horse to bend his neck and flex at the poll? If you don't need to use reins, then don't add them. If you think that the reins will help teach your horse some of the things that you can't teach with seat and legs, then go ahead and just teach rein cues . . . without any leg, at first . . . and when he is doing whatever it is that you are trying to teach, then go ahead and add in the other cues, one at a time in combination with the new rein cue.
I teach rein cues first because I use a halter and lead, anyway, and the rein cues build on the cues to give his nose and neck on pressure from the lead. I understand the desire to make your horse as light as possible. Teaching a horse to lead off of our body language is so rewarding, and is my goal in teaching leading . . . Teaching a horse to give his nose and neck off of just a touch on the rein is another goal I have. When I recollect the most rewarding times of working with my horses, most all of them are the moments when we are communicating on the lightest cue.
I am sure you are doing just fine, cp. It sounds as if you are really trying to think from your horse's point of view, and that is primary in good training.
|
Member:
Cpacer
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 21, 2005 - 3:51 pm:
Thanks Holly, I have a tendency to over think stuff since this is my first baby. There's nothing he's not doing (except that darn right-lead), he bends his neck with the slightest bit of leg, and just learned to give at the poll by rein, backs by leg, stops w/seat, etc. My leg cues are nowhere near precise but he works with me.
Did you read the article I'm referring to? What do you think about teaching collection early on rather than having to re-teach later? We haven't started riding collected yet, in fact I hardly touch the reins except on the trail.
Also, your thoughts on body language is something I got to experience for the first time last week when I took my horse to a facility with a round pen. Our first time in and I really didn't think I'd like it in there, but we took-off all his tack and I was amazed at how he responded to my energy alone--walk, trot, canter with NO contact! Most amazing was how he came in to follow me upon turning my shoulder away. Sometimes I just get choked up at his progress!
|
Member:
Hwood
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 21, 2005 - 4:20 pm:
Sounds wonderful, cp. I get choked up thinking of the beauty of it.
No, I didn't read the article and have never subscribed to the magazine  although I've read bits and pieces over the years whenever a PH has come my way.
When the time comes for you to need something more from your horse that he isn't giving, you might, first, evaluate his health and attitude and then teach another cue, if necessary. If you and your horse are working well together now, it won't be any trouble for you to think of another simple cue to add . . . and then it is just practice, practice, practice until you get what you want.
Sounds like you are both having fun . . . and that is how it should be.
|
|
|
